Exalted: Glories of the Most High

[The Demented One]

God, I hope this comes out tomorrow.

If you've not heard, a set of three pdf releases that detail the Celestial Incarnae, as well as providing numerous high-essence Charms, more martial arts, artifacts, creatures, and more. My anticipation of this is literally titanic.

[The Rose Dragon]

I'm still waiting for the North book to come out on RPGNow.com.

Why would it come out tomorrow, though?

[The Demented One]

I'm still waiting for the North book to come out on RPGNow.com.

Why would it come out tomorrow, though?
The way White Wolf's AP release schedule comes out, it'll be coming out on a Wednesday–and since it's been delayed since the start of October, coming out this one would be lovely. It's theoretically finished and ready to go, so it's far from impossible.

(And btdubs, Compass: North should hit in pdf form on the 11th)

[ZeroNumerous]

Eh. I've never liked the idea of stating out the Incarnae, Primordials, Neverborn or any of the setting-wreckers as they are. Sure, you could throw stats on after the circle has been through an arduous journey to weaken the target and/or empower themselves to the point where they stand on even ground. But as is: I feel it limits the immense might of these kinds of beings.

[Weimann]

Surely you could just disregard the book in that case? :)

[The Demented One]

Eh. I've never liked the idea of stating out the Incarnae, Primordials, Neverborn or any of the setting-wreckers as they are. Sure, you could throw stats on after the circle has been through an arduous journey to weaken the target and/or empower themselves to the point where they stand on even ground. But as is: I feel it limits the immense might of these kinds of beings.
Given that killing immense, world-creating, all-powerful beings was why the Exalted were made in the first place, I think it fits with the game.

(And even if you aren't a fan of Incarna stats, everyone's gotta love more high-Essence Exalted goodies. Especially Sidereals)

[ZeroNumerous]

Given that killing immense, world-creating, all-powerful beings was why the Exalted were made in the first place, I think it fits with the game.

Sure, superficially. But like every other MacGuffin, they're not really a prominent figure in anything except the final battle. They loom overhead menacingly, but never come down and step on you because it doesn't make for a good story. Which is partly why I don't like having them stated out to begin with. But it only gets worse when they're weaker than the PCs currently are.

For example: The Unconquered Sun is invincible in battle as is. So, if you have stats for him before the epic quest to slay him begins and he's runty compared to your Circle... Well, why haven't they just up and killed him already? White Wolf certainly hasn't done terribly well in the past with Deathlords, so I'm not expecting a lot from them in terms of deific stats.

High Essence-wise: I always end up running Exalted rather than playing. :smallfrown:

[Indon]

Eh. I've never liked the idea of stating out the Incarnae, Primordials, Neverborn or any of the setting-wreckers as they are. Sure, you could throw stats on after the circle has been through an arduous journey to weaken the target and/or empower themselves to the point where they stand on even ground. But as is: I feel it limits the immense might of these kinds of beings.

While I agree with running a bit rules-loose with the most powerful beings in the setting, I might note that Exalted have every bit the capability of matching those beings. The Incarnae only have Essence 10, even (per the Infernals book).

The idea that a circle (or small army, more likely) of Exalts could up and kill the Incarnae is an entirely reasonable thing in the setting. Ditto the wildly powerful Deathlords and Neverborn, or the Yozis.

If it exists in the Exalted setting, an Exalt can kill it. Sometimes, if it doesn't exist in the setting, an Exalt can still kill it.

[Draxar]

Sure, superficially. But like every other MacGuffin, they're not really a prominent figure in anything except the final battle. They loom overhead menacingly, but never come down and step on you because it doesn't make for a good story. Which is partly why I don't like having them stated out to begin with. But it only gets worse when they're weaker than the PCs currently are.

For example: The Unconquered Sun is invincible in battle as is. So, if you have stats for him before the epic quest to slay him begins and he's runty compared to your Circle... Well, why haven't they just up and killed him already? White Wolf certainly hasn't done terribly well in the past with Deathlords, so I'm not expecting a lot from them in terms of deific stats.

High Essence-wise: I always end up running Exalted rather than playing. :smallfrown:

As they stated on Admiral Leviathan's statblock, they tend to lean towards understatting rather than overstatting, because it's rather easier for an experienced group to see the style/aim of a statblock and upgrade it to meet their player's power level, than it is for an inexperienced group to down-power.

[Jerthanis]

As they stated on Admiral Leviathan's statblock, they tend to lean towards understatting rather than overstatting, because it's rather easier for an experienced group to see the style/aim of a statblock and upgrade it to meet their player's power level, than it is for an inexperienced group to down-power.

I very much disagree with this.

If a creature has Accuracy pools of 23, and five powerful listed charms, it's easier to take away two charms and lower the accuracy to 17 than it is to spontaneously create two appropriate charms.

If they gave Plentimon of the Dice everything he has currently, plus a power that automatically turns up every die rolled against him as a 1, and I noticed nothing the PCs had could get through that defense, I can very swiftly, on the fly take that away from him.

If the charms he's got are not helping at all in the arena the PCs are engaging him in, and I want the conflict to be dramatic, it's very difficult for me to spontaneously say, "Uh... he activates X power that I just made up."

I really have no idea where white-wolf got that idea in their head.

As for Glories, I might pick it up for setting detail and chapter comics. I don't have confidence Exalted will ever put out usable high essence content.

[ZeroNumerous]

While I agree with running a bit rules-loose with the most powerful beings in the setting, I might note that Exalted have every bit the capability of matching those beings. The Incarnae only have Essence 10, even (per the Infernals book).

Two beings at Essence 10 are not on the same scale power-wise. While every Exalt has the possibility of matching any of these creatures in Essence-stats, they lack the possibility of matching them in the stats which are relevant. Particularly since Gods and their ilk can up and break the rules concerning ability/attribute dots. I'd be surprised if the Unconquered Sun had less than 20 in anything before any enhancement from charms. After all, he's not a very good god of perfection if he's not perfect.


The idea that a circle (or small army, more likely) of Exalts could up and kill the Incarnae is an entirely reasonable thing in the setting. Ditto the wildly powerful Deathlords and Neverborn, or the Yozis.

As Creation is currently? I doubt it immensely. Remember what it took to kill the Primordials originally: All 300 Solars, all 300 Lunars, all 100 Sidereals and millions, potentially billions, of DBs with armor made by Autochton, weapons made by the Mountain Folk and magic stolen from the Primordials themselves. And in the end they still sacrificed 90% of Creation to kill just a few and enslave the rest.

Granted, it'd be possible if they gathered all those things up. But I doubt they'd succeed with anything less than that, and Creation is just too... Lesser, I guess, to produce that level of awesome on demand. If they did decide to take the fight to the Gods, the remaining Yozis or the Neverborn then it'd be a thing which takes a few centuries just to breed enough DBs to sacrifice.

[The Demented One]

*Makes the Victory Over Publishing Delays Mudra* (http://rpg.drivethrustuff.com/product_info.php?products_id=65616)

[Indon]

Two beings at Essence 10 are not on the same scale power-wise. While every Exalt has the possibility of matching any of these creatures in Essence-stats, they lack the possibility of matching them in the stats which are relevant. Particularly since Gods and their ilk can up and break the rules concerning ability/attribute dots. I'd be surprised if the Unconquered Sun had less than 20 in anything before any enhancement from charms. After all, he's not a very good god of perfection if he's not perfect.
Can spirits take perfect actions? I don't know of any 2E Exalted spirit charms, so.


As Creation is currently? I doubt it immensely. Remember what it took to kill the Primordials originally: All 300 Solars, all 300 Lunars, all 100 Sidereals and millions, potentially billions, of DBs with armor made by Autochton, weapons made by the Mountain Folk and magic stolen from the Primordials themselves. And in the end they still sacrificed 90% of Creation to kill just a few and enslave the rest.
Yes, the Exalts are less. But so are their enemies.

The Incarnae are beings inferior to the Primordials. The Yozis possess a fraction of the power and knowledge they once had. The majority of the power of the Neverborn is, in fact, the power of their Deathlords.

The only whole primordials denoted in the setting are Autocthon, who is sleeping, and Gaia. Arguably, exalts of the Second Age would have their work cut out against those two.

[The Demented One]

Can spirits take perfect actions? I don't know of any 2E Exalted spirit charms, so.
Divine Subordination of (Ability) lets any spirit take a perfect action. The Unconquered Sun's Perfection Beyond Imagining lets him do it even more so.


The Incarnae are beings inferior to the Primordials. The Yozis possess a fraction of the power and knowledge they once had. The majority of the power of the Neverborn is, in fact, the power of their Deathlords.
Define "inferior." If we're talking just straight combat, Sol Invictus could kill the Ebon Dragon in one blow–and this is no hyperbole–were it not for the geas. The Primordials are nigh-omnipotent within their sundry and somewhat schizophrenic purviews, less so outside of them.

