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ShneekeyTheLost
2009-10-26, 11:58 PM
Okay, I got to thinking, while reading yet another 2nd vs 3.x ed debate. There's some things we can do to help balance out the classes, if we put our heads together to kind of help out melee classes

1) Full Arcane or Divine Casters have a 'dummy' ECL +1. In other words, they need as much xp as required to level up to the following level after the one they are trying to achieve. Thus, to get to 2nd level, they have to get as much xp as they would need to get to 3rd. This does not, in any way, count as a Level Adjustment, it simply takes them longer to level.

2) After a while, you stop gaining hit points as rapidly.

a) 'Fighter' classes, those who are non-casters, progress up to 20th level normally

'rogue' classes, or 'hybrid' classes with some casting (pally and ranger and bard, as Core examples), go up to 15th level. From there, they gain only 1 hit point plus their Con bonus

'caster' classes, including divine, stop gaining hit points normally at 10th level. From there, they gain one hit point, plus Con mod.

b) Only full BAB Non-Caster or Hybrid classes get their full Con bonus. Everyone else is capped to a maximum of +3 Con bonus to hit points.

3) Nerfed Casting Time.

a) Quicken Spell does not exist. In fact, there exists no way to get more than one spell off per round. Ever.

b) Spells of 1st through 3rd have their normal casting time. Spells of 4th through 6th, if they have a casting time of 1 standard action, now have a casting time of one full round action. 7th through 9th level spells which have a casting time of one standard action now add an additional round to their casting. Thus it takes one full round to 'prepare' the spell, then a standard action during their next turn to cast it.

c) Concentration checks made to avoid AoO's are increased in difficulty by the strength of the opponents. In general, if it has HD equal to or less than the caster the DC is normal. If it is 1-1.25 times, it's a +1. Increase by an additional +1 for every 25% increment.

This should help balance out melee and casters a bit, and hearken back a bit to some of the things that 2nd ed used to balance out melee and casters

Mongoose87
2009-10-27, 12:03 AM
The rogue is already a "glass-cannon," don't nerf his hp!

Milskidasith
2009-10-27, 12:05 AM
This doesn't really work as a fix... sure, casters now can't abuse the action economy (though getting rid of all swift and immediate action spells makes lots of the ones that aren't super abusable, like Alter Fortune or Ruin Delvers Fortune) but their actions are still miles more powerful than the poor melee classes. It only takes a full round action to Forcecage a melee character, and from there it doesn't really matter what they try to do.

KitsuneKionchi
2009-10-27, 12:25 AM
This doesn't really work as a fix... sure, casters now can't abuse the action economy (though getting rid of all swift and immediate action spells makes lots of the ones that aren't super abusable, like Alter Fortune or Ruin Delvers Fortune) but their actions are still miles more powerful than the poor melee classes. It only takes a full round action to Forcecage a melee character, and from there it doesn't really matter what they try to do.

Yes, but that's in a 1 on 1 arena fight. Most players in DnD tend to be in more elaborate scenerios than a fixed one on one fight with another race-class combination like themselves. They tend to be in dungeons. Fighting things like dragons.

AstralFire
2009-10-27, 12:27 AM
Perhaps, but I think what this fix really does is completely screw blaster wizards utterly while not really making a serious dent in the abusers. (Action economy does hurt them a lot, but remember that they're called Batman Wizards - aka 'time to plan', which mitigates the issue). There is no way to make a blanket fix and have it really work without surgery on the spells themselves.

Latronis
2009-10-27, 12:48 AM
This should help balance out melee and casters a bit, and hearken back a bit to some of the things that 2nd ed used to balance out melee and casters

Wait.. people don't actually believe melee and casters were balanced in 2nd edition surely?

AstralFire
2009-10-27, 12:51 AM
Balanced, no, but 2E did have more checks and fewer options.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-10-27, 01:20 AM
Wait.. people don't actually believe melee and casters were balanced in 2nd edition surely?

Objectively balanced? Not at all. More balanced? Definitely, though it was most likely unintentional and/or a secondary concern.