opinion poll feat choice for factotum.

[mabriss lethe]

Here we go. I'm playing a human factotum 11 and I'm trying to figure which will net me the most bang for my buck. My current feat lineup is Font of Inspiration X3, Knowledge devotion, and Martial Study (Ironheart) (we aren't allowed any flaws, so don't ask.) I want to keep martial study because it lets me qualify for Ironheart Surge while wearing the Ironheart Vest. My question then:

Should I ditch Knowledge devotion for another font of inspiration? (my current int mod is, of course, high enough to allow it.) or should I keep Know Dev for both higher normal hit and damage rolls and as a fallback option for when I run out of inspiration?

[Draz74]

Font of Inspiration is boring (and potentially broken). I always vote against it. :smallsmile:

[Godskook]

That depends largely on your character. What are you trying to do with this guy?

[Doc Roc]

I contest that Font of Inspiration is fun, and potentially useful!
Knowledge devotion is smooth, slightly bitter, and delectable. Like good chocolate.

[mabriss lethe]

I'm trying to fill in as many party gaps as possible.

We have a druid who doesn't really know how how to play, two fighters, a ranger and a mystic theurge who sometimes has bouts of competence and sometimes forgets that she has more spells than hit points. You'd think all the bases except trap springer/skill monkey were covered... But when I ran him through a trial run last session (we're allowed a week to make any changes or to scrap the character for something else.) I was the only one thinking to do things like cast buffs/ haste for the party.

I'm beginning to think that my job in the group is to teach the casters what they can actually do with their spell lists while being the trapmonkey/buff caster.

[SurlySeraph]

Your party already has plenty of melee capacity, so Knowledge Devotion is unnecessary. Go with another FoI for more skilled-ness.

[Draz74]

Or take Able Learner so you can go Chameleon. That way you really can teach the casters what they should be casting, and you can also switch your floating feat to either Knowledge Devotion or Font of Inspiration whenever you want. :smallbiggrin:

[mabriss lethe]

Or take Able Learner so you can go Chameleon. That way you really can teach the casters what they should be casting, and you can also switch your floating feat to either Knowledge Devotion or Font of Inspiration whenever you want. :smallbiggrin:

My last character in the game was a Chameleon. Thought I'd try something different. He met his demise by being on the wrong end of a failed fort save vs a death effect (and yes, he spent most of *his* time tutoring the spellcasters.) I'm being nice to my DM and not playing a full caster in his game until he gets a better understanding of it.

[Eloel]

Be Human, get 2 Flaws, and by level11, you have 2+3+4+5+6+7+8 = 35 extra Inspiration Points. Learn how often IPs can be used (they refresh every encounter), use 40-ish standard actions at round1 of every battle.

Result? WIN!

[Myrmex]

Be Human, get 2 Flaws, and by level11, you have 2+3+4+5+6+7+8 = 35 extra Inspiration Points. Learn how often IPs can be used (they refresh every encounter), use 40-ish standard actions at round1 of every battle.

Result? WIN!

35 inspiration points gets you 11 standard actions.
I also recommend you reread the OP. It specifically says no flaws.

[sofawall]

Be Human, get 2 Flaws, and by level11, you have 2+3+4+5+6+7+8 = 35 extra Inspiration Points. Learn how often IPs can be used (they refresh every encounter), use 40-ish standard actions at round1 of every battle.

Result? WIN!

I forget how many I ended up with as a level 8 Factotum/8 Iaijutsu Master/4 Fighter. 36? Something like that?

[Thurbane]

Be Human, get 2 Flaws, and by level11, you have 2+3+4+5+6+7+8 = 35 extra Inspiration Points. Learn how often IPs can be used (they refresh every encounter), use 40-ish standard actions at round1 of every battle.

Result? WIN!

Here we go. I'm playing a human factotum 11 and I'm trying to figure which will net me the most bang for my buck. My current feat lineup is Font of Inspiration X3, Knowledge devotion, and Martial Study (Ironheart) (we aren't allowed any flaws, so don't ask.) I want to keep martial study because it lets me qualify for Ironheart Surge while wearing the Ironheart Vest. My question then:

Should I ditch Knowledge devotion for another font of inspiration? (my current int mod is, of course, high enough to allow it.) or should I keep Know Dev for both higher normal hit and damage rolls and as a fallback option for when I run out of inspiration?
I sense a problem...

[Draz74]

My last character in the game was a Chameleon. Thought I'd try something different. He met his demise by being on the wrong end of a failed fort save vs a death effect (and yes, he spent most of *his* time tutoring the spellcasters.) I'm being nice to my DM and not playing a full caster in his game until he gets a better understanding of it.

Dang. Well, if you wanted a complete contrast to a Chameleon, Factotum isn't the best choice for that. :smallsmile:

Regardless, I still say take other feats rather than FoI. And Knowledge Devotion is probably right at the top of that list.

Another very fun feat, if it's allowed, is Keen Intellect from Oriental Adventures.

[Lycanthromancer]

Take Hidden Talent, pick some fun power that works at ML 1 (like expansion for a melee character, compression for a hide-monkey, or psionic minor creation for utility), then a few Psionic Talent feats and some interesting psionic feats like Up the Walls?

PrCing into elocator would make you quite awesome, especially if you used it advance a fast-scaling manifesting class (like war mind).

[DragoonWraith]

If you can convince your DM that a War Mind should have Int-based Manifesting (it's got Mind the class's name for chrissakes!), you'd be pretty golden. That's a really good idea, I think.

[mabriss lethe]

My factotum is now finished and officially in play.

I kept my original layout for the character. (and finally named him "Jack Handy) It still gives him a respectable inspiration pool (12 points.) and great synergy between it all.

I can blow a point of inspiration for a continuous bonus throughout the fight should I choose to attack by boosting my various knowledge checks for Knowledge devotion. I can boost attack and damage rolls (through knowledge devotion and inspiration) to make better use of my Martial Study feat (Wall of blades) and my initiator items (novice ironheart vest w/ Ironheart surge and stone dragon belt with Bonecrusher.)

My chosen spell repertoire has been broken down into 1 battlefield control spell(Evards Black Tentacles usually), 1 buff (haste) 1 AoE blast spell (fireball or lightning bolt) and one rotating utility or buff spell of some other sort (fly/invisibility/whatever.) If we weren't knee deep in the undead I'd swap out one of them for Shivering Touch....but *shrugs*

I'm a bit torn. I've got no problem taking him all the way to 20 as a factotum....but part of me wants to dip into an initiator class for more fun (warblade has nice Int synergy, I know, but a swordsage would give him an absurdly wide range of options.)

[Draz74]

If you can convince your DM that a War Mind should have Int-based Manifesting (it's got Mind the class's name for chrissakes!), you'd be pretty golden. That's a really good idea, I think.

Hmmm. Factotum 8 / War Mind 5 / Elocator 7. With a variant Factotum that gains maneuvers instead of spells from its Dilettante ability, and a variant War Mind that's based on INT. I like it; I might have to try it sometime.


I can blow a point of inspiration for a continuous bonus throughout the fight should I choose to attack by boosting my various knowledge checks for Knowledge devotion. I can boost attack and damage rolls (through knowledge devotion and inspiration) to make better use of my Martial Study feat (Wall of blades) and my initiator items (novice ironheart vest w/ Ironheart surge and stone dragon belt with Bonecrusher.)
Nice. Glad you stuck with Knowledge Devotion. I have to say I like Mountain Hammer better than Bonecrusher, unless maybe if you're wielding a Keen Falchion or somesuch. Even then ... the out-of-combat utility of Mountain Hammer is staggering.

Also, and I can't believe I forgot to mention this before -- your favorite spell to use with Arcane Dilettante is Heroics. Can you say "remedy for being feat-starved"? I thought you could. Works great with Martial Study and Martial Stance, among other options.

