Who IS the least popular person here?

[thubby]

the last panel of the latest comic (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0687.html) got me thinking, who does everybody hate or like the least among the order of the stick?

personally, i gotta say elan. more interesting things seem to happen to him rather than there being anything interesting about him.

[Asta Kask]

Belkar. He's a laugh, but the 'sociopath with a golden heart' shtick is getting old.

[Zolkabro]

Both the things said so far I completely disagree with. Yes, Elan does sometimes just have things "happen" to him, istead of making them happen. Yes, Belkar is a horrible little murderous bastard. But they are both absolutely HILARIOUS!!!

I don't have a least favourite. The entire order is awesome.

[doliest]

I like all the Order, but Durkon's job as the straight man has really robbed him of anything approaching character development or humor.

[Kish]

Golden heart? :smallconfused: If you mean stolen, I'm pretty sure that's Haley...

Oh, and Vaarsuvius is my answer to the thread poll.

[Zevox]

For me, either Elan or Durkon. Elan for much the same reason as the OP - he's really only funny when things are happening to him, or when others in the comic are complaining about his stupidity, bad puns, and whatnot. Or Durkon, because, well, he hardly ever does anything, so in most instances the comic wouldn't really be changed if he weren't around, making it hard to see him as a character I really want around.

Zevox

[Dienekes]

Hopin' I don't get lynched here, but Haley.

She's not as interesting (to me) as Roy or V, not as funny as Elan or Belkar, and for some reason I got a lot of respect for Durkon simply for being the cleric (a trying job at best)

That said, Haley is still a brilliant addition to the team and all that, but she's the one that I could live without.

[derfenrirwolv]

Durkon the tree hating dwarf.

Its not that anyone hates him its that no one likes him.

He's bran cereal served in a cardboad box bowl

[Freelance Henchman]

I like Durkon and hate Belkar. :smallcool:

[waterpenguin43]

I think Belkar. Belkar's humor is getting old, meaning that in my opinion each other character in the order is funnier (Even Durkon, just because of "date-bearing bitch) and he adds very little character developement to the plot.

[Meg]

Mmmm, tough call. Belkar, in my opinion. He reminds me too much of certain people I didn't get along with. Plus, much of the humor he provides is the same three or four jokes retold. If he wasn't a main member of the Order, (If he was in the Linear Guild, or something) I think I'd like him more, but as is, he's a little trying.

[someonenonotyou]

Durkon really just boring, bland, and avreage :sigh:

Belkar at least has some development an interesting personaillty

[k_bukie]

I'd say Belkar, because he's by far the shallowest character in the Order, and his characterization is pretty much played out by now.

[Mauve Shirt]

Most definitely Belkar.

[Turkish Delight]

Durkon. He's basically been the walking embodiment of the 'All Dwarves are the same' schtick since the start of the comic, with only the barest traces of character development. That's fine for a one-off joke, but he's been like that for years now. His only major plotline in the regular comic was abandoned in the first book.

Remember Lord Shojo's dream-image pestering Belkar? 'I need you to tell me what you are.' What is Durkon? Had he switched places with Belkar in that dream, what real response could he have offered except, 'I AM A GENERIC COOKIE-CUTTER DWARVEN CLERIC!'?

Durkon needs development and he needs it badly. Until he gets it, he's the least interesting member of the Order.

[derfenrirwolv]

Durkon needs development and he needs it badly. Until he gets it, he's the least interesting member of the Order.

It probably is comming though.

He's going to die and be brought back to the dwarven homelands, ahead of xykons army. learning how and why he was booted out will probably be a major plot point for him

[Brendan]

Well... going by what the order thinks, no one was fazed by belkar's death prophecy, and several characters are probably looking forward to his death. by my opinion, Roy's sword. It is recognised by roy to be a member.

[derfenrirwolv]

by my opinion, Roy's sword. It is recognised by roy to be a member.

No way! Roys sword was more useful against miko than V, elan, haley, durkon, and belkar combined!

[Orzel]

Durkon

Generic Dwarven Person who is religious, loves beer, and hate forest things.

[Mordokai]

Gotta say Belkar. I simply loathe the little creep. And his humor has never tickled me fancy either.

[Kaytara]

Hm, I disagree that Durkon is a bland dwarf cutout. While it's true that his personality is less... colourful... than that of the other members, and more subtle and in the background, there's more to him than beer, trees and Thor.

He's ready to step up and do what needs to be done, but he dislikes taking initiative for fear of doing the wrong thing. He prefers to let others lead, his deference to a respected authority is absolute. He, uh, seems to appreciate the idea of two females getting it on (his reaction to the two female paladins just confirms it). When not holding his peace, he can be really grumpy. When he's not grumpy, he's very quick to feel happy, especially for other people. He really disapproves of Belkar. He's extraordinarily humble and has no expectations of deserving what most people consider to be their common right. He's not just religious, he's devoted to the point of having no dreams and ambitions of his own beyond fulfilling his god's will, be that by remaining in eternal exile or by following Miko despite herself. For someone with low Charisma, he's very shrewd and understands people.

There. "Religious, tree-hating, Thor-loving regular dwarf" is not the way to describe him. It's not a bad start, but still just a start.

As for the thread question, I honestly don't know. Probably Roy, because he's the one that appeals to me least for his personality and most for the role he plays in the group dynamic. Ngg, gaah, I honestly don't know. I like all of them.

[Somewhere]

Belkar; he doesn't offer much for me.

[Forbiddenwar]

Agreed to all of Kaytara's points. Additionally, Durkon has some great moments in a few of the bonus strips.

Hmm, Belkar, V, Haley, Durkon, Roy, Elan. Tough call. I'm of the opinion that all these characters are necessary for the group dynamic. I think Belkar (though great and funny) could be kicked out with the least impact. He needs to be put on a Spin-Off Bus (Wink Wink Giant)

[Raging Gene Ray]

No way! Roys sword was more useful against miko than V, elan, haley, durkon, and belkar combined!

Hinjo helped a little. Also, if we're going to count Roy's sword, should we also count Blackwing, Mr. Scruffy and Banjo as members of the Order?

If so, I'd have to say Banjo. Sure he SEEMS popular...but like all clowns, he's dying inside, since nobody knows or loves the true Banjo, just the one with the makeup.

[Allan Surgite]

Can't we get a poll of some sort up?

Also; I would say that I dislike Belkar for being most of the reasons stated above.

Plus, all of the "BELKAR LIVESSS" threads, whereas it seems Cracklord is the only one who really wants to see Durkon live :(

Bless ye, Cracklord.

[Kish]

Plus, all of the "BELKAR LIVESSS" threads, whereas it seems Cracklord is the only one who really wants to see Durkon live :(
Be comforted by the knowledge that Durkon has a much better chance of actually being alive at the story's end than Belkar does.

For my part, I'd rather Durkon ended the story alive than dead, but since he doesn't actually care himself (he's just happy he'll get to be buried with his ancestors), it's hard to get worked up about it.

[Hardcore]

Stupid thread. Really.

[Sewblon]

Something about Roy always rubbed me the wrong way, but he is the one character The Giant can't kill forever or put on a bus. So I say Durkon, he is so underdeveloped you can pretty much ignore him.

[Bibliomancer]

Be comforted by the knowledge that Durkon has a much better chance of actually being alive at the story's end than Belkar does.

For my part, I'd rather Durkon ended the story alive than dead, but since he doesn't actually care himself (he's just happy he'll get to be buried with his ancestors), it's hard to get worked up about it.

Durkon is simply too featureless to be amusing. I prefer Belkar to Durkon, although not by a gigantic margin. Still, I think if Belkar stabbed Durkon and stole a Phylactery of Wisdom not many people (besides Roy, who would have to be the straight man) would complain.

[Kish]

Durkon is simply too featureless to be amusing. I prefer Belkar to Durkon, although not by a gigantic margin. Still, I think if Belkar stabbed Durkon and stole a Phylactery of Wisdom not many people (besides Roy, who would have to be the straight man) would complain.
You're kidding, right? Durkon's fans, who I can't imagine you've actually not noticed the existence of, would scream. A not insignificant number of Belkar's fans would howl that Belkar the Pacifist, forever, is worse than Stabby Belkar just plain being dead. Story-internally, Belkar would be lucky if the Order let him live long enough to notice that he'd changed.

