What if OotS goes anime?

[Argeus]

(Dunno if this goes here or the OotS discussion board. Please move if required)

What if one day the Crazy Awesome creators of KyoAni/Bone/Gainax/whatsoever find OotS "an interesting option" and buy the right to adapt it into an anime?

I'd love to see Norio "Xykon" Wakamoto or Aya "Haley" Hirano in action. Seriously.

[Madmal]

That sounds...insane.

probably not everyone's cup of tea...but i'd check it.

[TengYt]

No thanks. A lot of the comic's humour won't translate well to a medium like cartoons or anime.

[The Glyphstone]

Roy would become a Warblade?:smallbiggrin:

*ducks rotten fruit, runs and hides*

[Dienekes]

It'd look that odd anime style that everyone but me seems to like?

Really, can't think of anything else except maybe excessive pseudo martial arts during the combat.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Bones would have incredible character designs and lush artwork detailing the setting. This interpretation of the OotS world would have a sense of place and history. And probably more than one element hinting at the themes of war, personal loss and tribalized conflict (i.e. Redcloak would get some emphasis). Ultimately however, no meaningful plot or conflict materializes and the show ends up contemplating its own navel and ending on a Magical Blood(less) sacrifice that farts out world peace and rainbows. This is partly because they wasted so much time on vignettes of various minor and insignificant characters. Likewise, you're not exactly sure what the villain was supposed to add to the climax.

Gainax would have a lot of fanservice. Varsuuvius would be that indeterminate bishi-thing (for the bisexual/homosexual/fetish crowd). The show would start out lighthearted and maybe have occasional moments of incredibly depressing angst. (An episode dedicated to Haley's trust issues for example.) The show would then quickly suffer Cerberus Syndrome or end on a sweetly melancholy Downer Ending. This ending may or may not be incomprehensible.

KyoAni would do more-or-less a straight adapt but with anime art. They may try to do something creative fresh or exciting in its interpretation to distill the work down into awesomeness. However, the second season will piss off fans when they spend an disproportionate amount of episodes on filler. Or they will inexplicably run out of budget and never finish the last season.

[Tengu_temp]

Romi Paku as Vaarsuvius?

[Argeus]

Lemme guess...


Bones would have incredible character designs and lush artwork detailing the setting. This interpretation of the OotS world would have a sense of place and history. And probably more than one theme hinting at the themes of war, personal loss from such and tribalized conflict (i.e. Redcloak would get some emphasis). Ultimately however, no meaningful themes or plot or conflict materializes and the show ends up contemplating its own navel and ending on a Magical Blood(less) sacrifice that farts out world peace and rainbows. Likewise, you're not exactly sure what the villain was supposed to add to the climax.

Like Rah Xephon?


Gainax would have a lot of fanservice. Varsuuvius would be that indeterminate bishi-thing (for the bisexual/homosexual/fetish crowd). The show would start out lighthearted and maybe have occasional moments of incredibly depressing angst. (An episode dedicated to Haley's trust issues for example.) The show would then quickly suffer Cerberus Syndrome or end on a sweetly melancholy Downer Ending. This ending may or may not be incomprehensible.

Like Evangelion?


KyoAni would do more-or-less a straight adapt but with anime art. They may try to do something creative fresh or exciting in its interpretation to distill the work down into awesomeness. However, the second season will piss off ans when they spend an disproportionate amount of episodes on filler. Or they will inexplicably run out of budget and never finish the last season.

Like Haruhi Suzumiya?

[Cubey]

Do you think Norio Wakamoto would make a good Xykon? The man makes everything he appears in better, but it seems against his type. Xykon is just not dignified enough. He is a psycho, but not the cold psycho that Wakamoto also does well, but rather the "burn world, burn!" type.
I suggest Keiji Fujiwara.

Also, Tomokazu Sugita as Redcloak. Can't unsee.

Miko = Kaori Shimizu?

EDIT: The Bones example was supposed to be reminiscent of Eureka 7, I think.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Lemme guess...



Like Rah Xephon?
And Xam'd. And Eureka Seven.


Like Evangelion?
Sure. But even something like Gurren Laggann had those moments.


Like Haruhi Suzumiya?
Or Twelve Kingdoms.

[Argeus]

Also, Tomokazu Sugita as Redcloak. Can't unsee.


Kyoncloak?


Miko = Kaori Shimizu?

Darn, that makes Miko look like a Lamia Loveless expy...

[Cubey]

Darn, that makes Miko look like a Lamia Loveless expy...

Yes. I did it on purpose.

[Kojiro Kakita]

For Wakamoto I see him being Shojo.
In some ways, Shojo reminds me of Reuntal

[Starscream]

One thing is for sure: fight scenes would take even longer than they do when you actually play D&D.

[Seraph]

Clearly, the character redesigns would be handled by CLAMP.

GOODNIGHT EVERYBODY

[LurkerInPlayground]

One thing is for sure: fight scenes would take even longer than they do when you actually play D&D.
Only if it's shounen. In which case the show will be insulting enough as to assume that the audience is too stupid or too disinterested in figuring out what is going on.

Otherwise they may be dramatically brief and to the point. Or have improbably symphonic sword fights.

It depends on subgenre really.

[Green Bean]

I imagine Redcloak would be a white-haired bishonen, Haley would either be useless or a bipolar lunatic, fight scenes would be three hours long and consist mostly of explaining what they're about to do, and there'd be a ridiculous amount of homoerotic subtext between Nale and Elan. (/stereotype)

Seriously, though, I imagine it'd all depend on the studio. There'd be some changes, as a different culture means different focus in terms of plot and characters. How popular is DnD in Japan anyway? Capturing the humour of OotS wouldn't be easy, and doing a serious version would be kind of weird.

Oh, and if they release it in English, there'd be giant flame wars over whether the sub or dub is better.

[Tengu_temp]

How popular is DnD in Japan anyway?

Popular enough, judging from Slayers.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

Clearly, the character redesigns would be handled by CLAMP.

GOODNIGHT EVERYBODY
That would be hysterical.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Nah. Haley would be Tsundere. She's in love with the bumbling but good-natured loser (Elan). She just hides it with outward shows of hostility toward him because she thinks it undermines the tomboyish persona she's built up as a defense. These emotional outbursts would will often be made the butt of some slapstick humor.

She's even a redhead.

[Argeus]

Isn't Haley already a tsundere?

[LurkerInPlayground]

Isn't Haley already a tsundere?
Sure. Minus the comically exaggerated hysterical outbursts directed at Elan.

Elan, playing his part, would have to play the clueless dolt. He'll simper or otherwise dissemble in the face of yet-another-rant from Big Sister.

He's bemused by the whole thing and is too good-natured to really let it bother him. That's just Haley being Haley after all.

[Green Bean]

Popular enough, judging from Slayers.

Slayers is just DnD inspired, though. How much of a Japanese audience would get jokes about Attacks of Opportunity or Vancian casting? Obviously, it isn't exactly mainstream in the western world, but the average person on the street's probably heard of Dungeons and Dragons.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Slayers is just DnD inspired, though. How much of a Japanese audience would get jokes about Attacks of Opportunity or Vancian casting? Obviously, it isn't exactly mainstream in the western world, but the average person on the street's probably heard of Dungeons and Dragons.
If you want my genuine opinion, modern incarnations of D&D need to be considered within the framework of the legacy of D&D. It was a swords-and-sorcery war game long before it turned into a high-epic fantasy about superheroic powers. But even that is far divorced from something as stock as Lord of Rings.

That is to say, that process of fantasy becoming pop-culture is its legacy. Naruto and Final Fantasy is as much an end product of D&D and other fantasy literature as Dragonlance or Harry Potter ever was.

The whole notion of an adventuring party in video games? Partially popularized by games like D&D. And it comes up quite a bit in anime anyway. Hit points are also an abstraction that they've kept around because D&D used it first. I'm even sure that they quite grasp the notion of hermetic magic. Hell, a lot of them are probably used to "gamist" logic in their "magic systems" anyway. (Besides, I doubt most American D&D players even know who Jack Vance was anyway.)

By that token, Slayers parodies the idea of using low-fantasy heroes and expecting them to care about high-fantasy story goals. Shenanigans ensue.

Record of the Lodoss Wars is a more straightforward tribute to D&D and fantasy RPG's. But even that show was probably something of a niche-product anyway. Fantasy is relatively fringe, fads like Harry Potter and video games notwithstanding.

Besides, even in Japan, you'd have to be something of a geek to really get into anime in the first place. And something like this might have a cult following.

Besides, Japan has been bombarding us with cryptic and culturally idiosyncratic crap for years. I say we return fire and keep reminding them of how they got modernized in the first place.

[Green Bean]

Yes, Dungeons and Dragons' legacy is pretty much everywhere, but a vast number of OotS jokes are based on specific rules, which aren't really part of the legacy. Things like hitpoints and adventuring parties are one thing, but a lot of the early jokes are about things like Will Saves and edition changes.

I'm not saying that you can't make an adaptation of OotS without the specifics of DnD, just that it'd be really difficult.

[LurkerInPlayground]

Yes, Dungeons and Dragons' legacy is pretty much everywhere, but a vast number of OotS jokes are based on specific rules, which aren't really part of the legacy. Things like hitpoints and adventuring parties are one thing, but a lot of the early jokes are about things like Will Saves and edition changes.

I'm not saying that you can't make an adaptation of OotS without the specifics of DnD, just that it'd be really difficult.
Eh not really. The mechanical jokes are a bit formulaic anyway.

Just replace them with a different formula: "Haley is mad at Elan to hide her embrassment" and we're good. Even a joke about hit points is an obvious one. (Dramatic face-off. ---> Slapstick. Slash. Ow. Leaves a scratch. Slash. Ow.)

A lot of the jokes about being in a game and breaking the fourth wall is easily generalized to MMORPG's or other stock RPG's (tabletop or otherwise). Those moments will probably inevitably turn into chibi-slapstick. The Giant worked in a joke about hex-grids at one point, so its not undoable.

In any case, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a Japanese translations of D&D in its various editions floating around.

Either way, you'll have to do a lot of adapting to turn a comic into a more cinematic medium.

[Argeus]

Just replace them with a different formula: "Haley is mad at Elan to hide her embrassment" and we're good. Even a joke about hit points is an obvious one. (Dramatic face-off. ---> Slapstick. Slash. Ow. Leaves a scratch. Slash. Ow.)


Now then, that doesn't make OotS itself any more, doesn't it?

[skywalker]

Yes, Dungeons and Dragons' legacy is pretty much everywhere, but a vast number of OotS jokes are based on specific rules, which aren't really part of the legacy. Things like hitpoints and adventuring parties are one thing, but a lot of the early jokes are about things like Will Saves and edition changes.

Like it or not, the humor has been rather detached from those jokes for quite a while, IMO.

[Starscream]

fight scenes would be three hours long and consist mostly of explaining what they're about to do

They all ready sort of do that. Only instead of "Sneak Attack!" it'd be "Sneeaak AaatttAAAAAAAAAAAACK!":smallbiggrin:

I kid, otakus (can that word be pluralized?). I do like some anime. I just grew up in a house with two little brothers who were fans of Pokemon and Dragon Ball Z.

