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subject42
2009-10-26, 12:52 PM
Quick question 1: Is this legal?
Quick question 2: If it's legal, how can I make it more absurd?

My gaming group is running the Tomb of Horrors next weekend (8th level characters), and I've been tasked with making a character for my roommate.

The shenanigan level in this game is going to be pretty high, so I figured that I would make a straight Druid 8 and spend all of the character's wealth by level on wilding clasps, and as many Survival Pouches (from MiC) as possible.

Since one survival pouch will let you spawn up to 5 donkey's per day, and I should be able to afford 4 of them, it seems like it would be the ultimate trap finding / flanking / shenanigans tool.

Seriously, 20 donkeys per day is nothing to sneeze at.

Is this legal?

If it is legal, what other absurdity can I pull off with similar items?

t_catt11
2009-10-26, 12:55 PM
I won't rule on the legality, since I'm not your DM, but I applaud you for the sheer combination of absurdity and utility.

Fishy
2009-10-26, 01:04 PM
If you survive long enough to take Druid 9, the Summon Elemental feat does all this and more.

subject42
2009-10-26, 01:09 PM
If you survive long enough to take Druid 9, the Summon Elemental feat does all this and more.

It's ToH, so that's probably unlikely.

Gan The Grey
2009-10-26, 01:09 PM
Of course, this will most likely ruin the fun and atmosphere of the dungeon...

BRC
2009-10-26, 01:11 PM
If I were the DM, you would do this, only to get attacked by Eyore, God of Donkey's, who disapproves of you using his children this way.

subject42
2009-10-26, 01:13 PM
Of course, this will most likely ruin the fun and atmosphere of the dungeon...

We're about two steps off of it turning into a drinking game, so that isn't too much of a concern.

Starbuck_II
2009-10-26, 01:31 PM
Quick question 1: Is this legal?
Quick question 2: If it's legal, how can I make it more absurd?

My gaming group is running the Tomb of Horrors next weekend (8th level characters), and I've been tasked with making a character for my roommate.

The shenanigan level in this game is going to be pretty high, so I figured that I would make a straight Druid 8 and spend all of the character's wealth by level on wilding clasps, and as many Survival Pouches (from MiC) as possible.

Since one survival pouch will let you spawn up to 5 donkey's per day, and I should be able to afford 4 of them, it seems like it would be the ultimate trap finding / flanking / shenanigans tool.

Seriously, 20 donkeys per day is nothing to sneeze at.

Is this legal?

If it is legal, what other absurdity can I pull off with similar items?

This only helps with floor traps. The "pull the lever" traps and "stick head in ones" won't be helped.

But I like the idea.

Tiktakkat
2009-10-26, 01:33 PM
Of course, this will most likely ruin the fun and atmosphere of the dungeon...

According to the stories, that is how Robilar survived the Tomb of Horrors.
Well, near enough. He used his captured and enlisted orcs to detect various traps.
I am not sure a donkey swarm will serve as well because of various limitations, but when dealing with an overt grudge dungeon like the Tomb of Horrors, there is very little that is against the spirit of the place.

chiasaur11
2009-10-26, 01:35 PM
According to the stories, that is how Robilar survived the Tomb of Horrors.
Well, near enough. He used his captured and enlisted orcs to detect various traps.
I am not sure a donkey swarm will serve as well because of various limitations, but when dealing with an overt grudge dungeon like the Tomb of Horrors, there is very little that is against the spirit of the place.

And nothing that will ruin the "fun".

Can't ruin what ain't there.

AstralFire
2009-10-26, 01:36 PM
Assume it is the same donkey being spawned five times a day. (Temporal shenanigans if you can have multiple out at once.)

Name him eeyore.

Bayar
2009-10-26, 01:36 PM
If you stick blast disks in the donkey's saddlebags, you can really bomb the dungeon with donkeys.

subject42
2009-10-26, 01:40 PM
Assume it is the same donkey being spawned five times a day. (Temporal shenanigans if you can have multiple out at once.)

Name him eeyore.

I was thinking about making the donkey look more ragged and grotesque every time the character pulled it out and naming it "Donkenstein".

KitsuneKionchi
2009-10-26, 02:00 PM
Not as good as the chicken railgun.

Hire 50,000 hirelings.

Have them stand shoulder to shoulder in a line towards your target.

Have them pass a chicken from one person to another. This is a free action. Assuming the 50,000 hirelings are roughly 2 feet in width (including minor distance between them), the chicken will move 100,000 feet in 6 seconds, or around 11,000 miles per hour. The chicken flies into the dungeon and blasts a hole in it.

Commoners are the best for this, since they get the chicken infested flaw that gives them unlimited free chickens half the time they pull out any item or gear...

AstralFire
2009-10-26, 02:04 PM
No, no, I think the Donkey's better. There's just something visceral about its suffering.

Heliomance
2009-10-26, 02:08 PM
Not as good as the chicken railgun.

Hire 50,000 hirelings.

Have them stand shoulder to shoulder in a line towards your target.

Have them pass a chicken from one person to another. This is a free action. Assuming the 50,000 hirelings are roughly 2 feet in width (including minor distance between them), the chicken will move 100,000 feet in 6 seconds, or around 11,000 miles per hour. The chicken flies into the dungeon and blasts a hole in it.

Commoners are the best for this, since they get the chicken infested flaw that gives them unlimited free chickens half the time they pull out any item or gear...

DOESN'T WORK.

Seriously, there is no such thing as momentum in D&D. The chicken flies 10 feet at the end, and either does 1d4+STR bonus damage at a -4 attack penalty for being an improvised weapon, or does no damage because it's too soft. The commoner railgun does not work.

AstralFire
2009-10-26, 02:09 PM
Astral's Law of Tabletop Physics: Physics are only invoked when it makes the joke funny. They don't exist otherwise.

Akal Saris
2009-10-26, 02:10 PM
I don't think it will be an issue, and really it will only be effective in the first 4-6 encounters.

I've read of another group (I think treantmonk's or JaronK's?) who didn't have a rogue or other trap-finder, so they cut down a tree and used the giant "rogue log" to probe everything ahead of them.

Indon
2009-10-26, 02:11 PM
You can work in conjunction with the party Wizard to make your donkeys into actual bombs, courtesy of Explosive Runes.

Edit: Also, never underestimate the ten-foot-pole.

Heliomance
2009-10-26, 02:12 PM
Astral's Law of Tabletop Physics: Physics are only invoked when it makes the joke funny. They don't exist otherwise.

Heliomance's Law of Tabletop Consistency: Funny builds are still builds, and as such must follow the rules of D&D. Momentum and damage through calculation of kinetic energy are not part of the rules of D&D.

sofawall
2009-10-26, 02:21 PM
Heliomance's Law of Tabletop Consistency: Funny builds are still builds, and as such must follow the rules of D&D. Momentum and damage through calculation of kinetic energy are not part of the rules of D&D.

If you're going to use RAW to show D&D is ridiculous, don't suddenly stop using RAW at the end. Keep RAW the whole time, or you've shown basically nothing.

AstralFire
2009-10-26, 02:23 PM
My law is simply describing things as they are. You are prescribing as they should be. :smallbiggrin:

I generally try to follow using the system's rules only rather than relying on physics:
D&D: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=121031
SW Saga: http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120391


If you're going to use RAW to show D&D is ridiculous, don't suddenly stop using RAW at the end. Keep RAW the whole time, or you've shown basically nothing.

I don't think this is an attempt to show that D&D is ridiculous, just 'hey this is funny'.

Myou
2009-10-26, 02:23 PM
According to the stories, that is how Robilar survived the Tomb of Horrors.
Well, near enough. He used his captured and enlisted orcs to detect various traps.
I am not sure a donkey swarm will serve as well because of various limitations, but when dealing with an overt grudge dungeon like the Tomb of Horrors, there is very little that is against the spirit of the place.

So how did he beat Acererak?

KitsuneKionchi
2009-10-26, 02:24 PM
Heliomance's Law of Tabletop Consistency: Funny builds are still builds, and as such must follow the rules of D&D. Momentum and damage through calculation of kinetic energy are not part of the rules of D&D.

Kionchi's rule of theoretical build jokes: Even if they don't work in game, a joke is a joke is a joke.

Honestly, the railgun also has to consider the fact that commoners are, with their average strength, passing a chicken at that speeds just because the PHB says "passing an object...shoulder width...is a free action".

You want it to be pure DnD by the raw? Get a chicken infested commoner with quick draw to continously draw and drop grains of sand while another one pours it into his or her pocket. Half those grains become chickens which you fling into the dungeon via a teleportation circle or just a well placed hole in the ground. Eventually the dungeon will fill up with chickens. Wait for the chickens to starve and get an army of necromancers who can cast Chain Animate Dead and have the feat from the same dragon magazine as the flesh sculptor that allows undead to explode when they die.

Note: if the chain animated dead doesn't work, there's always the resident evil like disease spell from the Black Scrolls of Fu Leng in Magic of Rokugan. Of course, that's not WotC...I'm just more familiar with OA stuff I think...

Stand back. Magic missile one chicken. The whole temple explodes via a chain reaction of undead exploding chickens.

Really the best way to nuke a dungeon is with Transmute Rock to Lava. it create a pillar of the stuff from the center of the earth, likely filling any subterranean cavern below. Earthquake works well too. But these are 9th level spells.

Another alternative is excavation. Get some explosive spells like explosive runes, or, if your setting uses it, some black powder. Get some picks and some hirelings (preferably dwarf I suppose) and just mine out the whole dungeon. Avoid corridors, etc... until the very end and cause the whole structure to collapse upon itself. Then the hunt for treasure becomes more of a dig. Well, not a modern archaelogical dig but a "any magical treasure won't break from a single swing of my pickaxe anyways so lets just dig as fast as we can" kind of thing.

Transmute rock to flesh helps in the excavation, but it might squick out your hirelings to dig through random body parts.

Or just summon a creature that can burrow.

Radiun
2009-10-26, 02:32 PM
Am I the only one who sees a problem with a druid sending animals off to die, repeatedly?
(Flavour-wise only, it's very practical)

AstralFire
2009-10-26, 02:34 PM
The donkey is an abomination caused by humanity mingling two animals which seemed alike to them, yet are not. Death is the best possible mercy to them.

KitsuneKionchi
2009-10-26, 02:34 PM
Maybe it was to offset overpopulation? Or maybe the druid itself is an awakened animal of that race who believes their own race is too 'distanced from nature' in the same way a human druid can believe its ok to sacrifice/kill a human to save something natural.

Or its under mind control. Magic solves everything.

EDIT: Perfect response, astralfire!

Radiun
2009-10-26, 02:36 PM
The donkey is an abomination caused by humanity mingling two animals which seemed alike to them, yet are not. Death is the best possible mercy to them.

Nice try, but donkeys still have the animal type :-P

Haven
2009-10-26, 02:39 PM
Nice try, but donkeys still have the animal type :-P

I'm pretty sure the druid wouldn't necessarily know that, unless they are in fact playing Order of the Stick Tomb of Horrors--

hot damn, that would be amazing.

KitsuneKionchi
2009-10-26, 02:42 PM
I'm pretty sure the druid wouldn't necessarily know that, unless they are in fact playing Order of the Stick Tomb of Horrors--

hot damn, that would be amazing.

If you don't know the ToH, spoiler about a trap...


Who would bet that Elan would stumble into that trap that sends all your clothes and gear to the end of the dungeon...

Radiun
2009-10-26, 02:44 PM
I'm pretty sure the druid wouldn't necessarily know that, unless they are in fact playing Order of the Stick Tomb of Horrors--

hot damn, that would be amazing.

The Knowledge (Nature) check to discover that a Donkey is an animal would be... no more than 12 by my guess.

subject42
2009-10-26, 02:58 PM
Am I the only one who sees a problem with a druid sending animals off to die, repeatedly?
(Flavour-wise only, it's very practical)

(S)he's part of a cult dedicated to Darwinian natural selection. Any surviving mule will be later used as the basis for a new race of super donkeys.

Radiun
2009-10-26, 03:01 PM
(S)he's part of a cult dedicated to Darwinian natural selection. Any surviving mule will be later used as the basis for a new race of super donkeys.

Fair enough.
You breed a titanic donkey to crush the Tomb of Horrors under it's mighty hooves

subject42
2009-10-26, 03:12 PM
Fair enough.
You breed a titanic donkey to crush the Tomb of Horrors under it's mighty hooves


CRAP. I just remembered that mules are sterile.

Oh well. Druids can fix that, right?

KitsuneKionchi
2009-10-26, 03:14 PM
CRAP. I just remembered that mules are sterile.

Oh well. Druids can fix that, right?

