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Leliel
2009-10-30, 02:26 PM
Well, one of the main baddies in my conceptual all-lycanthrope, all non-evil campaign is Lady Edena Pullusia, the daughter of the true BBEG who plays the mad scientist/wizard with a focus in biology to the book. She's obsessed with genetic perfection and evolution, she creates super soldiers for her dad, she has an ominous castle on a cliff, cloning etc.

However, like her dad, I want her to be an incredibly sympathetic villain. You know the type-tormented about what they do, wants to improve the world, etc.

I've already started on it with her backstory-Edena herself is a clone of her mother's unborn child-she was murdered in cold blood before she could give birth-and according to the woman, a failed one at that. This is more or less due to the fact that Erebin (her father) is a pretty crappy parent, avoiding his own daughter as much as possible due to survivor's guilt. Rather than realizing the true problem-that the death of Erebin's wife screwed him up beyond all recognition-Edena thinks that it's because she is imperfect, and thus, a disappointment to her father. So she's become obsessed with researching a way to make herself a perfect replica of Erebin's original child and so, make herself good enough to be loved.

This has come at a cost to her interpersonal relationship and personality, as she has become paranoid about being emotionally hurt, and so has distanced herself from everyone, including her lover, Jacob Bok. To her, she isn't good enough for anyone if she isn't good enough for her dad, and thus, the idea of being a lovable person as she is is a bit of an alien concept.

Of course, I have very little idea of how this works when applied to her research, so...any ideas?

Sinfire Titan
2009-10-30, 02:32 PM
This reminds me of a movie... (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RepoTheGeneticOpera)

kamikasei
2009-10-30, 02:43 PM
So what you're saying is, she's an evil person who does evil things but because she's emotionally damaged rather than because she signed up on a whim for the evening Evil program at her local Evil community college and needs to keep her Evil Point Average up?

Which is to say, she's a villain of any real substance rather than a cartoonish cut-out? This is not something that needs special advice to achieve.

Telonius
2009-10-30, 02:50 PM
This reminds me of a movie... (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/RepoTheGeneticOpera)

Seems equal part that and Metropolis, but yeah.

OP, what exactly do you need help with? Backstory, characterization, or mechanics?

Rhiannon87
2009-10-30, 02:56 PM
Well, she wants to make herself better, right? So she's going to be testing ways to improve herself physically and mentally, but she can't test that on herself, obviously, so... disposable minions for testing! The better ones get used as the super-soldiers (improved strength or endurance or intellect), but she doesn't think any of them are ever right. The improvements are never good enough.

It's a vicious cycle-- subconsciously, she might believe that because she is inherently flawed, she simply lacks the ability to come up with a way to correct her own flaws, so she's never going to perceive her accomplishments as good enough. In a way, she's behaving like her father; he didn't think she was good enough, and now she doesn't think any of her creations are good enough. So she's probably very abusive towards her test subjects and research projects and horrible abominations against nature. They're not good enough, and by them not being good enough, she's not good enough.

Using random slaves/peasants/foot soldiers as test subjects, torturing and abusing them during the tests, and then handing over the ones that survive and are useful to her father to use as super soldiers? Sounds pretty evil to me.

PinkysBrain
2009-10-30, 03:04 PM
However, like her dad, I want her to be an incredibly sympathetic villain. You know the type-tormented about what they do, wants to improve the world, etc.
In all those paragraphs you typed I saw narcissism writ large. I might feel some pity for her damaged youth while driving a large sword through her heart (instead of her abdomen to make it hurt) but I wouldn't really call that sympathy.

If you want to invoke sympathy I think you are going to have to find some way to change the why of her actions to be to the betterment of someone else rather than herself.

vicente408
2009-10-30, 03:10 PM
What if, instead of making herself a perfect replica, she wants to make another clone that is perfect, whom she can present to her father as a "replacement" daughter? She knows she's not an exact copy of his "real" child, but she hopes that if she can create one for him he can be happy, at the expense of her own well-being. That seems a bit more sympathetic to me than wanting to make herself in the replica.

jiriku
2009-10-30, 03:11 PM
I could see her starting an orphanage for crippled children or for war orphans. She might be warm and caring towards them, although probably not very stable as a surrogate parent. Identify some group of people she hates and feels contempt for, and have her only experiment on them. This creates more verisimilitude for why she would be caring towards one group of people and monstrous towards another.

How old is she? Does she have any children? Perhaps she has a child who she's smotheringly protective of, someone who's a pale, thin hypochondriac because Mommy won't let him out of the castle where he might get sick or fall and hurt himself.