[Mando Knight]

What if one day the Crazy Awesome creators of KyoAni/Bone/Gainax/whatsoever find OotS "an interesting option" and buy the right to adapt it into an anime?

I'd love to see Norio "Xykon" Wakamoto or Aya "Haley" Hirano in action. Seriously.

Gainax. Definitely Gainax (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/StudioGainax). What other studio could produce TTGL and FLCL?

[Klose_the_Sith]

I would feel physically sick until they cancelled it? :smalltongue:

[Haruki-kun]

Haley becomes a Tsundere and is voiced by Rie Kugimiya, who sings the ending credits.

Roy says "It can't be helped" about a million times per episode.

Vaarsuvius's spells look pretty freakin' cool but take an entire episode to cast after a long series of enchantments.

....yeah, I'd check this out.

[Vic_Sage]

I would feel physically sick until they cancelled it? :smalltongue:
Why? I knew there was going to be a comment like this and I have to ask why it would be bad if done by a Anime studio?

[LurkerInPlayground]

Why? I knew there was going to be a comment like this and I have to ask why it would be bad if done by a Anime studio?
People hate Adaptation Decay.

And weeaboos.

[GoufCustom]

Only thing I can think is simply one of style. When it's so heavily based upon stick figures, turning into full people, be it anime style or western style would jsut be... strange, and I doubt it would translate well. But I do think it would at least be interesting to see how it was done, especially if it was done for laughs.

[Berserk Monk]

Elan/Nale would be shirtless 85% of the time and their rivalry we be a far more important story. Belkar would be less lethal, but he would throw a lot more violent tantrums. Durkon would be a perverted old man type character, and Haley would have started of with her current desert outfit from the comic's start.

[hanzo66]

I get a feeling that if this actually happened depending on how they draw Redcloak they'd either make him merely a green-skinned bishonen win the sympathetic backstory or draw him piglike and just make him a straight-up villain. Xykon will either be the same or be merely a pale-skinned humanoid who's basically Xellos. Tsukiko might be The Vamp of the group.

Roy might be less dark-skinned and have more hair, Haley is pure Ms Fanservice who may or may not get a dose of Chickification, Belkar might be more Chaotic Neutral/Jerk With A Heart Of Gold with a Cute Shotaro Boy look, Elan is more the star of the show and V will be a standard Romi Paku role.

For jokes they might replace the D&D jokes with JRPG jokes (complaining about slow action gauges or stuff). VA- wise, Wakamoto can do some really silly roles so he might do a fitting Xykon for both his silly moments (Chiyo's dad tone) and his mega-evil moments (Sengoku Basara Nobunaga tone). Redcloak might have Ryusei Nakao channeling Mayuri (high-pitched and slimy tone).

Of course I'm sorts just basing such things on either Beauty Equals Goodness or my limited knowledge of Japanese VAs.

[Tengu_temp]

I get a feeling that if this actually happened depending on how they draw Redcloak they'd either make him merely a green-skinned bishonen win the sympathetic backstory or draw him piglike and just make him a straight-up villain.

Now I imagine Redcloak as Takehito Koyasu. This is as amusing as it is painful. Thanks a lot.

More on seiyuu - I think both Elan and Nale should be Shinichiro Miki, only using his lovable idiot voice in the former case and handsome lech voice in the latter. Belkar I can see either as Nobuyuki Hiyama, if you want "I AM THE SEXY SHOELESS GOD OF WAR!" to be even more hotblooded, or as Kappei Yamaguchi, if you want to add extra comedy to his comedic sociopathy. Roy is a hard choice - maybe Koichi Yamadera?

EDIT: Alternate VA for Elan and Nale - Masaya Onosaka. Now I'm facing the temptation of casting Sayaka Aoki as Haley.

[Nerd-o-rama]

You mean what if it updates to 4e?

looooool.

But seriously, it'd end up pretty much being Slayers with different character archetypes.

[Haruki-kun]

I get a feeling that if this actually happened depending on how they draw Redcloak they'd either make him merely a green-skinned bishonen win the sympathetic backstory or draw him piglike and just make him a straight-up villain.

They'd probably draw him like Piccolo.

[Tengu_temp]

I just had a horrible, Macross-related idea.

Elan - Nobutoshi Canna
Roy - Takehito Koyasu

Think about it.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Dammit, Tengu.

(They're not going to spring for Yoshiki Fukuyama just to do "Bluff, bluff, bluff, bluff the stupid ogre," you know)

[kamikasei]

I just had a horrible, Macross-related idea.

*guesses*
*checks*
*is right*

You are a bad man. But I'd like to see that.

[bosssmiley]

(Dunno if this goes here or the OotS discussion board. Please move if required)

What if one day the Crazy Awesome creators of KyoAni/Bone/Gainax/whatsoever find OotS "an interesting option" and buy the right to adapt it into an anime?

I'd love to see Norio "Xykon" Wakamoto or Aya "Haley" Hirano in action. Seriously.

The cities of Japan would be smote by the unanswerable might of Little Geek and Fat Beard until they surrendered unconditionally. :smallannoyed:

"The adaptation of OOTS into a licensed anime property has not turned out to Japan's advantage." - Emperor Akahito (pace Dad)

RSJ would then tell us that "These proceedings are closed!" and threadlock the entire Japanese archipelago.

Do you really want to let them do this to OOTS? DO YOU?!?!

http://demotivatemenow.com/wp-content/main/2009_09/japan20superior20framed20wtf.jpg

personal note: I like some things about Japan. I just think people who believe anything and everything would be improved by "+anime" ruin it for the rest of us. :smallannoyed:

[Rogue 7]

The hell, man?

[kamikasei]

The hell, man?

I guess you're not allowed to like anything Japanese unless you consider everything about Japan to be better than anything else from anywhere else ever (and are highly obnoxious about proclaiming this at every opportunity). Who knew? (As it happens: not most people I know who do enjoy various things from Japan.)

[Akisa]

*wonders if this is going to be like Record of Lodoss war...*

[Prime32]

They'd probably draw him like Piccolo.With that description I was thinking more of Zeldgadis. He's supposed to be a part-human, part-demon, part-golem chimera. You'd expect him to look something like this...
http://is3.okcupid.com/users/104/656/10465692962375378952/mt1123888912.jpg
...and while Zelgadis is occasionally treated as looking like an inhuman monster, he's drawn like this:
http://media.animegalleries.net/albums/Slayers/zelgadis/slayers_zelgadis039.jpg

[Berserk Monk]

The cities of Japan would be smote by the unanswerable might of Little Geek and Fat Beard until they surrendered unconditionally. :smallannoyed:

"The adaptation of OOTS into a licensed anime property has not turned out to Japan's advantage." - Emperor Akahito (pace Dad)

RSJ would then tell us that "These proceedings are closed!" and threadlock the entire Japanese archipelago.

Do you really want to let them do this to OOTS? DO YOU?!?!

http://demotivatemenow.com/wp-content/main/2009_09/japan20superior20framed20wtf.jpg

personal note: I like some things about Japan. I just think people who believe anything and everything would be improved by "+anime" ruin it for the rest of us. :smallannoyed:

That image will forever haunt my nightmares.:smalleek:

[FoE]

Vaarsuvius now spends 100 strips powering up his/her spells.

[Berserk Monk]

Vaarsuvius now spends 100 strips powering up his/her spells.

He did get a fusion too.

[Nerd-o-rama]

He did get a fusion too.Shkle also bears a strong resemblance to one of the protagonists of the most recent full Mobile Suit Gundam series. Hair/theme color, long-range blasty person on a team, complete lack of discernable gender...


*wonders if this is going to be like Record of Lodoss war...*Nah, Slayers. RoLD takes itself too seriously.

[Prime32]

Shkle also bears a strong resemblance to one of the protagonists of the most recent full Mobile Suit Gundam series. Hair/theme color, long-range blasty person on a team, complete lack of discernable gender...I pointed it out first. :smallannoyed: Also, similar superiority complex (replace "Veda" with "magic") and freaks out when (s)he loses the team sniper, flirting with the dark side shortly after. While fighting a villain (s)he uses hax!power from an external source only to have it taken away for most of the series by the Big Bad.

...and it's why hanzo's post made me lol.

V will be a standard Romi Paku role.
http://img2.ak.crunchyroll.com/i/spire4/de3817d0f95fa17044f4e9a46536e0ac1232767601_full.jp g
Is Regene Regetta Zz'dtri then? If Belkar is Hallelujah then Marie is clearly Mr. Scruffy.

[LurkerInPlayground]

There's this absolutely insane thing that people can do.

Where you put your pictures inside of a set of spoiler tags.

It makes my reading experience so seamless.

[kamikasei]

personal note: I like some things about Japan. I just think people who believe anything and everything would be improved by "+anime" ruin it for the rest of us. :smallannoyed:

If I see such a person about, I'll let you know.

[Argeus]

As I thought... this is a VERY polarizing topic. But then again...


I guess you're not allowed to like anything Japanese unless you consider everything about Japan to be better than anything else from anywhere else ever (and are highly obnoxious about proclaiming this at every opportunity). Who knew? (As it happens: not most people I know who do enjoy various things from Japan.)

Quoted for truth. As another example everyone can relate to: The fact that we likes DnD doesn't necessarily mean that everything is better with spell slots and d20 and we proclaim this at every opportunity. No.

[Lord of Rapture]

Though I do think bosssmiley is overreacting, I do have one thing to say...

If the stick figure art is not kept, I will be a very unhappy man. :smallmad:

[Tengu_temp]

Though I do think bosssmiley is overreacting, I do have one thing to say...

If the stick figure art is not kept, I will be a very unhappy man. :smallmad:

Well, someone already suggested to have CLAMP design the characters...

[Lord of Rapture]

Well, someone already suggested to have CLAMP design the characters...


Clearly, the character redesigns would be handled by CLAMP.

GOODNIGHT EVERYBODY

:smallfurious:

There will be no one to hear you scream, Seraph.

*does a Spy*

[Vic_Sage]

If the stick figures go I will be a very happy man. The art as is is terrible and lazy. There I said it.

[Innis Cabal]

Well, someone already suggested to have CLAMP design the characters...

Ziiiiiiiiiiiiiiing.

[TengYt]

If the stick figures go I will be a very happy man. The art as is is terrible and lazy. There I said it.

:smallfurious::smallmad::smallmad::smallannoyed::s mallmad::smallfurious:

[Oslecamo]

Well, someone already suggested to have CLAMP design the characters...

What scares me is that CLAMP would probably acept the project. If they were given free reign on what to do.

I don't think any of us would survive the resulting madness.

I'll tonight have nightmares with what they would've done with the gender bending arc.

And all the characters would be bi. Resulting in a extremely complex maze of relationships. And Roy would round-house kick in all batles. And her girlfriend...MY EYES! THEY BURN!

On a more serious note, CLAMP may be infamous for it's spagheti style, BUT it will rather imolate themselves than not giving their characters full wardrobes of exotic clothes. We would get the Oots wearing diferent fancy stuff every other episode.

