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Thefurmonger
2009-10-28, 02:36 PM
Hi all,

For those of you who have not been keeping up I will be starting a Realms campaign in Waterdeep soon.

The party is NOT optimised

Human MT
Elf Duskblade
Dwarf Rogue
Human Barbarian/Fighter

And my Character

A Human Beguiler

We are starting at lvl1 and I plan do go all beguiller except the standard 1 lvl dip into MB to get Mindsight at 6th.

Anyway, the skills I will have are

Bluff
Diplomacy
Gather Info
Concentration (Could drop if I have to)
Spot (Tho with a -4 due to a flaw)
Slight of hand
Sense Motive
UMD (WOOT!)
Speak Language
Knowlege Local
Knowlege Nobility/Royalty
Appraise

Feats at 1st

Spell Focus Enchantment
Nymph's Kiss (DM dropped the non-good from mindbender)
Mercantile Background (Regional Feat from FR)

At third im picking up

Obtain Famillier (Thinking Raven)


Anyway, my question is this. what equipment should I be looking for? Any Wizzards sorce should be fine.

Keep in mind that due to mercantile background I can sell stuff and get 75% not 50%, and once a month can buy any one item at 75% of asking price.

Thanks for the continuing help.

Myrmex
2009-10-28, 02:44 PM
If your DM will allow it, get masterwork items that will give you +2 circumstance bonus on skill checks.

At low levels, I like to carry a longspear, a morningstar, daggers (usually hid in different places), a crossbow, alchemical fire & acid, lots of rope, lantern oil, tindertwigs, sun sticks, smoke rods, tanglefoot bags, thunderstones, and scentbreaker (from complete adventurer I think). These can be used to solve a lot of problems at low levels that you won't have the spells to use on, and give you something more useful to do than plunk with crossbow bolt 1/round. If you can afford them, level 0 and level 1 scrolls of utility spells will be useful. Comb through books for good 0 & first level spells. Having a scroll of Nerveskitter handy can be a lifesaver when you absolutely must go first.

You should look into getting the Darkstalker feat when you qualify for it.

Oh, and you should get Ray of Stupidity as a spell known. It puts dangerous animals into comas

Thefurmonger
2009-10-28, 04:50 PM
All good ideas, thank you.

Can you guys think of any good magic items that would really help?

Anything for a 1st-10th ish character would be great.

Paul H
2009-10-28, 06:17 PM
Hi

Master crafted Thieves Tools at char creation.
Headbands of Intellect at every level
Periapt of Health for HP
Cloak Charisma for those Feint in combat abilities

Raiment of the Four (MIC Pg 204) 19,100GP for full set

Full set allows you to spont Fireballs, Magic Missiles, Teleports, Freedom of Movement. Also grants Resistance 5 vs Cold/Electric/Fire, and Commune spell 1/day.
Oh - and immune to Blindness & Dazzling, plus more........ :smallcool:

Cheers
Paul H
PS - Grey Elf Beguilers are rock hard because of racial mods for searching, etc. Add Familiar & 'Alertness' for even more cheese.
PPS You can meet prereqs for Nightmare Spinner at 6th lvl.

Myrmex
2009-10-28, 06:33 PM
Don't waste your time with feinting. Between hide as a class skill, access to blinding effects, and having invisibility on your spell list, if you're in melee, you're doing it wrong. Also probably dead.

I like vests of resistance, as they stay cheap as long as it's +1 or +2, gloves of dex if you can afford it, and a ring of protection +1. These will get your touch AC up, which a lot of nasty things go after, like ghosts or rays. A heandband of intellect should also be one of the first things you get.

Eternal wands can be extremely useful. Look at spells you'd cast once/day that don't depend on caster level or a save, like knock.

A belt of healing is a very cheap item for quick, in battle healing. Get a wand of lesser vigor, but make the whole party chip in on it. That's only 750 gp, so should be available quickly. Don't waste gold on potions. Get everyone to buy betls of healing. That way you can UMD the wand and be party healer, outside of combat of course. The sooner you buy belts of healing, the faster they pay themselves off.

As you can afford them, buy eternal wands of things like Fly and Gust of Wind, as you will use them frequently over the course of 10 levels, but not frequently enough to blow the cash on an actual wand. Fly can easily see use every day. Since you are good at hiding, it'd be best on the barbarian. The Duskblade can swift fly himself. If anyone is making use of trip, grapple, or disarm, an eternal wand of enlarge person is a great investment. An eternal wand of shrink person is also really sweet, as that will increase your hide modifier by +5 (!!!).

Boots of elvenkind/cloak of elvenkind also go without saying.
Eyes of the Eagle are great for spotting enemies.

I recommend putting one point into search & disable device. As long as you can roll a ten on the check, you can add +2 to the rogue's actual check (aid another). Throw in your raven familiar, and that's +4 to that stuff. Between your MW tools and high int, you should practically auto-roll tens.

Actually, looking back over your skills, your failure to put any in hide/move silently make you far less effective. I would change that. Also, listen is more efficacious than spot, in that you can get hide checks FAR higher than spot checks (between size changes & spells), but move silent checks are largely tied to HD & dex.

