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View Full Version : [3.5] Running a game with no maps or miniatures.



Myou
2009-10-27, 12:46 PM
After wrestling with undersized maps and a poor interface in gametable for yet another time today, my party and I decided to just give up on visually representing battle situations - I was spending more time drawing or laying out the map than actually describing it, and drawings are awful in gametable.

And so for today's session I ran the game as a purely text-based affair, and I actually found it liberating to be free of the bulky, poorly made mapping software.

I was careful to give the dimensios and positions of key features, but that was far faster than drawing them out.

Does anyone else run or play in games that don't use maps? Are there any problems I need to be aware of?

infinitypanda
2009-10-27, 12:57 PM
I vastly prefer mapless campaigns. Vaaaaastly.

Flayerman
2009-10-27, 01:00 PM
Grab some dice to let them know where they are (using the dice as markers) and you'll be golden, my group does it all the time and it prevents the map-fixation some people tend to get ("I can hit all of these with my fireball if I tweak just a bit to the left").

tl;dr Get some rough markers, mapless is better.

Myou
2009-10-27, 01:01 PM
I vastly prefer mapless campaigns. Vaaaaastly.

And why might that be? :smallsmile:


Grab some dice to let them know where they are (using the dice as markers) and you'll be golden, my group does it all the time and it prevents the map-fixation some people tend to get ("I can hit all of these with my fireball if I tweak just a bit to the left").

tl;dr Get some rough markers, mapless is better.

Sadly we play over IMs, so we'd need to find a virtual table for that. One that isn't as horrible a Gametable. (Seriously, it clutters your start bar up with two windows for just one program. :smallannoyed: )

jiriku
2009-10-27, 01:14 PM
For tabletop, I use a dry-erase white board and just roughly sketch things out. For gaming via IM or chat program, yeah, just text. All it takes is good player/DM communication (can I run there in one round? Can I hit both those guys with this spell?).

Brendan
2009-10-27, 01:16 PM
My group grabs a chess set and a few lego people. Out of battles, though, no, we use nothing.

Flayerman
2009-10-27, 01:17 PM
Ah, one of my groups plays over IMs as well! It's great fun, very easy to use really. Just have them ask "how many can I hit with this spell" and you'll be gold.

Myou
2009-10-27, 01:17 PM
For tabletop, I use a dry-erase white board and just roughly sketch things out. For gaming via IM or chat program, yeah, just text. All it takes is good player/DM communication (can I run there in one round? Can I hit both those guys with this spell?).


Ah, one of my groups plays over IMs as well! It's great fun, very easy to use really. Just have them ask "how many can I hit with this spell" and you'll be gold.

Yeah, that's what I'm going for. Words save a thouand pictures. :smalltongue:


My group grabs a chess set and a few lego people. Out of battles, though, no, we use nothing.

Do you put the pieces on the board as a grid? xD

James the Dark
2009-10-27, 01:21 PM
I vastly prefer mapless to mapped. Two reasons: One, I have enough imagination that I can visualize what's going on with a thumbnail, but easily distracted enough that if presented with a portrait I can get lost. Two, the games I play are usually so mobile (Scion: Demigod) or atactical (Hunter: the Vigil) that a map would be a waste of time.

Starscream
2009-10-27, 01:30 PM
When playing in person I like to use a map, but for online games mapless works just fine.

valadil
2009-10-27, 01:40 PM
I vastly prefer mapless to mapped. Two reasons: One, I have enough imagination that I can visualize what's going on with a thumbnail,

Too much imagination is the problem I've had with mapless games. Spatial description is hard and tedious. If you're going to go mapless you pretty much have to accept whatever map is in the GM's head and be willing to bend your imagination around that each round. I'm comfortable with asking how many enemies I can hit with a stinking cloud, but players who thrive on tactical play often find it frustrating.

Myou
2009-10-27, 01:43 PM
Too much imagination is the problem I've had with mapless games. Spatial description is hard and tedious. If you're going to go mapless you pretty much have to accept whatever map is in the GM's head and be willing to bend your imagination around that each round. I'm comfortable with asking how many enemies I can hit with a stinking cloud, but players who thrive on tactical play often find it frustrating.

Then I'm glad my player isn't like that. His idea of tactical thinking is "Can I charge him?". xD

Which is odd - he's not even a charger! :smalleek:

Ozreth
2009-10-27, 01:52 PM
Has anybody tried map tools instead of gametable? Its supposed to be ultimately superior. Apparantly it can do everything gametable can do and then some, and things that openrpg could never dream of doing.

Anyways, Im just now venturing into playing over the net. In person I really like maps. We have one very large one that we mainly play on and several smaller ones that I can pre draw on and switch out whenever needed. Besides, taking a minute or two to draw some lines in between major scenes is a nice quick break for the players.

Also, I really enjoy writing my campaigns. I write everything as a word document formatted like any module you would grab in store, full of pictures, maps, keys, legends, etc. I then print it out and bind it like a book. Its kind of a hobby in itself for me. Besides, no matter how good your imagination is, maps always help add to hte immersion. My group also loves to build and paint minis so yeah we go all out with the table top. Soon Ill probably be incorporating solid 3d objects like trees and houses and castles etc.

