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View Full Version : A question of Tome [3.5, TOB, MV]



Mulletmanalive
2009-10-29, 08:55 PM
Oddly enough, i've figured out what it was that always urked me about the tome of battle: it's the classes, not the mechanics or manoeuvres. Anyway, i've opted to include Martial stuff at least peripherally in my Victorian Steampunk setting; the difference being that aside from trying to working out a suitable replacement for the Monk class , i don't want to use the tome classes

I'd like some PEACHing for this idea, bearing in mind that i've somewhat culled magic from the game and that i can't really include Stone Dragon for mechanical reasons [armour in my game grants Hardness, obviously they won't mix well...]

Mechanics:
The majority of the Mechanics behind Manoeuvres remains unchanged, save for their recovery. Based on a Student's place on the path of Novice, Disciple and Master, a character must wait a period of time between using Manoeuvres.

Using a Manoeuvre or adopting a Stance requires a dice to be rolled:
1d4 for Novices
1d3 for Disciples
1d2 for Masters

This is the number of endphases that the character must wait before he can use another manoeuvre [the endphase is actually part of a standard 3.5 turn, it's just not actually mentioned again once it's introduced] so a roll of 1 allows a Manoeuvre to be used on the next turn.

There is a limit to this, however: Under no circumstaces may an Adept use the same Manoeuvre twice in a row. There is an exception to this, but burn the above statement into your mind.

Learning Manoeuvres:
In order to learn Martial Manoeuvres, which in this context are mystical abilities, a candidate must locate and petition the Master of their Discipline. These individuals are unique and powerful creatures that may or may not be the source of the powers that their disciples wield.

The Masters and their locations are as follows [these are examples for MV's "real world." Feel free to assume that these are just suggestions of the kind of places such masters may be found]:
Black Rain: Wild Bill Hickok, Ghost: To be found drunk in his chair at Nuttal and Mann's in Deadwood under a full moon. One must be dealt a Deadman's hand [any of the noted combinations] and fold to him to gain his respect.
Desert Wind: Laqir, Efreeti Fakir: A hidden Oasis in the sands of Arabia that can only be found while dying of thirst.
Devoted Spirit: Elohim, Angel: Inside a cave on Golgotha that is only present when a red sun touches the horizon.
Diamond Mind: Jingang Shen, the Diamond Immortal: Atop Tientai [Mount Heaven] at noon when the sky is clear.
Iron Heart: I dont' really know this style to comment...
Setting Sun: Bodhidharma, the mad sage: In a specific Pure Realm, reachable only through Buddhist meditation in a cave at the temple of new forest [Shao Lin].
Shadow Hand: Dhakhini Prajnamudra: In a cave in India where the meeting of sea and the land and light and dark coincides perfectly at noon.
Tiger Claw: Lani, Lost Raksasha of Borneo: Can be found only by becoming truly lost on Borneo. In context, that actually means being in a position where you have no idea where you are and cannot reach a place where you can see the stars.
White Raven: Gaud's Pet: The current White Raven is a pet kept by Muhammed Gaud, the leader of the Afghan Mujahideen. It is apparently a Tengu, though no-one is willing to confirm or deny this.
Finding the master is only part of the battle, one must demonstrate that you have the stuff necessary to learn the Discipline and hold onto similar values to them. While it is not a mechanical requirement, it is unlikely that a character will be able to survive the journey, let alone convince them of their dedication without being at least 5th level. And no, you can't have the bard do the talking for you!

When a character gains the feat Martial Study; Novice, they learn 2 Manoeuvres of their choice from their Discipline. From now on, whenever they achieve an even number of ranks in Martial Lore, they learn an additional Manoeuvre.

The maximum level of Manoeuvre an Adept may learn is equal to half their ranks in Martial Lore - 1 [(Martial Lore/2)-1].

Readying Manoeuvres:
For my purposes, I'm going to assume that the Manoeuvres are simply those that the character has practiced thoroughly, recently. When prepairing for a mission, an Adept may spend one hour of Preparation Time, to a maximum of 3, replacing one manoeuvre from his Manoeuvres Known list with another from his Discipline of a level that he can use. At any time, he must retain at least one Manoeuvre from each level he is able to use.

