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View Full Version : Comparing Neverwinter Night DnD rules and PnP



Argeus
2009-11-01, 06:05 PM
Inspired by a mild thread derailment I've caused over the Wiz 13 v. Fighter 20 thread.

Neverwinter Nights is based on DnD 3rd edition, as far as I know. However, there seem to be major differences between computer game rules and PnP rules. In particular, wizards seem (I've been argued otherwise, but I'll state it here) to be much weaker vs. a closing on fighter than in PnP-verse. Most often, my fighter can land consecutive hits on a wizard casting spell and interrupt him EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Long story short, discuss the major differences between DnD in NWN and PnP here.

Siosilvar
2009-11-01, 06:08 PM
Missing a lot of noncombat and utility spells (even those used in combat -- see Flight, Glitterdust, Wind Wall, etc. for examples).

Movement is 2D only.

Ranges tend to be somewhat shorter.

Crafty Cultist
2009-11-01, 06:13 PM
the main difference between video games and PnP is the wizard's spell list. a video game has fewer of the miscelaneous spells such as fly and force cage and the terrain is generally not an issue(it is usually imposible to manipulate)
a video game wizard cannot use their magic to stay out of reach or manipulate the battle feild, and the short range ot which combat takes place means they can only cast a few spells before the fighter engages them in melee

edit:Ninja'd

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-01, 06:14 PM
Can't create your own plane in NWN.

Boci
2009-11-01, 06:18 PM
Can't create your own plane in NWN.

It did have the map editor...

Another thing working against the wizard is the lack of the 5ft step mechanics. Although some people would consider that a good thing.

Aron Times
2009-11-01, 06:23 PM
Martial characters fare better than casters because attacks resolve immediately, unlike spells, all of which have a three second casting time. Also, characters can move and full attack at the same time, negating most martial characters' weakness.

NWN1, in my opinion, has much better gameplay than its successor. NWN2 has nice graphics, but is still quite unstable several years after its release.

I recommend playing the Shadows of Undrentide/Hordes of the Underdark (1 to 30) campaign in NWN1 and Mask of the Betrayer (18 to 30) in NWN2. The evil endings for both campaigns are VERY satisfying.

The other campaigns are a bit disappointing.

mostlyharmful
2009-11-01, 06:45 PM
'I bind an Efreeti and Wish for a cup of tea...'
'no you don't.'
'I cast fly and ignore him....'
'no, you don't.'
'I Shapechange into whatever I damn well feel like....'
'no, you don't.'
'I cast contingency to get me the hell out of this...'
'nope....'
'ok.... how about teleport?'
'nah-ah'
'Invisibility???? you gotta at least give me that?'
'I don't have to give you anything that an automated IT drone with a decent item pick couldn't do...'

jmbrown
2009-11-01, 06:59 PM
Enemies in NWN (and D&D games in general) also have stacked effects that make them nearly invulnerable to spells. "Bosses" automatically have every buff cast on them, most enemies of your level are practically immune to the more devastating spells, and nearly every end game enemy has ridiculous spell resistance or immunity.

You can solo as a mage but it relies heavily on the 10-second rest (which might have been an inspiration for 4th ed's "encounter" powers), drawing enemies away from groups and spamming summon monster which has a 24 hour(!) duration.

Edit: Also, the panther or fairy familiar was overpowered as all get out. Your familiar was always 1 level above you.


'Invisibility???? you gotta at least give me that?'
'I don't have to give you anything that an automated IT drone with a decent item pick couldn't do...'

Invisibility didn't even work properly in NWN. If you stood next to an invisible character you could magically see and attack them. You couldn't target them with a spell or effect but you could still attack.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-11-01, 07:00 PM
Try Clericzilla instead; I found it much easier.

mostlyharmful
2009-11-01, 07:02 PM
Invisibility didn't even work properly in NWN. If you stood next to an invisible character you could magically see and attack them. You couldn't target them with a spell or effect but you could still attack.

Hence why it goes on the list of things NWNs fails at utterly.

Boci
2009-11-01, 07:02 PM
Edit: Also, the panther or fairy familiar was overpowered as all get out. Your familiar was always 1 level above you.

I remeber the fireball casting wizard in the prison. Always a head ache. When I was playing a sorceror the only way I managed to do it was select the panther familiar, posses it, and send it ahead to the kill him.

Starbuck_II
2009-11-01, 07:09 PM
Another issue in NWN, size weapons, spiked chain is exotic, etc.

