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Shadwen
2009-10-27, 09:17 PM
Barbarian with a composite long bow...using only the complete warrior and phbs..is it possible? and would be be smart to?

infinitypanda
2009-10-27, 09:18 PM
If SRD is allowed, you can go Whirling Frenzy too. I'd say it's not only possible, but properly optimized it can be pretty good.

AstralFire
2009-10-27, 09:21 PM
In core, Barbarians make better archers than Fighters and probably Rangers - let me see...

L1: Point-Blank
L3: Rapid
L6: Precise
L9: Imp. Precise

Yep!

Cleric is still better, but, well. Clerics. -hearty laugh-

Shadwen
2009-10-27, 09:22 PM
So if i were to do such a thing what would i enchant the bow with? What would be the idea on the build also? what stats where?

AstralFire
2009-10-27, 09:27 PM
Uh.

Everything into Dex and Str.

And... yeah, there's really not much to say. Just standard weapon enchants at that point. Archery really doesn't get much in D&D without at least one of the following:


Homebrew
Peerless Archer (Silver Marches, minor Faerun book)
Hank's Energy Bow (web enhancement)
Complete Scoundrel (Swift Hunter) + Complete Adventurer (Scout)
Spell Compendium

holywhippet
2009-10-27, 09:27 PM
In core, Barbarians make better archers than Fighters and probably Rangers - let me see...

L1: Point-Blank
L3: Rapid
L6: Precise
L9: Imp. Precise

Yep!

Cleric is still better, but, well. Clerics. -hearty laugh-

Really? I mean they are sort of restricted to medium armour which favours staying back a bit (not much though) but they have such high HP and their rage powers boost strength wheras archery relies on dexterity.

infinitypanda
2009-10-27, 09:27 PM
Not really answering the specific questions you asked, but don't forget that you can enchant ammunition too. Just throwing that out there, since my gaming group always forgets that.

Edit:

Really? I mean they are sort of restricted to medium armour which favours staying back a bit (not much though) but they have such high HP and their rage powers boost strength whereas archery relies on dexterity.

Zen Archery + DMM Persist Divine Power.

Shadwen
2009-10-27, 09:29 PM
Ah that was the thought sorry didnt clarify...i mean ammunition enchants..thinking the bow to get keen if its possible...with the dm.

AstralFire
2009-10-27, 09:33 PM
Really? I mean they are sort of restricted to medium armour which favours staying back a bit (not much though) but they have such high HP and their rage powers boost strength wheras archery relies on dexterity.

Archery requires both dexterity (hit) and strength (damage), which is a third of the reason why it doesn't catch on before supplements.

Archers need two attack stats. Dex Rogues and Two-Handed Greatswords need one.
Archers have no feat chain which largely increases damage - Rapid Shot and Manyshot do not even compare to TWF chain, forget Power Attack.
D&D evokes dungeon crawling, favoring close range encounters, meaning that the ability for an archer to stay 'in the back' isn't that much of an advantage.

Shadwen
2009-10-27, 09:35 PM
So the Archer Barbarian is a fail idea with the books allowed?

AstralFire
2009-10-27, 09:37 PM
So the Archer Barbarian is a fail idea with the books allowed?

No, not really. I mean.

Well.

You'll be about as effective as a sword-and-board or TWF fighter in Core. If you're playing in the sort of campaign that can embrace that, you'll do fine.

As I said, you're better at archery than a core only ranger, because you've got a free source of strength, and you're even going to end up ahead on attacks per round if you take the Whirling Frenzy SRD variant.

Shadwen
2009-10-27, 09:40 PM
Well on the offset what would you suggest i play? i dont care what it is. Just want a good setup. Im used to all books..so easy to choose..What do you suggest for such a limited game?

AstralFire
2009-10-27, 09:41 PM
Well on the offset what would you suggest i play? i dont care what it is. Just want a good setup. Im used to all books..so easy to choose..What do you suggest for such a limited game?

I suggest whatever is appropriate for your game's power level. If you don't know what that'll be, I always find the Bard is an effective choice. If you're playing in a low power game, it's really not hard to bring the Bard down; if you're playing in a high power game, the Bard can keep contributing to a group with Wizards, Clerics and Druids who aren't trying to break the game until you get to the highest levels.

Shadwen
2009-10-27, 09:42 PM
Thank you for that...ill get to reading on that.

Mando Knight
2009-10-27, 09:46 PM
Regardless of the build, I doubt any serious melee player would go into a game without at least a standard shortbow so long as they had the wealth available for it. Most would go for a composite longbow at their strength bonus if they can afford it, I believe...

Not because it's optimal, but because not all flying opponents can cast Protection from Arrows.

AstralFire
2009-10-27, 09:48 PM
I usually don't bring a bow along as a melee character, but that owes to my tendency to prefer specialists; a lot of them are more art than martial, be it for ethical or aesthetic reasons, so they wouldn't bring along such. Every now and then I go for a Link-style jack-of-all-trades, master-of-one, though.

AstralFire
2009-10-27, 10:01 PM
Aside from the fact that C. Adv isn't in the allowed list, I'm going to have to double check, but I don't think Brutal Throw does much for shooting stuff.

Faleldir
2009-10-27, 10:01 PM
Couldn't you wait two seconds for me to edit my post?

AstralFire
2009-10-27, 10:03 PM
I'm killing time until my tummy stops hurting and I have the board on fast refresh. No. :smallyuk:

Shadwen
2009-10-27, 10:09 PM
Please refer to the bard post for any further comments.