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View Full Version : Life everlasting [3.5 Tippy]



Omegonthesane
2009-10-31, 06:10 AM
Short of that epic spell seed which increases your maximum age, which needs to be cast over and over and over again with higher and higher DCs and research costs every time, is there any way for a non-evil Tippyverse spellcaster to gain a template that makes him or her immortal? As in, never die of old age, and never get a template that specifies "any evil"?

Well there is 'become a ghost' but I'd like something that can be reached deliberately and reliably by a series of carefully planned in-game actions, such as taking obscure PrCs or crafting items.

BobVosh
2009-10-31, 06:16 AM
Archlich if you are an elf. I think it is elf only.

Book of exalted deeds has a few good undead.

PAO yourself into an elan.

Make yourself into a lich with a contingency mindrape to make you good again afterwards? That seems Tippyish.

Ooo, PAO yourself into a dragon, 2x. Or once and into a dragonwrought kobold.

mostlyharmful
2009-10-31, 06:40 AM
anything that changes your type to outsider, Fey, Elemental, Undead (not all evil), Construct. There's also the turn into a Elan.

Half-Fey, Half-Celestial, Elemental Savant, Rogue Mastermaker, Swanmay, Necropolitan, etc.... there's loads.

Omegonthesane
2009-10-31, 06:45 AM
anything that changes your type to outsider, Fey, Elemental, Undead (not all evil), Construct. There's also the turn into a Elan.

Half-Fey, Half-Celestial, Elemental Savant, Rogue Mastermaker, Swanmay, Necropolitan, etc.... there's loads.

Dunno about that. By RAW, the construct type says nothing about your maximum age. Could you cite the rules that make this clear in each of those cases?

Also, I'm not counting "turn into an Elan" because that turns you back into a 1st level character.

Logalmier
2009-10-31, 08:59 AM
Dunno about that. By RAW, the construct type says nothing about your maximum age. Could you cite the rules that make this clear in each of those cases?

Also, I'm not counting "turn into an Elan" because that turns you back into a 1st level character.

I think he means you should use Polymorph Any Object twice to turn into one.

Alternatively, Emperor Tippy himself recently came up with a way to become Immortal. Linky. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129392)

vanyell
2009-10-31, 09:06 AM
If you decided to become an elan (IE becoming immortal but first level again) could you use a thought bottle to regain all your lost levels?

Crazy Scot
2009-10-31, 09:18 AM
One other idea would be to go "Cloud Anchorite" if I remember the name correctly (it is a PrC in Frostburn). It is a basically weak PrC focused around monk like abilities, but the 10th level class ability makes you have no maximum age. It is one of the few ways that I know of that you can gain no maximum age without changing your type.

Fcannon
2009-10-31, 09:31 AM
Also, I'm not counting "turn into an Elan" because that turns you back into a 1st level character.

Even if that were the case (I'm pretty sure PAO would let you stay at your current level), if you had the intelligence and talent to become a high-level wizard once, you could do it again. What's a couple decades of retraining if you're gonna live forever anyway?

Dimers
2009-10-31, 09:36 AM
Haven't been on the forums long enough to know whether "Tippyverse" means something specific or if it's just "full of sickeningly overpowered spell combos". Assuming that no particular spell is excluded by the definition -- you can use Undeath After Death, from Magic of Faerun. It's a 7th-level cleric spell that brings you back as a self-willed undead creature after you die (so, okay, not "immortality" until after the spell is used the first time).

The spell removes two points of Con until it's discharged, but you'll have no Con score as an undead anyway, so that's no harm. There's no chance of failure, unlike for the standard lich transformation. The spell is evil to cast, but that says nothing about its recipient's alignment (template says "Alignment: usually evil. Few nonevil beings are willing to submit to the undeath to death spell or become an undead creature."). The template gained has the following properties: d12 HDs, natural armor increasing by HD, turn resistance +2, no Con score, +4 racial Intimidate bonus. Your Challenge Rating goes up by 1. That's it. *shrug*

Starbuck_II
2009-10-31, 09:41 AM
If you decided to become an elan (IE becoming immortal but first level again) could you use a thought bottle to regain all your lost levels?

Yes, but you can only gain 1 level at a time.

Can you take a little of the XP of the bottle at a time?
If you take it all at once: you can't regain more than 1.

Grynning
2009-10-31, 10:30 AM
Haven't been on the forums long enough to know whether "Tippyverse" means something specific or if it's just "full of sickeningly overpowered spell combos".

Emperor Tippy is a poster here. Using magic the Tippy way means that D&D RAW are the literal rules for how the world works. Since magic is essentially free energy that can do, well, anything, wizards pretty much rule a "Tippyverse."

Jack_Simth
2009-10-31, 10:52 AM
Mind Switch, True (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/mindSwitchTrue.htm). If you're Tippy, you find a Psion(Telepath) that knows it, and Mindrape them into doing it for you for free. And maybe use a Thought Bottle so that your Psion can do it over & over again.

sdream
2009-10-31, 10:53 AM
There is a very simple, very RAW, very core (Players Handbook only) solution.

Buy eternal youth, one lifetime at a time.

Whenever you start feeling old, just pay a level 7 druid to cast the level 4 spell Reincarnate (cut your own throat so you are a valid target).

Reincanate - page 270 - ...The magic of the spell creates an entirely new young adult body for the soul to inhabit...

It states that it cannot return to life a character which has died of old age, but has no exemption regarding a character who died from a slit throat. Even more, you have a better than 1 in 3 chance of coming back as an elf, dwarf, or gnome (which have hundreds of years of prime life before needing to do this again).

So as long as you aren't picky about what you look like, you can be immortal for 1280gp (40x7+material components - and one level) every 100 years or so.

And if you ARE picky about what you look like...
- hat of disguise makes you look like whatever you want for 1,800, and can be passed from body to body.

- polymorph any object is permanent changing between humanoid bodies of same int, so for a mere 1200gp (80x15) you can pay a level 15 mage to permanently change each new body to any race you want.

According to footnote 2 on page 129, since the total costs of both spells is (far) below 3,000 gold, the services are assumed to be available without even checking with the DM.

The problem with optomizers and god-mage types is that they forget just how much more powerful and convenient it is to work with others rather than trying to do everything yourself.

Omegonthesane
2009-10-31, 11:53 AM
There is a very simple, very RAW, very core (Players Handbook only) solution.

Buy eternal youth, one lifetime at a time.

Whenever you start feeling old, just pay a level 7 druid to cast the level 4 spell Reincarnate (cut your own throat so you are a valid target).

Reincanate - page 270 - ...The magic of the spell creates an entirely new young adult body for the soul to inhabit...

It states that it cannot return to life a character which has died of old age, but has no exemption regarding a character who died from a slit throat. Even more, you have a better than 1 in 3 chance of coming back as an elf, dwarf, or gnome (which have hundreds of years of prime life before needing to do this again).
This is the closest I could think of, but I was ideally wanting one that lets you keep your +3 Int/Wis/Cha from being a venerable grey elf at character creation.

Also, I can one-up you on the expenses front. Mindrape/persuade a druid to make you a Reincarnate TRAP, and craft a contingent Greater Teleport to ping there and trigger it at zero money cost when you die. The big disadvantage is that you lose a level each time, and have to commit seppuku if you ever reach Venerable because Reincarnate is no help for people who died of old age. Also, you burn XP for every Craft Contingent Greater Teleport. Still, it's probably less than chain-researching epic spells... no wait, it isn't, not with mitigation abuse and millions of devoted followers.


The problem with optomizers and god-mage types is that they forget just how much more powerful and convenient it is to work with others rather than trying to do everything yourself.

Not so much normal Tippyverse casters; they still need clerics to build and maintain Create Food and Water traps, and to Resurrect them.

Gestalt Tippyverse, though, is asking for a power-mad gestalt Wizard-Archivist, complete with bizarre PrC combo on the Wizard side.

KitsuneKionchi
2009-10-31, 12:00 PM
Oriental Adventures 3rd party module "Magic of Rokugan" has a spell that extends your maximum age ("Laugh of the Earth Dragon", I believe). I think its Shugenja only. Around 7th level or higher. XP cost around 3,000 I believe.

I think it increases it by an average of 10-20 years or so. There might be some dice rolling involved. You could probably maximize it easily enough. Definitely the way to go.

Doc Roc
2009-10-31, 12:13 PM
Sandwich trick + Mindswitch with an outsider. Get awesome stuff for free as part of the bargain.

Bayar
2009-10-31, 12:14 PM
Immortality: A Guide to Eternal Life (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5996.0) is probably the best resource to look into everlasting life.

tyckspoon
2009-10-31, 12:23 PM
This is the closest I could think of, but I was ideally wanting one that lets you keep your +3 Int/Wis/Cha from being a venerable grey elf at character creation.


I'm.. not sure Reincarnate removes those, actually. It doesn't change your mental scores, and you keep memory of your old self, the life experiences of which are surely the reasoning behind aging bonuses for mental scores. And the bonuses are, as near as I can tell, permanent adjustments that don't actually depend on being very old once you've acquired them. You could even (very slowly, unless you can reliably get Reincarnated into an unusually short-lived race) get arbitrarily high mental stats by the simple measure of looping through multiple lives.

'course, your DM will probably veto that. Much like turning yourself into a Necropolitan and then sitting in a tomb for several millenia to stack the Evolved Undead template.

Doc Roc
2009-10-31, 12:53 PM
'course, your DM will probably veto that. Much like turning yourself into a Necropolitan and then sitting in a tomb for several millenia to stack the Evolved Undead template.

I've always found scholarly agoraphobic and deeply claustrophobic necropolitans to be pretty funny as characters, particularly if they are good aligned. I might let you stack it twice or so.

kemmotar
2009-10-31, 01:53 PM
The easiest way is necropolitan...gives you all the benefits of the undead (eternal life, no SA-crit damage). It's also in the guide to eternal life above...it also has all the goodness of a template...

Foryn Gilnith
2009-10-31, 02:12 PM
For the Reincarnate Trap, there's a version of Reincarnate in Spell Compendium that takes no level loss if engaged within a few rounds of death. But necropolitan is the standard answer, as any alignment can take it.

Tavar
2009-10-31, 02:26 PM
For the thought bottle, to get around the 1 level at a time, use multiple ones.

Bayar
2009-10-31, 03:06 PM
For the Reincarnate Trap, there's a version of Reincarnate in Spell Compendium that takes no level loss if engaged within a few rounds of death. But necropolitan is the standard answer, as any alignment can take it.

I think it was 1 round after you died. Same as reincarnate, no level loss.

Kallisti
2009-10-31, 03:22 PM
For the Reincarnate Trap, there's a version of Reincarnate in Spell Compendium that takes no level loss if engaged within a few rounds of death.

...wat?

I think you mean Revivify. Which is more like Resurrection than Reincarnation in that it is a version of Resurrection. You keep your race...

Starbuck_II
2009-10-31, 03:26 PM
...wat?

I think you mean Revivify. Which is more like Resurrection than Reincarnation in that it is a version of Resurrection. You keep your race...

No, he means Last Breath.

Ganurath
2009-10-31, 03:26 PM
No love for the Green Star Adept PrC? Unlike other transformative PrCs, it explicitely states that you can't die of old age.

Kallisti
2009-10-31, 03:27 PM
No, he means Last Breath.

Last Breath? Oh. Well, never mind, then. Although, why use Last Breath over Revivify?
(I'm not very familiar with Last Breath. This is a serious question, not me being snarky.)

