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Jontom Xire
2009-11-06, 06:46 AM
Zombie Rampage
A game of rampaging zombies and plucky survivors for parties or forums.

Game play:

Game turns consist of a day phase and a night phase.

During the day phase zombies tear down the previous day's barricades hunting for victims that are no longer there (not too bright) and during the night phase the zombies can do one of:


Roam the streets, hunting for survivors.
Attack the barricades.
Try and sneak into the barricades and attack those hiding within.


If there are no barricades, the zombies will all roam the streets hunting for survivors.

NPC zombies decide their night action randomly. Players that have turned into zombies can decide their own night action, and choose their action in many other places where it would normally be decided randomly.

During the day phase the survivors can do one of:

Scavenge for useful items
Fortify a barricade
Heal
Be healed
Slope around the place being lazy


During the night phase the survivors can do one of:

Hide in the barricades taking pot shots at zombies (if they have a ranged weapon).
Roam the streets looking for lone zombies to fight.
Find a hiding place and hope they survive until morning.
Find a hiding place and snipe at zombies (if they have a long ranged weapon).


The game ends when:

There are no more survivors (zombies win)
There are no more zombies left (survivors win)
N turns have passed and the military arrive to rescue the survivors (survivors win)


The number of turns depends on the number of survivors and zombies at the start of the game. There will be 1d3 zombies per player. Each zombie will have 9 points which will be distributed randomly amongst the different stats with the minimum value being 1 and the maximum value being 5.

Advanced optional rules: Additional roles and win conditions such as cultists who try and get everyone infected. Or a hunter who starts the game with a gun and one round and has to kill N zombies to win.


Stats/Skills:

Players get to spend 13 points on the following stats. The maximum value for a statistic is 5, the minimum that players can allocate is 2, although some NPCs and zombies may have 1.

STRength: Affects melee combat and barricade building.
AGiLity: Affects ranged combat and stealthiness (hiding, sneaking).
CONstitution: Affects disease resistance and toughness.
INTelligence: Affects healing and searching/scavenging.

If there aren't enough players, NPCs can be rolled randomly.

If a player gets turned into a zombie, their stats remain the same but are used for different purposes:

STRength: Affects melee combat and breaking through barricades.
AGiLity: Affects dodging ranged attacks and sneaking into barricades.
CONstitution: Affects disease infectiousness (and TBD).
INTelligence: Affects searching for hidden players.

Each player gets one skill from the following list, which they lose on becoming a zombie, which gives them +1 to the corresponding action.

Barricading
Healing
Melee Combat
Scavenging
Shooting
Stealth (hiding)

Health

A living person has two damage states, one for physical damage and one for infection. Zombies have only the physical damage state.

Physical Infection
-----------------------------
Healthy Healthy
Scratched Dormant
Injured Malignant
Wounded Spreading
Dead Zombified

When a character with any sort of infection dies, they automatically become a zombie. If a character is killed by a zombie they automatically become a zombie.

Each 24 hours a player with "Malignant" or "Spreading" infection who isn't having their infection medically treated rolls 1d6. If they roll higher than their CON stat they become more infected by one state. Any player who reaches the "Zombified" infection state becomes a zombie.

If a player becomes a zombie, their stats are reduced by 1 point for each physical damage state above "Scratched", with a minimum value of 1. So if they become a zombie after death, all stats are reduced by 3. If they are "Healthy" when they turn into a zombie they become a super-zombie and all stats are increased by 1.

When taking physical damage, a survivor's toughness is his Constitution divided by 2 and rounded up. Zombies toughness is calculated in the same way but with a +1 bonus for being dead already. Toughness is used when calculating damage taken. Divide the damage total by the target's toughness to work out how many levels of physical damage the target goes up by.

Example:

Rob the Zombie (Con=3, toughness=3) gets beaten up by Bob (Con=4, toughness=2) using a baseball bat. Rob is currently undamaged. Bob ends up getting a damage total of 8. That makes 2 levels of physical damage, so Rob is now "Injured".

Next round Rob the Zombie wins and ends up with a damage total of 7. That's 3 levels of physical damage for Bob, so he goes from "Healthy" to "Wounded".

Ranged Combat:

Ranged weapons have one of two ranges. Short or long. If a short ranged weapon is used then if the target doesn't die it can initiate melee combat. If the shooter is protected by a barricade then the target will need to force it's way through the barricade first (see "Barricades") but once it does so will target the shooter. Zombies will always attack if they are not killed by the ranged attack.

Long ranged weapons mean that the shooter is far away from the target and so can make a get-away easily, assuming the target can even see the shooter that is.

