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View Full Version : Best weapon choice for an offense-oriented Fighter? [4E]



Indon
2009-11-05, 10:08 AM
Just what it says on the title.

I'm going to be rolling up a new character for my 4E campaign, and I suspect I'm going to be asked to be the Defender again. I've gotten tired of being a walking -2 to hit debuff (since my defenses were so good, the DM judged that it was better just to have the enemies never hit me and soak my one extra attack per round), so I've decided to make a Defender with the best defense.

Anyway, I intend on using a 2-handed weapon. I'm leaning towards a Greataxe at present, and getting a race choice that allows for larger weapons (such as Minotaur), so that I can wield a 2d6 weapon. Then, I would try to get some kind of Brutal effect.

Would that work? Are +3 accuracy weapons such as the Greatsword better than the Greataxe? Is there any easier way to get a Brutal effect than the level 18 magic item I found in the PHB?

I'm level 14, btw.

Mercenary Pen
2009-11-05, 10:16 AM
Last I heard, which admittedly was a while back, Great Weapon fighters weren't considered the best fighter variant out there. If you're after going for massive damage, you might do better going with the Tempest Fighter variant from martial power, which lets you do ranger-style dual wielding, meaning that your suggested Minotaur Fighter could take a pair of Large-sized Longswords and do 2x1d10 every round with an at-will power, and that's without weapon-optimisation.

Kurald Galain
2009-11-05, 10:18 AM
The best defender is probably the Fighter.

The -2 to hit for a mark isn't what's important; the reprisal you can take on creatures ignoring it, is. In this case, that means stabbity time whenever a marked creature attacks your allies, and the always fun "no, you do not move there" interrupt.

For best weapon, I'd suggest something with reach. Combine with Polearm Momentum for an automatic prone on several of your powers, and with multiattack powers (which give you multiple marks) and possibly the ranger's Disruptive Strike. This way, you do a lot of damage by virtue of making many attacks.

By errata, minotaur can no longer use oversized weapons, and only the bugbear (iirc) can still do that. Nevertheless, the minotaur's Opportunity Gore makes for good synergy with being a fighter.

Indon
2009-11-05, 01:06 PM
Hmm, so dual-wielding longswords?

What about basic attacks? In the event of a Warlord-type on my team throwing me extra hits, is Tempest Fighter still the best option for that?

Edit: Also, good to know about the minotaurs. I guess I'll want to look into different +2 Str races.

Mando Knight
2009-11-05, 01:07 PM
The Bugbear Tempest Fighter with a Double Sword is the highest-damage Fighter build I can think of off the top of my head. The build should definitely take either Shock Trooper (increase the damage dice by another size) or Pit Fighter (+Wis on all damage rolls? Signs point to YES) as the Paragon Path. At epic level, it's possible to pull a similar build off with the Half-Orc, since the Eternal Defender Epic Destiny allows a not-Bugbear to wield Large weapons.

Hmm, so dual-wielding longswords?

What about basic attacks? In the event of a Warlord-type on my team throwing me extra hits, is Tempest Fighter still the best option for that?
Double longswords are weak compared to a single Double Sword, which deals the same damage, but has the Off-Hand property for both ends. Note also that you still need the Two-Blade Warrior multiclass feat if you want to dual-wield two not-Off-Hand weapons.

Tempest Fighters are fantastic for basic attack damage, since the main focus for boosting Tempest damage is increasing the static damage modifiers rather than the weapon dice, and the Double Sword is as good as a Longsword anyway.

Indon
2009-11-05, 01:10 PM
Bugbear is not an availible race in the campaign.

I was looking at the PHB options and was wondering about Kensai. Is +1 to hit and +4 damage just not very impressive compared to other options?

Edit: I may or may not be able to use a double sword, but I am intrigued.

Dekkah
2009-11-05, 01:18 PM
If you decide to go with 2hand weapons, i suggest a bloodclaw weapon.
Trading 1 HP for 3 DMg is quite good. At level 14 you should have a +3.... so it is 3 hp for 9 DMG.

Mando Knight
2009-11-05, 01:19 PM
Bugbear is not an availible race in the campaign.

I was looking at the PHB options and was wondering about Kensai. Is +1 to hit and +4 damage just not very impressive compared to other options?

Edit: I may or may not be able to use a double sword, but I am intrigued.
If any other race with a +Str is available, it's fine. Look into Half-Orc or Longtooth Shifter (PHB2 for both), or Goliath or Minotaur. If all that fails, go Dragonborn or Human.

Kensai is good, but if you have a decent Wis modifier, Pit Fighter is better, as it allows you to switch up weapons in the middle of the fight (to a pair of Hand Axes, for instance). If you've got less than 18 Wis, then Kensai is better, and may very well be better if you're going for the Tempest Technique and boosting your Dex instead of your Wis for your secondary stat.

Interestingly, Pit Fighter is part of how I made an Avenger build that has decent damage output and Swordmage-level AC...

Indon
2009-11-05, 01:25 PM
If you decide to go with 2hand weapons, i suggest a bloodclaw weapon.
Trading 1 HP for 3 DMg is quite good. At level 14 you should have a +3.... so it is 3 hp for 9 DMG.

My original plan was to have a Vicious weapon (since it was going to be an axe anyway), but I do really like this.

So I lose HP whenever I deal damage with the weapon in order to do a good amount of extra damage. I very much like.

I don't intend on boosting my Wisdom much, so I guess I'm going Tempest Warrior->Kensai, with a Bloodclaw Double Sword if possible.

This is assuming I get stuck as Defender again. Otherwise, I'll just make a Barbarian that I probably won't need to optimize nearly as much to get decent damage.

Aron Times
2009-11-05, 01:33 PM
The tempest fighter has been nerfed a lot, and doesn't deal as much damage as it used to.

Anyway, I suggest using a fullblade. +3 proficiency, 1d12 damage, and high crit. The most damaging weapon in the game (after factoring in its accuracy). I suggest the following stats:

Strength 16 + 2
Constitution 14
Dexterity 13
Intelligence 10
Wisdom 14
Charisma 8

Stat Increases:

4 - Strength and Dexterity
8 - Strength and Wisdom
14 - Strength and Wisdom
18 - Strength and Dexterity
24 - Strength and Wisdom
28 - Strength and Wisdom

Feats

1 - Action Surge, Fullblade
2 - Weapon Expertise
4 - Weapon Focus
6 - Improved Initiative
8 - Toughness
10 - Blade Opportunist
11 - Scale Armor Specialization
12 - Daunting Challenge
14 - Heavy Blade Opportunity

Powers

At-Will: Cleave, Knockdown Assault, Reaping Strike
Encounter: Dance of Steel, Come and Get It
Daily: Lasting Threat, Rain of Steel, Fighter's Recovery
Utility: Boundless Endurance, Battle Awareness, Menacing Stance

I'll leave it up to you to pick a paragon path, but I suggest either kensei or pit fighter.

Dekkah
2009-11-05, 01:35 PM
The only catch with the bloodclaw is you decide before you attack if you pay the HP (to get the bonus) so if you miss, you loose hps for nothing. But using it isnt mendatory, so if your attaking a minion (and know it is one) or something you dont think you have decent chances of hitting, you may just not activate it.
Also, if you use 1hand weapons, it is 1 HP for 2 DMG (might be worth it anyway, but less potent).
You can also look at the reckless weapons (i think you loose 2 ac to get +4 dmg).

Grynning
2009-11-05, 03:36 PM
The tempest fighter has been nerfed a lot, and doesn't deal as much damage as it used to.


How and when were they nerfed? IIRC the errata only nerfed Battlerager vigor, tempest technique is the same as ever. Tempest Fighter with the shock trooper PP can still deal near-striker level damage at 11th level; my brother's playing one in one of our games and consistently is one of the best damage dealers in a group with a rogue and and a monk.

Tehnar
2009-11-05, 04:06 PM
Dual strike doesn't work against the same target anymore.

One of the options I was considering for my fighter before my game died was a great weapon fighter -> kensai -> eternal defender with fullblade. From lvl 24 onwards (for eternal defender) a fullblade deals 3d6 damage, and you can get a magic item that rerolls ones.

Also I would strongly recommend you start with a 18 STR pre racial. Even with 12 as a secondary stat you can qualify for almost any weapon related feat as they become available, especially if you go for heavy blades.

Grynning
2009-11-05, 08:26 PM
Dual strike doesn't work against the same target anymore.

That's hardly a nerf. It gives you an at-will multi-target power. Even if you're "offense oriented," being able to hit and therefore mark 2 things at a time is a good thing for a fighter (marks can give you free attacks as a fighter, remember). Also, at-wills are hardly where it's at once you hit Paragon level, you'll be using encounter or daily powers for at least the first 4 rounds of a fight whenever you can.

I seriously do recommend a Half-Orc Tempest fighter/shock trooper. The Shock Trooper encounter attack alone is worth the combo, it's basically a 3-hit Blade Cascade. Use a double sword if you want a higher base damage; I like Kukris or Katars personally (for Brutal HB or High-Crit LB depending on your tastes).

If you're set on a Two-hander, at least go Battlerager over Great Weapon, even post-nerf it's a superior class feature.

KillianHawkeye
2009-11-05, 08:28 PM
I like spiked chain Tempest Fighter with the Spiked Chain Training feat from Dragon. Add in Spiked Chain Expert to trade a utility power for a daily stance that gives you threatening reach. :smallwink: