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JellyPooga
2009-11-04, 10:19 AM
After reading this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7242260&postcount=26)in another thread, I got to thinking about Player Characters and the way we see them in relation to other characters (like from films, TV and books). It occured to me that I don't really think of any of my characters in the same way that I do about characters in films and literature. I tend to think of my characters as being "just guys" trying to get along or whatever, whilst the protagonists of media tend to have some purpose; a dead loved one to avenge, a job to do or a world to save.

So how does one transform your Player Character into a true Protagonist of a story? Is there a secret to being a (anti-)Hero, or is it all just perception?

As a secondary thought to this, it occured to me that (especially in D&D) the PCs rarely really act like people. How often do they subdue their foes and bring them to justice rather than just killing them, despite claiming righteousness? How often do they simply ignore the law/customs/people when it suits them, when it is supposed to be those very things they're fighting to protect? Are these characters really the Good Guys? The sort of characters we see on TV or read in books? What can be done to rectify this discrepancy?

AstralFire
2009-11-04, 10:24 AM
After reading this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7242260&postcount=26)in another thread, I got to thinking about Player Characters and the way we see them in relation to other characters (like from films, TV and books). It occured to me that I don't really think of any of my characters in the same way that I do about characters in films and literature. I tend to think of my characters as being "just guys" trying to get along or whatever, whilst the protagonists of media tend to have some purpose; a dead loved one to avenge, a job to do or a world to save.

So how does one transform your Player Character into a true Protagonist of a story? Is there a secret to being a (anti-)Hero, or is it all just perception?

As a secondary thought to this, it occured to me that (especially in D&D) the PCs rarely really act like people. How often do they subdue their foes and bring them to justice rather than just killing them, despite claiming righteousness? How often do they simply ignore the law/customs/people when it suits them, when it is supposed to be those very things they're fighting to protect? Are these characters really the Good Guys? The sort of characters we see on TV or read in books? What can be done to rectify this discrepancy?

It's pretty much perception. The more you perceive it as true, the more you will adjust your roleplaying accordingly as well.

Also, while I am against killing usually (and have had many characters specialize in non-lethally taking out foes), I have the viewpoint that execution or killing are perfectly incontestable, justified methods of dealing with a threat that you cannot reasonably expect to be non-lethally contained. This is very often the case in D&D.

(Though now I just had an idea for how to REALLY stop someone from ever becoming a threat... research a spell that forces resurrection, kill them, resurrect, repeat until they can't be resurrected anymore.)

EDIT: I was NOT expecting to see myself linked in the OP. Even less so with my I PUNCH LIKE A MOTHER feat.

drengnikrafe
2009-11-04, 10:29 AM
The problem with movies, books, and even games like Fable is that they pidgeon hole your character too much.

First and foremost, the purpose of D&D is to have fun. Even if your PCs are all morally ambiguous, and go around doing whatever they want, but are having fun... you are doing a good job as DM. Oftentimes, things don't go as the plot dictates. Those are the best times.

What you want to do is, as the PCs scope of power increases, increase how dramatically things will react to them. At 1st level... well, there are a bunch of 1st level heroes running around. Around 7th level, they are much more potent and unusual. Also, have people react to them as if they had heard of some of what they have done. If they were partially good, have them find some people who have heard of their good deeds, and treat them like heroes. If they've done some bad, have people cower in fear. If they've done both, give them a mix.

In the end, though, my main problem with your questions is that you seem to think the fact that real people playing people who represent real people in a fantasy realm who are not in line with normalcy are bad because of it. They're not. They're people. When you have that kind of power, you can afford to be less than lawful-due-to-fear-of-government, or something like it.

bosssmiley
2009-11-04, 10:30 AM
After reading this post (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7242260&postcount=26)in another thread, I got to thinking about Player Characters and the way we see them in relation to other characters (like from films, TV and books). It occurred to me that I don't really think of any of my characters in the same way that I do about characters in films and literature. I tend to think of my characters as being "just guys" trying to get along or whatever, whilst the protagonists of media tend to have some purpose; a dead loved one to avenge, a job to do or a world to save.

So how does one transform your Player Character into a true Protagonist of a story? Is there a secret to being a (anti-)Hero, or is it all just perception?

You pose a false dichotomy. Being a protagonist does not pre-suppose a higher purpose than just getting through the day. Google picaresque in D&D (http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=picaresque+in+D%26D) (link to save you a few seconds). The Grognardia and dndwithpornstars links are especially thought-provoking and informative in light of D&D's primary inspirations (Vance and Leiber).

Green Bean
2009-11-04, 10:41 AM
"Protagonist" just means that the story's perspective is centred around you. You don't have to want to save the world, or conquer a city, or anything like that. It just means the majority of the action seen is about you. It doesn't even presuppose an element of control; a story centring around some schlub being screwed with by gods or kings is still about the schlub. Honestly, a game where the player's aren't the protagonists needs a new DM, because it means they aren't playing.

AstralFire
2009-11-04, 10:43 AM
While this is accurate, h_v, it's clear that he meant something akin to more typical genre heroes (or anti-heroes, as these have become just as common. Null-heroes are primarily used in comedy.)

Side note: Best superman quote ever. :D

Kaiyanwang
2009-11-04, 10:44 AM
Just a question.. does it really matters everytime?

I mean.. in a "heavy sandbox" game, you'll likely to be just a guy, that struggle to take his place in the world (being successful at mid-high level maybe).

It's of course important make the PC feel thay are important, but their story is what they do... other things feel artificial in my point of view.. :smallconfused:

Tengu_temp
2009-11-04, 11:14 AM
So how does one transform your Player Character into a true Protagonist of a story? Is there a secret to being a (anti-)Hero, or is it all just perception?

Play more story-driven games, as opposed to sandboxes or dungeon crawls, and take action. There you go.



As a secondary thought to this, it occured to me that (especially in D&D) the PCs rarely really act like people. How often do they subdue their foes and bring them to justice rather than just killing them, despite claiming righteousness? How often do they simply ignore the law/customs/people when it suits them, when it is supposed to be those very things they're fighting to protect? Are these characters really the Good Guys? The sort of characters we see on TV or read in books? What can be done to rectify this discrepancy?

I've never encountered that problem - in my games characters usually act their alignment (or personality, I rarely use alignment). In one game one of the PCs got angry and angsty when it turned out that one of the creatures (that they killed) they are defending humanity from was really a human, in another the PCs, who are a law enforcement group, saved a villain from an attempted suicide and captured her in order to bring her to justice rather than just let her die.