3.5 The Hypothetical (A "reject reality and substitute their own" base class)[Peach]

[OldTrees]

This class is in serious need of help balancing it (I have no clue how powerful it is)

The Hypothetical

Hypotheticals are individuals that can connect to the mental plane. This connection combined with their abnormally strong will power allows them to mold the mental plane, reject reality, substitute their own and even impose their reality on others. To strengthen their will they rely on certain herbs (post 3) whose long term affect is to strengthen the connection of the user to the mental plane.

Mental Plane acts like a semi stable Limbo (changes less erratically naturally, but use the mind over matter rules as stated in post 2)

Game Rule Information
Hypotheticals have the following game statistics.
Abilities: Wisdom is vital for a hypothetical because it is the key ability for autohypnosis, second would be Constitution for health or Intelligence for skills.
Alignment: any (Hypotheticals require disciplined but creative minds so extremely Lawful or Chaotic hypotheticals are uncommon)
Hit Die: D8
Starting money: 4d4x10gp

Class Skills
The hypothetical's class skills (and the key ability for each skill) are Autohypnosis (Wis), Bluff (Cha), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Disable Device (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Knowledge (the planes), Listen (Wis), Open Locks (Int), Profession (Wis), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis) and Spot (Wis).
Skill Points at 1st Level: (6 + Int modifier) x 4.
Skill Points at Each Level: 6 + Int modifier


The Hypothetical
{table=head]Level|Base Attack Bonus|Fort Save|Ref Save|Will Save|Special

1st|
+0|
+0|
+0|
+2|Hyperfocusing, Trapfinding

2nd|
+1|
+0|
+0|
+3|Conduit, Herbalist, Platonic Investigator

3rd|
+2|
+1|
+1|
+3|

4th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|Larger Conduit

5th|
+3|
+1|
+1|
+4|

6th|
+4|
+2|
+2|
+5|

7th|
+5|
+2|
+2|
+5|

8th|
+6|
+2|
+2|
+6|Dual Nature

9th|
+6|
+3|
+3|
+6|

10th|
+7|
+3|
+3|
+7|

11th|
+8|
+3|
+3|
+7|

12th|
+9|
+4|
+4|
+8|

13th|
+9|
+4|
+4|
+8|

14th|
+10|
+4|
+4|
+9|Mental Projection

15th|
+11|
+5|
+5|
+9|

16th|
+12|
+5|
+5|
+10|

17th|
+12|
+5|
+5|
+10|

18th|
+13|
+6|
+6|
+11|

19th|
+14|
+6|
+6|
+11|

20th|
+15|
+6|
+6|
+12|Mental Nature [/table]

All Fractions are summed and then rounded down.

Weapon and Armor Proficiencies (Ex.)
A Hypothetical is proficient with all Simple and 1 Martial Weapon, Light Shields, Light and Medium Armor

Trapfinding (Ex.)
At 1st level, a Hypothetical gains the ability to use the Search skill to locate traps with a DC higher than 20, and can use Disable Device to bypass a trap or disarm magical traps. See the rogue class feature (PH 50).

Hyperfocusing (Ex.)
At 1st level, a Hypothetical gains the feat Skill Focus (Autohypnosis). At 2nd level a Hypothetical gains an additional ½ their class level + ½ their HD as a competence bonus to Autohypnosis when using the Conduit ability or when attempting to mold the mental plane.

Conduit (Ex.)
At 2nd level, a Hypothetical gains the ability to enable or enforce the interaction between a physical entity and the mental plane. While a Hypothetical is partially or fully on the mental plane, they can guide others to the juxtaposition of the planes. As a Move Action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity, a Hypothetical can make a part of the mental plane in synch with a target. First the Hypothetical makes a Autohypnosis Check (see below for Conduit Autohypnosis DCs). If the Hypothetical succeeded on the Autohypnosis check, then the target must make a Will Save (DC 10 + ¼Class Level + ¼HD + charisma modifier) if the target fails its save (intentionally or unintentionally), then the part of the mental plane is in synch with the target. The conduit ability can be disrupted just like spell casting can on a failed concentration check.

Parts of the Mental Plane come in three flavors: space (see mental bridge example below), effects (fireball), and subjects(creatures on the mental plane).

“In synch” means that the target treats that location in space or effect or creature on the mental plane to be on the material plane (e.g. A bridge on the mental plane spanning a chasm on the material plane).