[AstralFire]

If the stick figures go I will be a very happy man. The art as is is terrible and lazy. There I said it.

...No, it's not. I assumed the same when people told me about it, but it's not. Lazy is definitely off-base; take the newest strip:


There's a different tone for the block around each number on the price sign, emphasizing the resemblance to real-world gas station signs.
Small scrub, despite being in the desert.
Multiple tones and shapes of sand dunes in the distance.
Effective use and differentiation of camera angles and distance.
Every character looks significantly different from every other within the bounds of the art style.


Order of the Stick is not, visually, a masterpiece work of art. However, it is definitely put together with care - speaking as someone who used this method to make comic strips for class back in High School - and makes effective use of its style rather than fighting against it. Point 5 is particularly notable when compared against Megatokyo, for example - the graphical art there is high quality (if sketchy), particularly the backgrounds (reflecting the artist's architectural training) - however, up to the point where I quit reading it, the art proved nearly incapable of providing significant differentiation between many characters in an easily identifiable way.

Perhaps most importantly, OotS doesn't fight with its art style - its writing style is a complementary match for the often comically stylized, yet very expressive and detailed art. It is not an art style that works with everything - or many things. It does, however, work for Mister Burlew.

[readsaboutd&d]

(how do you put the originally posted by x thingy)They all ready sort of do that. Only instead of "Sneak Attack!" it'd be "Sneeaak AaatttAAAAAAAAAAAACK!"
Not only that but also like "Paaaaaawur (half second pause) a-taaaaack!!!!!!!

Also, in the beginning, their would be power measurement but by episode 5 the opponents bab is over 120. Then by episode 9 (or longer if its one of those >90 episode series), they ar fighting 200 of them. And they will all be flying (not that some of those parts are so different from d&d).

[Vic_Sage]

...No, it's not. I assumed the same when people told me about it, but it's not. Lazy is definitely off-base; take the newest strip:


There's a different tone for the block around each number on the price sign, emphasizing the resemblance to real-world gas station signs.
Small scrub, despite being in the desert.
Multiple tones and shapes of sand dunes in the distance.
Effective use and differentiation of camera angles and distance.
Every character looks significantly different from every other within the bounds of the art style.


Order of the Stick is not, visually, a masterpiece work of art. However, it is definitely put together with care - speaking as someone who used this method to make comic strips for class back in High School - and makes effective use of its style rather than fighting against it. Point 5 is particularly notable when compared against Megatokyo, for example - the graphical art there is high quality (if sketchy), particularly the backgrounds (reflecting the artist's architectural training) - however, up to the point where I quit reading it, the art proved nearly incapable of providing significant differentiation between many characters in an easily identifiable way.

Perhaps most importantly, OotS doesn't fight with its art style - its writing style is a complementary match for the often comically stylized, yet very expressive and detailed art. It is not an art style that works with everything - or many things. It does, however, work for Mister Burlew.
Fine I have to admit saying it was lazy was wrong *I do have to admit it's not* but I still think it's crap.

[AstralFire]

...You know, OotS would hopefully be Seinen and not Shonen. And DBZ isn't all of Shonen, either.

Speaking as someone who really doesn't like most anime either, to be honest.

[LurkerInPlayground]

OotS has passable art. It's not ostensibly supposed to be good. "Good" would involve hand-drawn stick figures with some stylization. I do recall liking Rich's crayon sketches a tad better than digital template art.

As it is, there is no denying that OotS is a template comic. That ranks it pretty low as far as "art" goes. Merely being time-consuming doesn't make it good.

Likewise, that you did it once for a project doesn't really convince me of the fact that it's time-consuming. Good artists simply draw both better *and* faster. What would take you a long time to put together would be laughably easy to a practiced artist.

However, Rich isn't an obnoxious prima donna webcomic artist, so he gets a huge pass.

[AstralFire]

My point is that it's time-consuming (representing effort - the 'lazy' part is what sent me into a tizzy) and does what it does, within the constaints of the style and using it to its fullest, as well as it can. Some things work better with minimalist design than heavier design.

[LurkerInPlayground]

My point is that it's time-consuming (representing effort - the 'lazy' part is what sent me into a tizzy) and does what it does, within the constaints of the style and using it to its fullest, as well as it can. Some things work better with minimalist design than heavier design.
That's roughly where my objection lies.

Rich's characters in OotS just don't convey their personalities visually. They're stiff and static. They all have formulaic poses and facial expressions based on a template. Being stick figures doesn't prevent him from doing more with it. It doesn't even contain the least whiff of visual caricature the way cartoons would. It just isn't dynamic.

There's a difference between "minimalistic" and "generic."

[Lord of Rapture]

True, but in this case, I don't see how the art limits the character's personality being conveyed in any way.

[Klose_the_Sith]

Why? I knew there was going to be a comment like this and I have to ask why it would be bad if done by a Anime studio?

Anime to it's haters is characterised by being simultaneously impenetrable and oversimplified. I love OOTS and I would hate to see it being butchered by a bunch of lazy animators.

[WitchSlayer]

It would probably be horrible or have to be completely remade.
I just don't see it translating well.

[Oslecamo]

The 1st batle between Roy and Xykon would last a dozen episodes, culminating with Roy's sword being broken somewhere between the midle, then Roy using some trick to get near Xykon and grapple the hell out of him, making a lenghty explanation of how the lich lost because he hadn't enough fighting spirit.

[Tengu_temp]

Anime to it's haters is characterised by being simultaneously impenetrable and oversimplified. I love OOTS and I would hate to see it being butchered by a bunch of lazy animators.

