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Sploosh
2009-10-30, 12:48 AM
As the title suggests, we're doing a 4e one shot at our Halloween party. Everyone wants to be a striker. Yes, no controllers, leaders or defenders.

I've never done 4e above level one so I dont truly understand that but I've instanced in WoW from the opening of UBRS as end game till current and I know a little bit about the outcomes of an all DPS no experience group.

I can't give any details here since our other players read this but I'll gladly give what meager info I have via PM.

The group consists of a Swordmage, a ranger multiclassed rogue, a matyrr avenger, a minotaur barb (me :smallsmile:) and a rogue.

Are there any tips that a group of strikers could use to survive a Gygaxian stye dungeon?

Godskook
2009-10-30, 12:52 AM
I don't play 4e, but I suspect the 10' pole is pretty universal for keeping people alive.

Kylarra
2009-10-30, 12:55 AM
As the title suggests, we're doing a 4e one shot at our Halloween party. Everyone wants to be a striker. Yes, no controllers, leaders or defenders.

I've never done 4e above level one so I dont truly understand that but I've instanced in WoW from the opening of UBRS as end game till current and I know a little bit about the outcomes of an all DPS no experience group.

I can't give any details here since our other players read this but I'll gladly give what meager info I have via PM.

The group consists of a Swordmage, a ranger multiclassed rogue, a matyrr avenger, a minotaur barb (me :smallsmile:) and a rogue.

Are there any tips that a group of strikers could use to survive a Gygaxian stye dungeon?
You've got a defender though. Swordmage. :smalltongue:

Sploosh
2009-10-30, 01:01 AM
Oh snap, I dont know how I missed that.

Well in all liklihood she'll play it like a striker. :smallannoyed:

Gralamin
2009-10-30, 01:07 AM
Oh snap, I dont know how I missed that.

Well in all liklihood she'll play it like a striker. :smallannoyed:

Swordmages don't make effective strikers, really, without a lot of work. Much easier to make a fighter pretend to be a striker.

Sploosh
2009-10-30, 01:08 AM
She played a cleric who didnt cast spells for a campaign that lasted 9 sessions, she wont back away from a swordsage striker.

Apprciate the pointing out and the suggestion though, I'll bring it up.

Kylarra
2009-10-30, 01:08 AM
Swordmages don't make effective strikers, really, without a lot of work. Much easier to make a fighter pretend to be a striker.Or a warden, /obligatory allusion to crippling crush


She played a cleric who didnt cast spells for a campaign that lasted 9 sessions, she wont back away from a swordsage striker.Swordmage has the lowest damage powers out of the defenders iirc. Well, I've admittedly not played one in paragon tier, but in heroic for sure they're the weakest on the output side.

Sploosh
2009-10-30, 01:11 AM
What is the closest striker or controller that fields swordsagey? Orbizard?

Haha, we said swordsage instead of swordmage. Damn you 4e!

Kylarra
2009-10-30, 01:13 AM
What is the closest striker or controller that fields swordsagey? Orbizard?Are you trying to actually hit things with the sword or just wield it as an implement?

Wizard of the Spiral Tower (Paragon Path) is probably the most effective, though sorcerer can pick up the sword as an implement via arcane implement proficiency and wield it half decently if you took any of the strength secondaried ones.

Sploosh
2009-10-30, 01:16 AM
I think she wants to hit things and look cool with spells but I'll check that out. Thanks for the help.

Kurald Galain
2009-10-30, 03:38 AM
The group consists of a Swordmage, a ranger multiclassed rogue, a matyrr avenger, a minotaur barb (me :smallsmile:) and a rogue.
Okay. Pretty much all of that is easy to optimize for damage. For ranger I'd suggest archery, Caution To The Wind, Spitting Cobra Stance as many multihit powers as you can get away with, and any static damage boosts you can find (such as bracers of +2 damage) because they work on each of your strikers. For the rogue, Daggermaster PP plus any number of feats (and items) that trigger on a crit, and as many area attacks as you can find on the rogue list. For the barb, the feat that lets you use minotaur headbutt on opportunity attacks, and anything that triggers on a charge.

However. You can surely do without a controller or defender, but you will need healing. Because without that, any of you that goes down (and you will) will stay down. If nobody's willing to play a healer, I'd at least suggest that everybody who isn't multiclassed already, multis to healer; or make a hybrid healer; or take the Combat Medic feat.


