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View Full Version : What's the largest weapon you can wield at level 8? [3.5]



Grey Paladin
2009-10-26, 04:00 PM
... and still remain somewhat viable? it'll never be optimized but then my party mostly isn't.

AstralFire
2009-10-26, 04:05 PM
A large greatsword, by being a half-giant or goliath.

Grey Paladin
2009-10-26, 04:09 PM
I know Monkeygrip (its bad, but it serves the build's purpose) can push that higher, but aren't there any more stuff I can stack on top of it?

kjones
2009-10-26, 04:09 PM
What about a goliath psychic warrior? At 8th level, they could manifest Expansion and grow two size categories - that's Gargantuan, natch?

EDIT: Oh yeah, and Monkey Grip. So... Colossal, then?

Myou
2009-10-26, 04:10 PM
Can you get the relevant Hulking Hurler abilities by then?

AstralFire
2009-10-26, 04:10 PM
Monkey Grip doesn't stack with Powerful Build. And no, I'm pretty sure two-handed + powerful build is as big as you can get without getting an exotic or monstrous build if you wish to remain useful.

tyckspoon
2009-10-26, 04:12 PM
Huge is probably the limit; get Enlarged or Expanded for one real size increase and then use a Powerful Build effect (racial trait, Jotunbrud feat, or Strongarm Bracers) for one more category. Getting larger than that requires progressively weirder rules contortions. The easiest way to do it is probably with a Half-Giant or Goliath Psychic Warrior.

Edit: You can also wield a Fullblade if you don't mind burning a feat on proficiency; it's essentially an up-sized greatsword already.

Grumman
2009-10-26, 04:22 PM
Huge is probably the limit; get Enlarged or Expanded for one real size increase and then use a Powerful Build effect (racial trait, Jotunbrud feat, or Strongarm Bracers) for one more category. Getting larger than that requires progressively weirder rules contortions. The easiest way to do it is probably with a Half-Giant or Goliath Psychic Warrior.
Expansion allows two size categories if you put in some more power points.

sofawall
2009-10-26, 04:23 PM
Well, a Gold/heavy weapon weapon does damage as one size category higher.

EDIT: Please don't tell me you're making Cloud...

Prak
2009-10-26, 04:26 PM
Monkey Grip doesn't stack with Powerful Build. And no, I'm pretty sure two-handed + powerful build is as big as you can get without getting an exotic or monstrous build if you wish to remain useful.

since when? I've never seen anything explicitly state that, and the wording, iirc, seems to work...

Grey Paladin
2009-10-26, 04:28 PM
Zengar.

Its a Planescape campaign and I'm playing a 'human' from a plane where everything is really tiny in comparison to the rest of the multiverse. Race is going to be a Warforged (the actual Mecha - its a mindless robot). Mechanically the character is a Warforged warrior-type with a giant sword.

sofawall
2009-10-26, 04:30 PM
since when? I've never seen anything explicitly state that, and the wording, iirc, seems to work...

Monkey Grip and Powerful Build both say 'one size more than normal'. Assuming normal is medium, like say for a Goliath, both let you wield large, and are thus redundant.

Eldariel
2009-10-26, 04:37 PM
Psychic Warrior for two categories is the start. Add to that Fullblade proficiency & Strongarm Bracers and you'll be wielding what amounts to Colossal Bastard Sword at no penalties two-handed. And yeah, you can make it Heavy/Gold (who the hell thought of gold weapons anyways... Makes. No. Sense.) for one more size increase to Colossal Fullblade or Colossal+ Bastard Sword. It would do 8d8 base damage at that point, with two EWPs burned, one magic item and one psionic power.

Cieyrin
2009-10-26, 04:42 PM
...then use a Powerful Build effect (racial trait, Jotunbrud feat, or Strongarm Bracers)...

Jotunbrud doesn't let you wield a bigger weapon, it just makes you treat yourself as one size larger for special combat actions. It's almost Powerful Build but not quite.

sofawall
2009-10-26, 04:42 PM
Psychic Warrior for two categories is the start. Add to that Fullblade proficiency & Strongarm Bracers and you'll be wielding what amounts to Colossal Bastard Sword at no penalties two-handed. And yeah, you can make it Heavy/Gold (who the hell thought of gold weapons anyways... Makes. No. Sense.) for one more size increase to Colossal Fullblade or Colossal+ Bastard Sword. It would do 8d8 base damage at that point, with two EWPs burned, one magic item and one psionic power.

Couldn't you just get EWP: Gold Bastard Sword?

Prak
2009-10-26, 04:43 PM
Monkey Grip and Powerful Build both say 'one size more than normal'. Assuming normal is medium, like say for a Goliath, both let you wield large, and are thus redundant.

normal in powerful build is "your size"
normal in monkey grip is "your race"

eh,
I'd say it's a dm interpretation thing, and I'd likely allow it, but that's just me.


(who the hell thought of gold weapons anyways... Makes. No. Sense.)
A weapon crafted of gold, no, it makes no sense, unless you're prepared to apply some hefty penalties to damage and attack due to gold's nature. It's out there with silver, it's really only good against things that are specifically weak to it.

However, the effect of a gold weapon should work if the weapon has, say, a gold core. Which is more feasible.

Eldariel
2009-10-26, 04:46 PM
Couldn't you just get EWP: Gold Bastard Sword?

Eh, I suppose. I'd imagine it's meant to be like Kaorti Resin where the EWP gives you proficiency in heavy weapons, but the way it's written suggests that you could indeed get EWP: Heavy Fullblade and profit.

Sinfire Titan
2009-10-26, 04:50 PM
Couldn't you just get EWP: Gold Bastard Sword?

The RAW is a bit out on this one. It doesn't say that Exotic weapons need an additional feat beyond the normal, but it does say you need EWP for a specific type of weapon. This would fall under DM's call.


A weapon crafted of gold, no, it makes no sense, unless you're prepared to apply some hefty penalties to damage and attack due to gold's nature. It's out there with silver, it's really only good against things that are specifically weak to it.

However, the effect of a gold weapon should work if the weapon has, say, a gold core. Which is more feasible.

Heavy specifically handwaves it as gold weapon that's had an alchemical treatment to be more resilient.

Cieyrin
2009-10-26, 04:52 PM
A weapon crafted of gold, no, it makes no sense, unless you're prepared to apply some hefty penalties to damage and attack due to gold's nature. It's out there with silver, it's really only good against things that are specifically weak to it.

However, the effect of a gold weapon should work if the weapon has, say, a gold core. Which is more feasible.


And yeah, you can make it Heavy/Gold (who the hell thought of gold weapons anyways... Makes. No. Sense.) for one more size increase...

Magically-treated Gold or Platinum, specifically, so it's as tough as steel while still looking pretty. It's mostly meant for use in ceremonial weapons and armor. Only fool adventurers take the time to train to use them for actual combat use. :smalltongue:

deuxhero
2009-10-26, 04:56 PM
Do strong arm bracers (or whatever they are called) stack with powerful build? If they do, would a bastard sword (IIRC said bracers work with one handed weapons only, Bastard Sword counts) of *the size catagory above large that I can recall the name of* size be bigger?

sofawall
2009-10-26, 05:02 PM
Do strong arm bracers (or whatever they are called) stack with powerful build? If they do, would a bastard sword (IIRC said bracers work with one handed weapons only, Bastard Sword counts) of *the size catagory above large that I can recall the name of* size be bigger?

Strongarm Bracers, Monkey Grip and Powerful Build all reference your size, not the size of weapon you wield.

A pity, really.

Alex112524
2009-10-26, 05:03 PM
Psychic Warrior for two categories is the start. Add to that Fullblade proficiency & Strongarm Bracers and you'll be wielding what amounts to Colossal Bastard Sword at no penalties two-handed. And yeah, you can make it Heavy/Gold (who the hell thought of gold weapons anyways... Makes. No. Sense.) for one more size increase to Colossal Fullblade or Colossal+ Bastard Sword. It would do 8d8 base damage at that point, with two EWPs burned, one magic item and one psionic power.

Funny that you mention a Colossal Bastard Sword :smalltongue: (The sword he's trying to emulate is actually called a Colossal Blade, getting it to colossal would be awesome :smallcool:) Hmm, is there any way we can get this guy using powers off of charisma so that his abilities come from his "force of personality" while still being good at melee? In the games the character is from, you control a bunch of people piloting giant robots and your pilots get these things called spirit commands that represent using willpower to make your machines work better, Valor makes your attacks do more damage, Fury makes your attacks ignore defenses, Trust is a healing ability ext.

PinkysBrain
2009-10-26, 05:14 PM
Treant polymorph with strong arm bracers wielding an oversized club using a double expansion tattoo and a shillelagh oil.

Huge, +1 bracers, +1 oversized, +2 expansion, +2 shillelagh.

So that is a Colossal++ weapon doing damage as a Collosal++++ weapon.

Eldariel
2009-10-26, 05:15 PM
*shrug* Sure, Charisma can be used for all combat stats with the right build. Bard with Snowflake Wardance [Frostburn] gets Cha to hit for an encounter by expending Bardic Music-use (but only for one-handed weapons), Slippers of Battle Dancing [DMGII] would work for light weapons when you move 10' or more...

For heavy weapons, it's really hard. You've got Paladin-like Smites but meh...they're like once per year or something; not something you can really rely on. Divine Might would get it for you to damage and can actually be gotten in sufficient quantities as Turn Undead is Cha-based too (though that flies in the face of the Psy War shell given Psy War really wants Wis; I guess you could make the manifesting Wilder-base and dip Cleric or something), but that still leaves the problem with the To Hit.


EDIT: Pinky, don't think Expansion size increases stack with Polymorph.

tonberrian
2009-10-26, 05:27 PM
Funny that you mention a Colossal Bastard Sword :smalltongue: (The sword he's trying to emulate is actually called a Colossal Blade, getting it to colossal would be awesome :smallcool:) Hmm, is there any way we can get this guy using powers off of charisma so that his abilities come from his "force of personality" while still being good at melee? In the games the character is from, you control a bunch of people piloting giant robots and your pilots get these things called spirit commands that represent using willpower to make your machines work better, Valor makes your attacks do more damage, Fury makes your attacks ignore defenses, Trust is a healing ability ext.

So doesn't the build also need some smiting of evil, too? :smalltongue:

PinkysBrain
2009-10-26, 05:30 PM
EDIT: Pinky, don't think Expansion size increases stack with Polymorph.
I think it does ... regardless though, there is always magic jar and mirror of mindswitching too to get a larger body.

LordZarth
2009-10-26, 05:40 PM
As a medium sized creature:

1. Exotic Weapon Proficiency gives you a Medium Fullblade (2d8).
2. Strongarm Bracers (or Monkey Grip or Powerful Build, but... Strongarm Bracers are waaay better than MG at least) for a Large Fullblade (3d8)
3. Enlarge Weapon (or Magic item thereof) for a Huge Fullblade (4d8)
(Optional: Enlarge Person would allow you to wield a Gargantuan Fullblade (6d8)... slapping Sizing on your Fullblade would allow you to slip in and out of this form)

Alex112524
2009-10-26, 05:40 PM
Eldariel, the meleeing works fine as being strength based, I just thought it would be more in line with the character to cast with charisma.


So doesn't the build also need some smiting of evil, too? :smalltongue:

Holy heck, I completely overlooked this, here I'm trying to help a guy play the Sword that Smites Evil in a d&d game, and I forget to say that he should at least have the ability somehow, just for that. I'm ashamed :smallredface:

deuxhero
2009-10-26, 05:44 PM
Wasn't Fullblade a 3.0 item that was based with 3.0's size categories, thus incompatible with 3.5 size categories.

Cieyrin
2009-10-26, 06:04 PM
Wasn't Fullblade a 3.0 item that was based with 3.0's size categories, thus incompatible with 3.5 size categories.

Why would that make a difference? Getting proficiency covers wielding the oversized hunk of steel and what matters here is that it's treated as a Medium fullblade when wielded by a Medium character and you can build up from there.

Alex112524
2009-10-26, 06:15 PM
I thought I'd link a couple of youtube videos to show anyone not familiar with Super Robot Wars what the OP is looking for in his character, so, here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV1uCdfK1tE) and here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvR6nTKpjZI).

herrhauptmann
2009-10-26, 09:22 PM
A gold or platinum weapon creates a weapon with the [heavy] descriptor. To wield a gold weapon (even if you already have proficiency in the regular version) you need weap prof: Heavy, or the weapon has to have a magic enhancement making it lighter, I think it's a +2.

The bling swords are in Magic of Faerun, which is 3.0, and might not be allowed by your DM. ALso a bling weapon costs about 9000 gold extra
Mind you, all this is off the top of my head. The harddrive with my books on it is so filled with viruses I'm afraid to even touch it, let alone put onto my computer.

So:
Human with greatsword m/m
with large greatsword and strongarm bracers m/L
with golden greatsword m/H
with psionic expansion L/G OR H/C

Not sure off the top of my head of Wealth by level, but I don't think you can even afford a gold weapon at 8th level. And if you can, it's probably going to be the majority of your gold (some DM's don't allow an item to be worth more than half your WBL at start). So expansion to get yourself to huge size, and large weapon that becomes Gargantuan
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125053

Thurbane
2009-10-26, 09:32 PM
Human Paragon (get UMD as a class skill), Strongarm Bracers + Monkey Grip (stackable), scrolls of the Wu Jen spell Giant Size. :smalltongue:

oxinabox
2009-10-26, 09:46 PM
Psychic Warrior for two categories is the start. Add to that Fullblade proficiency & Strongarm Bracers and you'll be wielding what amounts to Colossal Bastard Sword at no penalties two-handed. And yeah, you can make it Heavy/Gold (who the hell thought of gold weapons anyways... Makes. No. Sense.) for one more size increase to Colossal Fullblade or Colossal+ Bastard Sword. It would do 8d8 base damage at that point, with two EWPs burned, one magic item and one psionic power.

by full a medium fullbalde is also know as a "ogre's greatsword".
So it would be on it's own equivielent in size to a large greatsword, not to a large bastarge sword.



WHat if we took advantage of the subtly different (and incompatable) siege engine rules between the DMG and Hero's of battle.
By the DMG, a balista is a Huge Crossbow. -4 pentaly if not huge
by HoB balista is a exotic weapon, -4 is not profiecent...

can we do somethign with this?


In a Dark hersy game, one of the players looked at this effective strength, then realised he could easily pick up some sotry of vecheile mounted artilery weapon, in one hand. so for that game, he was litrally weilding a 20++ ton plasma cannon. as his side arm.

(this was at max lvls basically)

Glimbur
2009-10-26, 09:51 PM
If only we were level 12 instead, you could take the Titan bloodline and get Use Oversized Weapon. This lets you wield a two handed warhammer for Gargantuan creatures. Sadly, it might all go south if you then Expand or Enlarge yourself... you specifically can wield that size of weapon, so expanding yourself might make you unable to wield your weapon. So silly.

AslanCross
2009-10-27, 04:47 AM
Wasn't Fullblade a 3.0 item that was based with 3.0's size categories, thus incompatible with 3.5 size categories.

Not really. In 3.5 terms, it's simply a Large bastard sword that you can access via Exotic Weapon Proficiency.


I thought I'd link a couple of youtube videos to show anyone not familiar with Super Robot Wars what the OP is looking for in his character, so, here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lV1uCdfK1tE) and here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WvR6nTKpjZI).

Ah, the appeal of enormous weapons. A goliath can take EWP: Fullblade and be able to carry a Large fullblade, which is a bastard sword sized for Huge creatures. (3d8).

Eldariel
2009-10-27, 04:48 AM
by full a medium fullbalde is also know as a "ogre's greatsword".
So it would be on it's own equivielent in size to a large greatsword, not to a large bastarge sword.

Considering its damage is equivalent to Large Bastard Sword, I'm inclined to say it's a Large Bastard Sword (well, that and the fact that Large Bastard Sword would be wieldable in two hands if you're proficient while Large Greatsword would not be; this just removes the penalty).

"Ogre's Greatsword" is just a moniker. 'cause Large Greatsword deals 3d6 damage and can't be wielded by medium characters no matter how proficient they are with it.

oxinabox
2009-10-27, 04:59 AM
Considering its damage is equivalent to Large Bastard Sword, I'm inclined to say it's a Large Bastard Sword (well, that and the fact that Large Bastard Sword would be wieldable in two hands if you're proficient while Large Greatsword would not be; this just removes the penalty).

"Ogre's Greatsword" is just a moniker. 'cause Large Greatsword deals 3d6 damage and can't be wielded by medium characters no matter how proficient they are with it.

I concead you point

Cieyrin
2009-10-27, 01:05 PM
A gold or platinum weapon creates a weapon with the [heavy] descriptor. To wield a gold weapon (even if you already have proficiency in the regular version) you need weap prof: Heavy, or the weapon has to have a magic enhancement making it lighter, I think it's a +2.

The bling swords are in Magic of Faerun, which is 3.0, and might not be allowed by your DM. ALso a bling weapon costs about 9000 gold extra
Mind you, all this is off the top of my head. The harddrive with my books on it is so filled with viruses I'm afraid to even touch it, let alone put onto my computer.

So:
Human with greatsword m/m
with large greatsword and strongarm bracers m/L
with golden greatsword m/H
with psionic expansion L/G OR H/C

Not sure off the top of my head of Wealth by level, but I don't think you can even afford a gold weapon at 8th level. And if you can, it's probably going to be the majority of your gold (some DM's don't allow an item to be worth more than half your WBL at start). So expansion to get yourself to huge size, and large weapon that becomes Gargantuan
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125053

Making a weapon out of magically-treated gold or platinum via MoF for a weapon of that size costs 7k, plus whatever else. 8th level character has WBL of 27k, so I think he could afford a Large MW Platinum Fullblade for the price of 7500 gp. Expansion and Enlarge Person both cover increasing it in size further, so that's all you'd need it to be.

PlzBreakMyCmpAn
2009-10-27, 01:42 PM
normal in powerful build is "your size"
normal in monkey grip is "your race"Is this correct? I've never seen a convincing argument that they should NOT stack. iirc when I looked at it the wording seemed that 1 of the three would not stack with the other two but it could still be made to work.

Fluffles
2009-10-27, 02:42 PM
Colossal.

Tauric + Goliath + Strongarm Bracers +-4 penalty for an oversized weapon = Large size (base) + Powerful Build (So Base is huge) +1 from Oversized wep +1 From 1 expansion in crease = Colossal.

Cheesy though :smalltongue:

EDIT: Whoops, forgot about Heavy Weapons. So Colossal+

Prak
2009-10-27, 06:10 PM
Is this correct? I've never seen a convincing argument that they should NOT stack. iirc when I looked at it the wording seemed that 1 of the three would not stack with the other two but it could still be made to work.

I honestly doubt it's correct, but it's my interpretation as a DM, I mean, with as crappy as monkey grip is, I really don't see much problem in allowing these things to stack.

Coidzor
2009-10-27, 06:20 PM
How much does one of those gems that can be put into MW weapons to enchant them so long as the gem is in them cost?

Otherwise I guess magic weapon oils or friends with the caster'll cover getting stuff for bypassing DR/magic.

Indon
2009-10-27, 06:49 PM
Hmm, effective size, or actual size?

Effective size, you can Monkey-Grip-Wield a shield 2-handed (+2 actual size increases) with the Bashing enhancement (+2 effective size increases) and spikes (+1 effective size increase). Then you can get all the standard size increasing stuff.

Actual size, you can try being a Kensai with a single level of Monk, so long as Sizing is a +1 or +2 enhancement (I don't remember). Grow yourself to super-size via your Kensai self-enhancement, then pluck a tree from the ground and go to town!

herrhauptmann
2009-10-27, 11:34 PM
Making a weapon out of magically-treated gold or platinum via MoF for a weapon of that size costs 7k, plus whatever else. 8th level character has WBL of 27k, so I think he could afford a Large MW Platinum Fullblade for the price of 7500 gp. Expansion and Enlarge Person both cover increasing it in size further, so that's all you'd need it to be.

Really, coulda sworn it was lower WBL at level 8. I really need access to my books again. Anyway, since you got the cash, go nuts.

Oh yeah, make your weapon an everbright as well. After you've put this kind of work into it, you don't want to lose it to a rust monster or some ooze.

Cieyrin
2009-10-28, 01:06 AM
Really, coulda sworn it was lower WBL at level 8. I really need access to my books again. Anyway, since you got the cash, go nuts.

Oh yeah, make your weapon an everbright as well. After you've put this kind of work into it, you don't want to lose it to a rust monster or some ooze.

Oh man, I was without my books for the second half of summer. Not good times. :smallfrown:

As for rusting, since platinum and gold are both not ferrous, it could be ruled that they're not affected by such but sure, you could afford to spend another 4k to make it actually magical (+1, finally!) and Everbright. You'll have the shiniest slab of platinum anywhere.:smallbiggrin:

herrhauptmann
2009-10-28, 02:00 AM
Oh man, I was without my books for the second half of summer. Not good times. :smallfrown:

As for rusting, since platinum and gold are both not ferrous, it could be ruled that they're not affected by such but sure, you could afford to spend another 4k to make it actually magical (+1, finally!) and Everbright. You'll have the shiniest slab of platinum anywhere.:smallbiggrin:

The ooze I encountered destroyed everything we owned that was wood, metal, or paper. Just by being adjacent to us.
That included my scrolls in extra dimensional storage space, the awesome amulet the psion wore (boed amulet of retribution), the psions extra 12k gold he didn't spend at character creation, and my ironwood dancing tower shield.
It did not destroy my main weapon and armor solely because of blueshine and everbright.
Also, any weapon which struck him was instantly destroyed (again except for everbright)
Anyway, enough rambling out of me. Depending on the DM, any metal weapon that is not specifically immune to rust or acid will be destroyed, no save, under certain conditions. Some DMs will agree with you Cieyrin, others will be jerks like mine was. Don't be caught unprepared.


edit: For gold or platinum [heavy] weapons, you need a feat to use them properly, or a magical enhancement. +1 or +2 cost to make it count in weight as a lighter weapon. Course you're SOL and sucking up a -4 (someone check) if the magic gets suppressed in some way.

Sstoopidtallkid
2009-10-28, 02:03 AM
The ooze I encountered destroyed everything we owned that was wood, metal, or paper. Just by being adjacent to us.
That included my scrolls in extra dimensional storage space, the awesome amulet the psion wore (boed amulet of retribution), the psions extra 12k gold he didn't spend at character creation, and my ironwood dancing tower shield.
It did not destroy my main weapon and armor solely because of blueshine and everbright.
Also, any weapon which struck him was instantly destroyed (again except for everbright)
Anyway, enough rambling out of me. Depending on the DM, any metal weapon that is not specifically immune to rust or acid will be destroyed, no save, under certain conditions. Some DMs will agree with you Cieyrin, others will be jerks like mine was. Don't be caught unprepared....umm, which ooze was this? Most of them IIRC have to grapple you, then you get to make a save, after which your items take damage. If that damage is enough to destroy the item, you lose it. Losing all your gear, no save, just for the thing being near you is the sort of thing I'd expect out of 2e, not 3.5.

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-28, 03:53 AM
Goliath Psywar 7.

Expansion to huge, powerful build a Gargantuan weapon.

That's the easiest I can think of.
Less optimal feat choices would allow it with human and monkey grip.

EDIT: Also, with a -4 penalty, you could use a Colossal 1 handed weapon. It'd need 2 hands to wield, and you'd take the penalty... But a Goliath Psywar 7 could do it.

18 base Str + 2 race + 2 level + 4 size + 2 enhancement = 28 Str. +9 to hit.
BAB for Psywar 7 = +5
Weapon Focus = +1
Size Penalty = -2
Oversize weapon = -4

Total hit: +9 (+1 if it's a MW weapon)

Not great accuracy, but it's a colossal weapon. Exotic Weapon Proficiency in the Bastard Sword, and you're using a colossal bastard sword 2 handed.