Other Novice ToB items that may be worth looking at:


Desert Wind Cloak (Burning Brand): everyone likes Reach.
Devoted Spirit Amulet (Shield Block): if you use a shield.
Devoted Spirit Amulet (Foehammer): similar to the Mountain Hammer option.
Ring of the Diamond Mind (Mind over Body): You have to wait until Level 10 to use this, but covering your weak save with a Concentration check 1/encounter is definitely significant if you have a good Concentration skill. You're more of a melee Factotum, so you may not. Even then, you could consider taking 1 rank of Concentration and spending 3000 gp, so at least you'll pass one key Fort save per day.
Crown of the White Raven (White Raven Tactics): an obvious choice if you can find a way to work around the prerequisite. In a melee-heavy party, just spending a feat on Martial Stance (Leading the Charge) might actually be worth it when you consider that it opens up this option.



I'm a bit torn. I've got no problem taking him all the way to 20 as a factotum....but part of me wants to dip into an initiator class for more fun (warblade has nice Int synergy, I know, but a swordsage would give him an absurdly wide range of options.)

Yes, I understand the temptation. :smallsmile:

Meh, a Warblade dip (i.e. not very many levels) doesn't have much INT synergy anyway, especially when you already have a good Reflex save. I'd worry more about the way Swordsage loses a point of BAB ... can you play with Fractional BAB/Saves?

Note that Factotums get their capstone at 19, not 20. :smallamused: Though 20 is still far from being a dead level.

[mabriss lethe]

It'll be a while before I get any more initiator items, I think. Most of the appropriate slots are taken up by some nasties that'll help keep me alive for longer if things go south, and attribute boost items, since it's a relatively low pointbuy game (gloves of dex, headband of intellect,cloak of resistance, spellsink scarab, and third eye: dampening are some of the highlights.)

My saves are all solid, though I did think about the ring of diamond mind..rather hard. I chose bonecrusher for the belt over mountain hammer mostly because I can overcome DR using Cunning Breach and rolling tons of d6s is just visceral fun. can roll up to 3d6 (weapon)+1d6acid(augment crystal)+1d4 force with his weapon.

[Sinfire Titan]

3-5 instances of FoI, no more required. The people telling you to spam it as much as possible are wrong. The class doesn't need 35 IP, only around 17-20 or so.

The rest should go towards your primary focus. If you plan on going into melee a lot, you should take Improved Trip and such. If you plan on being a mini-Caster, invest in the Item Crafting feats more than anything. If you go Skill Monkey, focus on feats that augment your skill checks (not the +2/+2 or Skill Focus, but things that give you more options with skills or dramatically boost your checks, like Shape Soulmeld and Track).

[mabriss lethe]

3-5 instances of FoI, no more required. The people telling you to spam it as much as possible are wrong. The class doesn't need 35 IP, only around 17-20 or so.

The rest should go towards your primary focus. If you plan on going into melee a lot, you should take Improved Trip and such. If you plan on being a mini-Caster, invest in the Item Crafting feats more than anything. If you go Skill Monkey, focus on feats that augment your skill checks (not the +2/+2 or Skill Focus, but things that give you more options with skills or dramatically boost your checks, like Shape Soulmeld and Track).

I'd pretty much come to the same realization. I kept a rather careful track of the inspiration I spent, and the most I dumped in a CR appropriate encounter was 9. 1 to boost my knowledge check for Knowledge devotion, 1 to boost the damage the only time I actually struck. 2 for spells, 3 for a cunning surge, 1 to boost my attack roll while using Wall of Blades and 1 to boost a save.

[Milskidasith]

Yeah, you don't need to spam FoI unless you are at level 14 (I think) when you get extra standard actions. And even then, that's only if you like being broken. Factotum, however, is godmode in gestalt, because, well, extra standard actions with full casting works out nicely. Very nicely.