[The Demented One]

As they stated on Admiral Leviathan's statblock, they tend to lean towards understatting rather than overstatting, because it's rather easier for an experienced group to see the style/aim of a statblock and upgrade it to meet their player's power level, than it is for an inexperienced group to down-power.
The Incarna statblocks come with pretty detailed advice for raising or lowering their power level.

[The Rose Dragon]

Now I have to wait until Saturday to buy these.

Damn the allure of New World of Darkness products' discount!

EDIT: *sigh* Yet still no The North.

[Jerthanis]

Pfft, no chapter comics and no original art whatsoever.

I am impressed by the varieties of mechanics presented, they included things like Thamturgical rituals, which would be weak for starting Dragonbloods. Truly these books would be useful for all levels of play, even if only a couple paragraphs. I like the explanation for what's going on with Gaia, though I'm frustrated that I have to throw it out completely for the plot I'm running because it wasn't ever indicated anywhere.

I haven't gotten into the charms yet, but while flipping through I noticed there was a charm about improving Anima effects. I sure hope what they did to Zenith was "one additional die above what it was before" rather than "one die INSTEAD of what it was before"

The Night effect from that charm is probably too good when you take into account Observer Deceiving Attack.

[The Demented One]

I haven't gotten into the charms yet, but while flipping through I noticed there was a charm about improving Anima effects. I sure hope what they did to Zenith was "one additional die above what it was before" rather than "one die INSTEAD of what it was before"

That would be correct.

[The Rose Dragon]

By the way, can you give us a quick summary of content that is usable pre-Essence 6?

[The Demented One]

By the way, can you give us a quick summary of content that is usable pre-Essence 6?
FREAKIN' TONS.

The vast majority of the Charms are pre-Essence 6, which isn't to say that there aren't good Elder Powers (World-Scarring Glory and God-Beast Transcendence come to mind). There are also four CMA (Arms of the Unconquered Sun Style, Crystal Chameleon Style, Crane Style, and White Reaper Style). In addition, as a nice little touch, each of the Incarna has a list of thaumaturgical rites they grant to their worshippers.

[The Rose Dragon]

Dammit.

Any information on Pluto?

[The Demented One]

Dammit.

Any information on Pluto?
There's a quick reference to potential other maidens, but no concrete details.

[Jerthanis]

There's one Sidereal Martial Art and most incredibly, additional Sidereal Charms.

The explanation is that they were Primordial War charms sealed away by the Maidens ever since. That in the modern age these wards could be shattered, and the charms relearned. None of them are greater than Essence 5 though.

[The Rose Dragon]

What is the Sidereal Martial Art about?

More importantly, what are its sutras?

[The Demented One]

What is the Sidereal Martial Art about?

More importantly, what are its sutras?
Sex.


Once, there was a lustful maiden...
...who desired the ideal lover.
She flirted her way across Creation,
courting handsome boys
and smiling girls.
She attended great debauches, but quantity did not satisfy.
Finally, she met a mirror. Realizing she had learned nothing,
the maiden was satisfied.

One morning, the maiden awoke...
...to find herself wearing a leash and collar.
She could not recall when or where she had acquired such fetters.
She set about to follow the leash,
pursuing it past a line of all her former lovers,
and found that it resided in her hand.

[Jerthanis]

What is the Sidereal Martial Art about?

More importantly, what are its sutras?

Uh...

Once there was a lusty maiden...
...who desired the ideal lover.
She flirted her way across Creation,
courting handsome boys
and smiling girls.
She attended great debauches, but quantity did not satisfy.
Finally, she met a mirror. Realizing she had learned nothing,
the maiden was satisfied

Elder sutra

One morning the maiden awoke...
...to find herself wearing a leash and collar.
She could not recall when or where she had acquired such fetters.
She set about to follow the leash,
pursuing it past a line of all her former lovers,
and found it resided in her hand.

I'll let you figure out what concepts it embodies for yourself.

Ninja'd

[Sir Homeslice]

So I'm reading through UCS' statblock and uh...


Bureaucracy 6 (Celestial Bureaucracy +1, Ruling the Universe +2), Craft (Earth) 3 (Temples to Himself +3), Ride 6 (Luna +1)

I just found it amusing is all.

[ZeroNumerous]

So I'm reading through UCS' statblock and uh...

I just found it amusing is all.


Ride 6 (Luna +1)

I find this infinitely more amusing.

