Anti optimization?

[deuxhero]

Are there anythings that make you worse for taking them? By worse I don't mean something like toughness (it gives you a few HP, a bad choice, but it doesn't make you "worse") but something like Blue Mage/Rainbow Servant 10, where taking the tenth level makes your head explode (speaking of Blue Mage, is it still around after The Conception? Mirrors?) with no way to prevent it.

[Lycanthromancer]

Poison makes you worse for taking it.

Also, green star adept.

Levels in truenamer.

Vow of Poverty (sans a few very specific builds).

Blighter.

Forsaker.

[deuxhero]

Vow of poverty prehaps, but blighter is better than no level up at all (IIRC), and that disqualifies it.

[DragoonWraith]

GSA 10 definitely counts. Vow of Poverty usually counts. But I kind of doubt there's out there that's worse than nothing, heh.

[Korivan]

levels in commoner...as long as you don't start throwing in Dragon Magizines.

[Lycanthromancer]

Vow of poverty prehaps, but blighter is better than no level up at all (IIRC), and that disqualifies it.
You lose 6+ levels of druid abilities up to that point.

[Akal Saris]

Conjurer 5/Malconvoker 5/Alienist 1

Malconvoker doubles the amount of evil outsiders that you summon with Summon Monster. Alienist removes all evil outsiders from your list of Summon Monster. Now you cry at night.

[deuxhero]

You lose 6+ levels of druid abilities up to that point.

Ex druid 6/blighter 1 is better than ex-druid 6.

[Starscream]

Ashbound is a decent feat for summoners, but it means you despise all arcane magic. You'll never accept a buff or a teleport from the party wizard again.

However, this is described via fluff rather than crunch. Some DMs may choose to disregard it, so it's debatable whether this counts.

[Optimystik]

*Points fearfully at the "worst PrC" thread*

[Mushroom Ninja]

Take mage slayer as a wizard.

[Draz74]

Poison makes you worse for taking it.
:smalltongue:


Also, green star adept.
Very true (as far as the tenth level goes, at least). Unless your CON score was bad anyway, which is a foolish choice anyway; but yeah, in that case, at least, GSA 10 would be a positive thing.


Levels in truenamer.
No. No! No! Truenamer isn't the strongest class in the game, but it's really not that bad. It's much more powerful than CW Samurai, IMHO. But without getting into that debate here ... Truenamer levels are surely, demonstrably better than Aristocrat levels, yes? And Aristocrat is demonstrably better than Commoner (sans Chicken Infested shenanigans), yes? And even those Commoner levels are better than nothing, a lower-level character entirely.

So Truenamer may arguably be the Toughness of classes, but that's not what this thread is about. Truenamer levels certainly do not make you weaker.


Vow of Poverty (sans a few very specific builds).
Yeah, I'll give you that one, although there are underlying assumptions here about Wealth by Level than would otherwise be granted. Compared to a character with no magic items at all, VoP is certainly a huge boost!

[Deth Muncher]

I believe there's a Nup-Nup build around here somewhere...

[Lycanthromancer]

What about becoming a psionic sandwich?

[Akal Saris]

What about becoming a psionic sandwich?

But it's so much more OP than the non-psionic sandwich! Nerf psionics!

(And wasn't that build still able to do something with telekinesis?)

[Lycanthromancer]

Ex druid 6/blighter 1 is better than ex-druid 6.

And druid 6 is better than either.