Spot only works when the DM wants you to actually have a chance of something sneaking up on you.

Definitely keep concentration.

Paul H
2009-10-28, 06:42 PM
Hi

And another good Feat is Unsettling Enchantment (CM Pg 48) target gains -2 penalty to attacks AC for 1 rnd.

Also in Complete Mage is Eldritch Theurge. Full CL for both Warlock & Beguiler

Just suggestion ONLY:

1) Beguiler, SF Enchants [Unsettling Enchant - Bonus Human feat]
2) Warlock, All Seeing Eyes (CM Pg 123). +6 Search & Spot. Comp Langs for written only. (lasts 24 hrs as Warlock ability)
3) Beguiler, Practiced Spellcaster Warlock
4) Beguiler
5) Beguiler
6) Eldritch Theurge [DR 1/Cold Iron] [See the Unseen - Darkvision & See Invis as Warlock ability]

Etc.
By Lvl 10 you've got spells as Beguiler 9. Abilities of Warlock 6 (CL 10)
You're not nerfed by creatures immune to Illusions or enchants. (Just blast them).
Suggested Warlock abilities (last 24 hrs each)
All Seeing Eyes (+6 Bonus to Search, Spot,. Also Comp Langs for written material)
See the Unseen (Darkvision & See Invis)
Beguiling Influence (+6 bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate)
Fell Flight (Fly with Good maneuvreablity)

Eldritch Blast does 5D6
Downside - Not a Skill Monkey any more...

Cheers
Paul H

Paul H
2009-10-28, 06:46 PM
Hi

And I Totally agree with the Healing belt/Wand lssr Vigor suggestion......

Cheers
Paul H

Myrmex
2009-10-28, 06:46 PM
I don't recommend multiclassing out of Beguiler, except as a dip into Mindbender to nab some knowledge skills as in class and for Telepathy. Giving up the beguiler's skills really weakens him.

Picking up skills you'll use a lot, and have a serious impact on the game, like hide, move silently, bluff, and diplomacy, will make you much more powerful than stuff like appraise or sleight of hand. Concentration & Spellcraft are necessary so you can cast spells while threatened and identify enemy spells.

[edit]
As for "being useless" in combat against zombies/golems/mindblank (hope not!), you have things at your disposal like Solid Fog, Haste, Glitterdust, and Slow, as well as illusions. You can also use your eternal wands of "buff party fighter" in these situations. If you DM wants you to play through an undead campaign, I would recommend against beguiler, but he'll still work better than the rogue.

Paul H
2009-10-28, 07:11 PM
Hi

I agree to some point about the skill choices, that's why the PrC grants large bonuses to key skills, plus allows flight, darkvision, see invis, all without using a single spell slot, usable at will, and last 24 hrs.

(You should hopefully never need the DR/Cold Iron)!

Solid Fog hinders the party attacking, undead & constructs are immune to mind affecting spells. My 10th lv Beguiler Cohort is reduced to just Haste, Mage Armour & Freedom of Movement buffs against undead, plus the Slow debuff. Then it's "Go team" from the sidelines.

Against 'thinking' foes he tends to dominate the battle. (Party 12-14th lvl).

Just a thought...
Paul H

Leewei
2009-10-28, 07:24 PM
Stuff you want:

Mesmerist's Gloves

Whatever the item is that bumps your Enchantment save DCs up by 2 (some sort of veil?).

Cloak of Lesser Displacement (Concealment is nice; immunity to Sneak Attack is awesome).

Headband of Intellect (as high as you can get it -- for bonus spells and save DCs).

Rods of Metamagic, especially Widen.

Leon
2009-10-28, 07:25 PM
Anyway, my question is this. what equipment should I be looking for? Any Wizzards sorce should be fine.


A Half Brick in a Sock

Thurbane
2009-10-28, 09:22 PM
A few suggestions from the MIC (not all may be in your price range yet):

Eternal Wands (460gp - 10900gp): cast an arcane spell not on your list 2/day, no UMD roll required
Gloves of The Starry Sky (1100gp): swap out a spell slot for Magic Missile 3/day
Goggles of the Golden Sun (4000gp): swap out a spell slot for Fireball 3/day
Belt of the Wide Earth (8000gp): swap out a spell slot for Teleport 2/day
Robe of Mysterious Conjuration (10000gp): swap out a spell slot for a Summon Monster spell of the same level 3/day

mcl01
2009-10-28, 10:13 PM
Just a note: Eldritch Theurge has higher reqs than Paul posted.

You need +2d6 eldritch blast damage, so you need 3 levels of warlock. Also, as a spontaneous caster, you don't get 2nd level spells until Beguiler 4. That puts you at Beguiler 4/Warlock 3/Eldritch Theurge X.

At level 10, that's only 7th level Beguiler casting (not 9th) and 6th level warlock abilities. That's 3rd level spells when you could have access to 5th level spells. Also, your eldritch blast only does 3d6, not 5d6 unless I'm missing something.

Thefurmonger
2009-10-29, 02:57 PM
Hey Guys thanks for all the advice.

Ill look to pick up some pieces from the Raiment of the Four ASAP, o really want the gloves and the belt.

I think I'm gonna stick with just Beguiller5/MB1/Beg 6+ as i need the skills.

Again, great ideas and a big thank you.

Tyger
2009-10-30, 06:43 AM
Against 'thinking' foes he tends to dominate the battle. (Party 12-14th lvl).

Don't sell him short against the unthinking ones either. Illusions can be very powerful things against undead and mindless creatures. They have no reason to disbelieve them (i.e. they aren't smart enough to question what they see) so the power of these spells against them is potent indeed. Our party Beguiler, at low, low levels, was a force indeed against skeletons and zombies. Not that he directly killed them, but he stopped them (illusions of walls all around them, so they had no targets), tricked them into running off cliffs (illusions of solid ground across a canyon with us on the other side making noises), etc, etc. Beguilers do excel against "thinking" opponents, but they can certainly, and cleverly, contribue in any circumstance.

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-10-30, 09:23 AM
I'll agree with the Raiment of the Four, another good choice would be a Circlet of Rapid Casting. There's no reason not to get a +1 Mithral Buckler as soon as you can afford it, there's no armor check penalty or nonproficiency penalties and 0% ASF.

Definitely consider picking up the feat Versatile Spellcaster in Races of the Dragon. It allows you to spend two spell slots of the same level to cast any spell you know of one level higher. Depending on how your DM wants to rule it, this may give you early access to the next higher level of spells. In that case I'd get it at 1st level to be able to cast 2nd level spells from the start, plus you'll be able to get higher level spells via Expanded Knowledge. If not, it's still extremely useful to have but not necessarily a first pick. If you take the feat Arcane Disciple, Versatile Spellcaster will definitely grant you access to the next higher level of spells, as well as giving you access to some otherwise unavailable spells. Good domain choices would include Storm, Cold, Summoner, Travel, and maybe even the Animal domain combined with the feat Spontaneous Summoner to get Summon Nature's Ally 1-9. In that case, get a Ring of the Beast from Complete Champion, and even cast from your highest level spell slot it will count as one level higher thanks to Versatile Spellcaster. If you pick Summoner, consider jumping into Thaumaturgist, which with Versatile Spellcaster would allow you to get a Ghaele Eladrin as your planar cohort as early as level 11.

Thefurmonger
2009-10-30, 07:57 PM
Sorry for not replying sooner guys, got busy.

Anyway again, a HUGE thank you to everyone.

One question I missed somehow was why I did not take any ranks in Hide or MS when I did put ranks in things like Appraise.

I assumed that with access to Silence and Invis I would be golden when it came to sneeking, same thing with Open Lock and Knock.

The character is set up as a Merchant in Waterdeep, as such Appraise (with the help of my raven at 3rd) will be verry handy. Toss in Mercantile Background and I SHOULD be all set. (Famous last words I know)

The Mithril Buckler idea is AWSOME, I will do so ASAP.

Keep em comeing guys this stuff is gold, I cant beleive how much CHEEP good stuff there is out there.

Paul H
2009-10-31, 10:53 PM
Hi

Actually my Eldritch Theurge setup IS accurate.

The extra Eldritc Blast damage is gained by Practiced Spellcaster (Warlock), so Beguiler4/Warlock 1/EldTheurgexxx is a doable build.

Cheers
Paul H
(Who was recently playing Beguiler 4/Warlock 1/Eld Theurge 3)

Myrmex
2009-10-31, 11:00 PM
Sorry for not replying sooner guys, got busy.

Anyway again, a HUGE thank you to everyone.

One question I missed somehow was why I did not take any ranks in Hide or MS when I did put ranks in things like Appraise.

I assumed that with access to Silence and Invis I would be golden when it came to sneeking, same thing with Open Lock and Knock.

The character is set up as a Merchant in Waterdeep, as such Appraise (with the help of my raven at 3rd) will be verry handy. Toss in Mercantile Background and I SHOULD be all set. (Famous last words I know)

The Mithril Buckler idea is AWSOME, I will do so ASAP.

Keep em comeing guys this stuff is gold, I cant beleive how much CHEEP good stuff there is out there.

If you use invisibility a lot, the DM will give opponents a way to see through it. It is very easy to get ways to circumvent your invisibility. Also, if you put yourself in a cloud of silence, you get a 20% failure chance on casting your spells, too.

Put one or two ranks into appraise, but you should definitely not pump it. It is a totally useless skill.

Paul H
2009-11-01, 09:49 PM
Hi

Superior Invis is difficult to overcome, and as for being Silenced - that's why Beguilers get Still & Silent Spell feats.

Had some brilliant times with my Beguiler - a drunken yob apologising to his tankard after it screamed "Ouch" when used as an improvised weapon is still a classic.
(Ventriloquism taken at 3rd level Advanced learning).

Used carefully can be far more entertaining & destructive than Warmages.
"It wasn't me -it was him, Honest! Would I lie to you officer....."! :smallbiggrin:

Cheers
Paul H
(Big Beguiler Fan)

Thurbane
2009-11-02, 12:39 AM
When your Beguiler hits level 6 you'll get Zone of Silence: lasts 1 hour/level, and you can cast in it normally. :smallsmile: