Strip 28

[Berserk Monk]

What was your impression of Haley after reading strip 28 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0028.html) and hearing her talk about seeing "Elan's 18 charisma 'under the hood.'" Personally, I thought she was kind of sleazy and loose. Granted, I don't think it had been revealed she had a thing for Elan at that point.

[Zevox]

I didn't really think anything of it myself. Seemed like the same reaction most guys would have to a female with high charisma (aka a female they find attractive, to use non-D&D terms) running around nude, so it wasn't really surprising. Though Roy and Belkar's reactions were funny.

Zevox

[Nerocite]

{Scrubbed}

[Meg]

{Scrubbed}

Thus begins the rapid spiral from topic.

[Closak]

They are in Fanfic at least.

Especially female dragons.
Ever heard the term "Horny dragons" before?
There's a good reason for that...


*Get's struck in the head by the LOCK-HAMMER OF DOOM!*

[Porthos]

I thought she was kind of sleazy and loose.

Yes, because it's completely awful if a woman expresses an interest in sex, casual or otherwise, right? :smallconfused::smallannoyed:


I didn't really think anything of it myself. Seemed like the same reaction most guys would have to a female with high charisma (aka a female they find attractive, to use non-D&D terms) running around nude

Well, not nude, but a similar reaction did occur just a few strips later (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0035.html). :smalltongue:

[Prak]

my reaction was that she was a healthy, non-repressed young woman with a perfectly normal attitude towards sex and attractive people.

[Zevox]

Well, not nude, but a similar reaction did occur just a few strips later (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0035.html). :smalltongue:
Ah, yes, I had forgotten about that. Excellent point to bring up :smallsmile: .

Zevox

[Trebuchet]

I thought it was funny. It seemed to me that Haley was tweaking Roy for her own amusement, in addition to enjoying a bit of non-deadly fun (a rarity in a dungeon). Most of my straight or bisexual female characters would have done the same, as would my gay or bisexual male characters, except a few really repressed ones.

Haley tweaking Roy continued in Strip 29 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0029.html).

[derfenrirwolv]

Its one of the earliest indications that she liked elan.

Its also a joke about guys being uptight around girls, even if the girls are ok with it.

[Mordokai]

I didn't really think anything of it myself. Seemed like the same reaction most guys would have to a female with high charisma (aka a female they find attractive, to use non-D&D terms) running around nude, so it wasn't really surprising. Though Roy and Belkar's reactions were funny.

Zevox

That's... pretty much what I made out of it at the time. Of course, at the time there was no indication whatsoever that Haley had a thing for Elan, so I really didn't attribute anything more than a harmless joke to it.

[Psychonaut]

What was your impression of Haley after reading strip 28 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0028.html) and hearing her talk about seeing "Elan's 18 charisma 'under the hood.'" Personally, I thought she was kind of sleazy and loose.

Seriously? Because, what, she made a comment with sexual implications (and only just barely - she only expressed an interest in seeing some eye-candy)? That's sleazy to you? Such comments are pretty much par for the course among most women from non-repressive societies with even an iota of self-assertion, especially in Haley's age group. I hear much "worse" things from my girlfriends pretty much daily, and only one or two could be characterized as being at all sleazy or loose. Even in their cases, it's more of a matter of recognizing that they are sexual beings - that just as gaming or music brings great pleasure to some people, sex brings great pleasure to them - and knowing what they want and being willing to take the steps necessary to obtain it; they aren't any less worty of respect for that, if you ask me, and words like "sleazy" and "loose" have that connotation.

Tell me, if a woman flirts with you, do you see that as being sleazy and loose? What if she enjoys looking at porn, or fantasizes about men she finds attractive?

[NerfTW]

I'm curious what Monk's reaction was to the guys saying the same thing, and meaning it in an overtly sexual manner a few strips later.


And she had expressed an interest in him at this point. THAT WAS THE EXPRESSION OF INTEREST.

Haley expressed interest in seeing a guy she liked naked. That's not sleazy, that's... um, normal human reaction to being attracted to someone.

[Cracklord]

What was your impression of Haley after reading strip 28 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0028.html) and hearing her talk about seeing "Elan's 18 charisma 'under the hood.'" Personally, I thought she was kind of sleazy and loose. Granted, I don't think it had been revealed she had a thing for Elan at that point.

What?
Bit of misogyny there.

What is wrong with women taking initiative? She thinks Elan is attractive. So she expresses interest in seeing him running around naked. That is what we call 'normal human behavior.' Males do that sort of thing as well all the time. I mean, Haley's a confident, self-assured women. What would you expect her to do?

Honestly, I get the impression you need to spend more time around the fairer sex.

[Argeus]

I find it funny. No more, no less.

BTW, keep in mind that Rich doesn't jump the slippery slope of the Cerberus Effect until far, far later. At that time, Haley's reaction is probably just that of any active, non-uptight woman.

[Foryn Gilnith]

I didn't take it very seriously. If I thought this would even vaguely lead to sexual relations (or if I thought Haley had any serious intent to move on Elan), that would probably be a bit whorish, ya. But in light of the previous joking innuendo exchange, and Elan being Elan (even at that point in the story), it seemed innocent.

[Porthos]

At that time, Haley's reaction is probably just that of any active, non-uptight woman.

Perhaps. But per commentary in Dungeon Crawlin' Fools the scenes where we seen Nale and Sabine holding hands and being an Obvious Couple in strip #46 was supposed to be another clue to the Evil Opposite theme. In this case Sabine is in a relationship with the person she wants to be, while Haley isn't.

Of course the fact that Haley wasn't fully confronting her feelings toward Elan probably wasn't helping matters. :smalltongue:

[Manicotti]

What was your impression of Haley after reading strip 28 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0028.html) and hearing her talk about seeing "Elan's 18 charisma 'under the hood.'" Personally, I thought she was kind of sleazy and loose. Granted, I don't think it had been revealed she had a thing for Elan at that point.

What would you say if the situation had been reversed, gender-wise?

(If you say anything other than "The guy is ALSO sleazy and a pervert," you're a sexist and a hypocrite).

[Foryn Gilnith]

you're a sexist and a hypocrite).

A hypocrite? How does a double standard, if admitted honestly, amount to hypocrisy?

Why so hostile?

[JoseB]

A hypocrite? How does a double standard, if admitted honestly, amount to hypocrisy?

Ummm... Could it be, by any chance, because a double standard, by itself, is hypocritical...?

[Nimrod's Son]

I didn't take it very seriously. If I thought this would even vaguely lead to sexual relations (or if I thought Haley had any serious intent to move on Elan), that would probably be a bit whorish, ya. But in light of the previous joking innuendo exchange, and Elan being Elan (even at that point in the story), it seemed innocent.
And yet eventually things did lead to sexual relations. Does that mean that she was ALWAYS "a bit whorish", and you just didn't notice at the time?

[Manicotti]

A hypocrite? How does a double standard, if admitted honestly, amount to hypocrisy?

Why so hostile?

Double standards are inherently hypocritical by misaligning the same playing field for otherwise equal players. Making a judgment appealing to social moral norms, like the OP's, implies that he's doing so from a conventionally "fair" standard, unbiased towards either side. I want to know whether he would judge it the same if the genders of the speakers were reversed, and the only way he can is if he's willing to call out a male with the same speech on equal "sleaziness." Hence, if he can't, he's being a hypocrite by not being as unbiased as the moral code on which he's basing this judgment. Just because you're honest about it doesn't make it any less hypocritical.

And I no less regret being hostile to sexism than I would regret hostility towards racism, ageism, or any other social cancer. Why not so hostile?

[Hurkyl]

There are lots of word for bad behavior. "Hypocrite" is only applicable when the subject is lying about his beliefs.