Zombies lack the co-ordination and intelligence to make ranged attacks.

To make a ranged attack, the shooter and target both roll 1d6 and add their AGL stat and any appropriate to hit or defensive modifiers. If the shooter's total is higher then the target is hit. The shooter adds any damage modifiers from the weapon and this gives the damage total. The damage total is then divided by the target's toughness and that gives how many levels of physical damage the target takes.

Melee Combat

Normal melee combat consists of three rounds. Attacks through barricades are resolved in the same way as melee combat, but the number of rounds depends on the success of the attacker in breaking through the barricade.

Survivors cannot attack zombies unless at least some of the mob possess a weapon capable of harming a zombie.

Before melee combat begins, all participants may fire any short range weapons they possess at the enemy. Or at their friends. But that's probably not a very good idea.

For each melee combat, all participants on one side are decided and all the participants on the other side are decided. The STR stats of all participants, and all the "to hit" modifiers of any melee weapons being used are added together to get a total melee strength for each side.

Each round, each side then rolls 1d6 and adds the value to the total melee strength to get a "To Hit" total. The side with the highest total wins the round.

If survivors win the "To Hit" roll they may choose to push back the zombies and run away rather than deal damage. This is automatic if they do not actually possess any weapons capable of damaging zombies.

To deal damage, take the the difference in the "To Hit" totals as the base damage value. Any damage modifiers of any weapons being used by the winning side are added to the damage value to get the damage total which is then divided by the toughness of the targets (it is assumed that all characters on one side are either zombies or living). This gives the number of physical damage levels suffered by the losing side. These are divided randomly and as evenly as possible amongst the characters on the losing side.

If survivors are being attacked by zombies then each zombie, once per round of combat, has a chance to infect a survivor. Infection attempts are spread evenly and randomly amongst the survivors. Each zombie and their target rolls 1d6 and adds their CON stat. If the zombie has a higher total then the target gains one infection level. If a survivor becomes zombified as a result of this, he drops out of the combat as he wanders off confusedly.

Example 1:

Earlier, Rob the Zombie attacked Bob, wounding him. Rob has a CON stat of 3 and rolls 2 on 1d6. Bob has a CON stat of 4 and even though he only rolls a 1 the zombie didn't roll higher, so although Bob was wounded he doesn't get infected.

Example 2:

Ann, Bob, and Charlie are attacked by 2 zombies. Although they easily defend themselves, 2 of them might get infected. Rolling randomly Charlie is the lucky fellow not to have any risk of infection. One of them (CON=3) targets Ann (CON=4) and rolls a 2 so Ann is safe, but the other (CON=4) targets Bob (CON=3) and rolls a 3 while Bob only rolls a 1, so Bob gets a Dormant Infection.


Scavenging

When scavenging, first pick a type of item to scavenge for, or decide to scavenge for miscellaneous items. Melee Weapons and Ranged Weapons cannot be specified independantly; you can only choose Weapons as your item type.

To scavenge, the survivor rolls 1d6 and adds their INT stat to get their scavenge total.

When scavenging for miscellaneous items, survivors get a +1 bonus to their scavenge total and choose randomly from all types of items, not just those listed under "Miscellaneous Items".

Survivors may scavenge in teams. Use the INT stat of the team member with the highest value and add +1 for each additional team member scavenging. Only one item will be found and it will go to a random team member. If they are unable to carry it without dropping another item they may give it, or the other item, to another team member.

Example:

Bob (INT=4) wants something to heal his infection, so he goes to scavenge for medical supplies. He rolls a 5 which means he gets a total of 9.

Anna (INT=1) and Charles (INT=2) decide that they need to work as a team. To further increase their chances they will take whatever they find. They roll 1d6 and get a 2. That makes a total of 6.

Next look up the scavenge total on the chart below:

1-5: You find nothing. Bad luck.
6: You don't find what you're looking for, but you do find something. Randomly pick a different category and you get a low value item.
7-8: You find a low value item.
9-10: You find a high value item.
11+: You find an excellent item.

Next randomly select from all items of the type and quality found to find the exact item found.

Example:

Bob's total of 9 means he has found a high value medical item. Nice one, Bob! He decides odd numbers are paracetamol and even numbers are first-aid kit. He rolls a 4. Bad luck, Bob!

Anna and Charles' total of 6 means they have found a low value item. Just. They roll a 1d4 and get a 2 meaning that they have found a ranged weapon. They decide that odd numbers are a pistol and even numbers are ammunition. They roll a 1d6 and get a 6, so get ammunition. A further roll of 1d4 gives a 3 meaning that they have found a single shotgun shell.


Items

Zombies do not carry or use items at all.

Each survivor has the following item slots which can be used to carry items as described:

Left hand, right hand: Any single item of any size can be carried in a single hand unless it is described as a two-handed item.

Left pocket, right pocket: Any number of items up to a total size of 2 can be carried in each pocket.

Belt: A single item of any size up to size 4 can be carried tucked into a belt.

Back: Any single item that is described as being able to be slung can be carried on the back.

Items without a size value can only be held in the hands or slung on the back (if slingable). Weapons slung on the back or carried elsewhere cannot be used unless items or weapons being carried in the hands can be stored elsewhere to free the hands for use. E.g. a survivor with a slung rifle cannot use it if he is also carrying a pistol and a cleaver and has no free slots to store them, but can use it if he has a katana that can also be slung.

If a player obtains an additional item that he cannot carry as a result of scavenging or because another player gives it to him, they must choose one to drop which will be permanently lost, or can give items to other players. It is also possible for two players with full inventories to exchange items without dropping one or using a third player as an intermediary. However at the end of a day phase after all scavenging has been resolved but before the night phase has started, all surplus items must have been redistributed or discarded.

Melee weapons

2 by 4: 2-handed, +1 to hit, won't damage zombies. Low value item.
Frying pan: Size 6, 2-handed, +1 to hit, won't damage zombies. Low value item.
Cleaver: Size 4, 1-handed, can damage zombies. Low value item.
Baseball bat: 2-handed, +2 to hit, won't damage zombies. High value item.
Blowtorch: Size 6, 1-handed, 1 use, +1 to damage modifier, can damage zombies. High value item.
Axe: 2-handed, -1 to hit modifier, +1 to damage modifier, can damage zombies. High value item.
Chain saw: 2-handed, -2 to hit modifier, +4 to damage modifier, can damage zombies. Excellent item.
Katana: 2-handed, slingable, +1 to hit modifier, can damage zombies. Excellent item.


Ranged weapons
All ranged weapons are found with one set of ammunition loaded.

.22 Pistol: Size 2, -1 damage modifier. Short range. Low value item.
Air rifle: 2-handed, slingable, cannot cause damage but distracts target preventing them from performing any action. Can use makeshift ammo (doesn't run out). Low value item.
Beretta: Size 3, -1 to hit modifier. +1 damage modifier. Short range. Low value item.
.22 Rifle: 2-handed, slingable. Long range. High value item.
Shotgun: 2-handed, slingable. Short range. High value item.
Double-barrelled shotgun. 2-handed, slingable. Can shoot second zombie with -1 to hit on both attacks. Requires twice as much ammo for reloads or acts as normal shotgun. Short range. High value item.
Uzi: Size 6, +1 to hit modifier. Can shoot second zombie with -1 to hit on both attacks. Short range. Excellent item.
Sniper rifle: 2-handed, slingable, +1 to hit modifier. Long range. Excellent item.
Ammunition: Ammo clips are size 1 each. Rounds, shells, and bullets are size 1 for each 8 or part thereof for each individual type of ammo not loaded in a weapon. Beretta rounds, .22 rounds, Uzi clips, shotgun shells, sniper rifle rounds. 1, 2, or 3 at a time for low value, high value, excellent items.


Medical items

Bandages: Size 2, 2 uses, heals damage only. Low value item.
Sleeping pills: Size 1, 2 uses, puts target to sleep, looks just like antibiotics. Low value item.
Whisky: Size 3 (cannot be stored in belt), prevents infection spreading, but player can still barricade, scavenge or whatever. -1 modifier to all actions. Effects last 24 hours. Low value item.
Poison pill: Size 1, when swallowed player will die but not become a zombie regardless of infection state. High value item.
Paracetamol: Size 1, 2 uses, heals infection, -3 modifier. High value item.
First-aid kit: Size 3, 2 uses, heals damage only, +1 modifier. High value item.
Antibiotics: Size 1, 2 uses, heals infection, +1 modifier. Excellent item.
Med-kit: Size 6, 3 uses, heals either damage or infection. +1 modifier healing damage, -1 modifier healing infection. Excellent item.


Construction items

More nails: Size 1, 2 uses. Goes with hammer. Low value item.
No More Nails: Size 4, 1 use. +2 barricading modifier. Low value item.
Duct tape: Size 3, 1 use, +2 barricading modifier. Low value item.
Hammer and nails: Size 3, found with one set of nails, +2 barricading modifier. High value item.
Nail gun cartridge: Size 1, 1 use, Goes with nail gun. High value item.
Planks: 1 use, +3 barricading modifier. High value item.
Cement: Size 8, 1 use, +6 barricading modifier. Excellent item.
Nail gun: Size 4, found with 1 nail gun cartridge, +5 barricading modifier. Excellent item.