[Optimystik]

Stupid thread. Really.

And yet you posted in it, so...

My vote is and has always been for Belkar. His overpowering machismo makes it impossible for me to sympathize with him. Even when he was fighting his way out of the curse, I was only cheering because it meant Haley would be saved.

[krossbow]

Roy. He just seems so self important, while having so little to offer the party besides being sane. If it wasn't for getting the God sword of plot convenience, he wouldn't even be able to tickle most of their opponents.


He just seems like every dm fiat to make fighters useful (Abnormally high stats in everything, minor artifact weapons at low levels, other party members played like sociopaths or idiots) rolled into one.

[Forbiddenwar]

He just seems like every dm fiat to make fighters useful (Abnormally high stats in everything, minor artifact weapons at low levels, other party members played like sociopaths or idiots) rolled into one.

Low Levels? I didn't realize level 15 was so low.

[Sewblon]

I would really like to have Elan, Durkon and Roy all put on a bus. I interpret Haley, Vaarsuvius and Belkar as interesting characters, and the other three as characters who interesting things happen to.

[drengnikrafe]

My favor towards characters are (in order) Vaarsuvius, Haley, Elan, Roy, Durkon, Belkar. The reasons (in order) are that I feel Vaarsuvius is similar to me, Haley's reasons for her actions, while at time shallow, amount to being the deepest, Elan is generally fun and hard to dislike (IMO), Roy is serious (making him less funny, while keeping people in line), Durkon is a too generic, and I strongly dislike evil.
Now, to expand on why I don't like Belkar. Many people find him the most funny. I find that his humor is right up alongside shows like (the fake show from Idiocracy) "Ow, my balls." My perception is that most of his jokes are throwaway jokes in the absence of real jokes, and they amount to "I stab it, and may or may not say something snarky while stabbing it". That's also his personality. As a result, every time he manages to kill something in a new way, or psychologically/physically hurt a member of the order (or really anybody) I cringe. I understand he's needed to balance the party, but that doesn't mean I like him.

[Cracklord]

I want Belkar to get a terminal case of this (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BrotherChuck).

All over the friggin' place.

However, the order only really NEEDS Durkon. The rest are just there to flesh it out, and to give Durkon people with interesting humorously conflicting personalities to talk to. As the comic becomes more serious and plot oriented, this is becoming less important, and I suspect each of them will fade into the background or put on a bus as the story unfolds.


Durkon is simply too featureless to be amusing. I prefer Belkar to Durkon, although not by a gigantic margin. Still, I think if Belkar stabbed Durkon and stole a Phylactery of Wisdom not many people (besides Roy, who would have to be the straight man) would complain.

You just crossed a terrible threshold.

Incidentally, Durkon is far better characterized the Belkar. Simply because he has real relationships with the other characters, and can be observed to interact differently with different people.
His characterization is subtle. He doesn't force it in your face every strip, but it's there. He is a good, pious person trying to be a mentor figure, who is humble and so reluctant to take the spotlight himself. How do you develop that? He's already wise, and doesn't have any obvious flaws. But when he does come to the foreground, he consistently brings awesome with him in a way unmatched by any other character.

Belkar either wants to stab it or have sex with it. That is pretty much it.

Belkar got kicked out of the Order for killing the oracle. Now imagine what would happen if he killed the character who, when you get right down to it, is their best chance of dealing with Xykon.

In addition, everyone likes Durkon. V respects him, Haley is friends with him, he's Roy's best friend, and Elan respects his judgment. Nobody likes Belkar.

[Sewblon]

I want Belkar to get a terminal case of this (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BrotherChuck).

All over the friggin' place.

However, the order only really NEEDS Durkon. The rest are just there to flesh it out, and to give Durkon people with interesting humorously conflicting personalities to talk to. As the comic becomes more serious and plot oriented, this is becoming less important, and I suspect each of them will fade into the background or put on a bus as the story unfolds. Just as Team Evil's attempts to gain control of the Snarl and conquer the world have already faded away to give way for Durkon's war against the trees.

[Cracklord]

Just as Team Evil's attempts to gain control of the Snarl and conquer the world have already faded away to give way for Durkon's war against the trees.

Yeah, this side-quest is becoming less important, and soon will probably be wrapped up so we can focus on what the strip is really about.

[Sewblon]

Yeah, this side-quest is becoming less important, and soon will probably be wrapped up so we can focus on what the strip is really about. I should hope so. We have seen exactly one tree since the hiatus ended, and Durkon didn't even beat it!

[Cracklord]

I should hope so. We have seen exactly one tree since the hiatus ended, and Durkon didn't even beat it!

Well, it's a high challenge rating opponent.

Just one tree has Colossal size, natural armor, damage reduction, hundreds of hitpoints, and enough limbs to make a dozen or more attacks per round.

He would have beat it, to, if it wasn't for another member getting in his way and holding him back.

[Sewblon]

Well, it's a high challenge rating opponent.

Just one tree has Colossal size, natural armor, damage reduction, hundreds of hitpoints, and enough limbs to make a dozen or more attacks per round.

He would have beat it, to, if it wasn't for another member getting in his way and holding him back. The rest of the Order wanted him to give up too... they really should never have been in this comic. They have been obstructing the main plot since the second book.

[73 Bits of Lint]

Durkon is a plain, normally intelligent dwarf who turns into a complete retard in the presence of trees. Or, that is to say, he turns into a complete retard in the presence of trees whenever Rich decides to make a joke about him turning into a complete retard in the presence of trees, because there is no way someone could constantly act that way and still manage to travel in a temperate climate.
Yeah, I really don't like that joke. It makes no sense, and it annoys me every time it comes up, although it was somewhat satisfying to see Belkar use some corrective measures on Durkon after his last freak-out.
So, Durkon. If it weren't for the tree-thing, I'd love every last one of them, but every time Durkon starts trying to fight trees that aren't magically animated, I just wish someone would smack him.

[krossbow]

Low Levels? I didn't realize level 15 was so low.

In a campaign where magic items are hard to come by and where your party members are carrying around +5 weapons way AFTER roy got his, a weapon like Roy's +5 Deus ex machina burst sword is far above par

[Turkish Delight]

Hm, I disagree that Durkon is a bland dwarf cutout. While it's true that his personality is less... colourful... than that of the other members, and more subtle and in the background, there's more to him than beer, trees and Thor.

He's ready to step up and do what needs to be done, but he dislikes taking initiative for fear of doing the wrong thing. He prefers to let others lead, his deference to a respected authority is absolute. He, uh, seems to appreciate the idea of two females getting it on (his reaction to the two female paladins just confirms it). When not holding his peace, he can be really grumpy. When he's not grumpy, he's very quick to feel happy, especially for other people. He really disapproves of Belkar. He's extraordinarily humble and has no expectations of deserving what most people consider to be their common right. He's not just religious, he's devoted to the point of having no dreams and ambitions of his own beyond fulfilling his god's will, be that by remaining in eternal exile or by following Miko despite herself. For someone with low Charisma, he's very shrewd and understands people.

There. "Religious, tree-hating, Thor-loving regular dwarf" is not the way to describe him. It's not a bad start, but still just a start.

But pretty much every character outgrowth we've seen and you've listed is either very mild (the 'let others take the lead' thing, which I barely noticed, or the suggestion that Durkon gets off on hot lesbian paladins getting it on in a fit of steamy forbidden passion...who doesn't?) or is still just a branch-off of the 'dwarves are all the same' routine (ooohh, a grumpy dwarf!)

It feels almost less like character development and more like incidental by-products of a character who has to behave in some reasonably recognizable pattern or another over the course of 687 strips. It's like stopping Haley's character at 'she likes using bows and is secretive' while doing nothing further with that.

At least they don't have any scenes of him getting sick on the refugee boat that I can remember. A dwarf cliche too far, I guess.

[Zevox]

He just seems like every dm fiat to make fighters useful (Abnormally high stats in everything, minor artifact weapons at low levels, other party members played like sociopaths or idiots) rolled into one.
Er, what?

"Abnormally high stats?" No, he just has high strength and con (presumably, since he seems to be an effective Fighter - could even just be high strength and decent con) and decent mental scores. Probably pretty poor dex, given that.

"Minor artifact weapons at low levels?" No, he just got a +5 Undead Bane sword around level 13 or 14. That's barely more powerful than you would expect someone of that level to have. Certainly not a minor artifact. And Haley has since acquired a bow that is even more powerful (+5 Icy Burst is +7 equivalent, while +5 Undead Bane is +6 equivalent) while being most likely only one level above what Roy was at when he acquired his sword.

"Other characters played like sociopaths or idiots?" No, that's just Elan and Belkar. Durkon, Haley, and V always contribute to fights just fine (save for when Durkon refused to fight Miko). Hell, even Belkar contributes just fine in spite of (and sometimes because of) being a sociopath.

Roy is a legitimately good melee Fighter, probably the best combatant of the Order other than the full casters (V and Durkon). It's really hard not to have a decent meleer if you're using a two-handed weapon and power attack and don't have crappy strength. You want a character whose effectiveness is determined by plot ("DM fiat") rather than the rules, look at Belkar, the guy dual-wielding small size daggers.

Zevox

[Catch]

The apologies for Durkon have failed to convince me. He's two dimensional, and what you infer from his character is tangential to what's actually portrayed. Functionally, he exists to heal wounds and shake his head at Belkar (and now V) for various misdeeds. There's been perfunctory attention paid to his origin, but after the bit with Hilgya in the first book, Durkon has been grey and bland. No character development, no side-stories. He's scenery - a tree with stubby legs, and if he disappeared it'd take us all five strips to notice.

[Kish]

and if he disappeared it'd take us all five strips to notice.
Will you please stop claiming to speak for "us all"?

[Cracklord]

if he disappeared it'd take us all five strips to notice.

Given the amount of people who enjoy Durkon (myself especially included), I suspect you are making something of a generalization there.

[Prak]

Durkon. I see nothing of interest there.

Roy's the badass leader guy with an actual sense of humour
Haley's the morally gray rogue, who also has a sense of humour
V and Belkar are very much like parts of me, though Belkar needs to learn a few things still
Elan is at least more entertaining than Durkon.

Durkon's some LG dwarf cleric who's almost never funny.

There's also the fact that I don't take well to "good" religious types

[Pigkappa]

I have to say Vaarsuvius, but I think that all of the main characters are well-made and with enough deepness (except Belkar, but that's on purpose and it makes perfectly sense). Anyway, the one I just can't bear is Miko.




Yeah, I really don't like that joke. It makes no sense, and it annoys me every time it comes up, although it was somewhat satisfying to see Belkar use some corrective measures on Durkon after his last freak-out.
So, Durkon. If it weren't for the tree-thing, I'd love every last one of them, but every time Durkon starts trying to fight trees that aren't magically animated, I just wish someone would smack him.

I also think that, if the joke about trees was funny the first time, it's getting boring by now. Being so stupid whenever a tree is nearby doesn't really fit for the character, which is really well-defined and interesting except for that recurring idiocy.



He, uh, seems to appreciate the idea of two females getting it on (his reaction to the two female paladins just confirms it).

what are you talking (typing?) about? :smalleek:

[Zevox]

The apologies for Durkon have failed to convince me. He's two dimensional, and what you infer from his character is tangential to what's actually portrayed. Functionally, he exists to heal wounds and shake his head at Belkar (and now V) for various misdeeds. There's been perfunctory attention paid to his origin, but after the bit with Hilgya in the first book, Durkon has been grey and bland. No character development, no side-stories. He's scenery - a tree with stubby legs, and if he disappeared it'd take us all five strips to notice.
Agreed. All of the "characterization" Cracklord and others attributed to Durkon is nothing more than a summary of the usual Dwarven Cleric stereotypes. Which is appropriate, as that's all Durkon is or has ever been. Even the bit with Hilgya only served to reinforce that. To quote the final strip of that sub-plot:

"Bein' a Dwarf is about doin' yer duty even if it makes miserable. ESPECIALLY if it makes ye miserable!"
"My mum taught me tha' I should always take feelings like that, and bury them in a deep, dark part o' my soul and nev'r ev'r talk about 'em again. That's tha Dwarven way."

Yeah.

I really hope that some version of the "Durkon will end up as an undead in Xykon's army and attack his homeland" prediction comes true, preferably one in which he is a sapient undead. Would be the first interesting thing he's ever done, outside of a few jokes.

Zevox

[Katana_Geldar]

While I don't like all the Order equally (Elan is my favourite with Roy coming a close second) I consider there is something to like about all of them. With Belkar, to like him is to like him in a sort of negative way, sort of the same way we like Darth Vader. He's evil, he's baddass, and he's soo fricking COOL and gets a lot of the best lines.

I can totally see how he is the least popular person in the order, but I think Rich was referring to in the title how popular he is among the other order members.

Who could you say in the order likes him? Roy tolerates him and lets him travel with them as it's the best aprt of a bad deal, Elan does not get him at all and is blind to Belkar's deception sometimes, Haley accepts the fact that he's saved her life but she knows he is out for himself, Vaarsuvius thinks that associating with someone like him is an insult to V's intelligence, and Durkon (after tolerating Belkar in a similar fashion to Roy) has realised what it is like when he (rather than Elan or V) is the brunt of one of Belkar's jokes.

The only one who likes him is Mr Scruffy, and I consider cats chaotic neutral so enough said there.

[krossbow]

Er, what?

"Abnormally high stats?" No, he just has high strength and con (presumably, since he seems to be an effective Fighter - could even just be high strength and decent con) and decent mental scores. Probably pretty poor dex, given that.


He has an array of mental stats that make him prefferable to all other party members when a mindflayer starts to chow down; this indicates high levels of mental stats as well. he has NO dump stats while still maintaining more than enough stats in his primary ones to operate effectively. If you don't think thats abnormally high then i'm not sure how you do you your stats.



"Minor artifact weapons at low levels?" No, he just got a +5 Undead Bane sword around level 13 or 14. That's barely more powerful than you would expect someone of that level to have. Certainly not a minor artifact. And Haley has since acquired a bow that is even more powerful (+5 Icy Burst is +7 equivalent, while +5 Undead Bane is +6 equivalent) while being most likely only one level above what Roy was at when he acquired his sword.

Thats MUCH more than a simple +5 undead bane weapon. Starmetal in this strip is some sort of ungodly Roided up starmetal. Normally, starmetal just bypasses adamantine dr and deals an additional 1d6 damage to outsiders on the material plane. It bypassed Sabine's DR easily while also glowing green, indicating that it Bypasses damage reduction and still maintains its original purpose for kicks (along with other abilities, such as harming undead). Furthermore it bypassed Xykon's DR despite NOT being a bludgeoning weapon (since liches require magical bludgeoning weapon). it basically just seems to be like the juggernaut and say "Screw you!" to any and all DR it comes into contact with.

This thing is far, FAR more than a simple +6 weapon, and he got it hundreds of strips before anyone else got similiar weapons. Not to mention its custom built to take out the BBEG and other minor villians of the strip due to what amounts to the DM deciding it should (as the NPC's were the ones who informed Roy of its powers and made it for him, purely on their own).


"Other characters played like sociopaths or idiots?" No, that's just Elan and Belkar. Durkon, Haley, and V always contribute to fights just fine (save for when Durkon refused to fight Miko). Hell, even Belkar contributes just fine in spite of (and sometimes because of) being a sociopath.


Roy's One saving grace is being sane. Durkon has a tree phobia and general inability to act, Haley was disabled with a crippling social disability for almost 1/3 of the strip, and V has a whole slew of neurosis's due to His/her wizard ego. The only reason they need him, and can't just pick up any other piece of meat off the street, is due to their crippling idiocies (hence why they fell apart when he died).

[Mystic Muse]

Durkon? what's a Durkon?

Belkar is the least popular member in my opinion. He's funny but, like I've said before, I won't miss him when he's gone.

[Catch]

Will you please stop claiming to speak for "us all"?

"Us" implies a majority. Do you really hold your personal opinion in such high esteem that it ought to count more than the many others that disagree? Perhaps a little modesty in the future might be in order.


Given the amount of people who enjoy Durkon (myself especially included), I suspect you are making something of a generalization there.

What amount? I suspect you're misrepresenting the population of people who share your views.

[Lissou]

I don't care much for Haley. I used to really like Belkar and Elan, but Elan changed when he became a Dashing Swordsman, and Belkar got boring :P V got more interesting lately, though.

Roy and Durkon I find neutral.

But the members of OOTS aren't my favourite characters in the series. I prefer the various villains by far.

[Haggis]

Belkar

Let's face it he's a character ether you like or hate. There may be people who don't care about durkon, but there are many who just plain dislike belkar.

[Berserk Monk]

Elan*



*I'd say Belkar, but he'd just kill me if I did.

[Zevox]

He has an array of mental stats that make him prefferable to all other party members when a mindflayer starts to chow down; this indicates high levels of mental stats as well. he has NO dump stats while still maintaining more than enough stats in his primary ones to operate effectively. If you don't think thats abnormally high then i'm not sure how you do you your stats.
His mental stats are not high, simply balanced. Rich confirmed a long time ago that the Mind Flayer preferred him because he had decent, balanced scores in each. Whereas the others had, at best, only one of them high, while others were low (V - int, low cha; D - wis, low cha; E - cha, low int & wis). And as mentioned, his dexterity is almost surely poor - that would be his dump stat, given what we know of his abilities and stats otherwise.


Thats MUCH more than a simple +5 undead bane weapon. Starmetal in this strip is some sort of ungodly Roided up starmetal. Normally, starmetal just bypasses adamantine dr and deals an additional 1d6 damage to outsiders on the material plane. It bypassed Sabine's DR easily while ALSO glowing green, indicating that it Bypasses damage reduction and still maintains its original purpose for kicks (along with other abilities, such as harming undead). Furthermore it bypassed Xykon's DR despite NOT being a bludgeoning weapon (since liches require magical bludgeoning weapon). it basically just seems to be like the juggernaut and say "Screw you!" to any and all DR it comes into contact with.

This thing is far, FAR more than a simple +6 weapon, and he got it HUNDREDS of strips before anyone else got similiar weapons. Not to mention its CUSTOM BUILT to take out the BBEG and other minor villians of the strip due to what amounts to the DM deciding it should (as the NPC's were the ones who informed Roy of its powers and made it for him, purely on their own).
You're making some serious assumptions there. When the sword was reforged, we were told it would be +5 and deal extra damage to the undead - that's it. I don't know what "starmetal" you're referencing that bypasses DR and whatnot, but it does not seem to be what the Giant is using here. Particularly with your assertion that it bypasses Xykon's DR, which is totally unfounded (on Sabine you may have a slight point since it does glow while battling her, but I'd require more evidence than merely that before accepting the assertion that it is also unusually effective against outsiders, given no mention was made of such back when the sword was reforged, and given Roy had to wait out her enhancement spells to beat her).

Also, the number of strips he got it before Haley received her bow doesn't matter. The group still had not progressed much in levels in between receiving the two, and you were complaining about him receiving it at a low level. If that were the case, you should also complain about Haley's bow, which is why I brought it up. (Also, we do not know what level the others' weapons are at, aside from Elan's +3 Keen Rapier.)


Roy's One saving grace is being sane. Durkon has a tree phobia and general inability to act, Haley was disabled with a crippling social disability for almost 1/3 of the strip, and V has a whole slew of neurosis's due to His/her wizard ego. The only reason they need him, and can't just pick up any other piece of meat off the street, is due to their crippling idiocies (hence why they fell apart when he died).
Hardly. Again, Roy is perfectly legitimately combatant, which is a fine contribution to the party - exactly as much as everyone else contributes, and more than Elan does, under your reasoning, where everyone else is so utterly crippled by mental troubles. And you also seem to have forgotten that the whole quest stemmed from Roy's in the first place. He organized the Order, gave them their initial mission. Any other fighter would not have done that, and we'd have an entirely different story.

And incidentally, if you complain that they could "just pick up any other <insert class role here> off the street" for Roy were it not for what you see as his "one saving grace," why not make the same complaint about everyone else, who don't even have that "one saving grace?" Why can't the Order just replace everyone with any other member of their classes who lacks their mental problems? Seriously, some of these complaints you're making are just ridiculous.

Zevox

[Kish]

"Us" implies a majority. Do you really hold your personal opinion in such high esteem that it ought to count more than the many others that disagree?
Oddly enough, if you had said "none of the people who find Durkon boring would miss him for five strips," there would have been nothing to object to in your claim. But--for whatever reason, you apparently preferred a wider, less accurate assertion.

[krossbow]

You're making some serious assumptions there. When the sword was reforged, we were told it would be +5 and deal extra damage to the undead - that's it. I don't know what "starmetal" you're referencing that bypasses DR and whatnot, but it does not seem to be what the Giant is using here. Particularly with your assertion that it bypasses Xykon's DR, which is totally unfounded (on Sabine you may have a slight point since it does glow while battling her, but I'd require more evidence than merely that before accepting the assertion that it is also unusually effective against outsiders, given no mention was made of such back when the sword was reforged, and given Roy had to wait out her enhancement spells to beat her).



Dude. Starmetal is a item in dungeons and dragons. Roy's sword is FORGED of starmetal. The "Starmetal" would be the stuff used in strip. That would be the "starmetal" i'm talking about.

In dungeons and dragons Starmetal does two, and only two things. It bypasses DR as if it were adamantine and it deals an extra 1d6 points of damage to outsiders on the material plane. In this strip it seems to do MUCH, MUCH more.

I'm sorry, but unless thats bypassing sabine and Xykon's DR, then Roy has got to have UNGODLY high strength scores to be doling out the damage he does. Demons and devils have HUGE DR, and Xykon as a lich has 15/bludgeoning and magic. Xykon was absolutely COVERED in wounds after the fight with Roy. There's no way he was doing anything more than a few piddly damage unless that was bypassing Damage reduction.

Roy's Starmetal, as i have stated, is an obscenely powerful material in teh strip and not the fairly average substance in normal D&D; and if its more powerful than normal starmetal you HAVE to take that into account when looking at the items relative power.

Secondly, the fact that he got his hundreds of pages before everyone else was just an indicator that he got his at least one, if not two levels before anyone got anything even ressembling it in power, and most probably weaker.

[Cracklord]

First up, "Ah, the wonders of power attack."
Second, the green energy was probably holy burst or the like, since it is only present some of the time.
Third, it is far from overpowered. Yes, it's having an effect, but find me a fighter who can't do more then fifteen damage in a single attack at level fifteen wielding a two handed weapon, and whatever you have found isn't a fighter, but an impostor.

However, icy burst 5+ longbow is about the same, only without the cool ore, and why waste equipment on Belkar? He'll be dead and rotting soon.
I seem to remember him spending two hundred odd strips with a non-magic club and a bag of tricks, while the rest of the order had far better equipment. Were you complaining then, or is it just all aimed at Roy.

[Zevox]

Dude. Starmetal is a item in dungeons and dragons. Roy's sword is FORGED of starmetal. The "Starmetal" would be the stuff used in strip. That would be the "starmetal" i'm talking about.
And there's where you're making an assumption. That the starmetal in this strip is whatever D&D starmetal you're referring to. You note yourself that what they do does not match up, and the Giant generally does not use things from non-core sources without lampshading it or joking about it. So it seems a poor assumption to me. (Plus, Roy's sword is not made of starmetal, but merely has some forged into it as an alloy - there was too little to make the full blade out of it, remember?)