Conduit Autohypnosis DCs
Spells (21+ 4 x Spell Level)
Space [1 5ft. cube] (24 + 1/HD of target + 3/additional 5ft cube)
Subjects (1 creature) (18+2CR)

Herbalist (Ex.)
At 2nd level, a Hypothetical starts to rely more on the connection strengthening herbs. A Hypothetical is assumed to always be under the effects of one and only one herb. (see post 3)

Platonic Investigator (Ex.)
At 2nd level, a Hypothetical can temporarily interact with both the physical and mental planes. As a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, a Hypothetical can partially exist on both planes for 1 round per class level + 1 round per 3 HD. A Hypothetical can use this ability 1 + charisma modifier times per day + 1 additional time per day per 4 HD.

Conceptual Body (Ex.)
At 3rd level, a Hypothetical begins to become less substantial as they transform into a mental object also known as an idea. At 3rd level a Hypothetical gains a 10% insubstantial miss chance. At 5th level and every odd level thereafter the miss chance increases by 10% to a maximum of 90% at 19th level.

Larger Conduit (Ex.)
At 4th level, a Hypothetical can use their Conduit ability to simultaneously synch up multiple people at the same time. As part of the same move action a Hypothetical can synch up more than one target. Each target beyond half the Hypothetical’s class level adds one to the Autohypnosis DC and subtracts one from the Will Save DC.

Dual Nature (Ex.)
At 8th level, a Hypothetical is partially on the material plane and partially on the mental plane. As such, they can interact with both planes naturally. This improves upon and replaces Platonic Investigator.

Mental Projection (Ex.)
At 14th level, a Hypothetical can create and temporarily inhabit a corporeal body on the mental plane. They leave behind their physical body when they do this. If their physical body is dead when the duration of Mental Projection ends (by running out of duration or by dismissal) then they die. As a full round action that provokes attacks of opportunity, a Hypothetical can partially exist on both planes for 1 minute per class level + 1 minute per 3 HD. A Hypothetical can use this ability 1 + charisma modifier times per day + 1 additional time per day per 4 HD.

Mental Nature (Ex.)
At 20th level, a Hypothetical now exists purely on the mental plane. This improves upon and replaces Mental Projection. The Hypothetical no longer has a physical body. They can still interact with the material plane through their Conduit ability.

[OldTrees]

The Mental Plane

Planar traits:
The mental plane is a moldable version of the material plane, as such it tends to but might not look like the material plane. It also shares the planar traits of the material plane except that it is moldable by strong wills (see below) and an entity on the mental plane can see the material plane as long as there is nothing to stop them in either plane (walls,darkness …).

Planar Access:
It is coexistent with the material plane and separate from all other planes and demiplanes. It cannot be plane shifted into however the gate spell cast on the material plane would allow travel into the mental plane.

Molding the Plane:
Molding the plane comes in two versions: Spell-like effects and transmuting the objects in the plane
Molding the plane is a Standard Action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity but can be disrupted like spellcasting. To mold the plane the entity makes an Autohypnosis check vs a DC dependent on what they are trying to accomplish.

Spell-like effects:
DC 31 + 4 x spell level

Transmuting Objects:
There are four components to the difficulty of transmuting an object: Complexity, Nature, Size and Value. Each of these difficulties comes with levels of difficulty. The levels of difficulties are shown in table 1-1. The lowest level does not increase the base DC of 20. Each level of difficulty beyond that will raise the difficulty by the stated amount in table 1-2. When the starting state and the final states of a transmutation have different difficulty levels use the highest difficulty levels. A rough sketch of the difficulty levels for complexity, nature and volume is shown in tables 1-3 through 1-5.


Table 1-1
{table=head]Difficulty|Levels

Complexity|Simple – Basic – Easy – Mediocre – Hard – Complex – Fiendish

Nature(Number of Elements)|1,2,3,4,5,6

Nature(Number of conflicting pairs)|0,1,2,3

Size|125 cubic feet, twice or half the previous volume

Value(Magical/Mundane)|Supernatural/Mundane, Minor Magic/Masterwork, Magical/Superior, Great Magic/Supreme, High Magic/Ledgendary[/table]



Table 1-2
{table=head]Difficulty|DC increase per difficulty level
Size (1 5ft. cube)|x2 (or /2) volume [+6 DC]
Complexity (Simple)|+1 complexity [+6 DC]
Nature (1 element)|+1 element [+5 DC]
Nature (0 opposed pairs)|+1 conflict [+5 DC]
Value (Mundane)|+1 category [+10 DC]
[/table]

