Races 3.5

[Shadwen]

Warforged is it good or bad...and if good why and what classes/feats fit with it?


If it is bad tell me why, and what would make it better.

[LibraryOgre]

4e? I'm enjoying mine, though you need to watch out, as they have stat bonuses in the same category. The inability to die due to failed saves is nice.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

If 3.5, you're looking at a laundry list of immunities and a decent stat spread for melee. Not to mention a lot of cool/powerful racial feats and sub levels.

[Shadwen]

Keep it up...im trying to adjust them and other races/classes for my upcoming dnd game.. need yalls help.

[arguskos]

They're commonly accepted to be fine and balanced as they are, near as I can tell.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Keep it up...im trying to adjust them and other races/classes for my upcoming dnd game.. need yalls help.What's the power baseline? Human, Lesser Aasimar, Dorf, or half-elf?

[Shadwen]

Im using Core + PHB2 + Ebboron


game is gonna be with a bunch of new ppl to the game and i want to spice it up for them.

[Myrmex]

I like them. I think they're on par with dwarves & humans, beat half-orcs, elves (not the OP variant caster elves), and half-elves hands down.

Small races have the advantage of being small, thus getting to ride around indoors, hide better, get hit less, etc.

Warforged suffer from not benefiting from healing magic very well and having trouble using magic items that are found. They are super good at low levels, with adamantium body. DR 3/- and +8 armor are AWESOME. Great tanks.

They're a little hamstrung on their options for classes, as their penalties and needing a 1st level feat to change their armor, ties them mostly to chunkier melee builds.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Im using Core + PHB2 + Ebboron


game is gonna be with a bunch of new ppl to the game and i want to spice it up for them.That says nothing. Core has both Humans and half-elves.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

They're kind of on the powerful side, really.

Most of their disadvantages can be completely negated by clever spell selection. Sure, you have to blow a feat to cast without ACF, but that's not very difficult, and you can stack up some very obnoxious enchantments on yourself while you are at it.

Warforged make exceedingly nasty tanks, but are also perfectly viable in just about any class role.

Warforged Juggernaught + Barbarian = I never fatigue, so I have no downsides to Raging, and immunity to crits/sneak attacks is handy too. Repair Damage spells function perfectly well, so that's not a major issue.

[Shadwen]

Not sure what you mean humans or half elfs....its in a newbie campaign trying to find what is wrong with them so i can repair a bit so it will be easier on them.

[chiasaur11]

Not sure what you mean humans or half elfs....its in a newbie campaign trying to find what is wrong with them so i can repair a bit so it will be easier on them.

Basically, optimizers find humans as one of the best races for anything (barring insane cheese), and half elves as nearly useless.

I think they're trying to find what other races you'll be working with to determine how well warforged will work in a campaign balance wise.

[Tavar]

Humans are one the strong side in terms of racial power, Half elves are on the weak side. Thus, saying that you want to balance things to core is generally pointless. The general power level of races is Dwarf-Human-Half Elf-Half Orc. Granted, there are specific builds with exceptions.

[Shadwen]

Ah on that note then...half elf leaning towards human...as i said they have never played...i will give them the books..and let them go at it...i doubt they know how to optimize and such..so shall be a fun game not a power game.

[Myrmex]

I thought it was human dwarf/halfling/gnome half orc half elf?

Even with all the splat books out there, humans are pretty close to the top.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

I thought it was human dwarf/halfling/gnome half orc half elf?

Even with all the splat books out there, humans are pretty close to the top.

Halflings are over dwarves by a good bit, because of Small Size making it harder to hit, and the +Dex to boot. They are particularly powerful as casters, who never use a physical attack anyways, so don't care about the die size reduction.

[Myrmex]

Halflings are over dwarves by a good bit, because of Small Size making it harder to hit, and the +Dex to boot. They are particularly powerful as casters, who never use a physical attack anyways, so don't care about the die size reduction.

I can see that. Getting to ride mounts in doors is pretty sweet. I'd still put gnomes & dwarves at the same tier, though.

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Specifically for casters in core: Human>Gnome>Halfling>Dorf(non-sorcerer)>Elf>(start of sucking) half-elf>half-orc.
For melee: Dorf>Human>half-orc>(start of sucking) gnome>half-elf>halfling>elf
For skills: Human>halfling>gnome>Dorf>elf>(start of sucking) half-elf>half-orc

There are few benefits as good as a free feat, whereas half-elves get nothing.

[Myrmex]

I would put gnome and halfling either at or above human for inside core melee. There's not a whole lot that will get you x3 damage on a charge. That being said, yeah, not the greatest of melee.

[Shadwen]

Ok, how did we get off the topic that much?

[Myrmex]

Ok, how did we get off the topic that much?

In order for you to know where the warforged is powerwise, you should be aware of where other things are powerwise.

[KitsuneKionchi]

Eberron includes 3 other races you know...

And Halflings in Eberron get Boomerang Daze...

[Shadwen]

true about the power knowledge...but what about the warforge? where do they lack? where do they have too much? such as the humans..they get feat and skills...its alot of a boost...i want them leaning towards gnome i think..right int he middle

[FMArthur]

Don't make modifications to warforged. You're introducing a complicated issue to a game with newbies. You have absolutely nothing to fear by leaving them as-is.

[Myrmex]

Humans are great because they work for ANY class. A human rogue, wizard, or barbarian will all work, and you won't have to struggle to make it work.

A warforged rogue is going to be a bit hardier, but have difficulty sneaking without burning a feat at first level. The halfling or gnome rogue took TWF at first level, and is cutting everything up while flanking.

Warforged really excel in martial roles- barbarian, fighter, paladin, especially when they come with full adamantine plate at level one. But I think level 1 melee needs that sort of help.

Virtually all their abilities are geared towards defense, though. They're not going to kill things faster; just last longer. And that's the sort of balance I prefer. Glass cannons die too quickly, or end encounters too quickly. They're harder to calibrate against as a DM.

You should probably give half elf & half orc a buff. I would give half orc powerful build (the offensive half of warforged). I think elves are stupid, so I would probably stab the half-elf in the face and call it a day.

The two small races, as stated above, have great niches in skillmonkey, caster, and mounted warrior roles.

Human and dwarf both make good casters, as well as melee types. You can't go wrong with a dwarf cleric.

Elves are also rather weak. There are some variants in the Monster Manual, the notable one being the gray elf. That gives +2 int, so it's an obvious choice for wizard.

At very low levels, the free weapon proficiency can sort of matter, as they get slightly bigger weapon dice.

If I were to make a cleric in your game, I would go with human or dwarf. If I did melee, I would probably small race on a mount, or warforged with adamantine body. And caster would probably be halfling, human, or warforged.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Easy fix? Warforged are LA +1. Done.

[Shadwen]

Ok Warforged Done! What about the other races, what would make the other races fair? More towards the Human, so everyone will be on same terms..Help em out here!

[Draken]

Easy fix? Warforged are LA +1. Done.

What?

---

On to Warforged. They are pretty nice, interesting race. Not too strong, not too weak. Plus they save you 2500 gold from a Ring of Sustenance or several silver in hassle with things like rations. Or small issues like breathing. Great night guards too because they don't have to sleep.

On the less tanky side of character creation. Warforged are somewhat lacking in the area of spellcasting. From the arcane side of things... They have ASF. From the divine... A penalty to Wis and Cha.

They do, however, make nice Psions. Specially with the stuff from Magic of Eberron (Psiforged Body, Psionic Warforged Components). As a plus, a Warforged Psion can learn Psionic Repair Damage.

[Tavar]

If you want the other races to be more in line with humans, leave all but the half-elf, half orc, and Elf alone.

For Half orcs, give the players a choice about whether their half orcs get -2 Int or Cha.

[Myrmex]

Ok Warforged Done! What about the other races, what would make the other races fair? More towards the Human, so everyone will be on same terms..Help em out here!

Humans should get LA +1, too.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Ok Warforged Done! What about the other races, what would make the other races fair? More towards the Human, so everyone will be on same terms..Help em out here!

Half-Elves... give them the +1 Skill points that the Humans have, representing versitility, and the ability to auto-detect secret/concealed doors within 5' from the elves.

Half-Orcs... a bit harder, really. Yes, they are underpowered, but doing too much will make them overpowered. Maybe remove the Charisma penalty or something. Intimidate is a Charisma-based skill, after all. I can't help but wonder why half-orcs are less intimidating than a human of equal skill...

As for the rest? Leave 'em be. They're all solid options

[TheWerdna]

For half elves i just give them a Bonus Feat but , Diplomacy and Gather into now a +1 instead of +2

Half Orcs, as said above jusst remove the -2 to Cha

[Nai_Calus]

Just give half-elves, half-orcs and elves -1 LA.

[jiriku]

For new players, leave all the races as-is. The power difference between races is pitiful and insignificant next to the power difference between classes.

Instead, spend all of your time and effort helping the new players learn the fundamental rule mechanics. Help them prepare feat cards and spell cards; bookmark the PHB so they can quickly find rules for charging, grappling, and tripping; create quick-reference cards for common skill tables like jumping, climbing, and balancing.

[Riffington]

Humans are supposed to be the most powerful race without an LA. It's a conscious decision. That said, warforged work fine as is mechanically. The main questions you'll want to answer before including them are:
*do you want robots or does it break your fantasy? If you like em include em.
*is their difficulty-with-healing going to be an issue for your party? It can be a problem for newbies. It doesn't really need to be though.

[Shadwen]

Half orc has lost the -cha cha and the helf has gained +1 skill per level and bonus 25 gp and can detect hidden passagways.

that sound good?