You seem to assume that haters of anything have an actually valid stance on it.

[doliest]

If someone decides it's a harem anime for elan, I will be angry.

[Tengu_temp]

But Elan already has a harem:

Haley, the canon option.
Therkla, the unlucky and tragic option.
The Azure City Girl, the crack pairing option.
Roy, the gay option.
Sabine, the FoeYay option.
Nale, the FoeYay, HoYay twincest option (fangirls' favorite).

And that's just from the top of my head. There's probably many more.

[Smight]

The 1st batle between Roy and Xykon would last a dozen episodes, culminating with Roy's sword being broken somewhere between the midle, then Roy using some trick to get near Xykon and grapple the hell out of him, making a lenghty explanation of how the lich lost because he hadn't enough fighting spirit.

you forgot flashbacks, they would probably show entire "On the Origin of PCs"
between breaking of the sword and grapple.

[Oslecamo]

Ah, how could I forgot that! Yes of course we'll need an extra dozen episodes just of flashback.


But Elan already has a harem:

Haley, the canon option.
Therkla, the unlucky and tragic option.
The Azure City Girl, the crack pairing option.
Roy, the gay option.
Sabine, the FoeYay option.
Nale, the FoeYay, HoYay twincest option (fangirls' favorite).

And that's just from the top of my head. There's probably many more.

Eerr, doesn't an harem imply that the girls/boys aren't trying to tear each other's throats?:smalltongue:

Besides, by those standards, everybody but Durkon has an harem!

On the other hand, if it was CLAMP doing the animation...:smalleek:

[doliest]

But Elan already has a harem:

Haley, the canon option.
Therkla, the unlucky and tragic option.
The Azure City Girl, the crack pairing option.
Roy, the gay option.
Sabine, the FoeYay option.
Nale, the FoeYay, HoYay twincest option (fangirls' favorite).

And that's just from the top of my head. There's probably many more.

Actually only three of those are currently canon and the Azure city one IS crack so we're really only left with two girls and one of them was never treated as more than an unrequited crush. That's less harem and more Kenshin.

[Tengu_temp]

Eerr, doesn't an harem imply that the girls/boys aren't trying to tear each other's throats?:smalltongue:


Never seen anything by Rumiko Takahashi, have you? :smallamused:
(I actually haven't either. But that's beyond the point.)

[Klose_the_Sith]

You seem to assume that haters of anything have an actually valid stance on it.

Without criticisms no medium can grow. If Anime looks at it's detractors then 5 years from now it might achieve a semblance of plot.

[Tengu_temp]

Without criticisms no medium can grow. If Anime looks at it's detractors then 5 years from now it might achieve a semblance of plot.

There is a difference between a critic and a hater. A critic provides constructive criticism and is actually familiar with the stuff he is criticizing, a hater simply says "I don't like it, it sucks" and often has no idea what is he talking about.

By the way, may I ask what anime shows have you seen? Because there's a lot of them that have high quality, and fluid animation, and many are driven by great, sensible plots.

[Lord of Rapture]

Unfortunately, the good ones are drowned out by bad ones that fall right into the many annoying cliches haters knock anime for.

Sure, there are good anime out there, but you can't take the cream of the crop as a representation of the whole.

[Tengu_temp]

Isn't that the case with everything, though? Sturgeon's Law exists for a reason.

Not to mention that after several years, the good shows remain popular, while most of the crappy ones fall into obscurity.

[Lord of Rapture]

Yes, but it's not like the good ones don't share some flaws of the entire medium, at least. And popularity has nothing to do with quality. Legend of Galactic Heroes is totally awesome, but everyone forgot about it by now, and somehow Dragonball still gets a new series lately.

[Nameless]

What if OotS goes anime?

Then there would be much yuri.

Yes.

[Prime32]

Yes, but it's not like the good ones don't share some flaws of the entire medium, at least. And popularity has nothing to do with quality. Legend of Galactic Heroes is totally awesome, but everyone forgot about it by now, and somehow Dragonball still gets a new series lately.Dragonball Kai is a remastered and re-edited version of Z. I'm not sure if I'd call it a "new series".

[Tengu_temp]

Yes, but it's not like the good ones don't share some flaws of the entire medium, at least. And popularity has nothing to do with quality. Legend of Galactic Heroes is totally awesome, but everyone forgot about it by now, and somehow Dragonball still gets a new series lately.

Just what exactly are the flaws of the entire anime medium? I expect very little overlap between them and between things most anti-anime people are complaining about.

Dragonball is still popular because it's one of the classics that built modern shonen. Plus, honestly, it's not that bad - more So Bad It's Good than So Bad It's Horrible, and you can enjoy it unironically if you're in the demographics it's marketted towards. LoGH was never popular due to 1. being an OVA longer than most TV series and 2. belonging to a rather niche (for anime) genre.

But man, we got sidetracked. Let's return to joking about various aspects of the OotS anime.

[Kato]

Er... things the OOTS anime would have...
Haley constantly dressed in Nami/Yoko style.
Epic hour long scenes of Belkar cutting goblins into pieces.
Massive spectacular light effects whenever a spell is cast (also lots and lots of spells)
Finally a picture of how Nale and Elan look!
Spectacular fight scenes which turn two comics into twenty episodes.
Norio Wakomoto (pretty please) voice acting either Belkar, Xykon or at least Shojo. (I'd love to hear him shout 'I'm a sexy, shoeless god of war!')

[Rogue 7]

Actually only three of those are currently canon and the Azure city one IS crack so we're really only left with two girls and one of them was never treated as more than an unrequited crush. That's less harem and more Kenshin.