Saph
2009-10-30, 03:33 PM
So what you're saying is, she's an evil person who does evil things but because she's emotionally damaged rather than because she signed up on a whim for the evening Evil program at her local Evil community college and needs to keep her Evil Point Average up?

Which is to say, she's a villain of any real substance rather than a cartoonish cut-out? This is not something that needs special advice to achieve.

Seconded. Giving a villain motivations doesn't make them "incredibly sympathetic", it's just a first step towards making them believable.

To make a villain sympathetic, you have to do two things:

• make their actions justifiable
• make them likeable.

"My daddy never loved me" isn't a good justification and doesn't make her sound very likeable, either. A better approach would be something like: she has good reason to believe that the super soldiers she's creating are actually making the world a better place, she tries to be kind to them and treats them as human beings rather than as experiments, pays attention to their wishes, etc. Something like Dr. Halsey from the Halo universe.

If she treats her creations as numbered experiments and is cold and distant to everyone, on the other hand, your chances of making her sympathetic are just about zero.

Tyndmyr
2009-10-30, 03:46 PM
Evil genetic engineer? Make him telepathic. He's literally feeling the pain of the subjects he works on. The idea of someone sobbing as he cuts into you is both a wee bit horrifying and somehow compelling.

Sure, he *could* block it out given sufficient magical devices, but doing so would be wrong in his eyes. His goals are sufficiently important that he feels he must take these steps.

The whole "my parents didn't love me" isn't my cuppa tea, in case you haven't noticed. Too high of a risk of coming across as emo, and not being taken seriously, or worse, turned into a joke. Also, cold, distant villians are relatively common and tend to be uninteresting. Players tend not to think twice about killing them.

Personally, I'd have his motivation be trying to find a cure for a mistake he made. Nobody starts out as an evil BBEG, they work their way there. When he was young, cocky, etc, he no doubt had foreshadowing of this path(thanks to the rules of drama), and his attempts to better the lives of those close to him, whoever they may be, went awry. This is still a wee bit steriotypical, yes, but it gives you a decent story that you can build off of in different directions instead of just a reason to stab someone.

Randel
2009-10-30, 04:38 PM
A few ideas:

1). While she does create 'super soldiers' she does recognize that they are independent creatures andtries to make them versatile enough that even after they take over the world or win whatever war they are in, then her creations will be able to find work in a post-war land.

She makes at least 90% of her soldiers female (or maybe 60/40) so that even after the war then they can raise families of their own. Its one thing to fuse the DNA of Chuck Norris, Arnold Shwatzenager, Wolverine, and Squirrel Girl together to make the ultimate killing machine... its another thing to make a soldier that you would want around after the war is over.

In addition to fighting, they have a variety of craft, farming, healing or proffesional skills to work with. That way they can set up and maintain camps and places during the war and even work them place after its over.

She makes them smart enough to keep track of eachother, her creations are not mass-produced faceless mooks, they are 'the next and improved generation' who will help take over the world and run it properly. Or alternativly, she makes this generation of soldiers to take over the world, settle down, and raise the next generation to live there.

This generation of super-soldiers are mostly female (but naturally are tough enough and have the training to fight as well as any other army) but once they settle down and raise families (probably taking husbands from the strongest or most sucessful males who were smart enough to join her fathers side in the war) then the resulting generation would be about 50/50 male and female (as its natural) so things would settle down after that.


2). She recognizes that not everything boils down to genetics or 'survival of the fittest'. Even the lowly peasants that live in the conquored lands can be useful and shouldn't be abused as long as they know how to do their jobs. (someone who is weak but can be useful in some way is fine, she concentrates her wrath on 'wild' creatures or ones who are enemies or can't learn to get along with her.). The survivors are not necessarily the strong ones, they are the ones who know how to get along and work in groups.

Nerd-o-rama
2009-10-30, 04:41 PM
Just an observation: if all your villains are tragically sympathetic, it might start seeming a little stale to your players. I hope there'll be at least one person they can feel good about fighting instead of guilty.

Also, the title of this thread is phrased kind of ridiculously. I know what you mean, but "evil" and "bad person" are synonyms, man.

hamishspence
2009-10-30, 04:43 PM
Terry Pratchet- Eric.