[NerfTW]

edit- Oh hey, I'm so wrong it hurts. :smallsigh:

They're right, the dictionary definition is:


1. a person who pretends to have virtues, moral or religious beliefs, principles, etc., that he or she does not actually possess, esp. a person whose actions belie stated beliefs.
2. a person who feigns some desirable or publicly approved attitude, esp. one whose private life, opinions, or statements belie his or her public statements.

So no, admitting the beliefs means you just have double standards and are not a hypocrite.


And I retain my original closing, if someone says "The dictionary is wrong" again, I'm smashing my laptop over my head.

[Foryn Gilnith]

And yet eventually things did lead to sexual relations. Does that mean that she was ALWAYS "a bit whorish", and you just didn't notice at the time?

Things led to sexual relations. Many things, including adventuring alongside Elan, being charmed by his innocence, reciprocal affection, and indeed his endowment. That's entirely reasonable.

If the only one thing that led to sexual relations was Elan's 18 Charisma "under the hood", then yes, I would consider sex purely for that motivation a bit whorish. When intercourse did occur, later, it was not founded on Elan randomly being naked and well-endowed.

[NerfTW]

Things led to sexual relations. Many things, including adventuring alongside Elan, being charmed by his innocence, reciprocal affection, and indeed his endowment. That's entirely reasonable.

If the only one thing that led to sexual relations was Elan's 18 Charisma "under the hood", then yes, I would consider sex purely for that motivation a bit whorish. When intercourse did occur, later, it was not founded on Elan randomly being naked and well-endowed.

No, "whorish" would require the exchange of money. Casual sex between two friends is just casual sex between two friends. And, I might add, something Rich has stated on this forum is completely normal and acceptable, given that we're dealing with a magical world where a heal spell will cure any STDs, and magical barriers can prevent pregnency.

[Mystic Muse]

And I retain my original closing, if someone says "The dictionary is wrong" again, I'm smashing my laptop over my head.

the dictionary is wrong.

hey, mind getting a video of you smashing your laptop over your head? I have the distinct impression it'll be funny. although I could be wrong about that.

[Fragenstein]

No, "whorish" would require the exchange of money. Casual sex between two friends is just casual sex between two friends. And, I might add, something Rich has stated on this forum is completely normal and acceptable, given that we're dealing with a magical world where a heal spell will cure any STDs, and magical barriers can prevent pregnency.

What about magical STDs?

Oh, and I believe the non-monetary form of 'whorish' is 'slutty'.

[Aris Katsaris]

What about magical STDs?

Oh, and I believe the non-monetary form of 'whorish' is 'slutty'.

Unless it's a guy, in which case it's just "studly".

And yeah, the people who exhibit this double-standard are indeed being sexist.

[theinsulabot]

Unless it's a guy, in which case it's just "studly".

And yeah, the people who exhibit this double-standard are indeed being sexist.

actually referring to a guy as a slut has become considerably more common in the last few years, with the only tribute to the double standard being the occasional prefix, i.e. man-slut.

still, generally speaking held in somewhat higher esteem then slutty woman though

[NerfTW]

I think this thread itself proves that "man sluts" are held in way higher opinion than women who are open about their sexuality.


I'm also wondering where Berserk_Monk is with the answer to the question "Do you have the same opinion about the men a few strips later when they're leering at Haley in a far more overtly sexual manner?".

[Fragenstein]

{Scrubbed}

[Lvl45DM!]

I for one, have been called a man-slut with the intention to make me feel bad about my actions by both males and females. It failed miserably since i view casual sex about the same as i view soccer, could be very dangerous but easily made safe and while someone might be a sore loser if you have the right attitude everybody wins!
Point is women with healthy sexual appetites i admire, simply cos its such a hard thing to have without being lambasted castigated and ostracized, and they are usually raised to be more prudish than men, so they have to overcome it as well.
I thought Haley being a little sleazy, in that she was making Elan's innocent action into something sexual, which Elan didnt intend it to be, but hes a big boy(no euphemism intended) it be no harm no foul

[ericgrau]

Yes, because it's completely awful if a woman expresses an interest in sex, casual or otherwise, right? :smallconfused::smallannoyed:

Exactly. Women are just as interested as men are, if not more so. But stereotypes and what's considered proper behavior cover it up. This is also why girls can openly say "That cute guy has a hot ass" when he is quite plainly in earshot.

IMO there's a dichotomy on the matter for both sexes. There are situations where things are inappropriate in the smallest amount and situations where you can and should be downright outlandish about it. As for Haley being a whore for wanting to check out Elan, that's a load of bull. Immediately sleep with would be another story, but give me a break. It's a horrible thing for society to restrict people like that; it only makes it difficult for anything to ever happen between anyone. That's a far worse crime. Yeah, ideally there should also be attraction deeper than skin level (and as a higher priority), but there's nothing wrong with this.

[Moff Chumley]

She's a thief. She steals things. I think the impression of sleaze might have slightly less to do with Elan than with her behavior in the rest of the strip... :smallwink:

Also, Lvl45, you have so much promise. If only we could work on the grammar... :smalltongue: [/grammar nazi]

[Lvl45DM!]

Huh i thought my grammar was fine, just the punctuation was my issue
or more accurately laziness

Oh and spelling.
but the way i see it language is so shifting and arbitrary why put such rigid rules on it?

[Moff Chumley]

Because it's by no means shifting too fast to keep up with? And punctuation is grammar. And your spelling is okay. But that's outside my jurisdiction. :smallwink:

Okay... UN-DERAIL!

[mikeejimbo]

I didn't think it was sleazy or perverted, or even slutty. I think she's perfectly within her rights to check him out, since Elan obviously doesn't mind being seen naked.*

I just hope she wasn't disappointed, because even if his weapon of choice is thin, he uses it so expertly.

* Or more accurately, didn't think anyone would see him. I don't think he's shy either way though.

[NerfTW]

I thought Haley being a little sleazy, in that she was making Elan's innocent action into something sexual, which Elan didnt intend it to be, but hes a big boy(no euphemism intended) it be no harm no foul

Elan is not "innocent" in the ways of sex. People mistake naivete for childishness, but he's stated that seducing women is part of his job, and we've seen him be the initiating party for sex twice in the strip. Just because he's a little slow with other things doesn't mean he's dense enough to not realize that women like to see men naked.

Again, if we're going to call Haley "sleazy", we have to label Elan as downright filthy, given that he's the most sexually active character in the strip, going so far as to have sex with the bandit leader because "It's his job".

Also:


but the way i see it language is so shifting and arbitrary why put such rigid rules on it?

Sdfk, Fsal gi spad.

Or spelled properly, that line is absolutely ridiculous when you consider it. It's a crutch used by the lazy so they don't have to accept that they can't spell. Language may "evolve", but not as such a rate as to be completely incomprehensible. You still have to try to spell normally, or else people simply won't have any idea what you're saying.

[KBF]

You know, I figure it was an action that did portray her as a bit sleazy and a bit loose. Even with reversed genders. It's not that she was interested at all that makes her a bit sleazy and a bit loose, it was that she was so open about it. In that sense, I have to believe that one defining action does set her up as an easygoing person with a casual attitude towards nudity. Which is actually not entirely normal, as that's not nearly everyone's opinion on the matter, but it is obviously acceptable. And seeing as it isn't entirely normal, it is a useful description to help explain her character, or just just that one action.

I understand the backlash from social oppression of female freedom of speech, but you guys are being pretty harsh on the poor guy. He didn't write an essay, he's made a single statement that didn't even sound too harsh. Maybe she is kinda sleazy, kinda loose? Why do you assume that's such an insult?

[Nimrod's Son]

You know, I figure it was an action that did portray her as a bit sleazy and a bit loose. Even with reversed genders. It's not that she was interested at all that makes her a bit sleazy and a bit loose, it was that she was so open about it. In that sense, I have to believe that one defining action does set her up as an easygoing person with a casual attitude towards nudity. Which is actually not entirely normal, as that's not nearly everyone's opinion on the matter, but it is obviously acceptable. And seeing as it isn't entirely normal, it is a useful description to help explain her character, or just just that one action.

The author himself has said that both complete gender equality and a casual attitude to sex are the norm in the OotS universe, so no, that's not a defining trait.

And it's not like she did it just because she had an uncontrollable desire to look at naked man-flesh. She did it because it was Elan. If it had been Belkar running around naked, do you think she'd have been so quick to check him out? That might have given a point to the "Haley IS loose" crowd, but as it stands, she's just showing healthy attraction to someone who ends up being the love of her life.


Maybe she is kinda sleazy, kinda loose? Why do you assume that's such an insult?
Well, here's the definition of sleazy (http://www.answers.com/sleazy). See if you can work out why people assume it was meant negatively. :smallwink:

[Porthos]

Maybe she is kinda sleazy, kinda loose? Why do you assume that's such an insult?

That's because calling someone "loose" is an insult. And one almost always directed at women (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MyGirlIsNotASlut). Because, you know, A Man Is Not A Virgin (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AManIsNotAVirgin) and all that nonsense.

Then there is the strong backlash against the whole Madonna/Whore (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madonna-whore_complex) dichotomy (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=madonna-whore%20complex). I think a lot of the commentary in this thread can be directed as anger at the whole M/W complex and how it can slip into causual conversation. Combine that with the thought that this, intentionally or not, reinforces the idiotic "good girl/bad girl" notion (which is closely related to the M/W thing I linked to above), and I think one might see why some people are getting upset in this thread.

For instance, notice how there's almost no commentary about Samantha's "loose morals" in this thread? Well that's probably because she is blantanly a "bad girl", thus it doesn't need to be commented on. But if a supposed "good girl" like Haley makes a "locker room"/"one of the boys" type comment? Oh no! We can't have that.

Is there some over-reaction in this thread? Perhaps. But maybe it's because some of us are sick and tired of seeing people being judged over things like this. There are probably quite a few people on this thread whose buttons are being pushed (including mine :smalltongue:).

And thus they react accordingly. :smallwink:

--

BTW: Yes, statments like "loose", "sleazy", and "whorish" are all value/moral judgements, at least in my opinion.

EDIT::: To see why some people consider the term "loose" to be an insult, a look at the Urban Dictionary (which is a fantastic resoucre for slangish terminology) entry of the word "loose" might just open some eyes. Ain't linking to the entry since it is very slightly NSFW. But just wanted to draw attention to it. :smallwink:

[Lvl45DM!]

Elan is not "innocent" in the ways of sex. People mistake naivete for childishness, but he's stated that seducing women is part of his job, and we've seen him be the initiating party for sex twice in the strip. Just because he's a little slow with other things doesn't mean he's dense enough to not realize that women like to see men naked.

Again, if we're going to call Haley "sleazy", we have to label Elan as downright filthy, given that he's the most sexually active character in the strip, going so far as to have sex with the bandit leader because "It's his job".

I didnt say he was overall innocent about it just that THAT action of stripping was innocent, which it clearly was! "wanna see me practice my tumble skill?"


Also:


Sdfk, Fsal gi spad.

Or spelled properly, that line is absolutely ridiculous when you consider it. It's a crutch used by the lazy so they don't have to accept that they can't spell. Language may "evolve", but not as such a rate as to be completely incomprehensible. You still have to try to spell normally, or else people simply won't have any idea what you're saying.

And thats why I still speak the same language. I'm just pointing out that you can obviously decipher my posts since you respond to them, so why must I conform to the annoying and tedious structures of grammar? If I am incomprehensible then you'll ignore my post and I won't get my point across so it's only I who suffers. So ill stick with posting without time consuming punctuation and without self editing because i am lazy

[Nimrod's Son]

And thats why I still speak the same language. I'm just pointing out that you can obviously decipher my posts since you respond to them, so why must I conform to the annoying and tedious structures of grammar?
Because it's displaying basic courtesy to your fellow posters, that's why. Deciphering badly-written posts takes much longer than normal reading, frequently requires multiple re-readings, and even after that often leaves whoever is responding unsure if they've understood your point correctly in the first place. And since you post here a LOT, it's not really asking too much that you stick a few commas and full stops in your posts here and there, is it?

The fact that you are "lazy" is no more a reasonable excuse for not posting coherently than it would be for not ever having a wash in real life. :smalltongue:

From the Forum Rules:

The occasional typo or confusion regarding spelling is understood and expected, but at least take a moment to read over a message before you post it.
You obviously know HOW to spell and punctuate properly (since your spelling is almost always fine and your last couple of responses have shown a significant improvement in grammar). So we're just saying, we'd appreciate it if you actually bothered. Y'know, like everybody else here does. :smallsmile:

[Lvl45DM!]

*rolls eyes* i write how i talk

BUT
in fairness i shall strive for more comprehensible posts

[Zeful]

{scrubbed}

NO It wouldn't.:smallannoyed:

[NerfTW]

*rolls eyes* i write how i talk

BUT
in fairness i shall strive for more comprehensible posts


Seriously, how old are you? :smallconfused:

[Lvl45DM!]

Young, and i dont like people criticizing the way i talk cos its like the second most subjective thing out there right underneath good music
I let people listen to lady gaga without complaint (that doesnt count as a complaint!) i should be able to talk how i want especially on the internet
however i have conceded the point(cos i was in the wrong) and now all you are doing is antagonising me

How old are you

[Jackson]

Nobody 'writes how they talk.' You may write in a manner that is as convenient for you as talking casually is, but that's not the same thing at all. Aural is not similar to visual, however a shame that may be. You have much less of a reason to be inarticulate when writing, however, since the internet affords you every opportunity of getting it right. All that said, if you'd like to be lazy on the internet, by all means feel free to be. I just, personally, don't understand why you wouldn't want to be as clear as possible when your only medium for communication is the written word.

More on topic: the whole debate as to whether or not she's sleazy should be answered by her response to a naked Roy in 665: she, after Belkar, is the most disturbed by the fully naked party member. That's a 'prude' reaction if I ever saw one, especially since Roy doesn't seem to have terrible CHA.

Admittedly, a lot has changed in the intervening 637 strips, but nothing that changed her general sexual appetite. She was interested in seeing Elan for the reason anybody might be, in addition to her crush on him. It's not particularly sleazy or loose unless the world is old-fashioned regarding sexual mores, which it doesn't seem to be.

So, no, I didn't see her as being sleazy or loose or whorish for being interested in seeing Elan naked. It didn't really affect how I saw her at all. I guess I didn't really assign it much weight in how I determined her character. Then again, in real life I don't find that somebody's sexual appetites (or partners) is very definite either, while it tends to be (at the very least) informative in fiction, so I may have been coming at it from a tragically neutral viewpoint. Which was wrong of me, obviously, and I apologize profusely.

[Lvl45DM!]

I write how i talk.
I have been criticised by english and history teachers for 7 years now on my style of writing, the seond greatest complaint is "it sounds too much like you're talking" The greatest is my lousy handwriting

And thats a good point about naked Roy, but i think thats more due to her relationship with Roy, since the comics inception Haley and Roy, with their "betcha 10 gold" antics have always been close, like brother and sister maybe thats why she was so repulsed, she didnt like seeing her pseudo brother like that.
However she IS a bit loose sexually...look at her response to her 'wardrope malfunction'...its Tee Hee. She obviously has no problem with being exposed to guys, and she was the one groping Elan under cover of invisibility

[Jan Mattys]

I'm 31 (just so that you won't ask).

Just leave the poor guy alone. He made a comment about a touchy subject and probably didn't think twice before posting it. But what I see is basically two pages of people jumping at his throat.

Just let him be. It's not like he's going personal on someone or anything... and this reaction is really uncalled for.

I, for one, see his point. Not so many years ago I would have felt the same as him. People grow up... and surely they don't grow up by being bashed on the head over and over. By that, they grow stubborn instead.

[misterk]

I'm 31 (just so that you won't ask).

Just leave the poor guy alone. He made a comment about a touchy subject and probably didn't think twice before posting it. But what I see is basically two pages of people jumping at his throat.

Just let him be. It's not like he's going personal on someone or anything... and this reaction is really uncalled for.

I, for one, see his point. Not so many years ago I would have felt the same as him. People grow up... and surely they don't grow up by being bashed on the head over and over. By that, they grow stubborn instead.

While normally I would agree, words such as sleazy and loose are caustic, horrid terms that enforce rather disgusting stereotypes. People have been relatively civil in their response to these overwhelmingly sexist pejoratives, so I don't see the problem.

Incidentally, I really don't think lvl45's writing is all that bad. I've certainly endured worse...

[NerfTW]

I write how i talk.
I have been criticised by english and history teachers for 7 years now on my style of writing,


Then maybe you should try listening to them, before you get into the working world, and find out you can't get a job past fry cook because you admit to being to lazy to bother with grammar.

Honestly, I hope one day you look back at your statements and realize how ridiculous you sound.

[Pyrolep]

I am highly confused on why Lvl45DM! is being attacked for his grammar, punctuation, etc. It's fine. We can read it. If you don't like it to the point where you've posted like...5? replies to it, stop reading it. It's really not that difficult of a concept. For instance, Nerf, your posts have highly begun to annoy me, therefore I probably won't be reading anymore of them with your name on them. See how easy? Anyway, back on subject. I don't find Haley sleazy at all. Plenty of normal girls would seize an opportunity like that. I definitely would! I also feel that if the roles were reversed, people would be patting Elan on the back for trying to peak at Haley. Then questioning him on what he saw.

[mikeejimbo]

I'm curious though - how many people think it was sleazy for the guys in strip 35 to be oogling Haley?

If you find that sleazy, but not Haley's behavior in strip 28, isn't that also a double standard?

Personally I didn't think much about either one of them.

[rewinn]

What is wrong with women taking initiative?

In my experience, if they roll for initiative, the target doesn't stand a chance. At least, I never have.:smallamused: In an abstract sense, the rules may need rebalancing but as long as the players involved aren't complaining why bother?


She's a thief. She steals things...

... so naturally she would steal a look at Elan's treasure. It's within her character as a rogue to try to get his gold bar into her bag of holding.

What?

You're reading something into that? :smalltongue:

[B.I.T.T.]

No I did not find Haley sleazy and/or loose for her "under the hood" comment. I'd say more but in order to do so I would have to put far more analysis on the strip then was intended by the author, in my opinion. In short.

Just repeat to yourself "It's just strip 28, I should really just relaxe."

[drengnikrafe]

Here is my opinion on the subject at hand.

I don't find Haley's comment sleazy, I find it perfectly reasonable. Yes, it's a little bit risque, but... seriously, if you find it very bad, you need to spend a day listening to student banter in a high school.

I don't find the guys' actions (asking Haley to take 20) to be sleazy, I find it perfectly natural. Repeat previous sentiments.

Honestly, I myself oogled Haley (yes, she's a stick figure, so sue me. She's still pretty cute) for quite some time. Less so now, because shorter hair is (to me) less flattering on her. And she's with Elan, and I like Elan as a character, and... Well, let's just say I have really weird moral codes. But all this is beside the point.

There's nothing wrong with any of those actions.

[Nimrod's Son]

I am highly confused on why Lvl45DM! is being attacked for his grammar, punctuation, etc. It's fine. We can read it.
Since people brought it up, his grammar has improved massively, yes. But it wasn't too long ago when all his posts seemed like one gigantic sentence, broken up only by liberal use of the enter key and the occasional question mark. No full stops, no apostrophes, no commas, no capital letters. THAT'S what people were complaining about.

And the only reason anyone kept on about it is because he kept claiming that he'd done nothing wrong, and it was everyone else's problem that they couldn't understand his posts. Thankfully, in the process of this denial, he showed that he CAN write coherently. :smallwink: So all is well.