I will grant that monks are decent in the game due to the cheap monk items.

JonestheSpy
2009-11-01, 07:21 PM
I will grant that monks are decent in the game due to the cheap monk items.

Well, they pile on the items because monks are even more crippled than mages in NWN -of course, they start off from bad source material.

It'd be interesting if a video game had an option to tweak the classes a bit, like in real games. I'm sure some folks would abuse it, but those are probably the same types who track down all the cheats anyway.

Cainen
2009-11-01, 07:40 PM
On top of all that, Fighters have abilities that actually do something worthwhile in NWN. Knockdown, for one, is a showstopper against anything not immune to it/without a high AC and it doesn't have any prerequisites.

Kesnit
2009-11-01, 07:42 PM
Tweak the classes a bit, like in real games. I'm sure some folks would abuse it, but those are probably the same types who track down all the cheats anyway.

Ask and ye shall receive.

http://www.nwnprc.com/news.php

wormwood
2009-11-01, 07:42 PM
That's the beauty of NWN. You CAN customize just about everything in the game. Where the series really wins is the multiplayer servers.

Korivan
2009-11-01, 08:17 PM
The fact is there is no computer game out there that can match a persons imagination. Unless it was turn-bassed, graphics were turned down a few notches, and the battle/out of battle system was horribly complex, even then you can't incorperat EVERYTHING into a computer game.

In NWN and other DnD based computer games, a sorcerer actually is (in my opinion) better then a wizard. More spells, and the fact you don't have to prepare ahead of time. Plus, in a game where your spell selection goes from thousands to a few dozen, some of which are simply higher level versions of each other, there just isn't the need to have a Batman class when Batman is limited to just Coke products. Where as PnP Batman had Coke, Pepsi, Faygo, Jones, etc. and also the whole darn jerky section too. This kind of reminds me of Baldur's Gate, you could get a spell called "Detect Evil"...uterly useless.

Personally, I didn't have much problem playing a wizard in NWN, NWN2, IceWind Dale 1 or 2, Baldur's Gate (2nd edition). But I'd play through so many times that I knew exactly what to prepare, what to expect. But even so, its a heck of lot easier to play wizards in PnP, where the rules arn't so LIMITED. Still, these games are fun, but remember, PnP has near infinite more options over computer.

Dragonmuncher
2009-11-01, 10:03 PM
Well, they pile on the items because monks are even more crippled than mages in NWN -of course, they start off from bad source material.


Mm, actually, I think the reason why monks can be so good in NWN is because you fight a LOT more weak enemies.

Monk with some decent stats and equipment. Flurry of Blows (extra attacks). Circle Kick (gives you a free attack whenever you hit an enemy). Great Cleave. Kobolds that can die within 1 or 2 hits.


I've had a monk run into a horde of zombies, and kill them all within 12 seconds. Hit, circlekick, cleave to hit, circle kick off that cleave, cleave off that circle kick, on and on and on.

Dr. Lagrangian
2009-11-01, 11:44 PM
casters and resting
the power of the casters in NWN depend largely on how rest mechanics work.

in the original campaign and by default: you can rest anywhere safe (ie when you kill all nearby monsters). So as a sorc or wizard, you could use all your spells on everything, rest and repeat.

this is fine if the module is built for it: ie large amounts of mooks, and it works for both casters and melee. For the main campaign, I actually prefer melee since I don't have to retreat and rest every five minutes (and there are so many enemies you have to).

Other modules (and many good ones) are built differently. you might only be able to rest every once in a while: in a bed/campsite (via a conversation and custom script), in safe rooms (again by custom script), using a bedroll (by custom item script). its easy to do, and if it matches the module, it works well.

but the module has to be built for it.

A module built for a melee class (I enjoy one particular module based on a rogue adventure) can get away with lots of enemies. But deal with those same enemies as a wizard, and you'll be running back to town every minute.

so it doesn't always work.

jmbrown
2009-11-01, 11:54 PM
I forgot to add that NWN considered you "flanking" whenever another character was engaged in melee with the target. By that effect, a rogue practically had infinite sneak attack as long as someone else was fighting his target monster. Made them ridiculously overpowered.

Paulus
2009-11-01, 11:58 PM
So which do you think is the best D&D 3.5 emulator?
And do you think they'll ever try for the ps3 with it?

Douglas
2009-11-02, 12:02 AM
How to beat the official campaigns: 1) Be a wizard or sorcerer. 2) Have a Panther familiar. 3) Take a melee combatant henchman. 4) Always have one of your highest level Summon Monster spells active. They last 24 hours and you can rest almost any time, so this is not a problem. 5) Don't bother casting a single spell as you watch your gang of no less than three powerful thugs (seriously, the panther and the summoned monster will each be on par with or better than your henchman) kill all opposition without your help. The occasional boss fight may require some pre-buffing and actual casting in combat, but your minions will be plenty for most things.

Paulus
2009-11-02, 12:03 AM
How to beat the official campaigns: 1) Be a wizard or sorcerer. 2) Have a Panther familiar. 3) Take a melee combatant henchman. 4) Always have one of your highest level Summon Monster spells active. They last 24 hours and you can rest almost any time, so this is not a problem. 5) Don't bother casting a single spell as you watch your gang of no less than three powerful thugs kill all opposition without your help. The occasional boss fight may require some pre-buffing and actual casting in combat, but your minions will be plenty for most things.

Reminds me of mastermind from CoV.

jmbrown
2009-11-02, 12:04 AM
So which do you think is the best D&D 3.5 emulator?
And do you think they'll ever try for the ps3 with it?

Temple of Elemental Evil had the closest variation of the rules.

And 3.5 is dead as far as Hasbro and Wizards are concerned. There'll never be an (official; the OGL license is still in effect) D&D 3E product.

Argeus
2009-11-02, 12:11 AM
I have a different formula:

- Start as a Fighter, focus all stat points on Strength and Intellect, the rest at 10.
- Gain 2 Wiz level for every Fighter.
- Take the Weapon Master PrC with Greatsword.
- Begin every battle by casting Mage Armor/Shield/Ghostly Visage/Flame/Keen/Greater Magic Weapon/Bull Strength/Cat's Grace/Endurance/Endure Element.

What you would have at the end would be someone with every combat-related stat at +12, Flame, Keen weapon, Concealment, Damage Reduction 20, elemental absorb 30. Not to mention all the benefits of the Weapon Master PrC

See? This game is broken.

jmbrown
2009-11-02, 12:17 AM
I have a different formula:

- Start as a Fighter, focus all stat points on Strength and Intellect, the rest at 10.
- Gain 2 Wiz level for every Fighter.
- Take the Weapon Master PrC with Greatsword.
- Begin every battle by casting Mage Armor/Shield/Ghostly Visage/Flame/Keen/Greater Magic Weapon/Bull Strength/Cat's Grace/Endurance/Endure Element.

What you would have at the end would be someone with every combat-related stat at +12, Flame, Keen weapon, Concealment, Damage Reduction 20, elemental absorb 30. Not to mention all the benefits of the Weapon Master PrC

See? This game is broken.

Enemy spell caster casts dispel.

Every spell caster in that game succeeds on their spell caster check.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-11-02, 12:18 AM
Enemy spell caster casts dispel.

As a clericzilla I never had dispel magic cast on me, let alone succeed. It was odd.

Baron Corm
2009-11-02, 12:20 AM
Well, they pile on the items because monks are even more crippled than mages in NWN -of course, they start off from bad source material.

IMO monks are the best class in NWN1. They can use gauntlets along with flurry of blows, giving them the same or greater damage than any other melee class, along with extra attacks. Roughly 2 million extra attacks if you dual-wield kamas. Power Attack isn't in this game*, so the lack of 2H is not a drawback.

Their class features are very nice as well; a heal, a displacement effect, and as a capstone they get immunity to mind-affecting. Their increased movement speed makes playing the game much less of a hassle. And they can get the highest AC of any class, thanks to Boots of the Sun Soul + all of their other bonuses. Between their saves and spell resistance, there's pretty much no mage which will be able to affect them, either. There is no assay spell resistance in this game.

By contrast, fighters have very few good feats to pick from, and barbarian rage doesn't stack with item bonuses. Now why would you say monks are crippled?

*Edit: Actually it is in the game, it just doesn't increase in damage for 2-handed weapons, and only ever goes up to +10/-10 with a two feat investment.