"While demons are irredeemably evil- they are not all bad people"

Nerd-o-rama
2009-10-30, 04:46 PM
Great, now I have to reread that book, because I don't remember that line. I'd also argue against it being, strictly, true. The upper-level demons are, in fact, evil, and bad people, caring about nothing beyond their own personal advancement (or stability) and sadistic pleasures. The lower, tormentor demons you see seem to be overall decent (if complacent) people who are just trying to do their jobs, which is punishing people who deserve to be punished.

But seriously, look in a thesaurus for "evil" and you will, in fact, see "bad" there.

hamishspence
2009-10-30, 04:52 PM
D&D alignment (especially in Champions of Ruin) allows for the non-sociopathic Evil character.

The "For the Greater Good" type, in short, among other things.

to say "This person is evil alignment" is not quite the same as "This person is bad person"

Indeed, you might even say "this person is a good man driven to do evil in a good cause"- which is why they detect as evil.

Can an Evil person say with any justice "I'm not a bad person- I Did What I Had to Do"?

Leliel
2009-10-30, 06:56 PM
To all those who comment on my "just making her sympathetic through her backstory":

That's what I'm trying to avoid.

I want to show how the inner struggle of a strong conscience versus an ideology taken to it's extremes plays out through the actions of a villain.

Erebin-which you would know if you read his writeup-possesses a backstory that it's impossible to not pity, as I have been told. Indeed, while I had initially wanted to make him an escapee Ravenloft darklord, the other posters pointed out that he honestly feels sorry for the actions that led to his imprisonment, and thus, unsuitable as a darklord. In other words, he was too sympathetic for Ravenloft.

The truth is, I want both him and his direct minions to be mistakable for heroes, perhaps not by the PCs, but certainly his followers. A large part of the campaign is the dual natures of everything, not just lycanthropes.

So with Edena, I just don't want her to have a vaguely Freudian excuse for her actions-I want to show this is honestly what happens when a child has a parent who truly loves them, but is incredibly neglectful and dysfunctional.

She's a mad scientist with ethics, in other words. It's just so happens I have a hard time visualizing what those ethics are.

PinkysBrain
2009-10-30, 08:54 PM
Have you read Battle Angel Alita?

In it there is a mad scientist named Nova, who wishes to give creatures the power to chase after their destiny (Karma). He creates a couple of heros, a couple of evil monsters and a whole ton of failures (he just sees those with no Karma as subhumans to start with, so he doesn't care).

He's an amoral monster and I feel no sympathy for him (nor for the girl you described) but he can be easily mistaken for a great man if you don't know about the evil monsters and failures.

Megaduck
2009-10-30, 09:21 PM
Of course, I have very little idea of how this works when applied to her research, so...any ideas?

How this applies to her research. Edena seems to be a perfectionist, she wants to be perfect herself and this applies to everything around her.

I would play up the fact that she has no real concept of what love is but a deep and almost pathological need for perfection. In roleplaying her you might want to show this by having all her lab equipment placed in an exact grid pattern or something or having everything exactly arranged.

Edena seems to also be trying to find perfection in her work. She's always trying to improve her creations. Make a better soldier/monster/whatever but whatever she makes is never 'good enough' and she has to go back and try again.

Edena might even have a genuine love for what she creates, however, she's totally unable to express it. She just doesn't know how, so she alternates between neglect and a driving push to help them 'be better'. You might show this by having her go to beyond impossible length to attempt to retrieve/repair a damaged creation. (Probably one damaged by the heros)

It also looks like Edena will have severe self esteem issues. Everyone around her is 'better' then she is because she is just a 'failed' clone while they are not. This could make her extremely solicitous to her castle staff, there is very few faster ways to make a character sympathetic then to have them be Nice to the Waiter (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/NiceToTheWaiter).

Indeed, Edena's staff could be quite devoted to her, even love her. Unlike a normal villain she might turn her self esteem issues inward, rather then outward. So rather then punish the staff when she gets upset she punishes herself, perhaps by long hours in the lab trying to create the 'perfect' something. In this case the staff might be genuinely worried for her and try everything they can to snap her out of it.

Edena's problem could be that she doesn't CARE what her creations are used for. She might call the part dog part octopus that spits acid abomination fluffy and be completely unconcerned that it just decimated a town in another country. She could be doing this to please daddy and as long as he's happy the fact that the latest monster runs on the sacrificed souls of orphan children really isn't her problem.

Alternatively she could revel in the destruction her creations cause (as long as its not next door). After all, she's a weapons designer, and there is nothing a weapons designer likes to do more then to put their weapons to good use. The havoc that the giant squid caused to the fishing fleet wasn't a tragedy, it was proof of it's superiority, that she was one step closer to perfection.

Zeful
2009-10-30, 09:47 PM
To all those who comment on my "just making her sympathetic through her backstory":

That's what I'm trying to avoid.

I want to show how the inner struggle of a strong conscience versus an ideology taken to it's extremes plays out through the actions of a villain.

Okay.

Do the players fight her creations at any time before meeting her?
That's pretty much the crux of your problems. Have them fight a couple of her super soldiers, and track them back to her location. Then think about the following things:
How are the Super soldiers being made? Are they all literally her children who are trained in a loving household before being sent off to war? Or are they volunteers who agree with her beliefs and wish to see the world a better place?
How would you go about showing the above? If the soldiers are her children, is the ominous fortress where she does her work lavishly and warmly decorated to the point where the PC's think they have the wrong place?
How does she react to the PC's attack on her soldiers? Indifference? Anguish? Anger?


She's a mad scientist with ethics, in other words. It's just so happens I have a hard time visualizing what those ethics are.

No experimenting on children or the dead (doubly so with dead children) no matter how useful it may be. If someone wishes to leave, they can do so, and they won't self destruct or die in a couple of years. If an experiment would compromise the subject's intelligence or lifespan, then it's a failure, irregardless of the benefit's.

Leliel
2009-10-30, 10:03 PM
Okay.

Do the players fight her creations at any time before meeting her?
That's pretty much the crux of your problems. Have them fight a couple of her super soldiers, and track them back to her location. Then think about the following things:

Haven't decided yet. Will probably meet her in a non-combat situation, then she sics one of her creations on them for a boss fight.

How are the Super soldiers being made? Are they all literally her children who are trained in a loving household before being sent off to war? Or are they volunteers who agree with her beliefs and wish to see the world a better place?

Volunteers, mainly.

How would you go about showing the above? If the soldiers are her children, is the ominous fortress where she does her work lavishly and warmly decorated to the point where the PC's think they have the wrong place?

Given that they're volunteers, she has the classic gloomy, Frakensteinian castle.

How does she react to the PC's attack on her soldiers? Indifference? Anguish? Anger?

Resignation. It's war, and although she doesn't like it, some people have to die.

No experimenting on children or the dead (doubly so with dead children) no matter how useful it may be. If someone wishes to leave, they can do so, and they won't self destruct or die in a couple of years. If an experiment would compromise the subject's intelligence or lifespan, then it's a failure, irregardless of the benefit's.

That's a good point.

taltamir
2009-10-30, 10:51 PM
the party will slay her before she is even half way through to explaining her daddy issues... (assuming she decides exposition is in order)

She sounds like a believable villain with issues instead of a caricature. But that wouldn't make her likable... and with that level of issues, killing her quickly is the only thing the PCs are likely to come up with. (its not like they can magic away her daddy issues... well, except with a Heal spell, since it explicitly cures all forms of insanity and mental issues)

PS about genetic engineering in fiction:
http://dresdencodak.com/2009/09/22/caveman-science-fiction/

PPS. if she just makes super soldiers out of volunteers... than what makes her a villian? is bio engineering evil for some reason?
As a PC I would ask her to upgrade me :)

Tiki Snakes
2009-10-30, 11:26 PM
I like the idea of both having her be nice to the staff, as it were, (and the super soldiers, and etc) and hard on herself.

I'd suggest also, it should be clear if/when the PC's get there that, pretty much, she's not a direct or combat threat. She's just a scientist, after all.

Perhaps they could stumble on her in the lab, as she tearfully tries to ressurect her most recent, remotely successful attempt to please her father, (that the PC's destroyed a few fights ago). Sure, they might just stab the young nerdy girl for making monsters, but thats firmly in the ethically grey territory you're likely shooting for anyway, just make sure that her final moments are appropriately Tragic and it's a flavour win either way.

Also, I'm gonna put in a vote for, well, rather than the rigorous perfectionism angle, have the place be a cluttered, disfunctional mess of half-finished projects and sad little failures. A slightly pathetic touch should add to things nicely, and would feel a lot more human to me.


Oh, and I'll second the idea to not focus on modifying herself, or chasing her own perfection too much? She's broken, utterly worthless, and beyond repair in her own eyes, no point throwing good effort after bad. No, rather perhaps focus on her efforts to help him however she can, attempts to reverse engineer her own genetic code and create better, less imperfect clones (probably ending up in repeated horrific and traumatic failures?) and generally increasingly desperate attempts to do something, anything, just to get his attention?

