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View Full Version : (Abandoned) [3.5 House Rule] Swap a move action for a 5ft step



Altair_the_Vexed
2009-10-27, 03:49 AM
Under the RAW, you can only take a 5ft step if you've made no other movement in the round, and if you've taken no other 5ft steps in the round.

As a house rule, I think it would be cool and versatile to allow a move action to be swapped for a 5ft step - allowing you to (for example) 5ft step, then charge; or to 5ft step out of cover, fire a single shot, then step back.
Situations in which this would be most useful would be (I guess) when the battle is tight and many squares are threatened.

What do you think? Is this a reasonable house rule? Can it be broken?

Ashtagon
2009-10-27, 04:16 AM
It's not so much broken as a case of "huh?".

Normally, with a move action, an unencumbered human travels 30 feet. You want to give that up for the opportunity to instead move 5 feet. I'm not sure what benefit you are seeing here.

5 foot step and then charge? Not possible with this change anyway, since a charge requires you to use a full-round action if it is available. the only time when you are normally allowed to charge as a standard action is in the surprise round, where you don't have a full-round action (and then the distance you can charge is half what it would otherwise be).

The charge rules are excessively limiting, in that you are supposed to draw a line to the target's square. I'd personally houserule that to drawing a line to any square in which you'd threaten the target.

Step out of cover, shoot, then step back in cover? You're essentially getting the Shot on the Run feat for free in this case. Which probably sucks hard for those who spent a feat on it.

I think there's a rule that certain kinds of cover (low walls, pillars, etc) do not obstruct you from using ranged weapons, while still protecting you. I'd have to reread the specific rules though. That probably does much of what you want to get by itself.

Latronis
2009-10-27, 04:36 AM
and if you can break hide you can even use the sniper rules quite effectively

Zeta Kai
2009-10-27, 04:51 AM
Uh, my understanding is that you can move up to your speed. Meaning that you could, of course, move 5' & then stop already. Nothing (AFAIK) says that you are compelled to travel the full distance. Ergo, this would be a redundant house rule.

Fiery Diamond
2009-10-27, 05:00 AM
Uh, my understanding is that you can move up to your speed. Meaning that you could, of course, move 5' & then stop already. Nothing (AFAIK) says that you are compelled to travel the full distance. Ergo, this would be a redundant house rule.

No, a five foot step is not the same as moving five feet, so it isn't redundant. There are all kinds of benefits that five foot steps get that moves don't - not provoking attacks of opportunity, for one.


Anyway, as for the thing about this negating the need for shot on the run...well, not entirely, only in very specific circumstances. You could move a lot further with shot on the run than with this. In any case, I think that that feat should be houseruled to have fewer prerequisites anyway. Heck, I think most of the fighting-related feats should have fewer prerequisites.

Milskidasith
2009-10-27, 05:49 AM
No, a five foot step is not the same as moving five feet, so it isn't redundant. There are all kinds of benefits that five foot steps get that moves don't - not provoking attacks of opportunity, for one.

I think that's the only benefit, actually.

This fix really only lets people poke in and out of cover, which makes, you guessed it, those darn ranged touch attack casting mages even more powerful because it makes them immune to charges & arrows while still letting them get their blast on.

Latronis
2009-10-27, 06:09 AM
What does that say about the community when it only takes a short time for someone to think up how batman can abuse a suggested houserule >_>

Milskidasith
2009-10-27, 06:12 AM
Well, any ranged attacker, really. It negates the point of a five foot step, which is to allow you to back up in a protected way, instead allowing you to pop in and out of cover at no penalty.

Even a normal ranged attacker could screw a charger build with this, by shooting and ducking back behind cover, although unlike wizards, they need a full round action to do decent damage.

Mulletmanalive
2009-10-27, 06:12 AM
I use something similar in that i charge a Swift action for all Shifting [what it's called in Mecha Victoriana] and this is combined with complete action transparency [All of your Moves can become Swift etc].

I haven't found it to be an issue, and works out nicely for melee characters but then, it's a Steampunk setting with an Aim action...

Not too many spellcasters and they're back at the bottom of the "please don't pay me murderous attention" food chain.

Not sure how i can help really because I genuinely don't deal with Uber-mages.

Ashtagon
2009-10-27, 07:08 AM
For the "step out of cover shoot then step back" option, the fact that a 5-foot step doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity isn't really a great benefit. Enemy attacks of opportunity would require you to be in his melee range at some point. This tactic absolutely won't be a defence against enemies with readied actions to shoot you when you step out of cover. Ranged enemy attacks are presumably what you need to be concerned about if you are far enough to be using ranged weapons yourself.

Zeta Kai
2009-10-27, 07:32 AM
I think that's the only benefit, actually.

This fix really only lets people poke in and out of cover, which makes, you guessed it, those darn ranged touch attack casting mages even more powerful because it makes them immune to charges & arrows while still letting them get their blast on.

Huh, I guess I've been using this house rule for years, then. It's a good thing that my players don't go full-on Batman on me. Yet.


What does that say about the community when it only takes a short time for someone to think up how batman can abuse a suggested houserule >_>

It says that we're on the ball, & that we're vigilant against the abuses of the most commonly-encountered brokenness.

Latronis
2009-10-27, 07:44 AM
It says that we're on the ball, & that we're vigilant against the abuses of the most commonly-encountered brokenness.

Well let's just say you're a little more generous than I am :smallbiggrin:

Altair_the_Vexed
2009-10-27, 09:36 AM
Fair enough. I think I'll abandon this concept.

Zeta Kai
2009-10-27, 09:39 AM
Yay, we killed it!

Wait, that's not good... Now I'm sad...

:smallfrown:

Altair_the_Vexed
2009-10-27, 10:10 AM
Don't feel sad! I was just drawing in the sandbox to see what happened.