Fixing animals only makes it harder for them to reproduce.

technophile
2009-10-26, 03:21 PM
The donkey is an abomination caused by humanity mingling two animals which seemed alike to them, yet are not. Death is the best possible mercy to them.
No, that's the mule (which is a horse crossbred with a donkey). Donkeys are a valid natural species.

AstralFire
2009-10-26, 03:22 PM
No, that's the mule (which is a horse crossbred with a donkey). Donkeys are a valid natural species.

That's just the propaganda spread by embarassed wizards.

Radiun
2009-10-26, 03:27 PM
If Owlbears have taught us anything, it's that, with the help of magic, all manner of odd crossbreeding is possible.

Tiktakkat
2009-10-26, 06:37 PM
So how did he beat Acererak?

He didn't.
He did what Robilar apparently typically did in such situations:
He grabbed as much loose loot as he could shovel into his bag of holding and fled at top speed.
Of course, depending on how rate such things, that does constitute "beating" Acererak, as he got the loot and survived.

Thurbane
2009-10-26, 09:38 PM
Not as good as the chicken railgun.

Hire 50,000 hirelings.

Have them stand shoulder to shoulder in a line towards your target.

Have them pass a chicken from one person to another. This is a free action. Assuming the 50,000 hirelings are roughly 2 feet in width (including minor distance between them), the chicken will move 100,000 feet in 6 seconds, or around 11,000 miles per hour. The chicken flies into the dungeon and blasts a hole in it.

Commoners are the best for this, since they get the chicken infested flaw that gives them unlimited free chickens half the time they pull out any item or gear...
Assuming this was remotely possible, the chicken would be shredded by inertial forces and wind resistance long before it reached the above velocities.

He didn't.
He did what Robilar apparently typically did in such situations:
He grabbed as much loose loot as he could shovel into his bag of holding and fled at top speed.
Of course, depending on how rate such things, that does constitute "beating" Acererak, as he got the loot and survived.
If this was in the original 1E version (I assume it would be), Gary would have had the lulz when most of the loot turned into scrap metal and glass. :smallbiggrin:

Shhalahr Windrider
2009-10-26, 11:07 PM
Am I the only one who sees a problem with a druid sending animals off to die, repeatedly?
(Flavour-wise only, it's very practical)
Don't have MIC, so not familiar with the item in question, but if it produces a summoning effect, then the donkey doesn't fully die. Summoned creatures reappear where they came from after a 24-hour delay when they die. One of the things that lets druid fire off summon nature's ally all day without regard for the creatures summoned.

And if you really want to go the extra step, you could houserule that summoned creatures are also immune to natural pain. (Just the sensation, of course. They still lose hp, take penalties from pain-related special abilities, and what have you.) Really lets the druid off the hook there.

In any case, it's Tomb of Horrors. Ya gotta give the PCs a few gimmes. :smallwink:

Darrin
2009-10-26, 11:12 PM
First, donkeys and mules are two different animals, although they have the same price on the equipment list. The donkey is a medium-sized animal with 2HD and the mule is a large-sized animal with 3HD. It may not sound like much of a difference, but the size issue will be important when you're trying to squeeze them down 10' corridors. According to the MIC, the Survival Pouch produces mules, not donkeys.

You can probably get a lot more creatures by buying several wands of mount (750 GP each). Four of those would give you 200 light horses or ponies to work with, and they'll last up to 2 hours. Not quite as long as the Survival Pouch (8 hours), but the wand gives you a choice between a medium and large-sized creature, which may be useful if you're trying to block off a passage/enemy/etc. and a 10'x10' mule won't quite fit. The biggest disadvantage is possibly that the DM will know exactly what you're trying to do once he sees your character sheet, and he may decide to nail you with the ban-hammer. With the survival pouches, you can give him a dog-and-pony show about how useful it is or how this item has saved your character umpteen times so that's why he carries so many, and you've got a good chance to slip it by the DM before the first wave of mules hit.

Add a Collar of Perpetual Attendance (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fools/20030401c) for Unseen Servant at will. This will help take care of anything a donkey/mule/horse/pony can't do, such as pull levers, press buttons, open chests, etc. Or if you want to stick with the Druid, wand of wood wose would work much the same way for only 750 GP.

While all those options make admirable trapfinders, it's difficult to send them into unknown territory and get them to report back. But we can fix that with a Figurine of Wondrous Power: Serpentine Owl (DMG, 9100 GP) or Blue Quartz Eagle (Races of Faerun p. 173, 5400 GP).

