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View Full Version : [3.5] Necklace of Natural Weapons + Vampiric property on a Kobold?



Pika...
2009-10-27, 01:53 AM
One of my current PCs is a rogue4/swash4/cleric4 who I has just gotten enough money, and the loan of an ally's artificer to make something.

Right now I am thinking of perhaps getting a +1 Vampiric (MiC p.45) Necklace of Natural Weapons (Savage Species p. 58) that affects his claws. The price would be 6,975gp. One that would include his bite attack would be 12,225gp, but he wishes to have a Zeppelin fleet made so he REALLY needs to save up and get the bare minimum in personal gear.

He specializes in getting sneak attacks in.

I am thinking this would make him able to survive in the front lines? Or is this just a waste?

olentu
2009-10-27, 02:08 AM
Vampiric is something like +1d6 damage and healing if attacking a living creature as I recall. So an average 7 bonus damage and healing per round if both claws hit (barring rapid strike or something). Assuming I am remembering the property correctly at level 12 that is probably going to have a negligible impact on survivability.

arguskos
2009-10-27, 02:27 AM
Vampiric is something like +1d6 damage and healing if attacking a living creature as I recall. So an average 7 bonus damage and healing per round if both claws hit (barring rapid strike or something). Assuming I am remembering the property correctly at level 12 that is probably going to have a negligible impact on survivability.
It'll HELP, but unless he's REALLY good at survival anyways, I doubt it'll make him that much more amazing.

How durable are you already? How frequently do you hit? Does the Vampiric enchantment stack with itself? If the answers aren't "decently, 70%+, and yes", you might want to hold your cash. Just my thoughts, anyways.

Pika...
2009-10-27, 02:49 AM
1. Well, with his stealth and ability to go invisible after attacking/when in danger he has been doing well the last two sessions.

2. He has a +16 to hit on his attacks at level 12, and his goal is to always either flank or get his opponents flat-footed. I am not really sure at this point, though.

3. It does 1d6 extra damage, and heals him the same amount. Would that cause stacking issues?

arguskos
2009-10-27, 02:57 AM
1. Well, with his stealth and ability to go invisible after attacking/when in danger he has been doing well the last two sessions.
That's great and all, but it doesn't actually save you from someone deciding to waste you in one shot. As a Rog 4/Swash 4/Clr 4, he likely doesn't have a vast amount of life, nor an amazing AC. I'm guessing he's around 80-90 hp, and in the vicinity of AC 30. Against a solid melee critter, he won't survive too many hits, which could be a real issue.


2. He has a +16 to hit on his attacks at level 12, and his goal is to always either flank or get his opponents flat-footed. I am not really sure at this point, though.
+16 feels low to me, since I can get better than that at half your level. Given your build, I'll guess it's a lower-powered game, so that's not terrible, but it doesn't seem crazy high, even against flanked/flat-footed foes.


3. It does 1d6 extra damage, and heals him the same amount. Would that cause stacking issues?
That's DM dependent I think, since Vampiric is based on Vampiric Touch the spell, which explicitly doesn't stack. Likely, it isn't intended to stack, but that's an "ask the DM" moment.

From my interpretations above, I'd guess that it'd be alright, but you're better off either saving your money for something else (like your Zeppelins) or pumping your defense and letting SA take care of the baddies. Vampiric seems ok, but I don't think it's the best use of your time or money.

Person_Man
2009-10-27, 09:31 AM
rogue4/swash4/cleric4? Really? Wow. What are your feats and books allowed? It'll effect which magic items and/or combo you can pull off.

Off the top of my head:

Retributive Amulet: Probably one of the most powerful defensive items out there. Every time you take melee damage, that damage is split between you and the attacker. Book of Exalted Deeds pg 116.

Shield of the Severed Hand: Once per round grants you a Free Bull Rush whenever an enemy attacks you and misses. Requires True Believer feat and 7 HD. Complete Divine pg 102 or Magic Item Compendium.

Shadowy Diadem: Concealment and immunity to energy drain limited times per day. Cheap. Dragon Magic pg 103.

Bodyfeeder weapon enhancement: Any time you crit, you gain temporary hit points. Before combat, cast Summon Monster I (or just carry a bag of mice). Bind the whatever so that it's helpless. Coup de Grace it with a *4 crit weapon. The temporary hit points last for 10 minutes. Expanded Psionics Handbook. Link (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/SRD:Bodyfeeder).

Mohrg’s Tongue undead graft: Gives you a secondary touch attack that Paralyzes enemies. Paralyzed enemies can be Coup de Graced. Libris Mortis pg 80.

Paralyzing weapon enhancement: Any creature hit must Save or be Paralyzed. They get a new save every round. Book of Exalted Deeds pg 113.

Poison Fangs yuan-ti graft: Adds a strong poison to any existing bite attack (which can be had many different ways (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?p=7066595)). Serpent Kingdoms pg 154.

Vampiric weapon enhancement: Each hit heals a small amount of damage. Unapproachable East pg 54.

Fiendring: Once per day you can turn into any fiendish creature, devil, or demon that can be summoned via Summon Monster I through IV. Unlike Polymorph, you gain all of their special abilities (DR, SR, etc). Lost Empires of Faerun pg 152.

Night Caller: You can blow this whistle over any grave to turn a corpse into a zombie that serves you loyally until destroyed. After you kill a powerful enemy, bury him and then make him serve you as a Flanking partner. Libris Mortis pg 79.

jiriku
2009-10-27, 04:36 PM
It's a waste. For a character like yours, items that add AC or miss chance, or prevent the enemy from attacking you at all, will enhance your survivability far more.

Tyndmyr
2009-10-27, 05:30 PM
As a rogue, look at a way of getting blink. It's a bit more expensive even by DMG rules, but in addition to giving you a nifty miss chance, it does so via concealment. IE, another way to hide/sneak attack.

Also, walking through walls is handy.

deuxhero
2009-10-27, 06:13 PM
Necklace of natural attacks was reprinted for 3.5 in D&D fight club (or one of the other articles), but that doesn't really change anything (relating to this thread anyways).

Darrin
2009-10-27, 09:34 PM
Retributive Amulet: Probably one of the most powerful defensive items out there. Every time you take melee damage, that damage is split between you and the attacker. Book of Exalted Deeds pg 116.


Nerfed in MIC to 3/day.



Paralyzing weapon enhancement: Any creature hit must Save or be Paralyzed. They get a new save every round. Book of Exalted Deeds pg 113.


Nerfed in MIC to 1/day. You can get something similar with a Torturous weapon (Ghostwalk p. 64). On every hit target must make a Fort save DC 12 or is stunned for 1 round, which sounds like it wouldn't be worth it, but you can upgrade the enhancement to +2 and the Fort save goes up to a much more respectable DC 17.



Fiendring: Once per day you can turn into any fiendish creature, devil, or demon that can be summoned via Summon Monster I through IV. Unlike Polymorph, you gain all of their special abilities (DR, SR, etc). Lost Empires of Faerun pg 152.


Still trying to find something decent to turn into... by the time you can afford that thing, anything fiendish you can summon up through SMIV is tepid weaksauce.

maniakmastah
2009-10-27, 11:16 PM
Hey dude, it's me again. Here's some ideas that i think, and this is just my opinion, can help your character get that extra protection and get that extra punch in.

Ring of Invisibility- A rogue's best friend, you can use this ring to turn invisible and get behind an enemy, and tail them til a PC flanks with you, and you can then make your sneak attacks, passing by enemies (who fail their listen checks) without being attacked. Best of all, it's useable at will, and at 20,000 gp, is reasonably priced for it's effect

Cloak of Minor Displacement- At 24,000 gp, it isn't cheap, but a continuous 20% miss chance gives you some protection in case someone tries to take a swing or a shot at you, and it's continuous. The Greater Displacement cloak, at 50,000 gp, gives you a 50% miss chance, but it only useable 15 rounds a day, divided as wearer sees fit.

Necklace of Natural Weapons with +1 Speed- Here's something that could be useful. Getting the Speed enchantment to this necklace gives you an extra attack at your highest bonus when you make a full attack. But here's what could make this useful, flank with someone and make a full attack, and when you hit, it's a sneak attack. Speed is a +3 bonus, so it's not too difficult to get at your level.

Gwaeron's Boots- One of the biggest derailers of going invisible is facing enemies with the Scent ability, they can sniff you out and find you with ease. Gwaeron's Boots, however, makes you undetectable by scent and gives you a continuous Pass without Trace. At only 6,000 gp, it's a steal.

These are some ideas i can think of at the moment, if i think of some more, i'll post 'em.

Pika...
2009-10-28, 07:10 AM
Well, I have decided to invest in my Zeppelin fleet instead.

That is, unless that powergamer player just got all the recent dungeon's loot. At that point I'm calling it and putting this PC back in my backup folder.