Table 1-3
{table=head]Complexity|example of levels of complexity
Simple|a regular geometric solid
Basic|a flat faced solid
Easy|a simple machine (lever, pulley …)
Mediocre|a combination of a few simple machines (a wrench)
Hard|a watch
Complex|a Rube Goldberg machine
Fiendish|a mad science device
[/table]

Table 1-4
{table=head]Nature|DC increase|example
1 element, 0 conflicts|+0|fire
2 elements, 0 conflicts|+5|air and fire
2 elements, 1 conflict|+10|air and earth
3 elements, 0 conflicts|+10|air, fire and positive
3 elements, 1 conflict|+15|earth, fire and water
4 elements, 1 conflicts|+20|air, fire, positive and water
4 elements, 2 conflicts|+25|air, earth, fire and water
5 elements, 2 conflicts|+30|air, earth, fire, negative and water
6 elements, 3 conflicts|+40|air, earth, fire, negative, positive and water
[/table]

Table 1-5
{table=head]Value|(value ranges)
Supernatural/Mundane|0 – 150gp
Minor Magic/Masterwork|150 – 1000gp
Magical/Superb|1000 – 7500gp
Great Magic/Supreme|7500 – 28000gp
High Magic/Legendary|28000gp – 200000gp
[/table]

[OldTrees]

Herbs:

It is assumed that a Hypothetical is always under the influence of one and only one herb.
Different herbs have different effects

Neutral: no other effect other than strengthening the connection
You do not notice any perceptible difference

Focus: +1Will saves and concentration checks, -1 spot and listen
Your vision narrows and you become more focused by ignoring distractions

Distraction: +1 spot and listen, -1 Will saves and concentration checks
You begin to see things in a new way, everything is distracting and you have trouble focusing

Speed: base land speed +5ft and +1 initiative, -1 attack and reflexes
You speed up but lose precision

Bull’s-eye: +1 attack and reflexes, -1 initiative and base land speed -5ft
You become more precise but lose speed

[Glimbur]

Herbalist is really weird and interacts poorly with multi-classing. Does it really make sense for a Hypothetical 2/Fighter 18 to spend half of 760,000 on herbs instead of most of it on arms and armor like a mostly fighter would want to?

I wouldn't worry about breaking WBL. A suit of plate armor weighs 50 lbs. A 5x5x5 cube of Iron weighs 491 lbs, assuming I converted correctly. This is 1/10 volume, which is between +18 and +24 DC. Full Plate is probably mediocre complexity, so that's +24 DC. It's... sort of one element in the D&D sense, and close to one element on the periodic table (steel != iron, but it's close). There's no conflicting elements, and there are two category bumps in value for +20 DC. So a completely mundane suit of full plate is a DC 82 Autohypnosis check. I wouldn't worry about players breaking WBL using the mental plane.

Trying to actually make an item is really difficult both on the player and on the character. If I, say, want to make a 5' cube of fire out of a cube of air, though, that's easy. There's just the penalty for involving two elements, maybe. The only question is the value of fire. So I could make 5' cubes of fire, water, earth, or air at only DC 20(or 25) which is not too hard. This is all well and good until we realize you don't have the standard clause about summoned/created things being required to be on the ground, or we look at the damage for being covered in fire or worse acid(it's a plane).

So simultaneously the system is bad for some cool effects (making a sword out of your mind is very difficult) and bad at balancing damage output (20d6 of acid is doable reliably by level 1 (or 4) on the mental plane.

I don't like the size modifier assuming a 5' cube and making it more difficult to be smaller than that. Complexity already covers making items, and Value already covers making cool/expensive items. This is just a symptom of the system being too complicated.

How do I get to the Mental Plane as a Hypothetical, if I can only get there via Gate?

[OldTrees]

Herbalist is really weird and interacts poorly with multi-classing. Does it really make sense for a Hypothetical 2/Fighter 18 to spend half of 760,000 on herbs instead of most of it on arms and armor like a mostly fighter would want to?

Good point, I was intending that only half the wealth of Hypothetical class levels but, as you show afterward, I think you are right that it doesn't need that balance.



This is all well and good until we realize you don't have the standard clause about summoned/created things being required to be on the ground, or we look at the damage for being covered in fire or worse acid(it's a plane).


