Remember, remember, the 5th of november.

[Archangel Yuki]

Remember, remember the Fifth of November,
The Gunpowder Treason and Plot,
I know no reason
Why the Gunpowder Treason
Should ever be forgot.


Hurrah, the 5th of novermber! time to talk about my favorite comic, and then movie, of all time!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9f/Vforvendettamov.jpg

For those of you living under a rock, V for Vendetta was originally a comic about Britian after a necular war. The Norsefire regime are an extrememly corrupt political and religious regime that has taken over Britian.
and V is there to take it back.

There are major diffrences from the movie and the comic; The comic is much more of an anarchistic theme, while the movie portrays V as more of a freedom fighter.

There is a very critical scene in which V takes over the television station, and you can really see the differences bewteen the two there.
(Warning: large amounts of text.)

Comic
Good evening, London. I thought it time we had a little talk. Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin... I suppose you're wondering why I've called you here this evening. Well, you see, I'm not entirely satisfied with your performance lately... I'm afraid your work's been slipping and... and well, I'm afraid we've been thinking about letting you go.
Oh, I know, I know. You've been with the company a long time now. Almost... let me see. Almost ten thousand years! My word, doesn't time fly? It seems like only yesterday... I remember the day you commenced your employment, swinging down from the trees, fresh-faced and nervous, a bone clasped in your bristling fist...
"Where do I start, sir?", you asked, plaintively. I recalled my exact words: "There's a pile of dinosaur eggs over there, youngster", I said, smiling paternally all the while. "Get sucking". Well, we've certainly come a long way since then, haven't we?
And yes, yes, you're right, in all that time you haven't missed a day. Well done, thou good and faithful servant. Also, please don't think I've forgotten about your outstanding service record, or about all of the invaluable contributions that you've made to the company... Fire, the wheel, agriculture... It's an impressive list, old-timer. A jolly impressive list. Don't get me wrong. But... well, to be frank, we've had our problems too. There's no getting away from it. Do you know what I think alot of it stems from? I'll tell you... It's your basic unwillingness to get on in the company. You don't seem to want to face up to any real responsibility.
To be your own boss. Lord knows you've been given plenty of opportunities... We've offered you promotion time and time again, and each time you've turned us down. "I couldn't handle the work, Guv'Nor", you wheedled. "I know my place". To be frank, you're not trying, are you? You see, you've been standing still for far too long, and its starting to show in your work... And, I might add, in your general standard of behavior.
The constant bickering on the factory floor has not escaped my attention... nor the recent bouts of rowdiness in the staff canteen. Then of course there's... Hmm. Well, I didn't really want to have to bring this up, but... Well, you see, I've been hearing some disturbing rumors about your personal life. No, never you mind who told me. No names, no pack drill... I understand you are unable to get on with your spouse. I hear that you argue. I am told that you shout. Violence has been mentioned. I am reliably informed that you always hurt the one your love... the one you shouldn't hurt at all. And what about the children, its always the children who suffer, as you're well aware. Poor little mites. What are they to make of it? What are they to make of all your bullying, your despair, your cowardice and all your fondly nurtured bigotries? Really, its not good enough, is it?
And its no good blaming the drop in work standards on and management either... though to be sure, the management is very bad. In fact, let us not mince words... The Management is terrible! We've had a string of embezzelers, frauds, liars and lunatics making a string of catastrophic decisions. This is plain fact. But who elected them? It was you! You who elected these people! You who gave them the power to make your decisions for you!
While I'll admit that anyone can make a mistake once, to go on making the same lethal errors century after century seems to me nothing short of deliberate. You have encouraged these malicious incompetents, who have made your working life a shambles. You have accepted without question their senseless orders. You have allowed them to fill your workspace with dangerous and unproven machines. You could have stopped them. All you had to say was "No". You have no spine. You have no pride. You are no longer an asset to the company. I will, however, be generous. You will be granted two years to show me some improvement in your work. If at the end of that time you are still unwilling to make a go of it... you're fired. That will be all. You may return to your labours.


Movie

Good evening, London. Allow me first to apologize for this interruption. I do, like many of you, appreciate the comforts of every day routine — the security of the familiar, the tranquility of repetition.
I enjoy them as much as any bloke. But in the spirit of commemoration, whereby those important events of the past, usually associated with someone's death or the end of some awful bloody struggle, are celebrated with a nice holiday, I thought we could mark this November the 5th, a day that is sadly no longer remembered, by taking some time out of our daily lives to sit down and have a little chat. There are of course those who do not want us to speak.
I suspect even now, orders are being shouted into telephones, and men with guns will soon be on their way. Why? Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission.
How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to the now high chancellor, Adam Sutler. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent. Last night I sought to end that silence. Last night I destroyed the Old Bailey, to remind this country of what it has forgotten. More than 400 years ago a great citizen wished to embed the fifth of November forever in our memory.
His hope was to remind the world that fairness, justice, and freedom are more than words, they are perspectives. So if you've seen nothing, if the crimes of this government remain unknown to you then I would suggest that you allow the fifth of November to pass unmarked.
But if you see what I see, if you feel as I feel, and if you would seek as I seek, then I ask you to stand beside me one year from tonight, outside the gates of Parliament, and together we shall give them a fifth of November that shall never, ever be forgot.


Despite the differences, both teach us to remember...
Vox Populi, Vox Dei.

[The Tygre]

Oh, boop me for forgetting! I love V for Vendetta. It's one of my all time favorite movies and graphic novels. Personally, I prefer the comic to the movie, even though I read it only -after- I saw the movie. Yeah, I'm on -that- fan-boat. I'm still trying to memorize 'The Vicious Cabaret', though I can barely get past the first verse.

[GolemsVoice]

Let's see what I have memorized:

"They say that there's a broken light
for every soul on broadway
Theay say that life's a game
and then they take away the board
They give you masks and costumes,
and an outline of the story
Then leave you all to improvise
this Vicious Cabaret.

In no longer pretty cities
there are fingers in the kitties
there are warrant forms and chitties
and a jackboot on the stair

There's sex and blood and human grime
in monochrome for one thin dime
and at least the trains still run on time
but they don't go anywhere.

At last the 1989 show
*can't remember*

And the widows who refuse tor cry
will be dressed in garter and bow tie
and'll be told to kick their legs up high
in this vicious cabaret


Facing their responsibilities
either on their backs or on their knees
there are ladies who just simply freeze
and dare not turn away"

That's the part I have more or less memorized :smallbiggrin:

And, yes, V is brilliant, both the movie and the comic (yes, I've also first seen the movie). I don't know why the movie gets this much hate, ir's really not bad, though it takes quite some liberties with the original.

Ave atque vale, Playground.

[Berserk Monk]

Remember, remember the Fifth of November,
The Gunpowder Treason and Plot,
I know no reason
Why the Gunpowder Treason
Should ever be forgot.


Hurrah, the 5th of novermber! time to talk about my favorite comic, and then movie, of all time!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/9f/Vforvendettamov.jpg

For those of you living under a rock, V for Vendetta was originally a comic about Britian after a necular war. The Norsefire regime are an extrememly corrupt political and religious regime that has taken over Britian.
and V is there to take it back.

There are major diffrences from the movie and the comic; The comic is much more of an anarchistic theme, while the movie portrays V as more of a freedom fighter.

There is a very critical scene in which V takes over the television station, and you can really see the differences bewteen the two there.
(Warning: large amounts of text.)