Feats:
Martial Study; Novice [Marital]:
[I]You have studied with one of the masters and learned the basics of a martial style, granting you near mythical prowess
Prerequisites: Martial Lore 1 rank, Must have studied with the Master of his Discipline for at least 3 months.
Description: Choose a Martial Discipline. You learn a number of Martial Maneuvres from this Discipline equal to 2 + 1/2 of your ranks in Martial Lore [rounded down]. These abilities may be from the Strike, Boost or Counter categories.

You may use a Manoeuvre 1d4 rounds after you used your previous one , though you may not use the same manoeuvre twice in a row.
Special: To learn this Feat, you must learn from one of the [I]Masters who must be located individually and learned from. When you select this feat, Martial Lore becomes a class skill for you.

Martial Study; Disciple [Martial]:
Your mastery of the forms grows more potent. Few foes can keep up with you.
Prerequisites: Marital Study; Novice, True Form, Martial Lore 6 ranks
Description: Your time on the road of the Path has taught you to combine your moves more effectively. You roll only 1d3 to determine the time you must wait to use your next manoeuvre.

Additionally, once per mission per 3 levels you possess, you may perform a "Finishing Move" of your own devising. You use two Manoeuvres simultaneously using the greater action of the pair to perform both. This does not usually grant extra attacks but both apply simultaneously [so a standard action strike and full action strike uses the full action's number of attacks but adds the benefits of the standard action to one of the strikes in the attack]. If you fail to kill your opponent with this move, you must wait 2d3 rounds before you can use another Manoeuvre and lose your stance, if you are in ont.

Martial Study; Master [Martial]:
So long have you walked the Path that it is now a part of you and you of the Path itself.
Prerequisites: Marital Study; Novice + Disciple, True Form, Martial Lore 14 ranks
Description: You live and breath the Path. You may use Manoeuvres with only a delay of 1d2 rounds between them and learn all of the remaining Stances of your style. Once per mission per 5 levels you possess, you may adopt 2 stances simultaneously, though the strain of doing so deals you 1d3 Subdual damage per round.

Martial Study; Grand Master [Martial]:
There is no Path, others simply find it convenient to believe this.
Prerequisites: Marital Study; Novice + Disciple + Master, True Form, Martial Lore 21 ranks
Description: You ARE the path. You may always use a Manoeuvre each turn. Once per encounter, you may use the same Manoeuvre twice in a row.

Mastered Meditation [Martial]:
You have learned to adapt quickly, having ingrained the Path firmly into your mind.
Prerequisites: Martial Study; Novice, Martial Lore 3 ranks
Description: When you spend Preparation time to swap Manoeuvres, you may trade 3 Manoeuvres per hour spent rather than just one.

True Form [Martial]:
You learn one of the stances of your Discipline, becoming a magical combat machine.
Prerequisites: Martial Study; Novice, Martial Lore 5 ranks
Description: You may choose one stance from your Discipline which you learn and may adopt as one of your Martial Manoeuvre choices; adopting the stance is a Swift action that causes you to roll the dice to see when you may next use a Manoeuvre.
Description: You may select this feat more than once, each time you do, you gain one additional stance from your Discipline.

This is a first stage workup for an idea i had. The basic jist is that while i like the system, i have to keep it under control lest the somewhat d20 Modern influenced rules i use for my game become shattered. I'm considering limiting the progression of Manoeuvre levels to 1/3 ranks in Martial Lore. [The worry is that these abilities often deal a lot of damage and that can mean instant kills with the Massive Damage rules as they are, regardless of level]

If i had to say where Stone Dragon might come from, i'd say it must be learned from Ryōmen Sukuna no Kami; the great demon god of Hida, which is bound in Hida Prefecture. Possibly a reasonable tradeoff for the technological pantsness of Japan in MV i suppose.

Also, is it just me or is it a bit odd that there isn't a throw based Counter in the Setting Sun Discipline? I know you can ready actions but if you do that, you're limited to only the throw on your action...

Temotei
2009-10-29, 09:56 PM
When you say magic is culled, is that including supernatural and spell-like abilities? If not, I can shamelessly advertise my radiant monk to you. Take a look, although I'm not sure it'll fit so well into a steampunk setting.