[The Demented One]

I just found it amusing is all.
(Ruling the Universe) is now my favorite specialty, ever. Luna's Ride (Gaia +3) specialty is a close second.

[Justyn]

I got the entire set, and looking over the Solar charms, they are really good. Really freaking good. A melee charm that makes One Weapon, Two Blows permanent and than lets you double the effect by activating the charm, one that makes Fire and Stones Strike scene length. A supplemental charm that lets you make any attack perfect and holy.

And those are just the Melee charms.

[Tavar]

There's one Sidereal Martial Art and most incredibly, additional Sidereal Charms.

The explanation is that they were Primordial War charms sealed away by the Maidens ever since. That in the modern age these wards could be shattered, and the charms relearned. None of them are greater than Essence 5 though.

Huh, forgive my exalted inexperience, but why is the fact that there are more sidereal charms important? Is there some sort of restriction, and if so, why?

And is there anything that SMA's don't do? Cause it seems that there's one for everything.

[BobVosh]

Can you give a quick rundown on some of the thaum rituals? I always enjoyed those for some reason.

[The Demented One]

Huh, forgive my exalted inexperience, but why is the fact that there are more sidereal charms important? Is there some sort of restriction, and if so, why?

And is there anything that SMA's don't do? Cause it seems that there's one for everything.
Sidereals can't make their own charms, but astrological charms–the super-secret voodoo the Maidens sealed away–are something they can make, if the players convince the Maidens to unlock them. They're different from normal charms in a couple ways: using them causes you to gain paradox, the inflict an penalty on anyone trying to craft fate for a week after you use them, and the effects they allow are big, very powerful for their essence level, and unorthodox. They're not SMA because they're not martial arts–no matter how many styles a sifu makes, they're all going to be, at heart, a variant of hitting people. Maybe hitting people so hard they turn into adorable ducklings, or curing cancer by hitting people, or changing the future by hitting reality, but still. These let them do very non-Martial Arts things, like reading their past life's mind, or turning demons into gods.

[Jerthanis]

Can you give a quick rundown on some of the thaum rituals? I always enjoyed those for some reason.

In the Art of Alchemy, you get Strange Days Tincture, Which lets you dream you were the opposite sex.

River Straddling Liquer lets you look androgynous for a week.

In Art of Husbandry, there's Greeting the Sun, a ritual that requires five daily prayers to the Unconquered Sun, which makes botches a regular failure between prayers.

A Canticle of Hope, which, if you need them, lets all Lawgivers in a certain area get the sudden feeling that someone over there needs them.

Acurete Dowsing lets you find unworked gold or silver

First Greeting lets you name a baby auspiciously, which gives them an additional resistance die.

Harmonious Union sanctifies a marriage before heaven and grants temperance dice to avoiding temptations that would jeopardize the relationship for the first year of marriage.

Sundered Unione, which does what it sounds like it does.

Thanks for the Hunt blesses a beast slain in a hunt to be extra-nutritious and disease free.

In Spirit Beckoning you get one that lets you summon the aid of the Sun through aid of his least servants, but if you're unvirtuous, or not in dire need, you get royally screwed over.

In Art of Warding you get one that lets you prepare an area such that Creatures of Darkness take -2 to actions in that area.

Secret Passage Idol lets you... sail on the Western Oceans without angering the Storm Mothers and also not having a redheaded woman on your mast-head.

Things Best Lost helps to hide things by making them lost among clutter and so on.

In Art of the Dead, you get the basic rules for proper funeral rites, but I don't think they're strong enough. 3wp to ignore it basically means that if that serial killer didn't want to be put down, he isn't

In Art of Geomancy you get Tripping the Steel to sanctify a duel such that people who dishonor its procedures or process get minorly disadvantaged.

Geomancy also has one that lets you purge your memories of all the crimes you've committed, and one that helps you stave off the Wyld by burning unique objects

[The Demented One]

Dammit.

Any information on Pluto?
Actually, yes. There's an Astrological charm that implies that Pluto is the Maiden of Ashes.

[The Rose Dragon]

I thought that referred to Saturn in one of her weird epithets.

Also, does anyone else find it weird that Venus has a lower Appearance, and overall Social Attributes and Abilities, than Luna?

[The Demented One]

I thought that referred to Saturn in one of her weird epithets.

Also, does anyone else find it weird that Venus has a lower Appearance, and overall Social Attributes and Abilities, than Luna?
Not at all. Luna social-fu's people by being the most beautiful and charismatic thing they can imagine, Venus does it by just being perfectly destined to do it...unless she isn't.