The Serpentine Owl only works 1/day, but lasts up to 8 hours, Listen +14/Spot +6, and telepathically sends everything it sees or hears back to its owner.

The Blue Quartz Eagle looks very similar to the owl at first glance, but there are several important differences. First, it's about half the cost, and it only sends visual information if the owner spends a standard action to concentrate on it. However, it can be controlled telepathically for up to 1 mile, and has an amazing +19 Spot check. Unlike the owl, it can be used for up to 24 hours per tenday, but the duration need not be continuous so you can convert it back to statuette form whenever you like.

And if you want to see the DM excrete bricks of kittens from his posterior, pick up a Sardonyx Stone Flyer figurine (FR Underdark p. 74, 16500 GP) and show him what Earthglide can do to his uberkiller dungeon.

subject42
2009-10-27, 07:27 AM
Don't have MIC, so not familiar with the item in question, but if it produces a summoning effect, then the donkey doesn't fully die. Summoned creatures reappear where they came from after a 24-hour delay when they die.

RETURN NOW TO THE ELEMENTENTAL PLANE OF DONKEY.

GallóglachMaxim
2009-10-27, 07:44 AM
(S)he's part of a cult dedicated to Darwinian natural selection. Any surviving mule will be later used as the basis for a new race of super donkeys.

It's not natural selection if they get removed from the gene pool by Tomb of Horrors, and being lucky enough not to be annihilated isn't a trait that can be selected for.

What's that? Biology doesn't exist unless the joke requires it either? Fine.

subject42
2009-10-27, 07:46 AM
being lucky enough not to be annihilated isn't a trait that can be selected for.

Bummer, there goes half of the plot of the Ringworld novels.

Shhalahr Windrider
2009-10-27, 09:13 AM
RETURN NOW TO THE ELEMENTENTAL PLANE OF DONKEY.
Next campaign setting I develop is gonna have that, now. :smallbiggrin:

Another_Poet
2009-10-27, 09:21 AM
The donkeys will work fine as abit & trap springers, but they won't be good for giving flanking.

Donkeys don't come battle-trained, which means they don't threaten. To threaten you'll need to use the Attack command, and since the donkey doesn't know it you have to "push" the donkey to carry out the command. As a druid you'll ba able to make the push DC (20 I think? 25?) BUT the problem is that pushing an animal is a full-round action.

Additionally, if the enemy in question is anything weird (construct, undead, aberration etc) the donkey still won't threaten because they need to have been taught the Attack command twice to even consider attacking such a thing.

That's the only real rules problem you should run into. Possible solutions: make a donkey your animal companion (bonus tricks, push as a move action); convince the DM to let you train the donkeys before entering the dungeon (takes weeks per animal); or just don't expect to get any flanking out of them.

Mongoose87
2009-10-27, 09:29 AM
The donkeys will work fine as abit & trap springers, but they won't be good for giving flanking.

Donkeys don't come battle-trained, which means they don't threaten. To threaten you'll need to use the Attack command, and since the donkey doesn't know it you have to "push" the donkey to carry out the command. As a druid you'll ba able to make the push DC (20 I think? 25?) BUT the problem is that pushing an animal is a full-round action.

Additionally, if the enemy in question is anything weird (construct, undead, aberration etc) the donkey still won't threaten because they need to have been taught the Attack command twice to even consider attacking such a thing.

That's the only real rules problem you should run into. Possible solutions: make a donkey your animal companion (bonus tricks, push as a move action); convince the DM to let you train the donkeys before entering the dungeon (takes weeks per animal); or just don't expect to get any flanking out of them.
So, what you're saying is that they need to be War Donkeys?

subject42
2009-10-27, 10:00 AM
That's the only real rules problem you should run into. Possible solutions: make a donkey your animal companion (bonus tricks, push as a move action); convince the DM to let you train the donkeys before entering the dungeon (takes weeks per animal); or just don't expect to get any flanking out of them.

I guess flanking is out, then. If someone doesn't threaten, can I use them to block a charge? A five-deep donkeywall could come in handy.

Tyndmyr
2009-10-27, 10:17 AM
Quick question 1: Is this legal?
Quick question 2: If it's legal, how can I make it more absurd?

My gaming group is running the Tomb of Horrors next weekend (8th level characters), and I've been tasked with making a character for my roommate.