Comic
Good evening, London. I thought it time we had a little talk. Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin... I suppose you're wondering why I've called you here this evening. Well, you see, I'm not entirely satisfied with your performance lately... I'm afraid your work's been slipping and... and well, I'm afraid we've been thinking about letting you go.
Oh, I know, I know. You've been with the company a long time now. Almost... let me see. Almost ten thousand years! My word, doesn't time fly? It seems like only yesterday... I remember the day you commenced your employment, swinging down from the trees, fresh-faced and nervous, a bone clasped in your bristling fist...
"Where do I start, sir?", you asked, plaintively. I recalled my exact words: "There's a pile of dinosaur eggs over there, youngster", I said, smiling paternally all the while. "Get sucking". Well, we've certainly come a long way since then, haven't we?
And yes, yes, you're right, in all that time you haven't missed a day. Well done, thou good and faithful servant. Also, please don't think I've forgotten about your outstanding service record, or about all of the invaluable contributions that you've made to the company... Fire, the wheel, agriculture... It's an impressive list, old-timer. A jolly impressive list. Don't get me wrong. But... well, to be frank, we've had our problems too. There's no getting away from it. Do you know what I think alot of it stems from? I'll tell you... It's your basic unwillingness to get on in the company. You don't seem to want to face up to any real responsibility.
To be your own boss. Lord knows you've been given plenty of opportunities... We've offered you promotion time and time again, and each time you've turned us down. "I couldn't handle the work, Guv'Nor", you wheedled. "I know my place". To be frank, you're not trying, are you? You see, you've been standing still for far too long, and its starting to show in your work... And, I might add, in your general standard of behavior.
The constant bickering on the factory floor has not escaped my attention... nor the recent bouts of rowdiness in the staff canteen. Then of course there's... Hmm. Well, I didn't really want to have to bring this up, but... Well, you see, I've been hearing some disturbing rumors about your personal life. No, never you mind who told me. No names, no pack drill... I understand you are unable to get on with your spouse. I hear that you argue. I am told that you shout. Violence has been mentioned. I am reliably informed that you always hurt the one your love... the one you shouldn't hurt at all. And what about the children, its always the children who suffer, as you're well aware. Poor little mites. What are they to make of it? What are they to make of all your bullying, your despair, your cowardice and all your fondly nurtured bigotries? Really, its not good enough, is it?
And its no good blaming the drop in work standards on and management either... though to be sure, the management is very bad. In fact, let us not mince words... The Management is terrible! We've had a string of embezzelers, frauds, liars and lunatics making a string of catastrophic decisions. This is plain fact. But who elected them? It was you! You who elected these people! You who gave them the power to make your decisions for you!
While I'll admit that anyone can make a mistake once, to go on making the same lethal errors century after century seems to me nothing short of deliberate. You have encouraged these malicious incompetents, who have made your working life a shambles. You have accepted without question their senseless orders. You have allowed them to fill your workspace with dangerous and unproven machines. You could have stopped them. All you had to say was "No". You have no spine. You have no pride. You are no longer an asset to the company. I will, however, be generous. You will be granted two years to show me some improvement in your work. If at the end of that time you are still unwilling to make a go of it... you're fired. That will be all. You may return to your labours.


Movie

Good evening, London. Allow me first to apologize for this interruption. I do, like many of you, appreciate the comforts of every day routine — the security of the familiar, the tranquility of repetition.
I enjoy them as much as any bloke. But in the spirit of commemoration, whereby those important events of the past, usually associated with someone's death or the end of some awful bloody struggle, are celebrated with a nice holiday, I thought we could mark this November the 5th, a day that is sadly no longer remembered, by taking some time out of our daily lives to sit down and have a little chat. There are of course those who do not want us to speak.
I suspect even now, orders are being shouted into telephones, and men with guns will soon be on their way. Why? Because while the truncheon may be used in lieu of conversation, words will always retain their power. Words offer the means to meaning, and for those who will listen, the enunciation of truth. And the truth is, there is something terribly wrong with this country, isn't there? Cruelty and injustice, intolerance and oppression. And where once you had the freedom to object, to think and speak as you saw fit, you now have censors and systems of surveillance coercing your conformity and soliciting your submission.
How did this happen? Who's to blame? Well certainly there are those more responsible than others, and they will be held accountable, but again truth be told, if you're looking for the guilty, you need only look into a mirror. I know why you did it. I know you were afraid. Who wouldn't be? War, terror, disease. There were a myriad of problems which conspired to corrupt your reason and rob you of your common sense. Fear got the best of you, and in your panic you turned to the now high chancellor, Adam Sutler. He promised you order, he promised you peace, and all he demanded in return was your silent, obedient consent. Last night I sought to end that silence. Last night I destroyed the Old Bailey, to remind this country of what it has forgotten. More than 400 years ago a great citizen wished to embed the fifth of November forever in our memory.
His hope was to remind the world that fairness, justice, and freedom are more than words, they are perspectives. So if you've seen nothing, if the crimes of this government remain unknown to you then I would suggest that you allow the fifth of November to pass unmarked.
But if you see what I see, if you feel as I feel, and if you would seek as I seek, then I ask you to stand beside me one year from tonight, outside the gates of Parliament, and together we shall give them a fifth of November that shall never, ever be forgot.


Despite the differences, both teach us to remember...
Vox Populi, Vox Dei.

