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ShadowsGrnEyes
2009-11-05, 01:44 PM
ok so a party member and the gm got in an argument last night.

Three questions.

Is hiding in combat a standard action?

Can you Initiate a hide in combat as a move action?

If you have improved Deversion can you, bluff and hide and still take a standard action in the same turn?

There was a good deal of argument with regards to the phrase "as part of a move". One side argued that it simply meant you can continue to hide while moving, the other side argued that it meant you may initiate a hide as your move action thus still use your standard action.

reefwood
2009-11-05, 02:04 PM
I'm not an expert, but I will try to answer two of your questions, and I'm sure other folks can help with the last one.


1) Is hiding in combat a standard action?

2) Can you Initiate a hide in combat as a move action?

From reading the rules, the act of hiding is usually part of a move action. I can see this as being handled a few different ways, but it looks like it never takes a standard action to hide. However, the rules do state that "sniping" requires a move action after a ranged attack.

The rules also state that you can make a Bluff check (as a standard action) to create a diversion to hide. After you make the Bluff check, you would make the Hide check. Of course, you still need some place or some way (cover or concealment) to hide.

EDIT: To actually answer the first question, hiding in combat depends on whether or not the enemy sees you. If the enemy doesn't see you, you can hide as part of a move action. If the enemy DOES see you, you have to make a Bluff check (standard action) to distract them and then make a Hide check as part of movement (move action) to reach the hiding spot.

reefwood
2009-11-05, 02:15 PM
ok so a party member and the gm got in an argument last night.

There was a good deal of argument with regards to the phrase "as part of a move". One side argued that it simply meant you can continue to hide while moving, the other side argued that it meant you may initiate a hide as your move action thus still use your standard action.

As to you specific example... the first side is correct in that you can hide while moving, but it must be done at half-speed (or at a higher speed with the appropriate penalty outlined in the rules), and there needs to be cover or concealment, AND no one can be observing you. The moving is your move action and the Hide check is simply a part of it.

If someone is observing you, as might be the case in combat, you can duck out of sight, but everyone still knows where you went. That's when you can make a Bluff check (standard action) to distract observers, but the hiding spot should be within 1 ft per rank in Hide (DM discretion, I guess, as the rules aren't solid on this), and this kind of Hide check has a -10 penalty.

The other/second side would be correct for "sniping" since it takes a move action to hide after making a ranged attack, but the standard action that round was already used up by the attack.

EDIT: I accidentally mistyped "the first side is incorrect" when I first made this post but have fixed that typo, so the post reads correctly now.

Curmudgeon
2009-11-05, 05:29 PM
Is hiding in combat a standard action? No. Hiding almost always takes no action.
Action: Usually none. Normally, you make a Hide check as part of movement, so it doesn’t take a separate action. Creating a diversion with a Bluff check normally takes a standard action, though. This satisfies one of the two Hide requirements: not being observed. Generally you'll use a move of some kind (not necessarily a move action) to get to a place that offers cover/concealment; that satisfies the other Hide requirement.

Can you Initiate a hide in combat as a move action? Again, Hide itself generally takes no action. If you're already in a place which offers cover/concealment, and nobody is observing you, you can Hide with no action required. In the case that nobody is watching you and you just need to get to cover/concealment, you can Hide as part of your movement to that location.

If you have improved Deversion can you, bluff and hide and still take a standard action in the same turn?
Yes, but only if you're capable of getting to a place that offers cover/concealment without using a move action. If you're already there, or you could get there with a 5' step, that would work.

Some class abilities provide other options. The Hide in Plain Sight ability of the Shadowdancer and Assassin classes allow them to Hide without worrying about either of the two standard requirements; there just neads to be a shadow nearby (not to Hide in; as this HiPS is a Supernatural ability the shadow merely needs to exist). So a Shadowdancer can walk right up to you and Hide in your face. Then they can attack you and Hide again while doing so. (That second check takes a steep penalty, but it's perfectly legal.)