Moriato
2009-10-31, 03:32 PM
Last Breath? Oh. Well, never mind, then. Although, why use Last Breath over Revivify?
(I'm not very familiar with Last Breath. This is a serious question, not me being snarky.)

Because the raise and resurrection line of spells don't reset your age. The Reincarnate line does. You come back as a young adult "whatever"

Starbuck_II
2009-10-31, 03:40 PM
Drawback, you become Forrest Gump's box of chocolates: you never what you gonna get.

Sir_Elderberry
2009-10-31, 03:48 PM
No love for the Green Star Adept PrC? Unlike other transformative PrCs, it explicitely states that you can't die of old age.

You get to live forever, but you're a GSA. This sounds more like a punishment.

Bayar
2009-10-31, 04:12 PM
Drawback, you become Forrest Gump's box of chocolates: you never what you gonna get.

You have a Last breath trap that rebirth's you every time. Just get killed when you dont like what you turned into. Repeat until you are satisfied.

Since Last breath doesnt make you lose a level, it works.

Omegonthesane
2009-10-31, 04:48 PM
I'm.. not sure Reincarnate removes those, actually. It doesn't change your mental scores, and you keep memory of your old self, the life experiences of which are surely the reasoning behind aging bonuses for mental scores. And the bonuses are, as near as I can tell, permanent adjustments that don't actually depend on being very old once you've acquired them. You could even (very slowly, unless you can reliably get Reincarnated into an unusually short-lived race) get arbitrarily high mental stats by the simple measure of looping through multiple lives.

Let me get the rules about aging (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm#age)...


With age, a character’s physical ability scores decrease and his or her mental ability scores increase (see Table: Aging Effects). The effects of each aging step are cumulative. However, none of a character’s ability scores can be reduced below 1 in this way.
Nowhere does it say that you can keep the effects of a previous age category, and I would assume you wouldn't be able to as nothing even hints that you can & it seems counterintuitive from a RAW perspective. It isn't Reincarnate itself that strips you of Int/Wis/Cha, it's changing age category from Venerable to Young Adult.

Right now, I think Necropolitan is winning for minimum cost (can be done at 4th level for a minimum 1001 XP if you're at exactly 6000 XP when you change, no alignment restriction whatsoever).

tyckspoon
2009-10-31, 10:51 PM
Let me get the rules about aging (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/description.htm#age)...


Nowhere does it say that you can keep the effects of a previous age category, and I would assume you wouldn't be able to as nothing even hints that you can & it seems counterintuitive from a RAW perspective. It isn't Reincarnate itself that strips you of Int/Wis/Cha, it's changing age category from Venerable to Young Adult.


Says they're cumulative. You *have* to keep the effects of previous age categories in order to get that +3 Cha/Wis/Int, as the effects of Venerable alone are just -3 physical/+1 mental. And it's causing a permanent change in your stats- the rules don't say the change is actually tied to your age category, it's just triggered by changing age categories. Become Middle Aged, your base mental stats go up and your base physical stats go down. Repeat for other age categories (if you can find a way to repeatedly cross a category border you could stack those increases/subtractions much faster.) They're not typed bonuses or penalties to the stat, they're just.. changes, like the increases you get every fourth level. Reincarnate should retain them.

Mind, while looking it over again I realized you probably shouldn't bring that up with your DM, since the same reasoning for keeping and stacking the mental increases applies to keeping and stacking the physical subtractions. It can be mitigated a little by getting Reincarnated into something with good physical modifiers, but it won't be long before you're the world's smartest invalid.

Myrmex
2009-10-31, 10:56 PM
I've always found scholarly agoraphobic and deeply claustrophobic necropolitans to be pretty funny as characters, particularly if they are good aligned. I might let you stack it twice or so.

Don't you get +2 LA every time you "evolve" as an undead?