Okay. How's actually read the graphic novel, because everyone needs to beg forgiveness to Alan Moore for citing that shipwreck of a movie based on his work of genius.

[Archangel Yuki]

Oh, boop me for forgetting! I love V for Vendetta. It's one of my all time favorite movies and graphic novels. Personally, I prefer the comic to the movie, even though I read it only -after- I saw the movie. Yeah, I'm on -that- fan-boat.

That's just fine; i'm on the same fanboat. I still regulary watch the movie and read the comic, because the movie is what started it for me. It is, however, nothing like the comic.

Also, Beserk, for the sake of the page could you please not quote the entire OP?

[factotum]

Okay. How's actually read the graphic novel, because everyone needs to beg forgiveness to Alan Moore for citing that shipwreck of a movie based on his work of genius.

I'd have to disagree there...the V for Vendetta movie really wasn't that bad. If you really want to talk about a shipwreck of a movie based (loosely) on an Alan Moore comic, your ire should be firmly aimed at The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen...

[good_lookin_gus]

It wasn't a terrible action movie, but it gutted the intended message and nuanced storytelling, and then took a dump on them. I fully sympathize with Mr. Moore's resentment.

[Dienekes]

I'd have to disagree there...the V for Vendetta movie really wasn't that bad. If you really want to talk about a shipwreck of a movie based (loosely) on an Alan Moore comic, your ire should be firmly aimed at The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen...

Plotholes plotholes plotholes

Don't get me wrong. I enjoy the movie (I'll watch it tonight in honor of the 5th actually) but really this sucker has a major one. And, you know, twisting Moore's original message around to make the characters more acceptable even though that was the freaking point.

[The Tygre]

Let's see what I have memorized:

"They say that there's a broken light
for every soul on broadway
Theay say that life's a game
and then they take away the board
They give you masks and costumes,
and an outline of the story
Then leave you all to improvise
this Vicious Cabaret.

At last the 1989 show
*can't remember*


Ooh, close! You've definitely got more than me;

"They say that there's a light
For every broken heart on broadway
They say that life's a game
And then they take the board away
They give you masks and costumes
And an outline of the story
Then leave you all to improvise
Their vicious cabaret!

At last the 1998 Show!
*something something something...*

That's all I got.

[Icewalker]

Good stuff. My friend showed up to school today in his V mask.

I really should read it sometime. :smallredface:

Loved the movie: even if it is a mess of the original story, and in comparison ruins the message and all that, it's a good movie itself, it's just an awful translation from comic to movie. Which I can accept, I expect I'll enjoy the comic much more, once I get to it. Need to finish Sandman first though.

[Archangel Yuki]

And, you know, twisting Moore's original message around to make the characters more acceptable even though that was the freaking point.

This. This times 100. I really enjoy the message in the comics, but the change from the comic to the movie kills me. I try to imagine the movie as a seperate entity altogether. Or it's Moores idea, but from another dimension.

[ninja_penguin]

I'll admit that I haven't read the comic book yet, but I enjoyed the movie. Speaking with somebody who had seen both, they said that they really liked the movie if instead of wanting a complete film version on the comic book, you look at the movie as a take on America at the time.

I haven't read the comic book again, so I don't know if that's rubbish or not. Either way, I enjoyed the movie, and I want to find the comic book sometime.

[JonestheSpy]

Ooh, close! You've definitely got more than me;

"They say that there's a light
For every broken heart on broadway
They say that life's a game
And then they take the board away
They give you masks and costumes
And an outline of the story
Then leave you all to improvise
Their vicious cabaret!

At last the 1998 Show!
*something something something...*

That's all I got.



Hey, are y'all quoting from the book or have you heard the single that David Jay recorded of it? I saw it heard it once years ago, can't even remember where - didn't really sound like I'd heard in my head at all, but still nifty.

[Dienekes]

This. This times 100. I really enjoy the message in the comics, but the change from the comic to the movie kills me.

You know, it speaks volumes to the literary quality of the comic when it actually gets you to sympathize with the Hitler stand in. Not agree with by any stretch of the imagination (feel I have to cover my ass before someone calls me out on this), but understand.

[osyluth]

It's really cool how the plot draws on an actual historical event. There was actually an attempt to blow up Parliament on November 5th, 1605. V's mask is supposed to look like Guy Fawkes, one of the conspirators.