Kylarra
2009-11-02, 12:25 AM
Power attack did exist in NWN1, it's just it was modal and thus the time it took to engage power attack could often be time spent actually killing things you can afford to take -5 to hit on against anyway.

tyckspoon
2009-11-02, 12:35 AM
Their class features are very nice as well; a heal, a displacement effect, and as a capstone they get immunity to mind-affecting. Their increased movement speed makes playing the game much less of a hassle. And they can get the highest AC of any class, thanks to Boots of the Sun Soul + all of their other bonuses. Between their saves and spell resistance, there's pretty much no mage which will be able to affect them, either. There is no assay spell resistance in this game.


Did somebody mention the magic items yet? 'cause somebody really should mention the magic items. :smalltongue:

Seriously, in both NWN1 and 2 the best reason to take the Use Magic Device skill is so you can use class and/or race-restricted items. Scrolls and Wands don't work too well in the game (in part because you pretty much have to rely on what you can find or buy- you can technically make your own, but the costs are ridiculously out of proportion to the power.) Which ends up being another factor in martial-type characters being better in the games then they are in the tabletop; caster extenders aren't of much use, while martial extenders (ie, healing items) get thrown at you in huge piles and are more effective.

jmbrown
2009-11-02, 12:39 AM
As a clericzilla I never had dispel magic cast on me, let alone succeed. It was odd.

The AI seems to know what spells to cast on you when it's most appropriate. For example, the wizard in that dungeon in the rich district will cast fireball normally but if you have a spell that gives you fire resistance he'll cast ice storm.

Clerics are stupidly overpowered in both NWN games so I doubt the AI had a chance to do anything other than attack and pound on you with whatever ultimately failed spell it could muster.

The computer always cheats. Always.

Kylarra
2009-11-02, 12:43 AM
Although even with cheating you could always out think their little hardwired brains. HiPS with the shadowdancer in NWN1 was pretty awesome iirc.

tyckspoon
2009-11-02, 12:44 AM
The computer always cheats. Always.

Unless it's on *your* side, in which case it will cheerfully throw Meteor Swarms at kobolds. *grumble grumble* If I'd set the thing on 'always use maximum power' I could expect that, but that's not what 'use appropriate power' means!

SurlySeraph
2009-11-02, 12:46 AM
I actually didn't believe the whole "Druids are ludicrously overpowered in 3.5" thing until I played through that battle against the lizardman druid in NWN2. I walked in thinking "OK, druid, that's interesting. He'll summon a bunch of things so I'll use Dismissal when they get annoying, and focus on just hitting him. I mean, what's the worst he can do, turn into a bear?"
I strolled in merrily, and the next thing I knew there were fire elementals everywhere, the druid was one of them, and half my party was dead.
It took me well over an hour of trying before I beat him.
So, to bring this back on topic, the NWN rules aren't too far off the PnP rules, but better items for melee and less options for casters help tilt things a bit.

Akal Saris
2009-11-02, 12:53 AM
As a sidetrack, how important is having a rogue in the party in NWN or NWN2?

I've always been a huge fan of conjurers, so I was thinking of doing a conjurer or sorcerer main guy along with the aforementioned panther and doing Summon Monster - with the cohort being a rogue, or if rogues aren't that useful then some other melee character.

AstralFire
2009-11-02, 12:54 AM
There is no reason to have a rogue in NWN1.

There are marginal reasons to have a rogue in NWN2, most of them negated by Neeshka's voice (OC) or having to be evil (MotB).

SurlySeraph
2009-11-02, 12:58 AM
There are marginal reasons to have a rogue in NWN2, most of them negated by Neeshka's voice (OC) or having to be evil (MotB).

You seem to be implying that Neeshka is not awesome. But surely I'm mistaken, no one could ever think Neeshka isn't one of the best characters in the entire game.
Why did they take out the romance subplot with Neeshka and leave in the romance with Stalker McDruidFace? WHY?!

AstralFire
2009-11-02, 01:00 AM
I didn't mind Elanee, but she wasn't spectacular.

Personally, I wish they'd done more with Qara. She felt like a colossal dropped ball. Giving Casavir a personality beyond "I am a really, really great guy who has been emotionally traumatized" would have been nice too.

Akal Saris
2009-11-02, 01:07 AM
So in place of a rogue, what's a strong and/or fun/interesting melee sidekick? In BG, I was a fan of Kivan (the elven ranger), Minsc, and Anomen.

SurlySeraph
2009-11-02, 01:09 AM
Exactly. Elanee has no personality beyond "Stalker-ish and Lawful-ish and nature-loving," and Casavir is as you said. They were going to include romances for Neeshka and Bishop, who are both considerably more interesting characters, but they didn't. ARGH.

