Soulblade Build Help/Evaluation

[Talbot]

So until about a month ago I hadn't played 3.5 in years as I was super rusty (also, I didn't really play 3.5 nearly as much as I played free-forms/homebrews/variants even then), and I built a Dwarven Soulknife. Currently Level 5. I know it's not optimal, but bear with me.

So, currently, I have Rapid Metabolism and Point Blank Shot as my feats, and no levels in other classes. I originally planned to go Soul Knife 7/Fighter 4/Ilumine Soul 5/ Soulbow 4, but the DM has since told me if I go into that many classes he's gonna slam me with an Exp penalty. I'm not really interested in classes besides those four for this particular character (I'm big on character consistency). Anyways, here's what I was, and am, thinking:

Worth noting is that the campaign has several major villains, but the main one is a necromancer, as is one of the other biggies. Hence the Ilumine character. Also, our party is currently four melee types, no casters/healers/ranged attackers.



Current Feats: Rapid Metabolism and Point Blank Shot (DM may let me retrain since he didn't tell me until I'd planned out my 4-class path that I shouldn't use that many classes).

Planned Advancement:

Retrain: Rapid Metabolism into Combat Expertise (DM said this was fine)
6-Soul Knife (Class: Mind Blade Enhancement, Speed of Thought Feat: Reshape Soulblade: Dwarven Warpike)
7- Fighter (Combat Reflexes)
8- Ilumine Soul (Class: Positive Energy, +1d8 Psychic Strike)
9- Ilumine Soul (Feat: Practiced Soulblade (+1 Enhancement, + 1 Mind Blade), Class: Death Ward, Positive Energy Ray)
10- Fighter (Feat: Cleave)
11- Soul Bow (Feat: Precise Shot, Class: Mind Arrow)
12- Fighter (Feat: Improved Trip)
13- Soul Bow (Class: Enhancement: Lucky)
14- Fighter (Feat: Power Attack)
15- Ilumine Soul (Feat: Mind Cleave, Class: Undead Bane)
16- Soul Bow (+1 Arrow/Blade, Feat: Manyshot)
17- Ilumine Soul (Class: Positive Energy Healing, +1d8 Psych Strike Feat: Great Cleave)
18- Soul Bow (Feat: Close Combat Shot)
19- Ilumine Soul (Positve Energy Flare)
20- Soulknife (+1d8 Psychic Strike)

With that build, I end up with a +5 Mindblade, decent BAB, and auto undead bane on every attack. From range, I pelt baddies with lucky +5 undead bane arrows. Whenever someone tries to close on me, use combat rhttp://www.giantitp.com/forums/images/editor/separator.gifeflexes + the reach of warpike to either attack or trip; with improved trip, I'm much more likely to succeed, and upshot of the mindblade is that if they grab it there's no real downside to me dropping the weapon as I can re-manifest it as a free action. With Improved Trip, if I succeed on tripping them I get to take a whack at them anyways, and when you factor in Pyschic Strike + Mind Cleave + Greater Cleave + High Dex Combat Reflexes + 3 enhancements (say, Keen, Bane, and whatever else I want that day), and all of a sudden I become very hard to get anywhere near in close combat, particularly when I'm fighting Undead. And I can explode once per day to deal 10d6 to all nearby undead.



Now, though, I'm considering these two alternatives:

Soulblade/Fighter/Soulbow:



Retrain: Rapid Metabolism into Combat Expertise
6-Soul Knife (Class: Mind Blade Enhancement, Speed of Thought Feat: Reshape Soulblade: Dwarven Warpike)
7- Fighter (Feat: Combat Reflexes)
8- Fighter (Feat: Improved Trip)
9- Soulbow (Feat: Mind Cleave, Precise Shot)
10- Fighter
11- Fighter (Feat: Manyshot)
12- Soulbow (Feat: Power Attack)
13- Soulbow (Feat: Rapidshot)
14- Soulbow
15- Soulbow (Feat: Greater Manyshot, Practiced Mindblade)
16- Soulbow
17- Soulbow (Feat: Ranged Sunder)
18- Soulbow (Feat: Great Cleave)
19- Soulbow
20- Soulbow (Improved Toughness)

This build, then, works best at range, using a +4 lucky Undeadbane Keen Mind Arrow, and then relying on the trip abilities and such to keep foes from closing. Once they do close, it just switches back to the arrows, since at Soulbow 5 they get close combat shot. Downside is missing out on the healing from Ilumine Soul, and significantly reduced melee/psychic strike damage.



Or

Soulknife/Fighter/Ilumine Soul


Retrain: Rapid Metabolism into Combat Expertise, Point Blank Shot into Combat Reflexes
6-Soul Knife (Class: Mind Blade Enhancement, Speed of Thought Feat: Reshape Soulblade: Dwarven Warpike)
7- Fighter (Feat: Improved Trip)
8- Fighter (Feat: Cleave)
9- Ilumine Soul (Feat: Practiced Mindblade)
10- Soul Knife
11- Soul Knife
12- Soul Knife (Feat: Mind Cleave)
13- Fighter
14- Fighter (Feat: Power Attack)
15- Ilumine Soul (Feat: Improved Toughness)
16- Ilumine Soul
17- Soul Knife
18- Ilumine Soul (Psionic Body)
19- Ilumine Soul
20- Soul Knife

In this case I completely forego the range, but end up with a +5 Undeadbane with 4 other enhancements Mindblade Warpike, and a good deal of bonus HP(and a nifty healing power), as well as 5d8 Positive Energy Psychic Strike that recharge on a kill...and since any undead I hit is going to take 4d6 + 5d8 +7 + Str with loads of opportunity attacks thanks to my reach/combat reflexes/improved trip.



So... which way do you guys think I should go? Any suggestions for how to improve any of the builds?

[RagnaroksChosen]

Well..

Why is he gonna give you exp penalties.
Fighter is a favored class for dwarves... PRCs don't count twords it. Have you asked you gm why is would penilize you on some thing like that?

[Blackfang108]

Well..

Why is he gonna give you exp penalties.
Fighter is a favored class for dwarves... PRCs don't count twords it. Have you asked you gm why is would penilize you on some thing like that?

Seconded. By RAW, there is no XP penalty for what you want to do. (Although I'm not sure what the Fighter is doing in there. Wep Spec.? If you did Soulknife 13, you'd get Knife to the soul, which has some good uses.)

[Zovc]

I'm without my books here at work so no build critique, but I can cite the SRD:


Favored Class: Fighter. A multiclass dwarf’s fighter class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty for multiclassing


Of course, you may have a DM who associates 'complex'--as far as builds are concerned--with 'overpowered.' When I say complex, you're not doing anything crazy, but it MUST be better than Wizard 20 because it's got more classes. It'll be hard to explain to your DM that you're not powergaming if he is the aforementioned type. Nevertheless, according to the rules, you should not have an experience penalty (unless DM is penalising you for being "too powerful").

I will say, however, you should probably take the highest base attack bonus you can with your build. Unfortuntaely even one level of Soulknife prevents you from getting four attacks in a round (+20 BAB). I'm not sure what progression Illume Soul and/or Soulbow have, but consider that when building the character, not just abilities you'll get.

[Blackfang108]

Unfortuntaely even one level of Soulknife prevents you from getting four attacks in a round (+20 BAB).

You only need +16 to get 4 attacks. Check the fighter progression in the SRD.

[Douglas]

Unfortuntaely even one level of Soulknife prevents you from getting four attacks in a round (+20 BAB).
The fourth attack comes at +16 BAB, not +20.

[Foryn Gilnith]

Nevertheless, according to the rules, you should not have an experience penalty (unless DM is penalising you for being "too powerful").

I assume it's a houserule (that I thought for a long time was the proper rule) that multiclassing XP penalties count on prestige classes. So Soulknife 7 gives you a 40% XP penalty from Illumine Soul 5 and Soulbow 4.

[Talbot]

Which book has the rules for taking multiple prestige classes? My DM is pretty respectful of RAW, so I think as long as I can prove that I shouldn't be taking penalties he'll let it go.

Also, any comments/help/suggestions on the build?

[Blackfang108]

Which book has the rules for taking multiple prestige classes? My DM is pretty respectful of RAW, so I think as long as I can prove that I shouldn't be taking penalties he'll let it go.

Also, any comments/help/suggestions on the build?

The DMG.

Also, the SRD:

Taking a prestige class does not incur the experience point penalties normally associated with multiclassing. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/prestigeClasses/prestigeClasses.htm)

EDIT: also, Illumine Soul is a godsend in a Undead heavy campaign. Remember, you get your Psychic Strike damage to all undead, not just nonmindless ones.

[Talbot]

Where in the DMG does it say that? I can't find it. I guess the link is enough, but it'd be better to have hardcopy proof.

[lsfreak]

Where in the DMG does it say that? I can't find it. I guess the link is enough, but it'd be better to have hardcopy proof.

It was accidentally removed from the DMG between 3.0 and 3.5, I believe. I'm pretty sure it's in the errata, but I can't seem to get the errata files to download.

Either way, SRD takes precedence over DMG.

[Talbot]

What does SRD stand for? I've never actually heard of it before. Is it "official"?

[Eldariel]

What does SRD stand for? I've never actually heard of it before. Is it "official"?

System Reference Document (http://www.d20srd.org/) contains the most recent printings of the material legal for public publishing under OGL. I actually use it over DMG/PHB/MM1/XPH/DDG/ELH whenever possible (especially for Deities & Demigods and Epic Level Handbook since both lack 3.5 updates). Oh, and electric databases are easier to search.

[Talbot]

System Reference Document (http://www.d20srd.org/) contains the most recent printings of the material legal for public publishing under OGL. I actually use it over DMG/PHB/MM1/XPH/DDG/ELH whenever possible (especially for Deities & Demigods and Epic Level Handbook since both lack 3.5 updates). Oh, and electric databases are easier to search.

Yeah, but if it isn't official WOTC product I'm note sure my DM will listen to it.

[Eldariel]

Yeah, but if it isn't official WOTC product I'm note sure my DM will listen to it.

It is an official WoTC product (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35), that site just contains the same material in more organized, easier-to-read guise. It's every bit as official as other forms of errata applied by WoTC.

[Person_Man]

I know that DMs are always leary of homebrew material, but you might want to check out my Force Adept (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=92407). It lets you do what you want to do (use a mindblade, be an archer, and have cool but not game breaking things to do) starting at level 1. I've playtested it, and it's power level is about the same as a Psychic Warrior.

[Optimystik]

Yeah, but if it isn't official WOTC product I'm note sure my DM will listen to it.

The SRD is as official as it gets. Don't confuse "free" with "unlicensed."

[Talbot]

Thanks.

Also, can anyone think of a way to get my crit range beyond 19 (keen or improved crit, but they don't stack)?

[Blackfang108]

Thanks.

Also, can anyone think of a way to get my crit range beyond 19 (keen or improved crit, but they don't stack)?

That's literally it. And no, they don't stack. 17-20/x2 is the best you're getting. (Which isn't terrible. Especially coupled with Soulbreaker. ~20% chance to inflict a negative level on each crit. Better than Mindfeeder or Bodyfeeder, IMO.)

THere MAY be an item in the MIC that does this, too, but I'm AFB.

[herrhauptmann]

Thanks.

Also, can anyone think of a way to get my crit range beyond 19 (keen or improved crit, but they don't stack)?

Don't forget that effects which give you autoconfirmation of criticals don't work when you've got something that increases your crit range. (It usually says it under the text for the effect or item)
ex: Blessed weapon (auto confirm on evil creatures) and a keen weapon (double threat range)