[BRC]

Actually KNOWING about Guy Fawkes means I find it very odd in the Movie, when V takes him as a symbol for freedom (If I remember correctly, the Gunpowder Treason was people thinking that the govt hadn't been oppressing Catholics enough). Anarchist V from the book (I havn't read it, yes I know, I should be ashamed) I can understand liking the whole "When you don't like what the government is doing, Blow Stuff Up" thing.

[Dienekes]

Actually KNOWING about Guy Fawkes means I find it very odd in the Movie, when V takes him as a symbol for freedom (If I remember correctly, the Gunpowder Treason was people thinking that the govt hadn't been oppressing Catholics enough). Anarchist V from the book (I havn't read it, yes I know, I should be ashamed) I can understand liking the whole "When you don't like what the government is doing, Blow Stuff Up" thing.

I'm fairly certain he was a Catholic trying to blow up the Protestant parliament.

[BRC]

I'm fairly certain he was a Catholic trying to blow up the Protestant parliament.
*Checks Wikipedia*
So it was. We studied some Protestants who thought they weren't oppressing the Catholics enough, I guess I got stuff turned around in my head.

[Fifty-Eyed Fred]

It didn't help that James I's government was terribly mismanaged in general, or that James was a Protestant himself. There were many grievances against him; the one that tried to blow him and Parliament up simply happened to come from a group of Catholic gentry.

(It's surprising how many of his problems came simply from him being trained as a Scottish king instead of an English one. His idea of English kingship was very questionable.)

[pita]

Okay. How's actually read the graphic novel, because everyone needs to beg forgiveness to Alan Moore for citing that shipwreck of a movie based on his work of genius.

I actually forgot the fifth of november. It's now the sixth, and I'm celebrating my sister's birthday.
And this pisses me off. It's not a brilliant movie, or a masterpiece, or the best possible movie that could come out of the GN (Like Watchmen, an unfilmable GN made into a Roger-Ebert-4-Star movie), or a good movie to come out of the GN, but it's not a shipwreck, nor is it any bad. It has some very good acting, a good plot, and it conserves some of the best parts of the novel in ways that I think even Alan Moore, the eternal critic of everything not 100% written by himself, would be happy. The scene when Natalie Portman is imprisoned is better than in the GN, at least with the lesbian film actress whose name I really can't remember.

[WitchSlayer]

V for Vendetta is the first real non-newspaper comic I ever read. It's what got me so hardcore into comics in the first place, even if I only read it after the movie I can't thank it enough.

[Dante & Vergil]

I loved the movie as well, but that's because I haven't read the novel yet. You guys make it sound pretty dang good.

[Berserk Monk]

I saw the film V for Vendetta for the first time last night after reading the comic several months back. I died a little last night.

[Pocketa]

I watched the film again, but hated the music used in the credits. My friends all prefer the comic. I always get teary during the dance scene and etc., so teasing ensued. Painting nails with friends with popcorn in front of a huge TV and watching V for Vendetta as a girl's night out sort of thing was wicked. We didn't have school today, you see.

Some guy showed up in my class in a V mask though. I was able to recite the Verbose phrase and he couldn't, so I was disappointed. I will be an elitist about that. I get more V cred by being able to recite that than the guy in my class did for spending $5 on a mask. Plus, the guy tried to explain the movie and missed the whole point, calling me a troll when I was able to recite the phrase and song. My girls are the best though, and totally backed me up.

[jmbrown]

The movie was good in its own right. I'm probably a single voice amongst the storm when it comes to adaptions but IMO the whole point is to present the original material in a different light. If I wanted to enjoy the story as it was originally told I would (now work with me here) read the original story.

I watch movies for a more visual experience I can't otherwise get through text. Some stories translate poorly to cinema and Alan Moore's multi-layered writing is one of them.

With that said, the best parts of V was Eric Finch's slow decline to madness and the incredibly awesome reveal when V shows he has a sister Fate computer and types "I love you" to the mentally declining Susan.

The one thing I've never been a fan of with Moore's writing is how he uses rape as a plot point.

Every. Single. Story.

[Cespenar]

What really gets me is that even though works of high literary quality is admittedly hard to convert into a movie, some of the fumbles in the movies were so uncalled for that it couldn't have anything to do with "the difficulty of a conversion".