It doesn't have the summoning clause because it isn't on the material plane, the person that you synch up will treat that part of the mental as if it were on the material but it is still on the mental. (also acid is Water + Earth paraelement)


Hypotheticals get to the mental plane through their class features (Platonic Investigator, Dual Nature, Mental Projection and Mental Nature)

The smaller transmutations being harder was to prevent synching pebbles into veins. The 125 cubic feet was a guess at a good starting point. It seems not to be a good choice. Should I remove it entirely or change it to something smaller?

[Glimbur]

There are some checks and balances I missed the first time. You need the enemy to fail a Will save so you can pull them onto the Mental Plane. So, first round of combat as a low level Hypothetical I straddle the planes. Next turn I try to pull the enemies onto it, which gives them a Will save (I'd estimate DC 13* at second level (10+2/4+2/4+3 from Cha, fractions are generally rounded down)). If they fail this not very difficult will save then I can turn their sword into a 5' cube of fire. Or negative energy. This looks like a save-or-die that can only start working on turn three of combat. Surprise rounds don't help because we have to start the process with a full-round action.

*As an aside, I'd suggest making it 1/2 Class level instead of 1/4 class level +1/4 Hit Dice to simplify the math and make it more effective due to D&D rounding.

Say instead next turn I bring the party (or at least some of them) onto the Mental plane. If I want to cast a first level buff, like Bless, I have to make a DC 35 Autohypnosis check. This is very difficult at level 2. But the Trapsmith gets Haste as a first level spell, so since I can draw from anyone's spell list I want to I get the Archivist problem of casting spells before they're intended to. A mid-level Hypothetical can cast Lesser Restoration from the Paladin list to patch up the party after combat... but I'd rather have a wand and a different character.

Maybe they're useful out of combat. Say there's a locked door. A second level Hypothetical can probably bring it onto the Mental plane and therefore turn it into Air. If there's a 5' chasm to cross, a moderate level Hypothetical can probably make a bridge. Of course, a first level commoner could just jump it.

There aren't very many class features... your ability to play with the Mental Plane scales with level but it requires ad-hoc rulings mid game. It's kind of like the summoner that applies templates mid-game in that it takes a lot of time and thought mid-game. You could reduce this by agreeing ahead of time on some common shapes to form things in to.

The (Ex) miss chance is a little much. It justifies taking this class... in gestalt. Then I would rely on other abilities and pull out Autohypnosis when I don't have a better idea.

What do they do at level 1?

[Hyooz]

90% miss chance? Seriously? The only thing with something similar to that is a non-manifested ghost and they can't effect the material plane until they manifest down to a 50% miss chance, which is STILL really powerful.

I'll let Glimbur handle the more mechanical aspects of it all, since this is so ludicrously complicated a system for playing a class that doesn't seem to have a defined role of any kind. But really, at 20th level, you are effectively the cohort/familiar that everyone forgets is actually around until they're needed. So while you can almost... nothing really in combat except for the 3rd round Save or Die Glimbur spoke of then maybe some other nominal effects, and then sometimes outside of combat you can make some cool stuff for the party if you take 20s on checks. Of course, with a 90% miss chance and an appropriate AC for your level, nothing can hurt you that has to target you... but while you have 90% miss chance, you seem to lack evasion of any kind, so a few breath weapons or fireballs effect you just fine.

The first question you should ask yourself when designing a class or PrC or whatever should always be "What does this class do?" followed closely by "How well does it do that thing?". This class does a little bit of everything very slowly and very poorly.

[Milskidasith]

This is like the truenamer, but almost worse... the DCs are unbearably high to do anything. DC 31 + spell level is also weird, because it means that you can never cast 0th level spells until a certain point, but by that point (where you get a +30 item of Autohypnosis) you can reliably cast 9th level spells (or higher; this mentions nothing of metamagic, so I dunno how that works)... well, after taking a will save action to bring an enemy into the mental plane.

[OldTrees]

Thank you for all you help so far.

I think I must not be explaining things properly in the abilities.(If you can help me phrase my intent better, please do)

Some clarifications

1) You are not moving things from one plane to another, instead your are having specific targets treat an area of space as if it were the area of space on the mental plane.

The chasm is still a chasm but the target treats it as a bridge (ie can walk on the open air)

2) You gain Skill Focus (Auto Hypnosis) and gain your class level(if you single class) to autohypnosis checks

Assuming wis of 15 and assuming items of competence bonuses to Autohypnosis don't exist.

