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donager
2009-10-31, 02:54 PM
Hello!

I like to try new things, so I am starting a game with a Level 2 Monk and Level 4 sword sage. I am most familiar with Second Edition, so I have a tough learning curve with 3.5. I like the role play aspect of the game, and I envision my Sword Sage as more of a type that moves quick and dances around. Toward that end, I am taking the Discipline of Desert Wind.

What I would appreciate are some suggestions for stances/maneuvers etc to help me better understand how I can accomplish my vision. I am pasting my skill set and my feat list. I am willing to change, if I have a good understanding of why I should. I appreciate your feedback.

Skills:

Climb
Balance
Concentration
Escape Artist
Gather Info
Intimidate
Jump
Knowledge
Religion
Geography
Martial
Move Silent
Swim
Tumble
Use Rope


Feats:

Improved Grapple
Improved Unarmed Strike
Improved Trip
Combat Expertise
Combat Reflexes
Power Attack
Weapon Focus - Spear
Improved Bullrush

sofawall
2009-10-31, 03:02 PM
Feats:

Improved Grapple-
Improved Unarmed Strike
Improved Trip
Combat Expertise
Combat Reflexes
Power Attack
Weapon Focus - Spear
Improved Bullrush

So you intend to grapple and punch, but then you took weapon focus: spear, which, being a reach weapon, is not really any good in a grapple. You proceed to take improved trip, again not usable with your spear, and improved bullrush, for whatever reason.

D&D does not reward people who go every-which-way. It is almost always better to specialize at doing one or two things.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-10-31, 03:07 PM
Drop improved Bull Rush, and Weapon Focus. Grab Knock Down (it's on the SRD), which goes well with Improved Trip.

Boci
2009-10-31, 03:09 PM
Hello!

I like to try new things, so I am starting a game with a Level 2 Monk and Level 4 sword sage. I am most familiar with Second Edition, so I have a tough learning curve with 3.5. I like the role play aspect of the game, and I envision my Sword Sage as more of a type that moves quick and dances around. Toward that end, I am taking the Discipline of Desert Wind.

What I would appreciate are some suggestions for stances/maneuvers etc to help me better understand how I can accomplish my vision. I am pasting my skill set and my feat list. I am willing to change, if I have a good understanding of why I should. I appreciate your feedback.

Skills:

Climb
Balance
Concentration
Escape Artist
Gather Info
Intimidate
Jump
Knowledge
Religion
Geography
Martial
Move Silent
Swim
Tumble
Use Rope


Feats:

Improved Grapple
Improved Unarmed Strike
Improved Trip
Combat Expertise
Combat Reflexes
Power Attack
Weapon Focus - Spear
Improved Bullrush

You can start taking desert wind manouvers from your first level as swordsage. Tumble is a useful skill, but for feats, take desert winds dodge then you could also mobility and evasive target at level nine, a feat that is especially efective with desert tempest.

Emmerask
2009-10-31, 03:43 PM
I would use the shadow hand stances

Island of blades (you flank opponents if you and an ally are adjacent to them) +2 to attack and easy sneak attacks for the rogue in your party

and assassinīs stance which gives you +2d6 sneak attack

As for the moves quick and dances arround part the sparring dummy of the master (arms and equipment guide p.137) lets you make 10' steps instead of 5' which is really awesome and fits your theme ;)

as for the spear and the feat selection they donīt really fit ie you canīt use most of them with your weapon

Cieyrin
2009-10-31, 04:01 PM
Why multiclass between Monk and Swordsage? Unarmed strikes aren't a Desert Wind weapon and you'd probably be better off going straight Swordsage, as multiclassing just slows down getting higher level maneuvers.

On feat choices, why pick up WF(Spear), as you get that for being a 1st level Swordsage? Improved Unarmed Strike, Improved Grapple and Combat Reflexes are all via Monk, which don't really help your core concept, leaving you with Combat Expertise, Power Attack, Improved Trip and Improved Bullrush, leading me to believe your Human. Spears aren't good weapons for tripping, for one thing, and neither is really Improved Bullrush. Just qualifying for all of these probably spreads your stats pretty thin, so I'd specialize a bit more to Dex, Con and Wis.

For feat choices that sound like they match up to you, I'd probably take Weapon Finesse, Shadow Blade, Adaptive Style and Extra Readied Maneuver. For quick and speedy, I'd probably focus on Desert Wind, Diamond Mind and Shadow Hand. For maneuvers and stances, Burning Blade, Burning Brand, Death Mark, Distracting Ember, Emerald Razor, Mind Over Body, Moment of Perfect Mind, Sapphire Nightmare Blade, Shadow Jaunt, Wind Stride and Zephyr Dance for maneuvers and Child of Shadow, Island of Blades and Pearl of Black Doubt for stances. I'd suggest Shadow Hand for your first Discipline Focus, to synchronize with Shadow Blade, as all your hitting powers are based off of Shadow Hand weapons.

Them's my 2 coppers. Take as you will.

AslanCross
2009-10-31, 04:47 PM
As has been mentioned, you don't need Weapon Focus. Swordsage's first level gives you Discipline Focus, whose level 1 effect is giving you Weapon Focus (all weapons in the chosen discipline). Choose Desert Wind.

I think the main issue here is that while you're trying to make a fast skirmisher type character, the feats you've chosen don't really contribute to this. Improved Bull Rush can go.

The good thing about the Swordsage is that you have so many maneuvers known and readied that you don't need to "specialize."

There are many ways you can go here:
-Take the Desert Wind maneuvers that give you movement+attacks. These include Searing Charge, Salamander Charge, etc. Tiger Claw has some really good maneuvers too; take the ones that involve jumping. I strongly advise you to get a few Shadow Hand maneuvers as well--the teleportation and invisibility ones are good.
-You can go straight swordsage as well, and PrC into Dervish later. You will need to do this with the scimitar or falchion, though, and will be forced to take Dodge and Mobility to qualify. Thankfully, ToB has Desert Wind Dodge, which counts as the Dodge feat for qualifying for other things. Swordsage's Lv 1 Discipline Focus gives you Weapon Focus in all Desert Wind weapons, so it's a relatively easy build. In this case, you can still focus on the same maneuvers above.

Haven
2009-10-31, 04:53 PM
Multiclassing Monk 2/Swordsage 4 isn't that bad a choice: it beefs up his saves a bit, gets him Evasion a lot earlier, and gives him Combat Reflexes for free. And he only loses one IL.

Though, OP, if you're doing that to get Wis to AC twice I'm pretty sure it doesn't stack.

sofawall
2009-10-31, 05:03 PM
Multiclassing Monk 2/Swordsage 4 isn't that bad a choice: it beefs up his saves a bit, gets him Evasion a lot earlier, and gives him Combat Reflexes for free. And he only loses one IL.

Though, OP, if you're doing that to get Wis to AC twice I'm pretty sure it doesn't stack.

One needs light armour, one needs unarmoured. They cannot stack, as you cannot fulfill both requirements.

Draz74
2009-10-31, 05:31 PM
One needs light armour, one needs unarmoured. They cannot stack, as you cannot fulfill both requirements.

Yes, but houseruling that Swordsages still get Wis to AC in no armor is so common, it's hardly worth actually typing. (Much like Monks being proficient with unarmed strikes.)

donager
2009-11-01, 10:31 AM
Thank you for all the input. Your comments and recommendation have given me a lot to consider and a better idea of what to focus on. I can clearly see my lack of focus on the character and I plan to fix it.

I'm going to meet with my DM this afternoon to plan out some of my ideas. I'll probably wander back over for advice once I have better fleshed out my concept.

Additional comments, recommendation and the like are welcome.