I'm sorry, but unless thats bypassing sabine and Xykon's DR, then Roy has got to have UNGODLY high strength scores to be doling out the damage he does. Demons and devils have HUGE DR, and Xykon as a lich has 15/bludgeoning and magic. Xykon was absolutely COVERED in wounds after the fight with Roy. There's no way he was doing anything more than a few piddly damage unless that was bypassing Damage reduction.
One, Power Attack. We know Roy has it, it gives him +2 damage for each 1 point of attack he gives up, up to at least +26 for full use. It's a standard, very important feat for any melee fighter. That, plus the sword's +5 and extra undead damage (+2 flat and +1d6), plus high strength multiplied by 1.5 for using a two-handed weapon, plus the already-high dice damage of a greatsword (2d6) gives Roy plenty of potential to hurt Xykon. Especially when you also factor in that Xykon was just sitting there letting him hit him, unconcerned - which seems to mean that whatever damage Roy was inflicting was not so great as you try to make it out to be.

Two, Sabine is a succubus. That's only DR 10. He can roll higher than that with just his sword's unmodified damage. Just being a +5 sword is plenty to allow Roy to hurt her quite consistently with any reasonable strength (an 18 alone means he does 2d6+11 damage per swing, for a net 2d6+1 with DR factored in), and especially with power attack. Still a significant defense for Sabine, but nothing that renders Roy anywhere near useless.


Secondly, the fact that he got his hundreds of pages before everyone else was just an indicator that he got his at least one, if not two levels before anyone got anything even ressembling it in power, and most probably weaker.
Level estimates place the Order around level 13 during the Azure City events, and 14 now. They have not advanced much since he received that weapon. And Haley just got an even more powerful one.

Zevox

[Prak]

Current rankings:
Roy 1
Haley 1
V 2
Elan 2
Durkon 8
Belkar 14

so... yes, as far as the boards are represented, Belkar's the least popular character, with Durkon second

And to be honest, as far as the order's concerned, Belkar's the least popular, with probably V in second.

What'd be nice is if V and Belkar came to an understanding that allowed them to be friends and leave the order behind.

[AstralFire]

Sticking solely to least popular and not least interesting, Durkon. He causes the least strong reactions either way, which is a sure bet to lose a popularity contest.

[Vortling]

Add another vote for Durkon. As much as I like the character he's simply not had enough screen/spotlight time for his character to develop enough for most people to establish any sort of attachment. Contrast that with Belkar whom at least provokes reactions from his detractors.
*crosses his fingers and hopes Durkon gets some character development before the comic ends*

[dr Jack]

I love them all. But if I've to decide who's the least popular I vote for:
Varsavius.

She (he) talks too complex :P.

But it's really a difficult choice.

[Waggy]

I like all the OotS, they are awesome. That said, whats wrong with Durkon? In my opinion he gets some of the best lines in the strip! "PUPPETS CANNAE EVEN EAT PIE!!!" (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0561.html) In my opinion is his Crowning Moment of Funny.

[Pigkappa]

Xykon was absolutely COVERED in wounds after the fight with Roy.

This is not correct IMO. In http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0446.html he has just 4 scratches; I would say that he is "covered in wounds" when he is like this: http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0459.html .

That sword is probably a little stronger than the usual sword a fighter of his level has, but considering that they went through a long quest just to have that sword, that Roy didn't find many other decent item in the last 2 or 3 levels and that he's the leader of the party, I think it is not really overpowered.

[Kaytara]

Er, what?

"Abnormally high stats?" No, he just has high strength and con (presumably, since he seems to be an effective Fighter - could even just be high strength and decent con) and decent mental scores. Probably pretty poor dex, given that.

Eh, the high stats complaint is valid, I think. Both from a technical perspective, as in what the Class and Level Geekery thread people have inferred...


Str ≥20 (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/../comics/oots0004.html) (from magic item or level boost*)
Dex ~10 (no evidence)
Con ≥16 (consistent with Giant's description of Miko fight*)
Int 14-18 (“very good"*, but V's Int is "higher"*)
Wis ≥14 (“very good"*)
Cha ≥12 (“decent*)

...and from a pure story perspective, as well. You say he probably has low Dexterity, but we don't see any of that. We don't see him stumbling over his feet or anything. In fact, he seems perfectly fine balancing on the neck of a flying zombie dragon a hundred feet in the air. Seems like solid dexterity to me.


All of the "characterization" Cracklord and others attributed to Durkon is nothing more than a summary of the usual Dwarven Cleric stereotypes.

I must be off on my stereotypes, then. :smallconfused: The thing about being afraid to take initiative at the very least, seems, to me, a rather atypical thing for the typical brash dwarf to be.

I admit I have little experience with dwarves, not being a DnD player. Maybe that's why I see a personality where you guys see a copy of a personality and a stereotype, though I don't quite agree with that. Stereotype implies that one could replace Durkon with any typical dwarf and we wouldn't notice the difference. Replace him with, say, Gimli, or Khelgar, or Ghim... And I think the difference would be quite noticeable.


what are you talking (typing?) about? :smalleek:

Two things. One, there's the fact that Durkon listened in - with a smile, no less - to Haley and V's innuendo at the inn. Second, there's a bonus strip in War and XPs, where two female paladins are making out in a tavern, and it goes something like this:
:belkar: When even the Lawful Good honeys are getting freaky, you know it's a sweet party.
:durkon: :smallsmile: Aye, nice.
:vaarsuvius: I fail to see anything out of the ordinary.
:belkar: Why am I not surprised?


Also, the number of strips he got it before Haley received her bow doesn't matter. The group still had not progressed much in levels in between receiving the two, and you were complaining about him receiving it at a low level. If that were the case, you should also complain about Haley's bow, which is why I brought it up.

With due respect, Haley got the bow at 15th level. 15th. Roy got the uber sword at 13th, possibly 12th level.

There's also the fact that the Order seems to be quite low on good equipment in general. Aside from the very recent upgrades of Haley's bow, boots and armour, Elan's belt and Roy's girdle, they were rather poorly-outfitted for most of the strip. Roy seemed to only have a single healing potion for the Azure City battle, V only a few scrolls, Elan got a semi-powerful rapier, but there wasn't any real powerful equipment to speak of. Excepting Roy's shiny big sword.

[Catch]

Oddly enough, if you had said "none of the people who find Durkon boring would miss him for five strips," there would have been nothing to object to in your claim. But--for whatever reason, you apparently preferred a wider, less accurate assertion.

And that assertion doesn't say anything that can't already be inferred. No, I think that even people who like Durkon wouldn't notice his absence, because he's such a non-entity. You're welcome to disagree, but one person does not a significant minority make, and the situation is completely hypothetical anyway.

[Dark Faun]

Roy indeed seems to have good stats, but so does Xykon, who seems to have an inhuman strength (fitting for a lich, I guess).

For me, it's either Roy or Belkar. I don't mind Durkon even if he's just... there. But I don't find Roy as compelling as Vaarsuvius or Haley (or Miko), and I really didn't like Shojo (be he real or not) helping Belkar get away with his evil while calling himself Good, so it decreased my opinion of Belkar.

[Janmorel]

Another vote for Belkar.

Like most of the characters in the strip, I find Belkar to be a sociopathic jackass with little to no redeeming qualities. Sure, he's a good melee fighter, but only as long as you keep him pointed at the enemy. As Haley eventually realized (twice), constantly having to babysit the guy to keep allies and innocent bystanders out of stabbing range gets to be more trouble than he's worth. And while he gets the occasional good joke, I tend to find his shtick disturbing or annoying more often than I find it funny. I hope he gets a good death, and I hope it sticks.

[Zevox]

I admit I have little experience with dwarves, not being a DnD player. Maybe that's why I see a personality where you guys see a copy of a personality and a stereotype, though I don't quite agree with that.
Probably, yes.


Stereotype implies that one could replace Durkon with any typical dwarf and we wouldn't notice the difference. Replace him with, say, Gimli, or Khelgar, or Ghim... And I think the difference would be quite noticeable.
Don't know who Ghim is, but with Gimli and Khelgar, that's because they're not Clerics (and Gimli isn't a D&D character). Replace Durkon with any other typical Dwarven Cleric, and nobody would notice the difference unless he was clearly drawn differently or everyone called him by a different name. Heck, Rich drew attention to this when Haley and Celia were describing him for the Sending spell, remember?


With due respect, Haley got the bow at 15th level. 15th. Roy got the uber sword at 13th, possibly 12th level.
That's only if you believe the argument that she must have Improved Precise Shot due to her comment about the seeking bow, which I'm not inclined to agree with myself. It does not seem likely to me that she is suddenly a level ahead of everyone else in the Order. Thus she would have gotten the bow at 14th level.


There's also the fact that the Order seems to be quite low on good equipment in general. Aside from the very recent upgrades of Haley's bow, boots and armour, Elan's belt and Roy's girdle, they were rather poorly-outfitted for most of the strip. Roy seemed to only have a single healing potion for the Azure City battle, V only a few scrolls, Elan got a semi-powerful rapier, but there wasn't any real powerful equipment to speak of. Excepting Roy's shiny big sword.
Ah, minor problem though - those are only the items we know of. It's not like the comic is going to draw attention to every magic piece of armor or supportive equipment they pick up, or weapons without fancy extra effects beyond just +# enhancements (we didn't find out Haley's old bow was +3 until Crystal destroyed it, for instance). I seem to recall someone mentioning that a bonus strip in War & XPs even has Belkar throwing out a Ring of Protection with a low bonus as though it were nothing, implying he had better equipment (granted, I do not have War & XPs myself, so perhaps I'm misremembering a post or the poster in question was lying, but I clearly remember reading that somewhere on these forums in the past). That's quite different from them being poorly outfitted with little magical equipment.

Zevox

[thubby]

Ah, minor problem though - those are only the items we know of. It's not like the comic is going to draw attention to every magic piece of armor or supportive equipment they pick up, or weapons without fancy extra effects beyond just +# enhancements (we didn't find out Haley's old bow was +3 until Crystal destroyed it, for instance). I seem to recall someone mentioning that a bonus strip in War & XPs even has Belkar throwing out a Ring of Protection with a low bonus as though it were nothing, implying he had better equipment (granted, I do not have War & XPs myself, so perhaps I'm misremembering a post or the poster in question was lying, but I clearly remember reading that somewhere on these forums in the past). That's quite different from them being poorly outfitted with little magical equipment.

Zevox

the fact he's excited about a belt of giant strength, something almost any fighter in his level range would have, and his earlier complaints of being stuck with those bags should be some indication of at least roy's lack of proper gear.

as to his weapon, i believe it is an ancestral weapon (i forget which book) that would make it possible for him to pile on enhancements with relative ease.

[Pronounceable]

"Us" implies a majority. Do you really hold your personal opinion in such high esteem that it ought to count more than the many others that disagree?
I do.

Also, I'm loath to do this but thou shall stop picking on Durkon (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TropesAreTools?from=Main.TropesAreNotBad).

Also also, I agree that Durkon would be least popular if MY opinion didn't count for so much. As it is, that's Elan. As said above, he's not interesting himself, interesting things happen to and around him. He's been steadily improving but he's still at the bottom of the protagonist pile.

[LuisDantas]

Regarding the OP's question:

Belkar, as far as I am concerned. Hands down.

[Querzis]

Belkar. I like him more since his fake character development and he made me laugh lots of times but hes still annoying. Beside, the main reason Roy hasnt killed him is because now he know Belkar is gonna die anyway and the only reason Roy had not killed him before his own death is because he thought he could actually control him (which definitly isnt true and he know that now.) So even if Belkar woudnt die soon, he still coudnt stay a member of the Order anyway.

And yes, Durkon is not funny but I dont like or dislike character just based on if they are funny or not. Durkon is admirable and reliable, thats more then enough to be a better character then Belkar.

[Scarlet Knight]

I dislike V the most, barely edging out Belkar.

Belkar is redeemed by comedy, & that he loves good food & sex, like many of us.

V likes books over candle-lit dinners, power over family.

Belkar can't even conceive of a gift without strings, thus I forgive his psycho view of the world. Face it, without Roy, he would out-evil the spawn of Sauron & Cruella.

I keep wanting to slap V, who should know better, but lets his pride cloud his intelligence.

[Mary Leathert]

I have never liked Belkar. I like intelligent characters who actually understand things from perspectives other than their own and stop to think before they act. In Belkar's case, failing at the latter usually leads to pointless violence, which is one other thing I don't like, and never found funny. Okay, he has started to develop in that respect, and I'm interested in seeing where it leads to, but at the moment, Belkar is my least favorite.

[Gullara]

Both the things said so far I completely disagree with. Yes, Elan does sometimes just have things "happen" to him, istead of making them happen. Yes, Belkar is a horrible little murderous bastard. But they are both absolutely HILARIOUS!!!

I don't have a least favourite. The entire order is awesome.

I have to agree with you there.

[AstralFire]

To speak on a personal level:

Durkon I find the least interesting, but I still like him more than:
Vaarsuvius who has simultaneously managed to become more interesting and less likeable, in my opinion. He redeemed himself somewhat, but...
Belkar, who was completely uninteresting and unlikeable but has slowly begun to improve in those regards. At the moment, I prefer him to V.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

I'd've said V until recent developments. Now... Haley. Despite having the bonuses of #1 being a gal, and #2 being a redhead gal... she's always kinda irritated me.

[Metool2]

Roy. Now that's not to say I DON'T like him, just that he is the least liked among the group for me.

Now that I think about it... Maybe Durkon afterall. Great guy, has great points. But all too often he feels like he comes across as just a tacked on chara to be there to heal. He has done great things, but he just doesn't stand out.

However, with Elan, Belkar, and V being fleshed out now... Maybe Durkon is next. XD I look forward to it if it is.

[Zolkabro]

Every Belkar vote makes me want to cry!
He's not just a Halfling!
He's not just a Ranger with a sprinke of Barbarian!
He's not just Chaotic Evil!
He's not just Comedy Gold!
He's not just the only funny thing left in this damn comic strip!
HE IS A SEXY SHOELESS GOD OF WAR!!!!!!! (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0610.html)

[Asis]

Am I the only one who finds V the most interesting character in the party? Sure, he/she WAS annoying , but he/she got better.

About the thread's question... yeah, my vote goes to the lil' ranger. Why? Well, 'cause he's a linear character, predictable, overused, plain, shallow... you know the rest.
In fact, since Greycity, the only interest I've held on Belkar is about his inevitable death.

[Berserk Monk]

Now that I think about it... Maybe Durkon afterall. Great guy, has great points. But all too often he feels like he comes across as just a tacked on chara to be there to heal. He has done great things, but he just doesn't stand out.

What, Durkon's the most easy to get along with character:

He won't annoy you with puppets or insane ideas.
He won't try to pick your pocket or steal any treasure.
He won't blast you into fiery arcane death.
He won't stab you for boredom's sake.
He isn't a pompous leader type.

Yeah, Durkon's awesome.

[Cracklord]

Every Belkar vote makes me want to cry!

So he's a narcissist as well as boring?

[73 Bits of Lint]

So he's a narcissist as well as boring?
I don't see how people could call Belkar boring. Repellent or obnoxious, yeah, but boring? Yeah, he kills stuff alot, but saying his whole bit is just "I stab stuff" is like saying the Three Stooges whole bit was just "I hit stuff."
Of course, I also don't get the complaints of Durkon being two dimensional. He's not particularly original, wacky or subversive, but he is a developed character.

[Optimystik]

What, Durkon's the most easy to get along with character:

He won't annoy you with puppets or insane ideas.
He won't try to pick your pocket or steal any treasure.
He won't blast you into fiery arcane death.
He won't stab you for boredom's sake.
He isn't a pompous leader type.

Yeah, Durkon's awesome.

By that metric, Mr. Scruffy is every bit as awesome, or Elan's shoes.

[Big Hungry Joe]

My least favorite is Roy. I don't hate him, but I do find him boring and, frankly, not much of a leader. For all his schooling and strategizing, he makes an awful lot of mistakes. Beyond mundane common sense stuff like using that absurd club instead of the spare magic sword, he acted quite foolish with the whole ring of jumping thing against Xykon. He not only admits being surprised by the tactic of the flying invisible dragon, he then abandons any strategy or city defense and leaps on board like a lunatic (even Belkar couldn't believe it). Worse, he then ignored repeated offers by Xykon to be set down later in order to take a "mulligan" and earn more levels. When a lich riding an undead dragon magnanimously offers you a do-over, you take it. Heck, at that point he would have delayed Xykon more just by asking him to land and set him on the ground somewhere than he did actually fighting him. Not sure the fight to defend Azure City would have gone much better if he'd been actively involved on the ground instead of falling to his death, but it's hard to see how it could have gone worse.

Basically, over time I've come to prefer Roy's obnoxious father to Roy himself. Particularly in # 485, which pretty much rips Roy up one side and down the other. OOTS should adopt O-Chul as the new leader, and relegate Roy to second sword.

[BeholderMage]

As it currently stands:
Belkar: 19

Roy: 2

Haley: 2

V: 4

Durkon: 11

Elan: 3

[AmberVael]

I'd go with Durkon.

It isn't that I hate him, its just (like a lot of others) I consider him very unnecessary and undeveloped.
I understand why people dislike Belkar (though I personally have no issue with him, I just understand the idea of why he'd get on someone's nerves), but he's a more controversial character. He may be hated, but at least he's got a reason for someone to hate him.
Durkon doesn't have much of anything, really.

[Acero]

elan.

i like stupid humor, but he is plain annoying

[Berserk Monk]

By that metric, Mr. Scruffy is every bit as awesome, or Elan's shoes.

Considering they are literally incapable of doing any of the above mentioned acts.

[Phoenix Xul]

Roy. He's just too dry. He's occasionally humorous, but tends to wrap the plot around himself. In fact, he seems to think of himself as a Mary Sue in a very un-suefriendly universe. While he certainly has his faults, he always drags everyone else in on his plot, and gets angry when they are distracted or go their own way.

Also, he's WAY too hard on Elan. To the point of being a ****.

[Zevox]

What, Durkon's the most easy to get along with character:
In case you missed it, we readers don't have to get along with the characters in the strip. (And actually, for me, the easiest to get along with character would likely be Roy or V, not Durkon.)

Zevox

[Optimystik]

Considering they are literally incapable of doing any of the above mentioned acts.

Whether they are incapable or unwilling is neither relevant to the point nor specified in your post.

[Berserk Monk]

Whether they are incapable or unwilling is neither relevant to the point nor specified in your post.

I meant that all the stuff I listed Durkon doesn't do his party members do.

[Moff Chumley]

I'm going to answer this question in two ways. Because I'm a pretentious jerk. :smallsmile:

1) Communal Popularity:
By which I mean, who would lose a forum-wide popularity contest. If the votes were for least favorite, Belkar, as has been demonstrated, would most definitely lose. He has legions of fans, but without a doubt a dedicated group of haters. However, if everyone voted for their favorite and the person with the least votes loses, Durkon would be the least popular. Each character has a fairly dedicated fanbase, with the exception of Durkon. He certainly has fans, but not nearly as many as Haley, V, or Elan.

Personally, I think that's part of the Giant's genius: he manages to appeal to quite a few audiences, without alienating the others. Haley appeals to those who appreciate a good backstory, V appeals to those who *cough* as a rule play wizards, Elan appeals to... et cetera. While some of them might annoy us, it never manages to outway the virtues we see in the other characters.

2) My opinion:
Roy, by a slim margin. Dunno why, he's just the least interesting to me. *shrug*

[Zaydos]

Durkon is my least favorite, slightly beating out Roy.

[doliest]

or Elan's shoes.

What are you talking about!? Those shoes annoy me to no end, with their squeaking and loud music.

[Souhiro]

To me, the less popular is Durkon. He hasn't any character development, and only only a running joke for personality.

Next to him is Elan. As it was said, he just "is there" and good things happens to him, effortlessly. If the comic continues this way, he have been guarranteed to get a happy ending, but he don't deserve it. Belkar is WAY better character that him. He's a bastard, playing to be a nice guy, and we know it! Instead all the other "Bastard playing good" he isn't the archetipical traitor, he isn't the archetipical halfling, and, for Pete's sake, a PC who haves the Favored Enemy: Humanoid!

[Cleverdan22]

To me, I dunno. I like most of them, but probably Belkar.

To the Order, obviously Belkar, for many many reasons.

[Draz74]

I love all the characters, but if I have to focus on their faults ...

Haley is the least funny.
Durkon is the least exciting. (I disagree that he's got "no development" or "no real personality", though.)
Belkar would cause the least damage to the party dynamic by being removed.
Belkar is also the one I would be least likely to be friends with if the characters were real (natch).
Elan actually annoys me the most often. Although he's a lot better than he used to be.

So I guess that means I'm voting for Belkar. Again, though, I disagree with claims that he has no real character development or always uses the same jokes.

I really don't understand why people think Roy isn't funny ... I do understand when he drives them nuts by making dumb mistakes when he's supposed to be the leader, but I see most of these mistakes as plot-mandated, just to keep the comic a comedy rather than a drama, rather than actual flaws in the character.

[Scarlet Knight]

Belkar would cause the least damage to the party dynamic by being removed.


Your statement made me realize, even though I may have favorites, to remove any character would worsen the strip.

There is a wonderful balance, almost like a jazz band, with leads, support, excitement, & calm.

No one is always in the front, but everyone gets their turn to shine.

[Dienekes]

Roy. He's just too dry. He's occasionally humorous, but tends to wrap the plot around himself. In fact, he seems to think of himself as a Mary Sue in a very un-suefriendly universe. While he certainly has his faults, he always drags everyone else in on his plot, and gets angry when they are distracted or go their own way.

Also, he's WAY too hard on Elan. To the point of being a ****.

To be fair, to a party leader Elan is probably the most annoying (if not the most disliked) Hell, there's no real reason for Elan to even be on the team of adventurers. If I was Roy I'd have just parted ways with him after the dungeon blow up incident. Even Belkar contributed more to the group than him.

[HealthKit]

Belkar.
His "humor" got old real fast and despite his fake-character-growth epiphany (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0606.html), nothing has really changed.

Even a lack of character growth (Durkon) is better than a faking it, IMO.

[Doug Lampert]

And that assertion doesn't say anything that can't already be inferred. No, I think that even people who like Durkon wouldn't notice his absence, because he's such a non-entity. You're welcome to disagree, but one person does not a significant minority make, and the situation is completely hypothetical anyway.

Except that I specifically remember people commenting on Durkon's not being shown in the IIRC 684 commentary thread. And that easily disproves your contention that no one would notice his absence for five strips given that at that point he'd been absent for ONE strip.

[Menas]

No, I think that even people who like Durkon wouldn't notice his absence, because he's such a non-entity.

Speaking as one of the people who like Durkon, I'm pretty sure I'd notice his absense since he's one of my favorite characters.

[Kish]

You're welcome to disagree, but one person does not a significant minority make,
...Exactly how many people are you under the impression you are?

[Menas]

...Exactly how many people are you under the impression you are?

Kish - you almost made me spit out my coffee. Thanks for the laugh!

[Omergideon]

My least favourite member of the Order is probably Belkar, based on how mush I like them as a person. Basically in real life a person Like Belkar is somebody I would never associate with. Not ever. He is simply put too evil, meanspirited and stupid to like. However I also dislike a couple of other order members for different reasons. For instance I find Elan to be likeable enough as a person but he can be overbearing at times. Enough to make irritation with him understandable. And Haley just rubs me the wrong way a lot of the time. Something about her just irritates me and I cannot quite explain why.

But there is another perspective for me to consider, and that is how interesting I find their characters. Now at the start of the strip Roy and Haley were really the only ones with any real depth to them. V, Belkar, and Elan were single note joke characters without much development. For maybe 40 or so strips it seemed only Roy or Haley had any thoughts outside of their stated role in the story and the humour. Roy as the straight man of course as we saw him responding to the others, but Haley had more varied dynamics with the other party members. However even then they were all somewhat shallow. By the end of Dorukans dungeon though this was changing.

Introducing Nale gave Elan an instant boost as well as us seeing his genre savvy nature begin to shine. Durkon had the most personal subplot. We very quickly discovered a smidge of Haley's backstory and Roy's quest was a big deal for him. Sadly V and Belkar did not change at all and remained static, meaning their jokes began to get played out a bit. Their interpersonal rivalry helped with new jokes but as characters they were static.

During the first Miko arc (and the subplots before it) we got to see V and Elan grow as people and reconcile their differences. Haley entered her romantic subplot adding another strand to her character. Roy began his maturation into a proper all round hero. Durkon however really did not change much, whilst Belkar again stayed completely static as a character. His war with Miko gave him something to do but his character did not change.

In the Azure city arc (War and XP's) Elan really began to grow. Haley's silence subplot got us to see into her head plus the romance with Elan shook things up a fair bit too. V and Belkar stayed pretty much as they were along with Durkon. And Roy continued to grow into a real hero, get past his personal hang ups and so on. So half the order stayed interesting, the other half just did stuff. Belkar again had stuff happen around him (and the Mark of justice was a step with how it restrained him) but again in that period he had 1 joke. Much like V. And Durkon did not grow at all.

Finally in the order divided arc we had major changes. Haley's backstory was thrown into sharp relief as we saw her childhood home, and her job as a party leader was a time where she changed a fair bit. Elan grew up. That is the only way to describe it, he grew up. Roy's time in heaven really has changed him in how he handles himself and his philosphical side. He has become more cunning as he really gets what is at stake. And V........Finally the character flourished. We saw deep insights into his obsession through the whole arc. We really saw his family life and what they mean. His magical arrogance was highlighted and beaten out of him. And the time in Xykon's tower..........strip 657. That is all. Finally Belkar actually grew as a character when he had the Shojo vision. His core personality finally was affected by the events around him and he became interesting as we explore his (totally not fooling anyone) fake growth which is a sign of real growth. Plus Mr Scruffy altered the dynamic enough that Belkar has been changed by it. Durkon had the least changes but even he had some right by the end, and the newest comics have him interacting with Belkar with potentially interesting ways.

SO....the point of all that is that if I go by who is more interesting the for ages V, Belkar and Durkon were tied as they barely changed over the course of the first 3 arcs. Durkon's highly personal sub plot in the dungeon (and his role as the responsible one) meant that he had something of a pass. And V was used in a variety of jokes. Belkar however kept using the same joke over and over. The various other actions he got pulled into meant he was not boring per se, just one note. Over the course of the divided arc it was played out until his epiphany. So overal Durkon has had the least character growth and development and his role as the stable one means that as a character he is less ineteresting overall.

I think though I still vote for Belkar. His changes are not enough for me to say I like him. And in many way's the staticness of Durkon for me proves to be the strength of his intial character. As a person he is the most well adjusted and stable of the order and so changes the least. Plus he has more small moments than big arcs that help us see him grow. In short Durkon may be static but as the moral compass of the order it is less of a problem. It may be the fact I like him means I forgive more, but so be it.

[BeholderMage]

ok, I finally agree with Durkon on something. I too would want to get blitzed on tequila to forget a living Dune reference.

[Qubanz]

Well... probably Haley, but that's not to say I dislike her.

I do think she's not leader material as that arc where she failed to keep Celia under control showed, but then again that wasn't really her task, and in the end it all ended well enough. Plus Haley had a nice little moment there finishing Crystal off.

Still I would say she interests me least of the six, and what didn't help either was that long long time she spoke in gibberish.


I'd say after that I like Belkar least because he's not that original an idea, pint-sized psychopath is not really that new or fresh. Although I think he's been developing interestingly in recent times, and he does actually get some moments I found genuinely funny.


Durkon... I would agree he's pretty bland, but he managed to come over sufficiently sympathetic for me to like him better then he's interesting. Actually I think I like him and Belkar about equally for different reasons.


Elan, I can see how some might find him annoying, but I don't personally. And a lot does happen around him, plus I do think he smartened up a LITTLE over time. However Roy and V are the most interesting to me. Actually I might like him about slightly better then Durkon and Belkar, but not necessarily by a big leap. Of course I didn't say I disliked Haley, just that I liked her least.


As for the character I dislike most in the entire comic... Celia, hands down. I HATE her, and if we ever see again, then far as I'm concerned let it be with x's in her eyes.

[Qubanz]

ok, I finally agree with Durkon on something. I too would want to get blitzed on tequila to forget a living Dune reference.

Although the liquor with the worm is actually Mescal.

But yeah, the Dune reference came out of nowhere... I was like 'What the hell, a Dune reference?'

So does Belkar get magic navigation powers now, or whatever that stuff did again?

[cheesecake]

I personally dislike Roy. I know he is the main character, but he really brings me any enjoyment out of the comic. I laugh at a Durkon more than Roy.

[Kaytara]

I personally dislike Roy. I know he is the main character, but he really brings me any enjoyment out of the comic. I laugh at a Durkon more than Roy.

I wouldn't really call Roy the main character anymore. In the sense that he initially started the story, sure, but that doesn't really mean anything. Characters fulfill crucial plot roles all the time no matter how central they are. In the sense that he's the party leader... so what? "Party leader" is a character role like any other. In the sense that his trials and tribulations are the most important and everyone else is just a side character, blatantly not. This story is now as much about Durkon, Haley, Elan, V and Belkar as it is about Roy.

[hamishspence]

But yeah, the Dune reference came out of nowhere... I was like 'What the hell, a Dune reference?

Given that Dune (and Star Wars Tatooine) were some of the things that it was predicted by various people would be referenced, it doesn't entirely surprise me.

I'm hoping this isn't the point Belkar will be killed off at though- seems like it would be a bit lacking in meaning.

[Holyhatred]

elan.

i like stupid humor, but he is plain annoying

Right on the nose elan has been annoying me since he got his dashing swordsmen powers. I liked him better when he was underpowered and getting into trouble. My vote on worst character is for elan.


My least favorite is Roy. I don't hate him, but I do find him boring and, frankly, not much of a leader. For all his schooling and strategizing, he makes an awful lot of mistakes.

Yeah but he is cool and cool helps a comic. To me roy is a stick figure Samuel l Jackson.


But yeah, the Dune reference came out of nowhere... I was like 'What the hell, a Dune reference?'

Dune is awesome if it was before my time or not. The reference made my day!

[ZeLinator]

Poking in long enough to say: Tough choice, but I'll go with Haley, just because she doesn't quite have enough "awesome" from what I can see. Though I'd trade my +1 Haley vote for a -1 Belkar vote.

[Pyron]

Vaarsuvius is my least favorite character because, in my opinion, her character development arc with Kyrie and her children felt forced. It left me with the impression that the children were introduced (and threatened by the ABD) just to give V a reason to sell her soul.

[HealthKit]

Though I'd trade my +1 Haley vote for a -1 Belkar vote.

Hmm... sounds like someone should turn this into a "Heal/Hurt" thread in the Silly Message Board Games.

[Cracklord]

Given that Dune (and Star Wars Tatooine) were some of the things that it was predicted by various people would be referenced, it doesn't entirely surprise me.

I'm hoping this isn't the point Belkar will be killed off at though- seems like it would be a bit lacking in meaning.

Now I hope the worm kills him, even if it's not drawn out (though maybe he'll be slowly digested as he's unable to do sufficient damage with small knives), and secreted as spice.

[Raging Gene Ray]

Now I hope the worm kills him, even if it's not drawn out (though maybe he'll be slowly digested as he's unable to do sufficient damage with small knives), and secreted as spice.

If the worm eats Belkar, secretes him as spice, and someone eats the spice...do they absorb his powers or does he possess them?

[Thorcrest]

I place my vote for Belkar, I like him, but having played actual DnD with a player that played a character like that was a huge pain in the ass. So Belkar because the ass pain he causes. Even though its funny... sometimes.