Seconded on Qara. She could have been very interesting if they'd gone beyond "She's a violent pyromaniac because people discriminate against her," or given her some character development so that she eventually becomes something other than a witty violent pyromaniac. Of course, my main objection to her was her tendency to cast Fireball on lone bugbears with whom the rest of my party was engaged in melee, but the casting AI is a different and even less on-topic issue.

EDIT:

So in place of a rogue, what's a strong and/or fun/interesting melee sidekick? In BG, I was a fan of Kivan (the elven ranger), Minsc, and Anomen.

Khelgar! He's a dwarf. He acts dwarfy. He smashes things. He wants to be a monk. Want more complexity? No you don't. Dwarves are awesome as they are. And he's the first companion you get, and he stays useful throughout.

Sliver
2009-11-02, 01:52 AM
Khelgar! He's a dwarf. He acts dwarfy. He smashes things. He wants to be a monk. Want more complexity? No you don't. Dwarves are awesome as they are. And he's the first companion you get, and he stays useful throughout.

But his stats aren't even good to be a monk, there isn't much going for him in the monk buisness.. So he would be super-fast.. like a human. And he will get all the stat increase because he levels up again from 1 to w/e you were..

Did anyone even take their special PrC that you could take only in the last chapter?

Eldariel
2009-11-02, 03:49 AM
Did anyone even take their special PrC that you could take only in the last chapter?

Neverwinter Nine? Nope, though it's not horrible for martial types at least from what I've read on the game forums. I always played through it with casters (other than that one Monk-run) 'cause of my PnP roots so I never really had a chance. Druid (/Monk 1)/Cleric/Druid/Wizard/Sorcerer = Win Party, though Zhaejve was quite possibly the most annoying character in the game and Elanee wasn't all that either (though I didn't mind the romance subplot with her; some alternatives would've been nice though - they should learn from Baldur's Gate).

Btw, it's funny that Casavir actually has higher point buy than average character in the game and yet he still has insufficient points to really be a good Paladin :smalltongue: And yeah, casting AI was the primary I reason the first thing I did in the damn game was cram everyone on puppet mode (other being the idiots' tendency to run after the target they're attacking when it escapes and provoke half a hundred AoOs when the game decided AoOs worked).

The_Werebear
2009-11-02, 05:10 AM
But his stats aren't even good to be a monk, there isn't much going for him in the monk buisness.. So he would be super-fast.. like a human. And he will get all the stat increase because he levels up again from 1 to w/e you were..


Fun thing about Khelgar- If you leveled him up all the way, and then had him respecialize into monk, it reset his level to one, but kept all stat boosts you'd given him while leveling him in fighter. So, you could compensate for his originally not great monk stats.

Also, he rocks. Because he's Khelgar.

Sliver
2009-11-02, 05:39 AM
Fun thing about Khelgar- If you leveled him up all the way, and then had him respecialize into monk, it reset his level to one, but kept all stat boosts you'd given him while leveling him in fighter. So, you could compensate for his originally not great monk stats.

Yeah, that is what I meant when I said:


And he will get all the stat increase because he levels up again from 1 to w/e you were..

But does he actually gets stronger? Having to boost his Wis is just because he no longer wears his heavy armor, no longer has his weapons too.. He is like that player that thinks monks are awesome when he wants to brawl like a madman.. why not be something like an unarmed barbarian? His stats were more suited for that, and his mentality was not that suited for a monk IMO..

Aron Times
2009-11-02, 10:28 AM
Khelgar is awesome. Almost as awesome as Kenpachi. Also, Obsidian overcompensated for his weak class (fighter) by giving him three artifacts that only he can use later in the game, making him even more badass. And unlike the player character's artifact (which is incredibly underpowered), the ones he has are really powerful.

Ensemble darkhorse, anyone?

LibraryOgre
2009-11-02, 10:35 AM
Thing that annoyed the heck out of me in NWN2? Just for grins, I tried playing a Tiefling Monk... figured I would bond with both of my first two companions. Can my monk teach Khelgar how to be a monk? Nooooo. Does Neeshka care that I'm alsoa tiefling? Noooo. Heck, when you play a druid everyone ignores that you are, also, a druid.

Thus, I tend to get bored of it. My character is the sounding board off which everyone elses neuroses play.