Blackfang108
2009-10-27, 01:53 PM
After wrestling with undersized maps and a poor interface in gametable for yet another time today, my party and I decided to just give up on visually representing battle situations - I was spending more time drawing or laying out the map than actually describing it, and drawings are awful in gametable.

And so for today's session I ran the game as a purely text-based affair, and I actually found it liberating to be free of the bulky, poorly made mapping software.

I was careful to give the dimensios and positions of key features, but that was far faster than drawing them out.

Does anyone else run or play in games that don't use maps? Are there any problems I need to be aware of?

I play in one, an Epic Level ECL22 Campaign. I'd like maps for this campaign only because I have a lot of area spells, and I never seem to be able to get more than two or three creatures within a 30' radius, even on what is described as "a pitched battlefield, about 70% enemies." (I know that the size of that battle would have been impossible to use minis for, but it breaks my SoD to believe that, in the middle of a crowded battlefield, there is no spot within 400' that has more than three enemies within 30' of each other. Especially when they approach en masse. I was also flying at thast time, making Line of Sight a non-issue.)

However, for the large majority of the fights(85-95%), I find this works VERY well, and is a great way to practice spacial visualization.

The DM needs to be VERY detailed, however, so players don't overlook something that may be useful, and if it's done in person, the players need to be very focused on the game, otherwise this could bog.

We did use a map once, but it was NECESSARY for that fight. (Scout in the other group.)

Shadwen
2009-10-27, 01:55 PM
I actually run, and play mapless games. The maps tend to annoy me with all the direction tweaks and aoe (area spells) that people argue over distance and such with the dm. Mapless is far better in my opinion.

Starscream
2009-10-27, 02:08 PM
Has anybody tried map tools instead of gametable? Its supposed to be ultimately superior. Apparantly it can do everything gametable can do and then some, and things that openrpg could never dream of doing.

I've tried it. It looks pretty sweet. Never actually used it for a game, though, I'm still playing one on OpenRPG.

Random832
2009-10-27, 02:09 PM
I actually run, and play mapless games. The maps tend to annoy me with all the direction tweaks and aoe (area spells) that people argue over distance and such with the dm. Mapless is far better in my opinion.

Just use templates (or a computer mapping system).

If they have to get the direction / position of the area of effect _just so_ to get the effect they want, make them roll to hit a square.

Bagelz
2009-10-27, 02:29 PM
there is nothing wrong with not using maps in combat. I have played in AIM games where there was an initial setting packet (with maps and town info) and never saw another map again.

personally I use screen monkey http://www.nbos.com/products/screenmonkey/screenmonkey.htm

only the dm needs to install software (and its small), the other players just use a web browser. It doesn't try to incorporate rules or anything, you just have a kindof online whiteboard you can draw on or place tokens on.

Shpadoinkle
2009-10-27, 04:23 PM
I've played both. I prefer having a map because I'm a rather visual person, and it helps me understand what all is going on and where everyone is. I can appreciate why someone would prefer not to have one, though.

Temet Nosce
2009-10-27, 05:32 PM
Does anyone else run or play in games that don't use maps? Are there any problems I need to be aware of?

Pretty much purely, unless the DM is completely set on using them, and not really. Just remember to list distances in feet and describe anything in the environment which might stand out without being asked.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-10-27, 07:40 PM
I generally run a mapless game, with a few markers and a whiteboard providing all the notation we need. However...


My group grabs a chess set and a few lego people.

...for my home group, I pull out all the stops for the set piece battles, i.e. a massive LEGO dungeon:

The very beginning of the dungeon circa 3-4 years ago (don't have any more recent pictures):

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb176/psychictheurge10/DSCF1977.jpg

...and yes, it's fully customizable:

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb176/psychictheurge10/DSCF1978.jpg
:smallbiggrin:

Myou
2009-10-27, 07:48 PM
I generally run a mapless game, with a few markers and a whiteboard providing all the notation we need. However...



...for my home group, I pull out all the stops for the set piece battles, i.e. a massive LEGO dungeon:

The very beginning of the dungeon circa 3-4 years ago (don't have any more recent pictures):

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb176/psychictheurge10/DSCF1977.jpg

...and yes, it's fully customizable:

http://i208.photobucket.com/albums/bb176/psychictheurge10/DSCF1978.jpg
:smallbiggrin:

:smalleek:

That is... impressive!

Indon
2009-10-27, 07:51 PM
The only D&D game I have played using a map in years has been a 4th edition game.

Gerrtt
2009-10-27, 08:11 PM
I used to play in a game where we had miniatures, but no grid. We just made up all the distances and spacing on the fly. My DM used to say that using a grid didn't make any sense because our characters wouldn't really know how far they could run or how big fireballs were anyways.

Once I got a gridmap I haven't wanted to play any other way.

Whiteboards are good though, if you have to use something.

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-10-27, 09:17 PM
:smalleek:

That is... impressive!

I try. :smallcool: