PDA

View Full Version : Artificer - How do I go about resource management?



Boci
2009-11-01, 05:45 PM
So yeah, same time as before, this if my first time playing an artificer and I just wanted to check I'm not doing anything stupid. (By the way, there are six of us in the party.)

1st level: No down time so I after requesting and being denied a delay before we started the quest from the other party members I joined them using my knowledge checks to learn information, both useless and important. In combat I alternated between missing with my crossbow and healing the warforge ranger. Levelled up in the sewers, loosing my craft reserve. (I'm not bitter about it at all.)

2nd level: 3 days downtime. Spent my entire craft reserve. Made 5 potions of cure minor wound (to auto-stabilize). For first level scrolls I made a Summon Monster 1, Comprehend languages, Detect secret doors, Charm person, Sleep, Cause fear, Ray of enfeeblement, Enlarge person, Magic weapon and Silent image. For second level scrolls I made Glitterdust, Alter self, Read thoughts and Silence.

I split the first level scrolls between the wizard and the cleric (magic domain) so they could cast them without a chance of failure but kept the 2nd level ones.
So in the first combat when I was actually equipped went like this:

1st round: rolled bad on initiative, everyone else went before me. Wizard was in trouble so I (rolled high enough) used the scroll glitter dust and managed to blind all three of the thugs threatening him.

2nd round: Missed with my crossbow.

3rd round: Narrowly missed the last eyewitness with my crossbow. (But it doesn’t matter. His right arm is frozen and he saw his friend brutally mauled apart by a celestial badger, so his memory of our faces should be a tad fuzzy)
On a side note the wizard used the charm and summon monster 1 scrolls but all the other ones are unused.

So basically, what tactics can you recommend to me (I may ask for some of the 1st level scrolls back)? If we have enough downtime I was thinking of making some acid flasks since I should be able to make the touch attack more often. But dam it takes so long. I can make 1000gp worth of magical items per day, but only about 2.5gp worth of mundane.
Also, any particular things I should keep in mind for future levels? I will defiantly be making a couple of scrolls of ray of exhaustion at next level, apart from that I haven’t thought about it too much.

PinkysBrain
2009-11-01, 06:43 PM
General advice ... whenever you are expecting trouble hold the charge on personal weapon augmentation.

What is your UMD at the moment, what books are allowed?

Boci
2009-11-01, 06:47 PM
General advice ... whenever you are expecting trouble hold the charge on personal weapon augmentation.

Isn't that one of those 1 minute casting time infusions? How long can I hold the charge for?



What is your UMD at the moment,

+12. (So I think its +16 for scrolls. Do not know exactly, my DM has my character sheet in between games)


what books are allowed?

Right now just core and the ECS, but the DM has promised to exspand as soon as those new to D&D have grasped the basics.

AslanCross
2009-11-01, 06:49 PM
If your DM allows Unearthed Arcana, ask him if you can have the Craft Point variant, which gives you a pool of craft points (this is DISTINCT from your Craft Reserve, which is an XP buffer) that are spent instead of taking a lot of time.

That's what I was using for the artificer in my current campaign before she got incinerated.

Try to craft Eternal Wands (Magic Item compendium) for spells you know you'll need to cast at least twice a day. Our Artificer had an Eternal Wand of Shield.

tyckspoon
2009-11-01, 06:56 PM
Isn't that one of those 1 minute casting time infusions? How long can I hold the charge for?


You're the one playing the Artificer. It might be a good idea for you to get familiar with your infusions; you have more than just UMD to play with. As for holding the charge, go look up Touch Spells (in brief- you can hold it forever as long as you (a) don't try to cast anything else before you use it and (b) don't touch anything with your hands. That second requirement usually makes a long-term hold near impossible.)

Boci
2009-11-01, 06:57 PM
If your DM allows Unearthed Arcana, ask him if you can have the Craft Point variant, which gives you a pool of craft points (this is DISTINCT from your Craft Reserve, which is an XP buffer) that are spent instead of taking a lot of time.

Do they replace anything?


That's what I was using for the artificer in my current campaign before she got incinerated.

Oh well, it happens.


Try to craft Eternal Wands (Magic Item compendium) for spells you know you'll need to cast at least twice a day. Our Artificer had an Eternal Wand of Shield.

I'll look around and see if anyone has that book.

Boci
2009-11-01, 06:58 PM
You're the one playing the Artificer. It might be a good idea for you to get familiar with your infusions; you have more than just UMD to play with. As for holding the charge, go look up Touch Spells (in brief- you can hold it forever as long as you (a) don't try to cast anything else before you use it and (b) don't touch anything with your hands. That second requirement usually makes a long-term hold near impossible.)

Its also my first time playing the artificer and my DM has the copy of the ECS. Thanks for the info about holding the charge, its good to know.

ShadowFighter15
2009-11-01, 07:22 PM
The Eternal Wands are on page 265 of the Eberron Campaign Setting as well (which I assume is the book you're referring to when you use the acronym EHB).

Also; the artificer Aslan mentioned wasn't his character, it was a character in a game he was DMing. I it was the Red Hand of Doom campaign he's got a link to in his sig. I know it's a little nitpicky, but that campaign journal's a good read.

Boci
2009-11-01, 07:30 PM
The Eternal Wands are on page 265 of the Eberron Campaign Setting as well

Cool, don't have to ask my DM. (Some jokes of mine such as "Can I make a locate city bomb?" or "Can I play the crystalkeep version of the Xvart race?" have resulted in "no" being the default answer to any requests of mine)


(which I assume is the book you're referring to when you use the acronym EHB).

Oops, right you are. Thought it was called the Eberron Handbook.


Also; the artificer Aslan mentioned wasn't his character, it was a character in a game he was DMing. I it was the Red Hand of Doom campaign he's got a link to in his sig. I know it's a little nitpicky, but that campaign journal's a good read.

Okay.

PinkysBrain
2009-11-01, 07:40 PM
Isn't that one of those 1 minute casting time infusions?
1 minute unless you spend an action point ... if you do spend the action point though you can use it to put Bane (whatever you are fighting) on your weapon, which is very powerful at low level.

How long can I hold the charge for?
Indefinitely, unfortunately the first thing you touch discharges the spell ... so you can't be the one to open doors (but you never really want to be that guy any way). Unfortunately you can't use Bane on the weapon, unless you know what you are up against ahead of time.

Right now just core and the EHB, but the DM has promised to exspand as soon as those new to D&D have grasped the basics.
That limits the way of getting extra action points and boosting your UMD skill. So it comes down to chosing good scrolls and good weapons at the moment till you get to level 5/6 and you can start blasting (you can start using metamagic item infusion and metamagic spell strigger to boost wands of scorching ray and acid arrow with quicken and maximize).

Get some scrolls of entangle, true strike, spike growth (the 2nd level version from the ranger) for offensive use. Also utility spells and spells for when combat goes FUBAR, which the real casters don't usually want to prepare such as wind wall, fog cloud, knock. Shillelagh and enlarge person work nicely if you have time to buff ... just get a large club (you can wield it as a two handed weapon with a -2 to attack) cast enlarge person and shillelagh and hey presto, you have a 4D6 weapon.

PS. don't forget, always keep a potion of invisibility on you as soon as you can afford it ... being the last one alive means you win :)

Vizzerdrix
2009-11-01, 08:35 PM
.

I split the first level scrolls between the wizard and the cleric (magic domain) so they could cast them without a chance of failure but kept the 2nd level ones.
So in the first combat when I was actually equipped went like this:



Why? they can't use scrolls you make.

As for resource management, only a chump makes things for other people for free, so if someone wants something, as them to pay for the gp to make it (1/2 market value)

Boci
2009-11-01, 08:36 PM
Why? they can't use scrolls you make.

Huh? Why not?


As for resource management, only a chump makes things for other people for free, so if someone wants something, as them to pay for the gp to make it (1/2 market value)

There is a party fund which I use to craft things.

Vizzerdrix
2009-11-01, 08:40 PM
It was errata to keep the articifer from filling up a wizard/Archivist's spell book.

And the party fund for crafting is a superb idea. I wish I could get my group to do that.

Around level 4 or 5, you'll get to craft a homumculus. If I remember right, one of the little buggers is a crafter. This should be on the top of your to do list for creation.

Boci
2009-11-01, 08:44 PM
It was errata to keep the articifer from filling up a wizard/Archivist's spell book.

The DM ruled that the wizard could not learn the scroll into his spellbook, but could cast it.


And the party fund for crafting is a superb idea. I wish I could get my group to do that.

Ask why you should make any magical items for them then.

CockroachTeaParty
2009-11-01, 10:18 PM
Yeah, despite the Artificer's potential power, they really struggle in the early levels. I don't think things get fun until 3rd, when you can start making Wondrous Items, and if you want to make a decent blastyficer you've got to sit on your thumbs before you get Craft Wand. Even making an army of golems or homunculi is a far-reaching goal, and until you can manage a portable hole dedicated wright factory, down time is always going to be a huge issue.

This is why, realistically, I don't consider Artificer to be one of the most powerful classes. Assuming infinite time and money, yes, they're great, but they're hardly broken in most campaigns.

That said, I still think they're a lot of fun.

If you're DM will allow it, consider taking the feat Shape Soulmeld (Mage's Spectacles), for a +4 insight bonus to Spellcraft, Decipher Script, and Use Magic Device.

Boci
2009-11-02, 11:24 AM
1 minute unless you spend an action point ... if you do spend the action point though you can use it to put Bane (whatever you are fighting) on your weapon, which is very powerful at low level.

Indefinitely, unfortunately the first thing you touch discharges the spell ... so you can't be the one to open doors (but you never really want to be that guy any way). Unfortunately you can't use Bane on the weapon, unless you know what you are up against ahead of time.

Oh cool, I hadn't considered the bane weapon property. Too caught up with the classics like flaming.


That limits the way of getting extra action points and boosting your UMD skill. So it comes down to chosing good scrolls and good weapons at the moment till you get to level 5/6 and you can start blasting (you can start using metamagic item infusion and metamagic spell strigger to boost wands of scorching ray and acid arrow with quicken and maximize).

I'm going to be taking the the artisan feats for level 3 and 4 but a matemagic feat at level 6 and 9 sounds good. Maybe empower and split ray. I was going to take wand mastery but then I figured I may as well just not take spells that allow a save since the DC will suck anyway.
I actually need to know a metamgic feat to apply it to my scrolls/wands right?


Get some scrolls of entangle, true strike, spike growth (the 2nd level version from the ranger) for offensive use. Also utility spells and spells for when combat goes FUBAR, which the real casters don't usually want to prepare such as wind wall, fog cloud, knock. Shillelagh and enlarge person work nicely if you have time to buff ... just get a large club (you can wield it as a two handed weapon with a -2 to attack) cast enlarge person and shillelagh and hey presto, you have a 4D6 weapon.

I forgot about devine spells. More book reading, but also more options, which never hurt.


PS. don't forget, always keep a potion of invisibility on you as soon as you can afford it ... being the last one alive means you win :)

Will do. That should fit nicely with the inter party dynamics.


Yeah, despite the Artificer's potential power, they really struggle in the early levels. I don't think things get fun until 3rd, when you can start making Wondrous Items, and if you want to make a decent blastyficer you've got to sit on your thumbs before you get Craft Wand. Even making an army of golems or homunculi is a far-reaching goal, and until you can manage a portable hole dedicated wright factory, down time is always going to be a huge issue.

True, but even this way I used a scroll of glitterdust to disable three opponents for 1 round. If I'd been a fighter all I could have done was charge one and killed him, leaving two still threatening the wizard.


If you're DM will allow it, consider taking the feat Shape Soulmeld (Mage's Spectacles), for a +4 insight bonus to Spellcraft, Decipher Script, and Use Magic Device.

I probably won't do this. I'm already feat starved and I do not want to ask for too much none core material from the DM. Il'll just nmake myself a nice UMD enhancing item at level 3.

PinkysBrain
2009-11-02, 01:56 PM
I'm going to be taking the the artisan feats for level 3 and 4
IMO the only artisan feat which is worth it is the one which saves gold.

Experience is free (if you lag a level you get experience faster) and very rarely you will get downtime without getting enough of it to do the crafting anyway (ie. 8 days instead of 10).

Maybe empower and split ray.
I was sticking to core feats ... I'd take maximize over empower, empower is cheaper with metamagic spell trigger but maximize is better with metamatic item (also I personally restrict myself to 1 metamagic feat with each, to keep things interesting and somewhat balanced ... there is a good rules basis for it in the "Same Effect with Differing Results" rule from the PHB).

Quicken is also good to get a quick buff up (persistent is even better, but persistent is cheesy as hell).

I actually need to know a metamgic feat to apply it to my scrolls/wands right?
Yep.

Il'll just nmake myself a nice UMD enhancing item at level 3.
Be very careful with the DMG custom magic item guidelines ... they are extremely fragile.

Boci
2009-11-02, 02:12 PM
IMO the only artisan feat which is worth it is the one which saves gold.

Experience is free (if you lag a level you get experience faster) and very rarely you will get downtime without getting enough of it to do the crafting anyway (ie. 8 days instead of 10).

I agree on the time one, but we level by milestones (the DM just decides when we've achieved enough without keeping track of XP) so that makes overspending my craft reserve problematic.


I was sticking to core feats ... I'd take maximize over empower, empower is cheaper with metamagic spell trigger but maximize is better with metamatic item (also I personally restrict myself to 1 metamagic feat with each, to keep things interesting and somewhat balanced ... there is a good rules basis for it in the "Same Effect with Differing Results" rule from the PHB).

Quicken is also good to get a quick buff up (persistent is even better, but persistent is cheesy as hell).

I always liked split ray, but I might take maximuze over empower. I'll take split ray at level 9 by which time the DM will probably allow complete arcane.


Be very careful with the DMG custom magic item guidelines ... they are extremely fragile.

I'll work something out with my DM. The worst he can do is say that UMD is a special skill, so it will cost more.

CockroachTeaParty
2009-11-02, 02:48 PM
Don't forget that the time-saving crafting feat is something of a trap, too. You only get a few precious UMD checks to try to make an item. If you use that feat on a big, expensive item, you're actually robbing yourself of chances to succeed at actually making the item.

PinkysBrain
2009-11-02, 03:36 PM
I agree on the time one, but we level by milestones (the DM just decides when we've achieved enough without keeping track of XP)
I hope he lets you replace the XP component of Spellstoring Item infusion with a GP component then.

Boci
2009-11-02, 03:43 PM
I hope he lets you replace the XP component of Spellstoring Item infusion with a GP component then.

That has an XP component? Dam. Oh well, I'll have to bring it up with him next session. Once I get retain essence I can craft beyond my craft reserve by sacrifices my share of the treasure. A bit ineficiant in raw gp terms, but the gear will be customized to suit the party.

Coidzor
2009-11-02, 04:47 PM
Its also my first time playing the artificer and my DM has the copy of the ECS. Thanks for the info about holding the charge, its good to know.

Crystal Keep can give you a bit of a hand there... (http://crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Infusions-Artificer.pdf)

tyckspoon
2009-11-02, 05:50 PM
Oh cool, I hadn't considered the bane weapon property. Too caught up with the classics like flaming.


Yeah, Bane (Whatever just came around the corner) is one of the low-level Artificer's best tricks. If you can't reliably reduce the casting time or get away with holding the charge until you know what you're fighting, the Earthbound property looks like a decent general-purpose substitution; it gives your weapon +2 hit and damage as long as both you and your target are on the ground. You likely aren't running into a lot of flying enemies yet and you don't have much capacity to fly yourself, so it should be generally applicable. Not as awesome as the full Bane, but having an effective +2 weapon at level 2/3 is still well ahead of the curve.

Boci
2009-11-03, 05:29 PM
Also, at 2nd level, if I make a scroll of glitterdust it costs 75gp and 6XP right? What is the duration? 1 or 2 rounds?

AslanCross
2009-11-03, 06:31 PM
Do they replace anything?


Sorry for the late reply---Craft Points replace the standard crafting mechanic that measures progress in SP per day.

Myrmex
2009-11-03, 07:30 PM
Also, at 2nd level, if I make a scroll of glitterdust it costs 75gp and 6XP right? What is the duration? 1 or 2 rounds?

What's the caster level?

[edit]
Since price is based on caster level, the market price of a scroll of glitterdust is 2 (spell level) x 2 (caster level) x 75, right? Half that for crafting cost.

So 2 rounds.

Kobold-Bard
2009-11-03, 08:20 PM
Dunno if it's been mentioned, or indeed if it's of any use to you. But here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a) is a way for Artificers to save on their Craft Reserve/personal XP by draining the XP for crafting items straight out of other people and into the item.

Useful when the party Fighter comes to you every other day wanting a new piece of magical equipment at discount price.

Boci
2009-11-04, 05:20 PM
Sorry for the late reply---Craft Points replace the standard crafting mechanic that measures progress in SP per day.

So a raw power boost to mundane crafting? Thyat's good, since currently, unless my math's are off, if you have a craft mod of +10 and want to make a mighty +2 long bow, you can take a 10 on your craft checks and be ready in just under 8 weeks.



Since price is based on caster level, the market price of a scroll of glitterdust is 2 (spell level) x 2 (caster level) x 75, right? Half that for crafting cost.

Scrolls cost spell level (2) x minimum caster level (3) x 25gp.


Dunno if it's been mentioned, or indeed if it's of any use to you. But here (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060526a) is a way for Artificers to save on their Craft Reserve/personal XP by draining the XP for crafting items straight out of other people and into the item.

Useful when the party Fighter comes to you every other day wanting a new piece of magical equipment at discount price.

Thanks for the link, I'll show it to my DM. Might not allow it, but its worth a try.

Boci
2009-11-05, 09:32 AM
Also, doesn't a scroll of silence shut down casters who do not have the silent spell feat? Or am I giving it to much power?

Johel
2009-11-05, 09:55 AM
Also, doesn't a scroll of silence shut down casters who do not have the silent spell feat? Or am I giving it to much power?

Correct.
But they must remain in the area and any spells already in effect keep working, meaning a smart caster will just run away (or take off) once he stops hearing the sound of battle.
You can target a caster directly but then, he gets a Will Save.

Boci
2009-11-05, 11:11 AM
Correct.
But they must remain in the area and any spells already in effect keep working, meaning a smart caster will just run away (or take off) once he stops hearing the sound of battle.
You can target a caster directly but then, he gets a Will Save.

Sweet. I was thinking of casting it on the fighter's boots and then have him charge grapple the mage. Should be quite effective at lower levels.