Leliel
2009-10-31, 12:14 AM
PPS. if she just makes super soldiers out of volunteers... than what makes her a villian? is bio engineering evil for some reason?
As a PC I would ask her to upgrade me :)

It isn't.

She's evil because of the extremism that she takes from her father, who is basically a lycanthropic Malcolm X.

Yukitsu
2009-10-31, 12:16 AM
The father could simply be lying to his rather nerdish, cloistered daughter about what he's getting her to do all this for.

taltamir
2009-10-31, 04:53 AM
It isn't.

She's evil because of the extremism that she takes from her father, who is basically a lycanthropic Malcolm X.

what "extremism" exactly? she only works on volunteers, cares for them, crys when they are killed... if anything she is a pure and innocent girl with a daddy complex.

Megaduck
2009-10-31, 07:15 AM
It isn't.

She's evil because of the extremism that she takes from her father, who is basically a lycanthropic Malcolm X.

If I might point out. You're moving away from Evil Genetic Engineer here. What you're getting close to is either Mad Scientists Beautiful Daughter (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/ptitlejhfmx9xo4le0?from=Main.MadScientistsBeautifu lDaughter). She's a good person who happens to be naive about her work which is setting her up for a Heel Face Turn (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/HeelFaceTurn). IF she's evil just because of her father then the hero's are going to expect to be able to rescue her, and should be able to. I think the only way to keep her evil long term is give her her own motivations.

*Edit* Pretty much what Taltamir is saying, you're making her to good.

PhoenixRivers
2009-10-31, 08:05 AM
Perhaps her father was outcast. Perhaps misunderstood. Regardless, she understands him, and loves him as only a daughter can.

The rejection? The dismissal? Why, she's not good enough. She can't change herself. She's worthless.

Why, the only way she can have any value at all is in what she does for others.

She sees farmers struggling with a stump, and realizes how hard their lives are. The next night, their mule goes missing. A week later, they find it returned, misshapen, and freakishly strong. It kicks one, and kills a farmer or two.

She hears her dad talk about how worthless his troops are... Why, she can help them! They can be made better, and it helps daddy too! Wonderful...

Never mind the bodies... She's not good enough yet. Never good enough. Must work harder. Have to be good enough to help everyone.

That's sympathetic. She's trying to help, but tormenting everything around her. At best, her father is using her. She doesn't really connect with others well enough... Or when she does, doesn't see their deaths as a consequence of her actions, but rather, her failures. In the end, you have a guilt-wracked idealist, scarred by the pain she causes, and locked in a vicious circle to cause more, as she'll never find the perfect way to alter people, though each failure drives her that much harder to "atone" with success. After all... The only way she can be worth anything is if she helps. If she gives up? Then it's all for nothing.

Leliel
2009-10-31, 10:25 PM
what "extremism" exactly? she only works on volunteers, cares for them, crys when they are killed... if anything she is a pure and innocent girl with a daddy complex.

Namely, the kind of extremism that leads to Magneto's line of reasoning.

True, in the true comic continuity-not the monster in the Ultimate series-he's not that bad of a person, but he's unable to accept that mutants and normal people can live in peace, and ends up making the problem worse.

For Erebin, and by extension Edena, swap out "mutants" for "lycanthropes" and you've got the basic idea.

taltamir
2009-11-01, 02:46 AM
Namely, the kind of extremism that leads to Magneto's line of reasoning.

True, in the true comic continuity-not the monster in the Ultimate series-he's not that bad of a person, but he's unable to accept that mutants and normal people can live in peace, and ends up making the problem worse.

For Erebin, and by extension Edena, swap out "mutants" for "lycanthropes" and you've got the basic idea.

only due to anvilicious aesop mishandling by the writers...
Him turning on mystique when she lost her powers? retarded and uncharacteristic.
Him losing all the time? bull pucky
Him "making things worse" by fighting? another BS theory.

The writers can do whatever they want because they control cause and effect, but they are making broken aesops really.

And you still haven't explained how she is bad... you are just throwing vague references but every single aspect of her is good thus far.

Fishy
2009-11-01, 03:39 AM
In order to achieve her ultimate goal, Edena has to either alter herself into the perfect daughter, or grow the perfect daughter in a vat and transfer her consciousness in. So she'll be interested in weird and artificial variant strains of Lycanthropy, eventually looking for one that turns the victim into a little girl. Or, she'll be interested in the mind, altering and editing memories and personalities, with a particular focus on the 'love response'. From there, the early research that's necessary to get to the level of understanding that she needs is filled with all kinds of horror potential.

Here's some creepy fun: The PCs, through accident or research, end up visiting the family of a super-soldier they know is dead. Instead of a grieving wife and kids, they find Daddy, alive and well, visiting for just a day or two on 'shore leave', just like he does every year. He's a clone, of course, and not even a terribly good one, but good enough to fool people for a short period of time. Edena hates, more than anything else, to see a family broken up.

Leliel
2009-11-01, 10:28 PM
only due to anvilicious aesop mishandling by the writers...
Him turning on mystique when she lost her powers? retarded and uncharacteristic.
Him losing all the time? bull pucky
Him "making things worse" by fighting? another BS theory.

The writers can do whatever they want because they control cause and effect, but they are making broken aesops really.

And you still haven't explained how she is bad... you are just throwing vague references but every single aspect of her is good thus far.

OK, I'll be honest: The question of wether or not she's a truly evil person-along with the rest of the BBEGs-is a one I want the PCs to ponder.

True, Erebin is evil-he's lost faith with humanity at large-and her lover is Chaotic Evil-while a rather kind and nice person, Jacob is a slave to his passions, including his dark ones-I want the PCs to realize that an alignment is not the end-all-be-all of a person.

taltamir
2009-11-01, 11:52 PM
that is great. Having a morally ambiguous person is wonderful for a plot and to challenge the PCs to role play.

Agrippa
2009-11-02, 04:27 PM
Ok Leliel, what makes Edena's lover Jacob in any way Evilly aligned? How does he act towards those not under his command? Does he mistreat innocent bystanders? If not, would Jacob be willing to sacrifice innocent people and his own followers to benefit both his cause and his master's, no matter how much it would pain them both?

Also I don't see Edena as evil in any way. In fact with the proper guidence and support she could become a tremendus for good, using her research to cure genetic disorders, repair internal organs and even regrow limbs. If you want you could add in that she performs experimental treatments on the children she takes care if they suffer from either genetic malformations or physical injuries from before she took them in.

To top it all off, all the post-op children are doing rather well with the treatments and are being found new homes. Maybe she could be performing an operation while the PCs barge into the surgical room. And of course most likely mistake what's going on for torture or some sort of unethical experiment.

Ravens_cry
2009-11-02, 04:39 PM
Am I the only one who is getting a strong Narbonic (http://www.webcomicsnation.com/shaenongarrity/narbonic_plus/series.php?view=archive&chapter=14156) vibe from this thread? Capital letter Evil GE who is actually rather nice, in an evil sort of way? Hello, Helen Narbon. I apologize in advance for any Archive Binges that result from this linking.

taltamir
2009-11-02, 07:17 PM
Am I the only one who is getting a strong Narbonic (http://www.webcomicsnation.com/shaenongarrity/narbonic_plus/series.php?view=archive&chapter=14156) vibe from this thread? Capital letter Evil GE who is actually rather nice, in an evil sort of way? Hello, Helen Narbon. I apologize in advance for any Archive Binges that result from this linking.

I love narbonic. And only the aid was evil... and she turned LE later on.

As for the genetic engineer... it is extremely simple to make her evil.. just make her use people who are NOT volunteers... and at the same time dispense cures to sick children... so is her good of curing sick children offsetting her evil of kidnapping adults to use as gunea pigs?

You could just make her ugly and deformed, the PCs will slay her in a moment :)

Leliel
2009-11-02, 09:52 PM
Ok Leliel, what makes Edena's lover Jacob in any way Evilly aligned? How does he act towards those not under his command? Does he mistreat innocent bystanders? If not, would Jacob be willing to sacrifice innocent people and his own followers to benefit both his cause and his master's, no matter how much it would pain them both?


Because he's an obsessed stalker, that's why!

OK, a little more explanation:

Due to a series of events partially beyond his control, Jacob is slowly metamorphosing into an ancestor spirit. As a result, Edena is one of the last-heck, one of the only ever-connections to humanity he has.

That would be fine, if a little tragic, if she didn't take up his whole life-the primary goal in his existence is "make Mistress Edena happy", and he is quite willing to go to extremes for her.

Of course, Edena is somewhat culpable in this too-she's in denial about her feelings for him, and at least subconsciously realizes he's the primary chink in the "ice queen" image she projects. So she is rather passive-aggressive towards him, which in and of itself gives mixed signals since Jacob is an empath who can tell the surge of quickly-suppressed desire she feels is more than just a result of his looks.

When it comes down to it, however, both of them are damaged goods who have no idea what a healthy relationship is.