The shenanigan level in this game is going to be pretty high, so I figured that I would make a straight Druid 8 and spend all of the character's wealth by level on wilding clasps, and as many Survival Pouches (from MiC) as possible.

Since one survival pouch will let you spawn up to 5 donkey's per day, and I should be able to afford 4 of them, it seems like it would be the ultimate trap finding / flanking / shenanigans tool.

Seriously, 20 donkeys per day is nothing to sneeze at.

Is this legal?

If it is legal, what other absurdity can I pull off with similar items?

I have personally done this, and donkeys are amazingly useful for purposes such as:

Finding out how deep that hole really is.
Finding out if that trap automatically resets.
Blocking a hallway with their bodies.
Lunch.

Another_Poet
2009-10-27, 11:37 AM
I guess flanking is out, then. If someone doesn't threaten, can I use them to block a charge? A five-deep donkeywall could come in handy.

They count as an obstacle, so their own square will block a charge.

They do not get AoOs on someone charging through an adjacent square however.

And Mongoose: yep, a battle donkey would be far superior. I once had a trained battle mule that served as a mount for two consecutive characters (it outlived both of them, killed several rounds after the second character was killed in a suicide stand against ghasts).

Her name was Jacquelyne and I will forever be in awe of her valour and noble sacrifice :)

Somewhere
2009-10-27, 12:32 PM
Assuming this was remotely possible, the chicken would be shredded by inertial forces and wind resistance long before it reached the above velocities.

...say, would Iron Heart Surge apply for this situation? :smallwink:

Cieyrin
2009-10-27, 12:56 PM
I'm pretty sure the druid wouldn't necessarily know that, unless they are in fact playing Order of the Stick Tomb of Horrors--

hot damn, that would be amazing.

Tomb of Horrors was done by Nodwick already. The strip in question was called Little Tomb of Horrors. I've given up trying to find it, as Mr. Aaron Williams' comic archive is hard as hell to navigate to find something specific. :smallsigh:

icefractal
2009-10-27, 01:03 PM
Donkeys are ok, but you're a Druid - send in the Thoqqua! Passageway looks too trapped? Make your own! Room looks funny? Turn it into a pool of mud and lava! Then send the donkeys in over the steaming remains.

Shhalahr Windrider
2009-10-27, 03:21 PM
Room looks funny? Turn it into a pool of mud and lava!
And melt all the loot?! :smalleek:

Tyndmyr
2009-10-27, 03:22 PM
...say, would Iron Heart Surge apply for this situation? :smallwink:

Yes! End the condition of physics!

Why settle for extinguishing the sun when you can doom the universe?

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-10-27, 03:43 PM
And melt all the loot?! :smalleek:This is the Tomb of Horrors. There is no loot. The gems are cursed, the gold is trapped, and the adamantine door turns into lead if you take it out of the dungeon. BURN IT ALL!

Volkov
2009-10-27, 03:58 PM
If Your dungeon master is a particular jerk and uses the actual level 26 Wizard Level something Cleric Demilich Acererak. All the donkeys on Oerth won't help you. If he uses the skull construct dummy, then they would probably still be useless.

Thatguyoverther
2009-10-27, 04:12 PM
I vote using hirelings. That way you get all the bonuses of using donkeys except these guys are able to scream obscenities as they die.

Cieyrin
2009-10-27, 04:12 PM
If Your dungeon master is a particular jerk and uses the actual level 26 Wizard Demilich Acererak. All the donkeys on Oerth won't help you. If he uses the skull construct dummy, then they would probably still be useless.

SPOILER ALERT! SPOILER ALERT! :smallfurious:

Volkov
2009-10-27, 04:14 PM
SPOILER ALERT! SPOILER ALERT! :smallfurious:

I am going to take a wild guess and say you figured out how impossible it is to beat the actual acererak the hard way in 3.5e?

Cieyrin
2009-10-27, 04:15 PM
I am going to take a wild guess and say you figured out how impossible it is to beat the actual acererak the hard way in 3.5e?

It wasn't any easier in original 1E, as I recall.:smalltongue:

Volkov
2009-10-27, 04:21 PM
It wasn't any easier in original 1E, as I recall.:smalltongue:

Ah the Soul sucking skull of doom. How I loathed you.

