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LibraryOgre
2009-10-28, 01:31 PM
I'm trying to locate a fairly specific type of game... not as concerned about the title as it having the systems I'm wanting.

1) Well-suited to generic, slightly human-centric, fantasy.
2) Skill-based advancement, rather than level based advancement.
3) Condition track instead of HP.
4) Magic that is present, but not prevalent; wizards have reasons that they don't rule the world. Preferably, the reasons relate more to magical physics and exhaustion/available power than corruption-style mechanics.

BRC
2009-10-28, 01:37 PM
Except that it's Fantasy/cyberpunk instead of standard fantasy, I'd say Shadowrun should be spot-on. I suppose you could Fantasyize shadowrun (I think they did that actually, look up Earthdawn) though.

Characters progress with Skills. There are no classes or levels.
As you take damage you start taking penalties, rather than being just fine till you hit 0Hp.
Magic is present, but rare. Anytime a spell is cast the caster must resist Drain, stun damage. Casting too many spells that are too powerful can knock you unconscious, or kill you. Also, spells are limited enough that a caster can get dropped fairly easily by a bullet to the face (No protection from arrows or anything like that). Because Stun damage provides penalties to both spellcasting and drain resistance tests, Drain can be a major issue in combat (Throwing one spell makes it harder to throw others).

Edwin
2009-10-28, 01:39 PM
I'm trying to locate a fairly specific type of game... not as concerned about the title as it having the systems I'm wanting.

1) Well-suited to generic, slightly human-centric, fantasy.
2) Skill-based advancement, rather than level based advancement.
3) Condition track instead of HP.
4) Magic that is present, but not prevalent; wizards have reasons that they don't rule the world. Preferably, the reasons relate more to magical physics and exhaustion/available power than corruption-style mechanics.

Not sure if you want something that's got a lot of options and complexity, but I recall an interesting, rules light system called Adventure RPG.

Magic was, while pretty damn good with things like enlarge and shrink, but taxed you heavily due to the fact that it required HP, which it still used, to fuel it.

So, yeah, it uses HP, but it's "roll 1dx+constitution", but rather based on solely on your stats. As far as advancement goes, it doesn't have levels either, rather, every time you successfully use a skill twelve times, you get a chance to advance that skill by one.

Here's (http://www.1km1kt.net/rpg/adventure-rpg) a link.

LibraryOgre
2009-10-28, 01:47 PM
Except that it's Fantasy/cyberpunk instead of standard fantasy, I'd say Shadowrun should be spot-on. I suppose you could Fantasyize shadowrun (I think they did that actually, look up Earthdawn) though.

Characters progress with Skills. There are no classes or levels.
As you take damage you start taking penalties, rather than being just fine till you hit 0Hp.
Magic is present, but rare. Anytime a spell is cast the caster must resist Drain, stun damage. Casting too many spells that are too powerful can knock you unconscious, or kill you. Also, spells are limited enough that a caster can get dropped fairly easily by a bullet to the face (No protection from arrows or anything like that). Because Stun damage provides penalties to both spellcasting and drain resistance tests, Drain can be a major issue in combat (Throwing one spell makes it harder to throw others).

Shadowrun is actually pretty close to what I want, now that I think about it. The problems I think I'm going to run into are Adepts and Initiation... it's already quite possible to overshadow mundanes with it, and if you can't make some of that with cyberware, it will get worse; while Earthdawn (which used a different system) does this by making everyone an adept, I'd also like to avoid that... it doesn't fit in with the "magic is rare" POV I'm going for if most adventurers are magicians.

BRC
2009-10-28, 01:49 PM
Shadowrun is actually pretty close to what I want, now that I think about it. The problems I think I'm going to run into are Adepts and Initiation... it's already quite possible to overshadow mundanes with it, and if you can't make some of that with cyberware, it will get worse; while Earthdawn (which used a different system) does this by making everyone an adept, I'd also like to avoid that... it doesn't fit in with the "magic is rare" POV I'm going for if most adventurers are magicians.
Then drop Adepts from the game. Boom, problem solved. If you wanna use magic, you gotta deal with drain, and with the worldwide combat doctrine of "Shoot the caster first"

Totally Guy
2009-10-28, 01:54 PM
Burning Wheel fulfils those criteria. Take a look at some reviews (http://www.burningwheel.org/wiki/index.php?title=Category:Awards_and_Reviews) about it.

I've found it to be rather crunch heavy compared to my usual tastes but it presents a new way of looking at RPGs in general that I'm really liking.

The GM isn't quite as all powerful as in D&D. For example...

"I test my Circles (like contacts/gather information) to find the mayor's mistress"
"Ok, that's an obstacle 6 check"
"Six successes!"
"Ok, you find her."

The GM hadn't even considered the prospect of the mayor having a mistress until the player asked to look. His power was in setting the right obstacle number.

The players are required to take on a bit of GM responsibility themselves. They've got to find plots they want to find.

Combat is interesting, it's based on scripting actions you want to do whilst the opponent does the same. The moves then resolve simultaneously. If I scripted Feint and my opponent scripted Block I'd have an undefendable attack against him. If I scripted Feint and my opponent scripted Strike, then I'd be in trouble.

There's a social mechanic that works in a similar manner. So much better that diplomacying someone.

And if you're after something a little lighter there's Mouse Guard, which is way easier to learn (but there's no magic). I have some issues with a couple of the mechanics but all my dislikes were retroactively fixed in the Burning Wheel system on which it's based.

jmbrown
2009-10-28, 02:14 PM
I'm trying to locate a fairly specific type of game... not as concerned about the title as it having the systems I'm wanting.

1) Well-suited to generic, slightly human-centric, fantasy.
2) Skill-based advancement, rather than level based advancement.
3) Condition track instead of HP.
4) Magic that is present, but not prevalent; wizards have reasons that they don't rule the world. Preferably, the reasons relate more to magical physics and exhaustion/available power than corruption-style mechanics.

You basically just described Savage Worlds in its entirety.

LibraryOgre
2009-10-28, 02:17 PM
You basically just described Savage Worlds in its entirety.

Problem is that I've never found a copy of Savage Worlds... anywhere.

And it is not arguing in Pinnacle's favor that their website seems to be optimized for larger than my screen, and defaults to yellow text on a white background.

jmbrown
2009-10-28, 02:34 PM
Yeah, their website seems to be busted at the moment but the store button still works. You can buy directly from them or on amazon. There's only one core book, it's a nice portable size, softcover, $10.

Raum
2009-10-28, 08:45 PM
I'm trying to locate a fairly specific type of game... not as concerned about the title as it having the systems I'm wanting.

1) Well-suited to generic, slightly human-centric, fantasy.
2) Skill-based advancement, rather than level based advancement.
3) Condition track instead of HP.
4) Magic that is present, but not prevalent; wizards have reasons that they don't rule the world. Preferably, the reasons relate more to magical physics and exhaustion/available power than corruption-style mechanics.I'm going to second Savage Worlds. It's point buy & advancement, uses 'Wound' and 'Fatigue' condition tracks (3 wounds, 2 fatigue), and magic isn't overpowering. Specifically, I'd suggest looking at the Hellfrost, 50 Fathoms, and / or Shaintar settings. Shaintar is reasonably close to Faerun, 50 Fathoms is a fantasy water world, and Hellfrost is a grittier setting closer to WFRP in flavor.

More info on Savage Worlds:
Savage Worlds (SW) is a core system at a 'pulp' level of power. (PCs are "Big Damn Heroes" but getting stuck with a pointy stick or a knife still hurts.)

Combat is very tactical (frontal attacks are often a Bad IdeaTM) and includes rules for "Tricks" and "Tests of Will" which allow characters to a) do cool cinematic stuff, b) help take out extremely tough opponents, and c) give non combat-oriented characters effective potential actions. (A Trick might be throwing sand in an opponent's eyes. The mechanical result is him being 'Shaken' and possibly (not certainly) losing an action to 'get the sand out of his eyes'. While he is Shaken, your allies will find it easier to attack and hurt him. So tactics can make a big difference!) Other tactics include everything from using terrain and cover to Called Shots or getting 'The Drop' on some one.

Mechanically, SW uses a die step system to represent abilities and skills (Traits). A weak PC might have d4 Strength and a strong one d10 or even d12 (d12 is normal human maximum). The core resolution mechanic is take the best of Trait roll and Wild Die roll and compare to target number (default is 4) for success. Only PCs and Wild Card (boss) NPCs use a Wild Die. Minions or minor NPCs only roll a Trait die which significantly reduces their chances of success even if the Traits are equal. It's part of what makes PC Big Damn Heroes but, since NPCs may still have the same skill, it still hurts when they do connect. It also makes Edges (similar to D&D feats) extremely important to characters. In many ways, Edges and Hindrances are what define a character mechanically. Their ability and skill ratings are secondary. For example, a burglar with the Thief edge is sneakier than a burglar without it even if the other burglar has one or two dice higher in his Stealth skill.

Savage World's core system is intended to be customized. Savage Worlds Explorer's Edition (SWEX) is nearly all mechanics and no setting or 'flavor' text. Those you'll find in the setting books. Take the "Bolt" power as one example; SWEX simply gives you the mechanics - range, damage, and cost but the settings books customize it to fit - 50 Fathoms, for example, "Bolt" may become a "Fire Bolt" which generates a stream of tiny fire elementals slamming into your target...with the range, damage, and cost from SWEX. Similarly, many elements of the core system are intended to be customized for your campaign and setting.
If you're interested, you can check out the 'Test Drive' here (http://www.peginc.com/downloads.html) or the $10 core system here (http://www.amazon.com/Savage-Worlds-Explorers-S2P10010-Staff/dp/0979245567/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1256780898&sr=8-3). Do note that's the core system, it is rules only. Unless you're planning on creating your own setting you'll also want to pick up one of the setting books.


And it is not arguing in Pinnacle's favor that their website seems to be optimized for larger than my screen, and defaults to yellow text on a white background.Are you sure you're going to the correct site (http://www.peginc.com/)? I see white text on a red background...