Were we reading the same Rurouni Kenshin?


because neither Tomoe nor Kaoru was unrequited, Tomoe just had the bad luck of being corpsified. Unless you're talking Megumi...

[Prime32]

I was under the impression that a harem required all the girls to be around at the same time. And, y'know, alive. (well, not buried at least)

[tonberrian]

I was under the impression that a harem required all the girls to be around at the same time. And, y'know, alive. (well, not buried at least)

Animate. That's a good word. Covers the living, undead, cosmic horrors...

Well, I guess that it doesn't cover beings in states similar to a human's coma. Maybe "would not break verisimilitude if were to become animate" would be a better descriptive phrase - but that's very unwieldly.

[dsmiles]

Hate to interrupt.
I can't see OotS going anime. It may just signal that the apocalypse is upon us. Too many anime geeks wouldn't get it, and too many gaming geeks wouldn't watch it. That leaves only the small crossover group. Not very marketable, much like the "Dungeons and Dragons" cartoon from the early 80s.

[Argeus]

It's a hypothesis, pal, hy-po-the-sis! Let's just assume that somehow someone sufficiently insane and wealthy hand out enough dough to both Rich and CLAMP/Gainax/KeyAni and have them work together. That is the base assumption of this discussion.

But yeah... Rich + CLAMP = Order of the Stick meets Order of the Noodle People. I'd be darned if Elan doesn't go Syaoran and Nale doesn't go Suzaku Lolorugi.

Which makes Haley a stand-in for Sakura...

Wait, what?

[Oslecamo]

I'd be darned if Elan doesn't go Syaoran and Nale doesn't go Suzaku Lolorugi.



Eeerr, just out of curiosity, why do you choose Elan from all of the members of the Oots to be Syaoran? This is, one is one show off who barely can do anything, the other is a serious kick-ass machine!

Personaly, Roy would fit that role much better, and he even has a magical girlfriend who believes in the power of friendship and love above everything and sees the world with pink glasses.

[Argeus]

Hair color, mate. Simple as that.

[Innis Cabal]

Even then that dosn't work. Syorane isn't blond.

[Nerd-o-rama]

Norio Wakomoto (pretty please) voice acting either Belkar, Xykon or at least Shojo. (I'd love to hear him shout 'I'm a sexy, shoeless god of war!')

Norio Wakamoto as Xykon must happen.

[Oslecamo]

Hair color, mate. Simple as that.

Like Innis pointed out, not even that. Syaoran is chestnut, Elan is blonde.

[Argeus]

^^ My bad then (Never watched the anime).

Norio Wakamoto as Xykon: We'll see "WHO STOLE MY KILL?!?!" at the sheer epicness of "ALL HAIL BRITANNIA!!!"

[Oslecamo]

^^ My bad then (Never watched the anime).

Well, even the manga has coloured pages here and there.



Norio Wakamoto as Xykon: We'll see "WHO STOLE MY KILL?!?!" at the sheer epicness of "ALL HAIL BRITANNIA!!!"

Now this I fully suport!:smallbiggrin:

[doliest]

Were we reading the same Rurouni Kenshin?


because neither Tomoe nor Kaoru was unrequited, Tomoe just had the bad luck of being corpsified. Unless you're talking Megumi...

I was talking about Kaoru and Megumi; Tomoe was dead and therefore not really countable outside of certain fetish-y fanfiction.

[Klose_the_Sith]

There is a difference between a critic and a hater. A critic provides constructive criticism and is actually familiar with the stuff he is criticizing, a hater simply says "I don't like it, it sucks" and often has no idea what is he talking about.

Familiar = vague

Many valid critics are largely unfamiliar with the genre, it is in fact important to consider an outsiders perspective as well - if you only appeal to the diehards then your fanbase won't grow, will it?


By the way, may I ask what anime shows have you seen? Because there's a lot of them that have high quality, and fluid animation, and many are driven by great, sensible plots.

Fluid animation doesn't change the fact that the style itself is lazy. Yea, just like OOTS Anime is stylised :smalltongue:

Seriously though, I've seen a couple of mech ones, some of the weird school ones but I couldn't tell you the names to save my life. It is in fact, more then likely that I've seen terrible ones and have a terrible opinion of the genre.

Educate me? :smallsmile:

(Although I will confess to liking one Anime - Dokuro Chan is ****ing awesome :smallbiggrin:)

[LurkerInPlayground]

Just what exactly are the flaws of the entire anime medium? I expect very little overlap between them and between things most anti-anime people are complaining about.
Wrong question.

The correct question is:
What can we do to best utilize the medium of cartoons (i.e. animation)?

Let's be honest, that's what anime is. They're cartoons. Insisting that there's unifying style other than some arbitrary custom is precisely what limits the creativity in the "medium."

In any case, the word "haters" is just a rhetorically-charged buzz word. You can hate something with a passion and still raise valid points. You can still hate something and still say things about it that are true.

[Eldan]

Educate me? :smallsmile:


Generally, just about everyone tends to like Cowboy Bebop. Bounty hunters in space. I guess one of the most accessible animes.

[Prime32]

Death Note is also a common entry point, though I prefer the manga.

Slayers is old, but it's a good bet. As was mentioned, it's probably the closest thing to an OotS anime already out there (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QdtEXexKns). :smalltongue: (the original novels are even closer to D&D)

[Oslecamo]

Let's be honest, that's what anime is. They're cartoons. Insisting that there's unifying style other than some arbitrary custom is precisely what limits the creativity in the "medium."