Also, are you British? Random question, but I looked up manoeuvre, basically it said it's maneuver, but chiefly British.

Mulletmanalive
2009-10-29, 11:46 PM
Yes, I'm British and i've never consciously seen maneuver as a spelling. Probably just blanked it out like i do most Americanisations. Except the "-ization" variant, which is actually the correct way of spelling it [Oddly, we shifted out of paranoia about being considered German spies in the early part of the century].

By "magic is culled" i mean i went for the Buffy approach. Magic circle, chanting, one round per spell level stuff. You can cast spontaneously if you're high level but come 20th level, you could manage 18 spell levels in the encounter. And i altered some of the 9th levels into much higher level spells...

Anything that monkeys with the fabric of reality pretty much doubles its level.

Oh, and it's skill based...

I'll have a look at the monk thingy, but i'll point out, i'm balancing against Trooper :smallbiggrin:

Temotei
2009-11-01, 01:07 AM
Yes, I'm British and i've never consciously seen maneuver as a spelling. Probably just blanked it out like i do most Americanisations. Except the "-ization" variant, which is actually the correct way of spelling it [Oddly, we shifted out of paranoia about being considered German spies in the early part of the century].

Sweet. :smallsmile:


By "magic is culled" i mean i went for the Buffy approach. Magic circle, chanting, one round per spell level stuff. You can cast spontaneously if you're high level but come 20th level, you could manage 18 spell levels in the encounter. And i altered some of the 9th levels into much higher level spells...

Anything that monkeys with the fabric of reality pretty much doubles its level.

Oh, and it's skill based...

Interesting...do you have this somewhere on the board, where I could take a look at it? It sounds intriguing.


I'll have a look at the monk thingy, but i'll point out, i'm balancing against Trooper :smallbiggrin:

Coolness. :smallcool:

The Demented One
2009-11-01, 01:22 AM
Black Rain: Wild Bill Hickok, Ghost: To be found drunk in his chair at Nuttal and Mann's in Deadwood under a full moon. One must be dealt a Deadman's hand [any of the noted combinations] and fold to him to gain his respect.
I am very much a fan of this line.

Eldan
2009-11-01, 06:27 AM
For Iron Hand: perhaps let them find a specific legendary european knight or renaissance duelist? Climb a specific german mountain while armoured, mediate in a secluded chapel, over the grave of a returned crusader for two days without eating anything, then train with the appearing ghost.

Mulletmanalive
2009-11-01, 09:01 AM
Right then:

@Temotei: MV Magic Aether Surge needs changing because at high levels it gives phenomenal cosmic powerTM

@T. Demented One, esq: I'm glad you like it.

@Eldan: Do you have any particular suggestions as to who might be suitable for this role? The discipline seems to be about transcendent skill with arms [or says it is] but i don't have a measure of it...

The Demented One
2009-11-01, 10:25 AM
Right then:
@Eldan: Do you have any particular suggestions as to who might be suitable for this role? The discipline seems to be about transcendent skill with arms [or says it is] but i don't have a measure of it...
I would suggest a Spanish duelist who is a rough expy for Inigo Montoya, because hey.

Eldan
2009-11-01, 10:41 AM
I'll try and look up some good european knights... the only one who comes to mind right now is Götz von Berlichingen (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/G%C3%B6tz_von_Berlichingen) who also has the nicely fitting nickname "of the Iron Hand".
I think some people still claim he influenced Berserk's Guts. Because, hey, prosthetic gauntlet and similar name.

Mulletmanalive
2009-11-01, 10:50 AM
Gotz sounds like an interesting chap. Great name, though i'm not seeingn any great reputation for skill in his entry...

Side Note: Is Berzerk any good? Not known anyone who's actually watched it...

Eldan
2009-11-01, 10:57 AM
The anime cuts out a lot and ends just right in the middle, though it is kind of a climax. The manga is ridiculously bloody, violent and full of gore, rape, slaughter and general mayhem. Also, the world is depressing as hell. Or rather, the abyss, when comparing to DnD. Some people don't like any of these things. Other than that, it's basically the story of a barbarian/fighter leveling from one to 20 and has pretty cool fights.

But yes, von Berlichingen isn't really known for weapon skill. He just came to mind because of the name.