Eldariel
2009-11-02, 10:37 AM
Thing that annoyed the heck out of me in NWN2? Just for grins, I tried playing a Tiefling Monk... figured I would bond with both of my first two companions. Can my monk teach Khelgar how to be a monk? Nooooo. Does Neeshka care that I'm alsoa tiefling? Noooo. Heck, when you play a druid everyone ignores that you are, also, a druid.

Elanee does react to you being a Wood Elf at least though. And I think there is SOME dialogue if you play a Druid, though I don't remember how much. Monk? 0 dialogue with ANYONE. Even the Monasteries, Khelgar or anyone who clearly SHOULD have a lot of dialogue in that regard (except for of course the Sun Soul Monastery you can build at the end).

AstralFire
2009-11-02, 11:02 AM
I had a Bard/EK build that somehow used Neverwinter Nine for a level dip or something. It is not a particularly good, though not terrible, class.

Akal Saris
2009-11-02, 11:11 AM
I'm playing a halfling bard as the party face for my group in Icewind Dale II (I know...I'm so far behind the curve...), and I've been pretty impressed at the racial/class dialogue in the game - he's had about 9-10 dialogues so far that got a bonus (and once a penalty) from being a bard or a halfling.

LibraryOgre
2009-11-02, 11:48 AM
I'm playing a halfling bard as the party face for my group in Icewind Dale II (I know...I'm so far behind the curve...), and I've been pretty impressed at the racial/class dialogue in the game - he's had about 9-10 dialogues so far that got a bonus (and once a penalty) from being a bard or a halfling.

You're not behind the curve. Icewind Dale and Icewind Dale II are damn fine games. Solid, fun to play. 2 wasn't as faithful to 3e as it might have been (especially in feats), and didn't get the attention to make it great, but it is still a solid game.

My goal: To solo that game. I've almost managed it, but I forgot about Prot:Magicing the main bad guys at the end, so my tiefling druid ran into trouble... then I lost the saves. :-(

Wings of Peace
2009-11-02, 02:40 PM
It'd be interesting if a video game had an option to tweak the classes a bit, like in real games. I'm sure some folks would abuse it, but those are probably the same types who track down all the cheats anyway.

Monks in NWN Get:

-All the goods combat skills: Concentration, Discipline, Hide, Move Silenetly, TUMBLE

-The best attack progression (Play your cards right and you will easily get more attacks per round than the other classes)

-Improved Knockdown for Free (This is good)

-Unarmed Combat Damage (Say what you will about your enchantments. a d20 in NWN especially after you get gauntlets will hurt. It's true in PvE, and depending on your server it will generally be true in PVP)

-Movement Speed Increase (Makes traveling maps faster and with some cheapness lets you attack and flee before their attack routine even starts.)

Epic Monks in NWN Get:

-Spell Resistance Feats(This is frankly if you built right all you will need in many instances especially if you play Local Vault servers. Full immunity to magic is a big deal. If you're on a multi-player server it's even better for PvP)

Akal Saris
2009-11-02, 10:23 PM
You're not behind the curve. Icewind Dale and Icewind Dale II are damn fine games. Solid, fun to play. 2 wasn't as faithful to 3e as it might have been (especially in feats), and didn't get the attention to make it great, but it is still a solid game.

My goal: To solo that game. I've almost managed it, but I forgot about Prot:Magicing the main bad guys at the end, so my tiefling druid ran into trouble... then I lost the saves. :-(

Whoa, you seriously managed to get through all of IW2 until the boss with a single character, without dying?! On normal difficulty? That's insane!

Edit: I'm still at the haunted woods part, so please don't spoil any of the future parts in replies ^^;;

Douglas
2009-11-02, 10:42 PM
Well, you do level up a bit faster when you don't have to split XP.

That reminds me, there's an amusing and rather ridiculous way to game the XP system in Icewind Dale 2. XP rewards for defeating enemies follow the 3.x system of giving more XP for the same enemies if you are lower level. The level used to calculate XP rewards is the mathematical average of all party members' levels. A single level 19 character with five level 1 people tagging along counts as an average level 4 party and gets XP as a level 4 party. This is rather more than six times as much as a level 19 party would get, so even having to split it six ways it still comes out as more XP per person. By the higher levels, a LOT more.

So, if you really want to level up fast, only ever level up one character. Once you get to the point where level 1 characters die too easily, have that single character clear out the entire area before the rest of the party waltzes through the corpse-strewn ground with no opposition. You will hit level 30 long before the final boss fight. However, all your tagalongs got all that XP too, and the fact that you never used any of it doesn't put any cap on how much they have. You can, at that point, instantly level up all five extra characters 29 times each, achieving a party of 6 level 30 characters - with a pretty significant portion of the game left to go. For bonus points, do this with all svirfneblin, the highest level adjustment race available. The level cap is for character level, not ECL, so you'll end up with an ECL 33 party.

Zonack
2009-11-03, 12:10 AM
Inspired by a mild thread derailment I've caused over the Wiz 13 v. Fighter 20 thread.

Neverwinter Nights is based on DnD 3rd edition, as far as I know. However, there seem to be major differences between computer game rules and PnP rules. In particular, wizards seem (I've been argued otherwise, but I'll state it here) to be much weaker vs. a closing on fighter than in PnP-verse. Most often, my fighter can land consecutive hits on a wizard casting spell and interrupt him EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Long story short, discuss the major differences between DnD in NWN and PnP here.

Video Games are limited to a somehow big metal box.
PnP are infinite.

Dimers
2009-11-03, 02:54 AM
IMO monks are the best class in NWN1.

Yeah, Dr. Gothy the Monk O' Doom was the henchman I kept around. Awesome defenses, awesome offense, ESPECIALLY against hordes -- by around level 12 he was untouchable and dealt about 30% more damage per round than the double-weapon barbarian. It was pretty sick.

Argeus, the problem you mention about interrupting casters may be related to a legacy from 2nd-ed. See, interrupting a caster in second edition just required you to hit them during the measurable time it took them to cast a spell (back when all actions had speed stats). Come third edition, the replacement for that ability to interrupt became the Attack of Opportunity. In NWN, both methods were viable. So the enemy wizard you were smacking around was doing everything he could to not provoke an AoO (defensive casting), but your regular hits would ruin his concentration anyway, because the spellcasting took time. (Er, if I remember the game correctly ... it's been a while.)

Sliver
2009-11-03, 06:43 AM
Turns not being.. Ya know, turns, hurts the casters the most..

Wasn't there a fun one.. Ribsmasher or something, a crazy monk NPC?

LibraryOgre
2009-11-03, 10:25 AM
Whoa, you seriously managed to get through all of IW2 until the boss with a single character, without dying?! On normal difficulty? That's insane!

Edit: I'm still at the haunted woods part, so please don't spoil any of the future parts in replies ^^;;

Like I said, I went with a Tiefling, and straight druid. Lots of summons, buffing resistances and saves... and lots, and I mean LOTS of saves, or "retreat and sleep". Your XP climbs very quickly, and you've got your pick of loot... plus, you wind up selling so much that you have a ton of money for potions.

Eldariel
2009-11-03, 10:29 AM
Is there a way to get rerolls for "1"s on saves in IWD2? I've played the game, but never really delved into the system too much. My NWN2 solo run was repeatedly cut short by 1s on SoDs until I reached Epic and got the feat that allows rerolls on 1s (Pride-domain isn't available IIRC and I was playing a Druid anyways).

LibraryOgre
2009-11-03, 10:34 AM
Is there a way to get rerolls for "1"s on saves in IWD2? I've played the game, but never really delved into the system too much. My NWN2 solo run was repeatedly cut short by 1s on SoDs until I reached Epic and got the feat that allows rerolls on 1s (Pride-domain isn't available IIRC and I was playing a Druid anyways).

It's called Quicksave. ;-)

SmartAlec
2009-11-03, 10:36 AM
Video Games are limited to a somehow big metal box.
PnP are infinite.

NWN is only limited by the DM's ingenuity with the toolset and the custom content community.

Dimers
2009-11-04, 12:36 AM
Turns not being.. Ya know, turns, hurts the casters the most..

Wasn't there a fun one.. Ribsmasher or something, a crazy monk NPC?

Ahh, now I remember -- the name was "Grimgnaw". :smallamused:

SparkMandriller
2009-11-04, 12:40 AM
NWN is only limited by the DM's ingenuity with the toolset and the custom content community.

They implemented flight yet?

Actually, have they? I dunno, I hear about people getting up to some crazy stuff. Maybe they have. Huh.

SurlySeraph
2009-11-04, 01:28 AM
There was also Ribsmasher in NWN2, a deranged monk who was, surprisingly, enthusiastic about matters relating to the smashing of ribs.
Grimgnaw + Ribsmasher + Khelgar would be the perfect party. Just try to prove me wrong.