Excuse, me but anime and cartoons are both diferent enough animations to warrant diferent names. They're both animations, but saying that they're the same is more or less like saying that cubism and realism art schools are exactly the same. And if you insist that there's lack of creativity in anime, then I would like to know what you're smoking so I can stay the hell away from it.

Heck, I remember that when they tried to release the original powerpuff girls in Japan, it was a flop, untill they hired a bunch of japanese artists and turned the whole cartoon into an anime.

[Prime32]

Heck, I remember that when they tried to release the original powerpuff girls in Japan, it was a flop, untill they hired a bunch of japanese artists and turned the whole cartoon into an anime.It's not like the art is the only thing they changed though. They changed the premise quite a bit, including turning them into magical girls with secret identities.

[Tengu_temp]

Familiar = vague

Many valid critics are largely unfamiliar with the genre, it is in fact important to consider an outsiders perspective as well - if you only appeal to the diehards then your fanbase won't grow, will it?

If someone is not familiar with the thing he is criticizing then he's not giving constructive criticism, but pulling arguments out of his arse. Being a fan and being familiar is not the same thing - what I'm saying is that if someone wants to criticize a show, then they have to actually watch this show. And if they want to criticize a whole medium? They better start getting familiar with at the very least the essential examples of fiction that use this medium. I've never met any anime haters who did that - most of them are only familiar with Pokemon, Sailor Moon, and Dragonbleachuto Z.



Fluid animation doesn't change the fact that the style itself is lazy. Yea, just like OOTS Anime is stylised :smalltongue:

Are you trying to say that western cartoons, in comparison, don't have a lazy style? Or are you comparing anime to western comic books?


Seriously though, I've seen a couple of mech ones, some of the weird school ones but I couldn't tell you the names to save my life. It is in fact, more then likely that I've seen terrible ones and have a terrible opinion of the genre.

Educate me? :smallsmile:

(Although I will confess to liking one Anime - Dokuro Chan is ****ing awesome :smallbiggrin:)

As Eldan suggested, Cowboy Bebop. Other suggestions depend on which genres you like and which you don't.

[Trixie]

Popular enough, judging from Slayers.

Wizardry. Record of Lodoss War. Tales/Final/Breath/etc. series. About a million others.

Really, how can people wonder if anime fan in Japan will get what the HPs are? Do you have any idea how many millions of jRPGs are sold each year? :smallsigh:

[Nerd-o-rama]

Even Final Fantasy (second oldest and second most popular video game RPG franchise in Japan) was originally very loosely based on D&D, although it's drifted significantly in both feel and rules since then, there are still recognizable similarities.

[AstralFire]

Excuse, me but anime and cartoons are both diferent enough animations to warrant diferent names. They're both animations, but saying that they're the same is more or less like saying that cubism and realism art schools are exactly the same. And if you insist that there's lack of creativity in anime, then I would like to know what you're smoking so I can stay the hell away from it.

Heck, I remember that when they tried to release the original powerpuff girls in Japan, it was a flop, untill they hired a bunch of japanese artists and turned the whole cartoon into an anime.

Cubism and realism are schools of art.

Anime is a regional term, and has some intraconnection because it is formed from a collective cultural background, but it is not on the level of two major styles of painting which are deliberately done that way.

[Klose_the_Sith]

If someone is not familiar with the thing he is criticizing then he's not giving constructive criticism, but pulling arguments out of his arse. Being a fan and being familiar is not the same thing - what I'm saying is that if someone wants to criticize a show, then they have to actually watch this show. And if they want to criticize a whole medium? They better start getting familiar with at the very least the essential examples of fiction that use this medium. I've never met any anime haters who did that - most of them are only familiar with Pokemon, Sailor Moon, and Dragonbleachuto Z.

Then you can't really have known many haters, can you? Plenty of them know exactly what they're doing. While I agree with you that those are the fundamentals that one should be at least aware of before leaping into conclusions judgement and such the fact remains that I'm yet to know someone who would ignore those rules.

If you have encountered such people badmouthing anime under such circumstances then, heck, *I'll* smite them. No style really deserves to be hated under such circumstances ... except mainstream pop/rap/rnb :smallwink:


Are you trying to say that western cartoons, in comparison, don't have a lazy style? Or are you comparing anime to western comic books?

Western Cartoons aren't as lazy, tbh. They still aren't the most exhaustive style but compared to Anime they might as well be.


As Eldan suggested, Cowboy Bebop. Other suggestions depend on which genres you like and which you don't.

Please tell me you have better suggestions then that : /

[13_CBS]

To the credit of anime studios, I've heard that most of them get a very low budget, particularly the animators of the Big (Shounen) Three--Bleach, One Piece, and Naruto.

[kamikasei]

Norio Wakamoto as Xykon must happen.

I don't know, George Nakata needs a look in too...

[Rogue 7]

Western Cartoons aren't as lazy, tbh. They still aren't the most exhaustive style but compared to Anime they might as well be.

Both western animation and anime vary in terms of how detailed and dedicated the art is. You look at something like Scooby-Doo and compare it to anime of the same sort (mass-produced, for kids, not a huge thing) and you'll probably find a lot of similarities.



Please tell me you have better suggestions then that : /

As they said, what do you like? Cowboy Bebop is a good one to recommend because it's got a broad appeal to it and doesn't rely on too many specific tastes- I like to think of it as basically Anime's Firefly. By your avatar, you seem to be a Halo fan. So military sci-fi? Gundam would most likely be the standard. There's also my personal recommendation of Full Metal Panic, which incorporates a bit of fish-out-of-water schooltime antics, but for the most part is a fairly straight-up serious story about a mercenary and the organization he works for, along with good giant robots.

[kutsinta]

Hard to imagine, Sounds revolutionary...