1d20+L+3(Ranks)+3(Skill Focs)+L(Hyperfocusing)+2(wis)

1d20+2L+8

so DC 31 is a 10% chance at level 2 (19+2(2)+8=31)

I was attempting to balance the at will, all spells known spellcasting by starting it as absurdly underpowered so that I could get advise on how much to increases it (it is easier to ad power then subtract)





Also I was assuming the spell level of full casters
partial casters have some conversion that I can't remember at the moment
(something like a 1st level paladin spell is equivalent to a 2nd level full caster spell)
IIRC the conversion was 1st,2nd,3rd,4th to 2rd,4th,6th,8th
If any of you could suggest a phrasing that better reflects my intent please tell me. Thank you

I do not know how balance them being able to use metamagic feats.
Either they would take the feat and apply it to any spell effect they want increasing the spell level (no metamagic reducers allowed)
Or they would be able to apply any metamagic feats they want but the level increase of each metamagic feat would be increased by +1



Also the Conceptual Body class features were just thrown in to fill dead levels. If it is to powerful it will be removed(I am not attached to it at all).



As to their role, they are at 1st level a Locksmith and continue to be through their career.
At 2nd level and above they gain more utility that they can add to their ability to get past obstacles.

In combat they do not fair as well (full round at will spellcasting of ~5 spell levels lower) if the class is underpowered then I can increase the potency of this ability


The save or die is a serious concern

Round 1: Platonic Investigator

Round 2: Full round action (Transmute and Conduit)
Transmute Air to Acid DC55
nature(3 elements [air,water,earth],1 conflict) +15
value(125 cubic feet of acid ~1500 gp?)+20
size(125 cubic feet)+0
complexity(cube)+0

Total DC 55
Autohypnosis 1d20+2L+8

Conduit
DC 24+1/HD of Target
Autohypnosis 1d20+2L+8

Will Save DC 10+1/2 class level + cha mod

The hardest of these checks is the DC55 check which has 50% probability at L = 18
(20d6 as a full round action at 18th level. reasonable no?)

[Glimbur]

It's even worse than that. I could turn a 5x5x10 rectangular prism under someone into fire. Instant ten foot pit, DC either 26 or 31 depending on if we count the number of elements that we started with or not. That's doable quite soon.
Or I just turn his sword/bow/spell components into fire, inconveniencing and hurting them.

You're also underestimating the ways to boost skills. An item familiar is +2 to Autohypnosis for every level from 3 to 20, for a total +36. A custom item of Autohypnosis +30 is pre-epic, and expensive but a good investment for a skill-based casting class. So our 20th level check is roughly +23(ranks) +6(Wis) +36 (Item Familiar) +30 (item) +4 (misc, morale or other buffs) +3 (Skill focus) +20 (class feature) for a check of +122. That lets me make Full Plate worth 200,000 trivially.

I'd suggest making the transformation last only as long as the Hypothetical concentrates on it (maybe later class features let you hold more than one thing transformed at once) and changing the DC's to be generally easier to hit. Maybe make separate rules on how much damage you can do, based on level. Maybe use the Sneak Attack progression from rogue; Eldritch Blast isn't a good model here because the foe has to fail a save before we can mess with him.

[OldTrees]

Good point about Item Familiar and the Custom item, (I am designing this for a player that does not know about them)

All elements are counted (the earth before and the fire afterwards) But you have a good point about the instant 10ft pit + fire damage.
DC 31
1d20+2L+8 (This is the figure I will use to model the DCs for the previously mentioned player. I don't know how to add in the custom item as a function of level but Item familiar added in looks like 1d20+4L+4

So for the player their is a 50% prob at L = 6
Estimated damage from pit + fire is 1d6+ 1d6 fire + 1d6 fire for each failed ref save or approximately 4d6 damage? at level 6 (is this reasonable or too powerful?)

I will need help figuring out a new equation for skill mod vs level
How do I factor the custom item into 1d20+4L+4 (I am still assuming wis 15 because I do not want to include a stat tax)
Once I have the new equation I can increase the DC accordingly.

Just a small nitpick: you can't transmute the material plane or things on the material plane (ie their weapon, themselves ...)

By the way, Thank you very much for you assistance. (This is the 2nd attempt at this kind of base class. The first one was overpowered when playtested. http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=116695)