She played a cleric who didnt cast spells for a campaign that lasted 9 sessions, she wont back away from a swordsage striker.
Technically clerics can't cast spells at all in 4E :)

(because only arcane powers are called "spells")



Wizard of the Spiral Tower (Paragon Path) is probably the most effective,
Actually, I would suggest any Eladrin wizard, with the Eladrin Sword Wizardry feat which does pretty much exactly that. Then for more striker-ness, take Blood Mage as your wiz paragon path. Wizards are, however, sorely outdamaged by any real striker, particularly sorcerers.


I don't play 4e, but I suspect the 10' pole is pretty universal for keeping people alive.
Actually, it won't: a ten-foot-pole by RAW doesn't do anything, and isn't even on the equipment list any more.

Starsinger
2009-10-30, 07:07 AM
Well if her desire is to hit things with a pointy piece of metal and cast spells at the same time, I recommend Sorcerer with Sorcerous Blade Channeling.

Kylarra
2009-10-30, 10:33 AM
Actually, I would suggest any Eladrin wizard, with the Eladrin Sword Wizardry feat which does pretty much exactly that. Then for more striker-ness, take Blood Mage as your wiz paragon path. Wizards are, however, sorely outdamaged by any real striker, particularly sorcerers.
Nyah, I've never particularly liked wands in 4e beyond their encounter power use, but yes, that would work too.

Sploosh
2009-10-30, 11:02 AM
Her cleric was 3.5 not 4e. :smalltongue:

I'll suggest them to read this thread for optimization help and I'll try and convert someone to a leader.

Artanis
2009-10-30, 11:07 AM
The Swordmage's player could always take another class and completely refluff the abilities. Like, say, an Avenger, but describe it as hitting them with a sword covered in eldritch flames, rather than using the Power of God to smite the enemy.

Sploosh
2009-10-30, 11:18 AM
I'll suggest that too ( I have a list down, yay) but are there any other tips for a group of mostly strkers in a gygax dungeon that was home to

Acerak? Please dont openly describe it though.

Kylarra
2009-10-30, 11:23 AM
Cry. A lot. :smallyuk:


I don't think that it would translate well to 4e tbh.

Sploosh
2009-10-30, 11:37 AM
Yeah, I'm thinking the same thing but he seems pretty proud of it so I am afraid....very afraid.

1of3
2009-10-30, 12:05 PM
A few people could take the MC Feats for Leader classes. Some Words per day would help.

You could also suggest, someone makes a Hybrid from their prefered class and some leader.

FoE
2009-10-30, 12:33 PM
If it's a one shot, healing isn't that important. I mean, it doesn't really matter if anyone survives, does it?

Awesomologist
2009-10-30, 12:57 PM
Your swordmage player can always go for an Assault Swordmage. If she's smart she'll mark the Barbarian's target leaving enemies with the choice of leaving the Barbarian (and possibly facing an Opportunity attack or opening up space for a charge) or attacking the Barbarian with a -2 (great for the big guy's low defenses) and if it hits, face an attack from the swordmage.
Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
Consider also multi-classing. Avenger can take Cleric, Barbarian and Rogue can take Warlord, Swordmage can take Artificer. Everyone has a minor action heal for the day that way. If you guys do consider playing a leader I would suggest either a Warlord (any type, they're all pretty good) or a Con based Artificer. The Artificer offers a little control, great buffs, and surgeless healing.

Dyllan
2009-10-30, 02:38 PM
In addition to each taking one multiclass healing feat (don't forget Bard multiclass if you do go Sorcerer), I'd suggest you take a look at the skill based utility powers in Dragon 379. If you have the proper skill trained, you can take them in place of your class utility powers. At level 2, with Religion, you can get one that allows someone to spend a healing surge as a daily. Or with Healing trained you can let someone who's dying spend a healing surge as an encounter (also level 2). Or with Endurance trained you can either dish out temporary hitpoints (basically pre-emptive healing), or give yourself damage reduction (as an interrupt).

And that's just the options at level 2. There are more for your level 6 and 10 utilities.

Between those and multiclassing, and making sure everyone stocks up on healing potions, you can probably get away with not having a leader. Especially for a one-shot.

Sploosh
2009-10-30, 06:06 PM
Ooh, thanks for those tips!