Strip 32

[Kaed]

I was going to put this in the Strip 28 thread, but I figured people would complain about me changing the subject despite that topic matter getting uglier as time goes on (the second reply to the thread having been scrubbed by a mod already).

On the subject of older strips I've always wondered if strip #32 was a gag or if Rich actually got a C&D from Wizards of the Coast for putting in a mind flayer.

Today illithid are in fact still not part of the SRD (http://www.d20srd.org/faq.htm# See 2), but that does not necessarily mean that they called him out on it. The entire little arc took place in a secret back room that 'no one was supposed to notice' so that might have been the joke setup.

[Moff Chumley]

I doubt it was a cease and desist. He would've had to remove the content from his site if it was.

Betcha five bucks I've been ninja'd.

EDIT: ... :smallyuk:

[mikeejimbo]

Yeah, if he got a C&D he wouldn't even be able to make the joke about it, I think.

See, I think that this falls under fair use because it's a parody, but I Am Not A Lawyer, and This Is Not Legal Advice. Please consult your nearest legal representative.

[Starscream]

Nah, using one in a brief and parodical manner is Fair Use. I remember watching Futurama and seeing quick cameos from a Beholder and a Rust Monster.

I even know of one webcomic that uses copyrighted D&D monsters as regular characters. But it has never been collected in book form, if it was then WoTC might have a problem with it.

[Herald Alberich]

Heck, according to the OP's link Displacer Beasts are Product Identity as well, yet there they are in #210 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0210.html) without even a copyright joke. Falls under fair use, as does the comic as a whole (http://www.giantitp.com/FAQ.html#faq13).

[Kaed]

Makes sense to me. Thanks for clarifying!

Also,


"How long does this potion of Cognitive Dissonance last? I'm starting to get a moral dilemma, I think..."

Yay Piffany :D

[The Recreator]

It's worth noting that the print version of the comic refers to the mind flayer as a "brain-eating aberration" - though Illithoid still remains in Elan's checklist of possible names for the squid thingy. In fact, a lot of things that could be construed as copyright violation were changed in the carry-over from web to print. Make of that what you will.

[Thanatosia]

Nah, using one in a brief and parodical manner is Fair Use. I remember watching Futurama and seeing quick cameos from a Beholder and a Rust Monster.
On the Origin of PCs also has a Rust Monster in it.

[NerfTW]

The image of a rust monster, mind flayer, and beholder are a bit too generic to be copyrighted. The names are copyrighted, but you can draw a monster that looks like it with no problem. For example, just look at the massive amount of squid headed creatures there are in fantasy and science fiction.

Plus, as noted, it was intended to be a commentary on WotC's rules about errata that's copyrighted. So it most likely falls under fair use. There was a post about this a while ago, I think, where he said that he changed it in the book just to be safe, but I might just be imagining that.

[Porthos]

In fact, a lot of things that could be construed as copyright violation were changed in the carry-over from web to print. Make of that what you will.

Can you name any others besides that strip?

I'll note, for instance, the the inclusions of the huecuva, The Eye of Fear and Flame, and the death knight were not changed in the print form of WaXP.

In fact as near as I can tell, strip #31/32 is the only time he changed things around.

Why?

Well, I'm not Rich, obviously, so I can only speculate. Perhaps since he was just starting out he wasn't sure he wanted to press things when he first went to print form. Maybe he hadn't fully researched his rights as a writer. Maybe he didn't feel like pushing against WotC and drawing attention to himself quite yet. Or maybe it's none of those reasons.

Who knows?

All I can say is since DCF was published, non-SRD content has found it's way into the comic and it hasn't been changed when it was put into book form.

As you said, make of that what you will.


The image of a rust monster, mind flayer, and beholder are a bit too generic to be copyrighted. The names are copyrighted, but you can draw a monster that looks like it with no problem. For example, just look at the massive amount of squid headed creatures there are in fantasy and science fiction.

Plus, as noted, it was intended to be a commentary on WotC's rules about errata that's copyrighted. So it most likely falls under fair use. There was a post about this a while ago, I think, where he said that he changed it in the book just to be safe, but I might just be imagining that.

Yeah, I seem to recall that as well. However it is possible that Rich looked into things since that time and changed his policy accordingly. While the death knight could be argued to be generic, as well as the huecuva (although using that spelling, it gets more problematic), the capatalized Eye of Fear and Flame is a bit harder to explain away. :smalltongue:

[factotum]

For example, just look at the massive amount of squid headed creatures there are in fantasy and science fiction.


Which probably derive from the usual way Cthulhu is represented in artwork, so dates back to long before the Mind Flayer made an appearance...

[Jackson]

As is true of many D&D monsters. It's not as though the game is marketed on its creativity in terms of inventing monsters.

As has been said, if it wasn't a joke (i.e. if it were a serious cease and desist) the strips wouldn't be available today unless there were a (public) court battle resolved in the favor of the Giant. Which seems unlikely.

[Nevitan]

Can you name any others besides that strip?


Strip Number 6. Durkon becomes a box of John and John Band aids instead of Johnson and Johnson.

[ZerglingOne]

In Dungeon Crawlin' Fools (the published work of course) the panel where it says "let's see what the mind flayer is thinking" It says "Brain eating aberration." My guess is this is due to the fact that Rich doesn't profit off the webcomic, but DOES profit off the published books. So while it's no big deal on the web, it actually does matter in the paper "pay to play" version.

edit: I will be pulling the shuriken out of my back for weeks.

[hamishspence]

Strip 16:

"which is kinda cool"
"A lich is binding ghouls?? TURN UNDEAD!"

is changed to:

"which is cool"
"A lich's ghoul?? TURN UNDEAD!"

in the print edition.

[hamishspence]

It's worth noting that the print version of the comic refers to the mind flayer as a "brain-eating aberration" - though Illithoid still remains in Elan's checklist of possible names for the squid thingy. In fact, a lot of things that could be construed as copyright violation were changed in the carry-over from web to print. Make of that what you will.

It is changed from "Illithid" in the online one, to "Illithoid" in the print one.

[Jagos]

I'd say that's probably a typo...

[Tass]

Strip 16:

"which is kinda cool"
"A lich is binding ghouls?? TURN UNDEAD!"

is changed to:

"which is cool"
"A lich's ghoul?? TURN UNDEAD!"

in the print edition.

"Kinda" is copyrighted??

[hamishspence]

I'd say that's probably a typo...

I thought it was more a case of Illithid being "more copyrighted" so to speak, than "Mind Flayer" is- it is more of a trademark- hence- more likely to get the change.

"Kinda" isn't copyright- but it is an example of things changing between strip and book.

It is more likely, that the author thought the joke a little clumsy- so reduced it.

[RecklessFable]

Generally, this falls under parody, eh?

[hamishspence]

yes- aside from DCF, there haven't been any jokes about copyrighted creatures.

Was just pointing out- that there was that particular wording difference between print and online strips.

[feltex]

It is changed from "Illithid" in the online one, to "Illithoid" in the print one.

Good catch. Probably a deliberate typo. (For those not following, this in strip #30)

[hamishspence]

I figured it was intentional- doesn't that mean it ceases to become a typo?

[feltex]

Yep. My point exactly.

[Kish]

"Illithid" changes to "Illithoid," "Mind Flayer" in Elan's thoughts changes to "Brain Eater," "Mind Flayer" in the "Hey kids!" message changes to "Brain-eating aberration." I would venture that the balance of probability is against "Illithoid" being a typo.

[Totally Guy]

In the Order of the Stick Adventure Game there is a monster card for that guy.
It says...

Illithoid, wink wink

:smallsmile: