Wargame Suggestions?

[Ent]

A friend and I are looking to get back in to tabletop wargaming (we both played a good deal of 40k, back in 3rd edition I believe). What are some suggestions for games that are more on the skirmish side, preferably not Games Workshop, and not annoyingly complicated with counters, and charts for locating wound locations?

We are more interested in fantasy settings so that we would have extra minis for D&D.

[CarpeGuitarrem]

I've heard that Games Workshop's Lord of the Rings Strategy Battle Game is a skirmish wargame, and it's definitely fantasy. Plus, it's the same people behind WH40K.

[Astrella]

Warmachine & Hordes are good games, though they do use charts (for damage on Warjacks and Warbeast) and counters (for focus/fury and buffs).

[Johnny Blade]

Well...there's Blood Bowl, which isn't really a skirmish game, but close. It's also a very good game, but there aren't that many other purposes for the miniatures you'd get for it - mainly the games of companies that make miniatures more or less intended for Blood Bowl in the first place, like Impact Miniatures' (http://www.impactminiatures.com/) Elfball. Of course, you don't need all too many.


Then there would be Hordes, which fits your description quite well. But, it's getting a new rule set soon, and since it's to be compatible with Warmachine, it will have a new point cost system, which is retarded.
(The units' point costs are very, very low, usually somewhere between 1 and 4, which obviously has quite a few drawbacks and only faster army building on the plus side. I don't play Warmachine myself, though, so I don't know what other changes the new rules could bring. Several simplifications is what I hear and have no trouble believing. :smallannoyed:)


Now, since I may be quitting Hordes as a result - luckily, I don't have many miniatures anyway - I have looked into some other games myself lately, and the two most promising are Hell Dorado (http://www.helldorado.fr/) (there's an English forum on the site - be sure to read up on the game's current state) and Malifaux (http://wyrd-games.net/shop/home.php). Neither take place in classic fantasy settings, though, but they are pretty stylish.


EDIT: Yeah, I was almost sure that would happen. Ninja'd by a few minutes... :smallamused:

[Astrella]

Then there would be Hordes, which fits your description quite well. But, it's getting a new rule set soon, and since it's to be compatible with Warmachine, it will have a new point cost system, which is retarded.
(The units' point costs are very, very low, usually somewhere between 1 and 4, which obviously has quite a few drawbacks and only faster army building on the plus side. I don't play Warmachine myself, though, so I don't know what other changes the new rules could bring. Several simplifications is what I hear and have no trouble believing. :smallannoyed:)

Well, you can check the Warmachine (not hordes, but it should give you an idea of the changes) Mark II rules on the privateer website if you haven't already. I myself, find them to be an improvement over the Mark I rules, and I haven't noticed any simplifications, just some streamlining.

[Johnny Blade]

Yeah, well, I probably wouldn't catch half of the changes. :smallwink: I mean, I have played against Warmachine armies, but that's really not the same as playing the game.
Also, I'm pretty sure that the people I talked with about this meant the units, or rather their rules, are getting simplified, not the basic rules. I don't really know, though, I mainly paraphrase what I was told by Warmachine players I know.

My main problem is the point cost system anyway.
Actually, it's my only problem, since it's the only thing I really know about.

[Astrella]

Well, the Warmachine units haven't undergone any great changes (mostly some rewordings of abilities to make em clearer and a stat point added here and there). So, I'd assume the same for Hordes mkII. (well, weren't the mkII field test rules going to be online this month anyway for Hordes?)

[Johnny Blade]

Yeah, the Field Test starts later this month.

[Ent]

Going to go to the local GW store in the city today to playtest some WH Fantasy. Can anyone compare the current WH Fantasy armies to 40k armies to help me understand how they play? 40k is my only tabletop wargame experience and I was playing in 3rd edition (I believe).

[Erloas]

It would probably be easier to just say what you are looking for and go from there. Liking the models will also have a very big impact on your enjoyment of the game, and there isn't anything about that anyone else can say.

There are armies of each without any real direct cross-over. Also the entire focus of the game changes a lot, being mostly shooting with some melee backup to mostly melee with some shooting and magic backup.

Even Orcs and Goblins compared to Orks doesn't work all that well. Sure they are both horde armies that like close combat, but what that dynamic means in the two games is completely different. Orks in 40k almost always win most close combat encounters, and usually very decisively with superior numbers, O&G still use superior numbers but they generally need to be in multiple units working together to win and they aren't going to be steamrolling others in CC the same way.

Seeing as you have picked a specific game it might be best to go to the Warhammer fantasy thread to find out more about the game and armies. The thread could use a bit more activity too.

[Ent]

Erloas: It took me awhile, but I've read through that thread and it has given me some ideas. I couldn't tell if people were speaking only about the current edition though.

[BloodyAngel]

Yeah, comparing fantasy and 40K armies won't quite work... the two games are pretty different.

For fantasy, I'd suggest you talk to the fantasy players at your store about it before you buy anything. But if you want a run down of the armies, I'll rant a bit for you.

Opinionated ramblings: Take with a grain of salt.

Greenskins - Not a beginner army unless you're a good sport. They play best in huge mobs, which often makes them expensive to purchase in cold hard cash... but they can be great fun. Just accept that your army won't listen to you all the time.

Empire - A good all-around force that can do anything. It's leanings, if any, lie in it's war machines and guns. They can also be played as a horde army, beating enemies with numbers... If anything, the empire's main downside is that it can be hard to build a force, as you'll want to do EVERYTHING... which means you'll not do anything well. Also a bit pricy, cash-wise. You'll learn everything about the game though.

Dwarves - Easy mode. Playing dwarves is pretty simple for beginners to grasp. Sit still and shoot. Experts will know how to deal with you, but the rest will struggle. Dwarven shooting is some of the best in the game and their warmachines pack a punch. (And are more reliable than the Empire's... if less destructive) They're an elite army too, so it won't strain your pockets as much... but you may find yourself bored with having only the one trick. Playing dwarves means you'll never use magic and movement isn't really an option, so you'll only learn about half the game.

High Elves - An expert army... as in you need to be one to do well. Elves in general are fragile and easy to kill, yet expensive in points-per-model... so you can't afford to take heavy losses. High elves are known for their elite infantry now. (they used to be cav-heavy) I wouldn't suggest them unless you just really like their fluff. Their tricks lie in always striking first in close combat, and in their impressive magic / artifacts. They're pretty vulnerable to shooting, but if you like a challenge, give them a try.

Dark Elves - My favorite army, if only on fluff. They're also fragile, but they pack a mean punch. Their rule is hatred, so their army is scary efficient in close combat. Rarely will you miss a hit roll. They came out the best of the elven armies in the new updates (they used to be terrible) so now they're played a lot more often. If you like a fast offensive game, Dark elves are great. They don't play defense too well, and they're as fragile as any elven army... The main trick to playing them is to brutally rip people apart quickly, because you won't win wars of attrition. They DO have a lot of monsters they can haul out if you like big beasties though. The hydra is particularly nasty.

Wood Elves - Play them if you like archers. Wood elves are all skirmishers (Except eternal guard, but we don't talk about them), so they play a lot like 40k armies... constantly moving, seeking cover... taking potshots at people and dancing away from direct combat unless it's on their terms. They're hard to master, but can be scary when you do... and they have some of the coolest looking models in the game IMHO. Also, they're expensive, point-wise... so your army will be cheap and small. Their downsides lie in a nearly-complete lack of armor... and the fact that they will lose any close combat they're not prepared for. Also, unlike the other two elven armies, they have pretty lousy magic.

Brettonian - If you like knights... go brets. Their armies are almost nothing but. A bret force is composed of a mix of heavy armored knights on chargers, and unwashed peasant mobs. Don't let anyone tell you that the latter can be left behind. Brets are a one-trick army at times... as it's almost impossible to play them without playing to their cavalry, but they can be very, very good if you know how to use them. They're fast and durable... if lacking a bit in magic and shooting. They hit wicked hard on the charge though... and afterwards, rely on those peasants to turn the tide if the enemy doesn't break.

Chaos - Comes in 3 flavors in fantasy. Mortal chaos, or Hordes... is considered the most fair and balanced... Daemons are considered a walking pile of overpowered cheese, and Beasts are rarely mentioned at all. They're all close-combat armies with little shooting, if any. Mortals are a mix of heavily armored killing machines and mobs of marauding... well... marauders. Daemons are pretty broken. You have to actively TRY to make them bad. Beasts are lagging in power, and need an update. They're also a skirmish army, but very hard to use. No matter what you play, close combat murder is their goal.

Undead - Two armies here. Vampire counts, who come very close to daemons in power.... and Tomb kings who... don't. Undead are a weird army to play, as they bend a lot of the game's rules. They don't run, they don't panic, they don't stop. They also keep coming back if you kill them. Pound for pound though, they're pretty awful troops (with a few exceptions) who rely on their heroes to do the damage it takes to win battles. You'll never break them though. Undead work best in battles of attrition, as their soldiers keep coming back until they've worn their foes down. Vampires in particular have a NASTY magic phase that can see half their army come back from the dead.... again. Their main flaw is if their general dies, their army crumbles apart... so you'll learn to fear character-hunters.

Lizardmen - Big and scary, the lizardmen are a good overall force. Their infantry are hard, their cavalry... well... hit hard... and they can bring out giant monsters like you wouldn't believe. Their magic users are fat toads that float around... and they're arguably the best mages in the game. Their main drawback is price. Points-wise... lizards are expensive and that makes their armies small. Lizards function well at every part of the game, and are a decent overall army to learn the game with.

Ogres - Giant. Fat. Mongolians. If you like the idea of huge, sweaty monsters smashing and eating things... play ogres. Their army will be cheap to buy... as ogres are VERY expensive in points-per-model... so you can get a lot for not much cash. They hit hard and can dish out a lot of hurt. The downside... you'll ALWAYS be outnumbered, and that can really hurt. Their magic is surprizingly good. Their shooting... not as much. Ogres are hard to win with, but can be a lot of fun. Even if you don't play them... give their book a quick read. It's hilarious.

Skaven - I haven't seen the newly updated Skaven, so this might be unreliable info... but unless they've changed a LOT... skaven are a horde army. Your force will consist of mobs and mobs of ratmen... most of whom are terrible in close combat. Like a goblin force, they win by numbers and numbers alone... which makes them expensive to purchase, as you'll need so many. Their artillery are unreliable and prone to EXPLOSIVE malfunction, but amazingly destructive. In essence, they play like the rats they are... sneaky... cowardly and dirty. Don't fight fair if you're skaven. They're the only army in the game that can shoot their own men... And they often do. That should give you a vague idea of how they work.

Don't think I left anything out. God I love a good rant! :smallwink:

[Hida Reju]

See if you can find an old copy of the SSI Alamo game. Still one of the best games I ever got to mess with.

Other good choices are the EVE board game, its a massive wargame.

If its miniatures then go to the game store you want to hang at and see what is the most popular otherwise you might get into a game no one plays.

[Blayze]

Don't forget the Danse Macabre, Bloody. I've never seen another spell attract so many Dispel dice -- well, other than Comet of Cassandoras that grow to stupid sizes.