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View Full Version : Proto-4E stuff in 3.5...



Aron Times
2009-11-02, 10:43 AM
Here's a list of proto-4E content in 3.5.

As early as Complete Arcane (November 2004), Wizards experimented with at-will spellcasting with the warlock. It is much weaker than CoDzilla and his other tier 1 siblings, but it is widely considered to be a balanced alternative to tier 1 spellcasting, at least according to CharOp.

Reserve feats were printed in Complete Mage, and I'm sure that they were the prototype of 4E's at-will powers. For example, Fiery Burst (3.5) is very similar to Scorching Burst (4E).

There's the Tome of Battle, which set a precedent for 4E martial characters to follow. The martial adepts of the Tome of Battle and the 4E martial power source are capable of superhuman feats that are technically nonmagical. Also, several 4E martial powers make references to the Tome of Battle, like the various White Raven daily powers for the warlord.

And finally, Star Wars Saga Edition, though technically not 3.5, plays like a hybrid of 3.5 and 4E. The most obvious examples are the increased HP at level 1 and the condensed and auto-scaling skill system.

I was wondering if I missed anything. Are there other proto-4E content in 3.5 that I haven't included?

Kylarra
2009-11-02, 10:46 AM
UA has the alternate auto-scaling skill systems too.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/alternativeSkillSystems.htm

Kaiyanwang
2009-11-02, 10:49 AM
High level Shadowcasters, in ToM, have at-wills. I see an analogy with the 4th edition (they have "daily"high level mysteries and at-will low level fundamentals).


UA has the alternate auto-scaling skill systems too.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/alternativeSkillSystems.htm

Yeah. A lot of "ZOMG" things of 4th edition (like the fixed XP monsters, or things you said) are in UA. Maybe the best book of 3.5 relating to the spirit of the edition, IMHO.

Aron Times
2009-11-02, 12:52 PM
Wow. I never noticed that before, and Unearthed Arcana is my favorite book in 3.5. Its awesomeness just went over 9000 for me.

AstralFire
2009-11-02, 12:55 PM
Wow. I never noticed that before, and Unearthed Arcana is my favorite book in 3.5. Its awesomeness just went over 9000 for me.

Turn in your badge.

peacenlove
2009-11-02, 01:48 PM
High level Shadowcasters, in ToM, have at-wills. I see an analogy with the 4th edition (they have "daily"high level mysteries and at-will low level fundamentals).

Yeah. A lot of "ZOMG" things of 4th edition (like the fixed XP monsters, or things you said) are in UA. Maybe the best book of 3.5 relating to the spirit of the edition, IMHO.

They get them too late (They should get them at 1st level) and there is no scaling.
Dragonfire adept follows the steps of the warlock also.
Fixed Xp monsters were also present in the second edition so hardly a new 4th edition trait.
Don't know much though about 4th edition so i will just believe you about UA :smallsmile:

CarpeGuitarrem
2009-11-02, 02:46 PM
Don't forget that in SAGA you had fixed defenses for Fort, Reflex, and Will, instead of saving throws.

Kylarra
2009-11-02, 04:14 PM
Don't forget that in SAGA you had fixed defenses for Fort, Reflex, and Will, instead of saving throws.
Also technically in UA (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/playersRollAllTheDice.htm), although only applied to monsters there.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-02, 04:16 PM
Tome of Magic, perhaps?

Curmudgeon
2009-11-02, 05:58 PM
Skill tricks (Complete Scoundrel) are weak encounter powers.

Thurbane
2009-11-02, 08:08 PM
Would the Factotum's "per encounter" Inspiration antics count?

Kaiyanwang
2009-11-03, 03:02 AM
Well, after a while I relized that the first "encounter power" was.. 3.0 (and 3.5) barbarian rage... :smalltongue:

Irreverent Fool
2009-11-03, 03:46 AM
4th edition uses orcs, which were present in 1e. Also Dungeons.

Oh and Dragons.

obnoxious
sig

Burley
2009-11-03, 07:13 AM
Skill tricks (Complete Scoundrel) are weak encounter powers.

I wouldn't call them "weak encounter powers." They are, however, the basis for Utility powers. Some of them are like dailies. Isn't the Quick Tap or whatever (that opens locks) a 1/day ability.

oxinabox
2009-11-03, 08:26 AM
One of the settings (...farun? FR? idk) had action points.

Chrono22
2009-11-03, 08:28 AM
Many classes applied nonstandard ability scores to their saves (paladin, monk.. several other non-core ones).

Kaiyanwang
2009-11-03, 08:30 AM
One of the settings (...farun? FR? idk) had action points.

Action points were "officially" in Eberron and were in UA too. In Eberron there are feats "action point related", similar to powers with special effects with AP in 4th.

Action points appeared in UA mainly as "feat effect doublers" (example: spell penetrations +2 ---> +4 that round).

Starsinger
2009-11-03, 08:33 AM
Eberron had a definite push towards Rule of Cool compared to the more "boxed in by traditional fantasy ideals" feel of Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms.

Volkov
2009-11-03, 08:36 AM
Hey Greyhawk is awesome. Don't mock it. Or else.........

Oslecamo
2009-11-03, 08:40 AM
Monster Manual V had the first minions. One of the monsters there produces spawns wich have high defenses and evasion but a single HP.

Kaiyanwang
2009-11-03, 08:51 AM
Monster Manual V had the first minions. One of the monsters there produces spawns wich have high defenses and evasion but a single HP.

There is somewhere (MMIV- V) a demon that dies with a single crit. Maybe the most belivable minion mechanic ever, no sarcasm.

Kylarra
2009-11-03, 11:08 AM
There is somewhere (MMIV- V) a demon that dies with a single crit. Maybe the most belivable minion mechanic ever, no sarcasm.Zombies in 4e autodie on crits.

Kaiyanwang
2009-11-03, 11:12 AM
Zombies in 4e autodie on crits.

That's cool.

Sinfire Titan
2009-11-03, 11:12 AM
The negative HP rule in 4E was previewed as a house rule in 3.5 on the main site.

Kaiyanwang
2009-11-03, 11:28 AM
The negative HP rule in 4E was previewed as a house rule in 3.5 on the main site.

IIRC, increasing the negative HP was a suggested houserule in ELH, or in the "less lethal epic" suggested houserule of the ELH web enhancement.

That was a quite good WE.

Eldariel
2009-11-03, 02:29 PM
The negative HP rule in 4E was previewed as a house rule in 3.5 on the main site.

What negative HP rule?