Starbuck_II
2009-10-27, 05:34 PM
If Your dungeon master is a particular jerk and uses the actual level 26 Wizard Level something Cleric Demilich Acererak. All the donkeys on Oerth won't help you. If he uses the skull construct dummy, then they would probably still be useless.

What if you are binder with Acerak bound to him as a vestige. Since Acerak feels what happens to the binder: would he not harm him?

Cieyrin
2009-10-27, 05:41 PM
What if you are binder with Acerak bound to him as a vestige. Since Acerak feels what happens to the binder: would he not harm him?

That is totally a temporal paradox, right there. Acererak became a vestige after the tomb was looted, so the only way to play with the Tomb is assuming the history that led Acererak to become a vestige hadn't occured yet.

Darrin
2009-10-27, 05:51 PM
Donkeys don't come battle-trained, which means they don't threaten.


Could you cite the rule for this? I can't recall ever seeing anything that said domesticated animals don't threaten. Yes, they come untrained, but as far as I know, all creatures will defend themselves (including AoOs) when attacked in combat.

chiasaur11
2009-10-27, 05:53 PM
If you don't know the ToH, spoiler about a trap...


Who would bet that Elan would stumble into that trap that sends all your clothes and gear to the end of the dungeon...



Weren't there several traps of that type? Some with other side effects...

ericgrau
2009-10-27, 06:31 PM
This only helps with floor traps. The "pull the lever" traps and "stick head in ones" won't be helped.

But I like the idea.

Awakened donkeys.

You know this is a D&D thread when the only problem with a druid sending dozens of donkeys to horrible deaths is that the donkeys aren't sentient.

Radiun
2009-10-27, 06:42 PM
Awakened donkeys.

You know this is a D&D thread when the only problem with a druid sending dozens of donkeys to horrible deaths is that the donkeys aren't sentient.

I raised the morality issue, and as this Druid will shower wealth and fame upon the survivors, it evens out... a tad... plus Titanic Donkeys!

Stormthorn
2009-10-27, 06:57 PM
Add a Collar of Perpetual Attendance for Unseen Servant at will. This will help take care of anything a donkey/mule/horse/pony can't do, such as pull levers, press buttons, open chests, etc. Or if you want to stick with the Druid, wand of wood wose would work much the same way for only 750 GP.

My characters now all need to start wearing cat collars.

DragonLogic
2009-10-27, 07:24 PM
The donkey is an abomination caused by humanity mingling two animals which seemed alike to them, yet are not. Death is the best possible mercy to them.

Your thinking mules. Donkey's are only born from other donkeys while mules are born from a donkey and a horse.

AstralFire
2009-10-27, 07:33 PM
Your thinking mules. Donkey's are only born from other donkeys while mules are born from a donkey and a horse.


That's just the propaganda spread by embarassed wizards.

'tis unfortunate to see another fall for this wicked untruth.

Deastorm
2009-10-27, 07:50 PM
This is, without doubt, the best thread on these forums, ever. I nominate all contributors for... um... OotSys? Like Emmys, but... you know what, never mind. Thanks for the laughs, funny peoples.

Roderick_BR
2009-10-27, 08:04 PM
If I were the DM, you would do this, only to get attacked by Eyore, God of Donkey's, who disapproves of you using his children this way.
Or have the spirits of nature temporarily remove your powers in disaproval for using nature's kids that way :smalltongue:

Starbuck_II
2009-10-27, 08:11 PM
Or have the spirits of nature temporarily remove your powers in disaproval for using nature's kids that way :smalltongue:

But Mules are not natural...

Radiun
2009-10-27, 08:43 PM
But Mules are not natural...

That's like saying Ligers aren't natural.
Or Dire Dolphins >.>

The Big Dice
2009-10-27, 08:56 PM
You know this is a D&D thread when the only problem with a druid sending dozens of donkeys to horrible deaths is that the donkeys aren't sentient.
Pet Peeve #456367487: Sentient means that an organism has senses that are capable of interpreting it's surroundings. Which is pretty much everything that has more than one cell in it's body.

The word you want is sapient. That's the word to describe an organism which is capable of abstract thought. Otherwise we'd be homo sentiens rather than homo sapiens.

Volkov
2009-10-28, 05:58 AM
That's like saying Ligers aren't natural.
Or Dire Dolphins >.>

Or Max Hit Dice Dire Tyrannosaurus Rexes.