For example, the Matrix scene in V, and the fights in Watchmen in general (especially the prison one). They felt so stupid and out of place that I just stared at the screen blankly for a while.

And these are the action scenes. I'm not even going into the "totally destroying the original work's point" stuff.

Though, to be frank, if you force yourself to forget about the original works, the movies are actually entertaining, even though hardly being half the shadow of the novels' awesomeness.

[jmbrown]

What really gets me is that even though works of high literary quality is admittedly hard to convert into a movie, some of the fumbles in the movies were so uncalled for that it couldn't have anything to do with "the difficulty of a conversion".

For example, the Matrix scene in V, and the fights in Watchmen in general (especially the prison one). They felt so stupid and out of place that I just stared at the screen blankly for a while.

And these are the action scenes. I'm not even going into the "totally destroying the original work's point" stuff.

Though, to be frank, if you force yourself to forget about the original works, the movies are actually entertaining, even though hardly being half the shadow of the novels' awesomeness.

Oh, I agree that action scenes in American Hollywood movies tend to be terrible. Slow motion bores the crap out of me when it's used to highlight unimportant things (the whole 30 second knife fight at the end of V stretched into 5 minutes). The fights in Watchmen were too over-the-top because even though every character except Dr. Manhattan is human (exceptional, but still human) they decided to give them an almost super human level of strength and agility by effortlessly breaking bones and leaping 10' distances from a standing position.

This is more of a director's issue or whoever decides how fights should play out. I really don't need to see flashy effects to enjoy a fight scene. Zooming in and slowing down as the protagonist throws a punch puts me to sleep.

[Dienekes]

What really gets me is that even though works of high literary quality is admittedly hard to convert into a movie, some of the fumbles in the movies were so uncalled for that it couldn't have anything to do with "the difficulty of a conversion".

Generally I agree, my problem with the V movie however is it has the largest bit of fridge logic I have seen in a serious film in a long time.

[The Tygre]

The one thing I've never been a fan of with Moore's writing is how he uses rape as a plot point.

Every. Single. Story.

Rape: It's what's for dinner.

Sorry, I was just reminded of a god-awful fan fiction there. I have to agree with you on this. More annoyingly, this seems to be a rising trend in comic books. It's like rape is taking over the usual 'parents-killed' backstory. Or they're combined. Horribly. Kudos to Dr. Light, though, for his promotion from one of the goofiest DC villains to 'Dr. Rape' or 'Rape Lad' or whatever the Hell he is now. I just can't watch Teen Titan reruns the same anymore...

[chiasaur11]

Rape: It's what's for dinner.

Sorry, I was just reminded of a god-awful fan fiction there. I have to agree with you on this. More annoyingly, this seems to be a rising trend in comic books. It's like rape is taking over the usual 'parents-killed' backstory. Or they're combined. Horribly. Kudos to Dr. Light, though, for his promotion from one of the goofiest DC villains to 'Dr. Rape' or 'Rape Lad' or whatever the Hell he is now. I just can't watch Teen Titan reruns the same anymore...

Not always.

Some issues of 1963 have no rape at all!

[JonestheSpy]

The one thing I've never been a fan of with Moore's writing is how he uses rape as a plot point.

Every. Single. Story.

Wait, wait, let me think...

Promethea? Nope.
Top Ten? Nope.
The famous "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow" Superman story? Nope.
DR and Quinch's Totally Awesome Guide to Life? Nope - though almost every other concievable crime.
Miracleman? Nope.
Tom Strong? Nope.

I do wish people would refrain from making such clearly inaccurate assertions of absolutes.

[chiasaur11]

Wait, wait, let me think...

Miracleman? Nope.


You mean yup.

Remember Bates?

[JonestheSpy]

You mean yup.

Remember Bates?

It's been awhile - oh, right, now I remember. Yup, you got me there.

Still, my point stands - and I didn't even include Moore's story in the 1982 BJ and the Bear Annual !

[skywalker]

I'll admit that I haven't read the comic book yet, but I enjoyed the movie. Speaking with somebody who had seen both, they said that they really liked the movie if instead of wanting a complete film version on the comic book, you look at the movie as a take on America at the time.

You know, people always say this, but the fact remains that as much as the Wachowskis meant the film to be about certain concurrent governments, so did Moore write the original work as a commentary on a specific, concurrent government.

So I don't go in for the whining that "the original message was perverted." Of course it was. If you get very specific, it gets rather dated, if you ask me. Now, the general message of the book, altho the movie softens it a bit and takes a lot of the teeth out of it, seems to be maintained.


Anarchist V from the book (I havn't read it, yes I know, I should be ashamed) I can understand liking the whole "When you don't like what the government is doing, Blow Stuff Up" thing.

While we're making gross generalizations, that's a doozy about anarchists...


Generally I agree, my problem with the V movie however is it has the largest bit of fridge logic I have seen in a serious film in a long time.

Alright, you've got us all on the hook, what is it?


Wait, wait, let me think...

Promethea? Nope.
Top Ten? Nope.
The famous "Whatever Happened to the Man of Tomorrow" Superman story? Nope.
DR and Quinch's Totally Awesome Guide to Life? Nope - though almost every other concievable crime.
Miracleman? Nope.
Tom Strong? Nope.

I do wish people would refrain from making such clearly inaccurate assertions of absolutes.

V for Vendetta
Watchmen
The Killing Joke
Lost Girls...

And I'm not even a big fan. Maybe it's not in every story, but it is in a lot of the major ones...

My friends and I celebrated this last night. Watched the film of course, and then we burned an effigy. Since we're Americans, we couldn't really burn Guy, could we? So instead, we apparently burned James I in effigy.

[Dienekes]

Heh, you didn't know? I thought it was common knowledge, that's why I didn't explicitly spell it out. Well now I look like I'm being a cryptic douche.

It's simple really. Sutler gained political dominance through his use of the virus and with his rise to power he was able to use his demagoguery to gather up the undesirables and place them in concentrations camps.

However the virus was created by using the undesirables in the concentration camps. This would imply that either 1) Sutler sent the virus back in time to complete his evil plan or 2) Norsefyre (or a political party with the exact same political views) was already in a position to control the government enough to back such an extremist and discriminatory agenda without reprisal from an opposing political party. This would then make the virus outbreak completely pointless since they were already in power.

[skywalker]

It's simple really. Sutler gained political dominance through his use of the virus and with his rise to power he was able to use his demagoguery to gather up the undesirables and place them in concentrations camps.

However the virus was created by using the undesirables in the concentration camps. This would imply that either 1) Sutler sent the virus back in time to complete his evil plan or 2) Norsefyre (or a political party with the exact same political views) was already in a position to control the government enough to back such an extremist and discriminatory agenda without reprisal from an opposing political party. This would then make the virus outbreak completely pointless since they were already in power.

I see. I believe you are incorrect. He already had control of the government, but needed something (hey, a plague!) to bring him popular support for his policies. While he may have had control of bureaucracy, he would not have had popular support for his policies without the virus. Do you see? They probably didn't start out as quite so totalitarian. You can be in power, but not in total control. The transition often requires a populace cowed, frequently by some drummed up threat.

[littlequietguy]

I forgot about this! This calls for a annual re-reading!

[turkishproverb]

V for Vendetta
Watchmen
The Killing Joke
Lost Girls...

And I'm not even a big fan. Maybe it's not in every story, but it is in a lot of the major ones...

My friends and I celebrated this last night. Watched the film of course, and then we burned an effigy. Since we're Americans, we couldn't really burn Guy, could we? So instead, we apparently burned James I in effigy.

Erm... the rape in Killing joke is debatable at best. Not seen on screen, and the violence alluded to could be alot of things aside from that. No sexual aspect is suggested.

On the other hand, Tom Strong had an offscreen rape (Tom, drugged and unconscious, giving away his "genetic material" to the Ingrid Weiss to help create a son) Issues 4-7 had the storyline in question.

[JonestheSpy]

Erm... the rape in Killing joke is debatable at best. Not seen on screen, and the violence alluded to could be alot of things aside from that. No sexual aspect is suggested.

On the other hand, Tom Strong had an offscreen rape (Tom, drugged and unconscious, giving away his "genetic material" to the Ingrid Weiss to help create a son) Issues 4-7 had the storyline in question.

I actually thought of both of those, and think they're both 'iffy-but-arguable'.

[turkishproverb]

Well, one causes a son's conception, so I'm not getting the "iffy" on it, but glad i wasn't the only one whom thought of it.