Miscellaneous items

Satchel: Slingable, can store any number of items up to a total size of 6. High value item.
Backpack: Slingable, can store any number of items up to a total size of 8. Excellent item.



Barricades

Players who are barricading decide amongst themselves how big a barricade they need, how many people it should shelter. They add together the STR stats of all the characters helping to build the barricade, plus any modifiers from items to get the barricading total. This value is divided by the size of the barricade (rounded down), and then they add 1d6 for the base strength of the building they are barricading, to get the barricade's defence value.

Example:

4 people with STR stats 2, 3, 4, 5 build a barricade for 5 people. They roll a 3 on 1d6 and so the barricade strength is ((2 + 3 + 4 + 5) / 5) + 3 = 5.

Only one barricade can be built in a day phase. After the night phase in which it is used it is assumed to be so beaten up by the zombies attacks as to be indefensible, and drawing too much zombie attention to be able to repair/rebuild it. The survivors sneak away to build a new one while the zombies are distracted by destroying the old one.

Cumulative barricade building is an optional rule still under discussion. Ideas include a cap on barricade strength (before the dice roll is added) and also that the 1d6 roll only applies for that night, while strength and items are cumulative. E.g. in the example above, if the same people barricaded the following night, the total would be 2 (from previous day) + ((2 + 3 + 4 + 5) / 5) (from STR) + 3 (1d6) = 7. There would also have to be an effect from zombie attacks otherwise once a barricade had hit it's cap no-one would need to barricade at all yet would still get a full barricade to hide in.

Healing

Instead of barricading or scavenging, a player can choose to heal themselves or others. The player being healed (the patient) can also not barricade or scavenge. The healer can use medical items owned by either themselves or by the patient. The healer can heal as many patients as they choose, but not heal themselves, or can heal themselves only. The healer must use an appropriate medical item to heal and can only use one such item per patient per attempt to heal.

To heal infection or physical damage, roll 1d6, add INT stat and any modifiers from the medical item being used. Divide this total by 6 to get the number of levels healed. Players cannot go to better than "Healthy" state.

Attacking Barricades

Zombies attack the people inside barricades in one of two ways. The first is to physically break through the barricade and the second is to sneak inside through an unlocked/undefended back door that has been overlooked.

To break through a barricade a zombie rolls 1d6 and adds its STR stat. It then subtracts the barricade defence value and the result is the number of attacks it gets against a randomly selected occupant of the barricade up to a maximum of 3.

Example :

The barricade built earlier had a barricade defence value of 5. Rob the Zombie (STR=4) rolls 3 on a 1d6 so gets 2 attacks against a randomly selected defender.

To sneak into a barricade, a zombie must roll 1d6 and add it's AGL stat. If it scores higher than the barricade defence value then it finds an appropriate unlocked door or unboarded window. It then subtracts the barricade defence value and the result is the number of attacks it gets against a randomly selected occupant of the barricade up to a maximum of 3.

Example:

The barricade built earlier had a barricade defence value of 5. Rob the Zombie (AGL=4) rolls 1d6 and gets 4. The total of 6 is higher than 5 so Rob finds an unlocked back door. He gets one attack against a random survivor in the barricade before being driven out.

Hide 'n' Seek

Survivors outside of the barricade at night can do one of two things. Cower in fear in an appropriate hiding place or hunt down some zombies. The latter they can do either as a group or individually.

All characters who intend to hide or use long range weapons to kill zombies roll 1d6 and add their AGL stat. This is their "hide" score. If multiple characters are hiding together, use the lowest AGL stat of the group and subtract 1 for every character after the first. Characters roaming the streets are considered to have a "hide" value of 0.

For each zombie who is roaming the streets roll 1d6 and add their INT stat. The total is their "seek" score. Randomly select a target from all survivors with a lower "hide" score. Once all zombies have found a target (if they can) work out all survivor and zombie mobs for melee combat.

Example:

Ann, Bob, and Charlie are roaming the streets as a mob, hunting zombies. Derek has a gun and intends to shoot a zombie from long range. Ellen is hiding. 3 zombies are roaming the streets tonight. Ellen's hide score is high enough that she passes the night safely, but all the others can be targetted by the zombies. One finds Ann, one finds Charlie, and one finds Derek. The zombies that find Ann and Charlie form a mob and attack. Ann, Bob, and Charlie form a second mob and prepare to fight.


A recommendation for how to calculate who gets found by a zombie is as follows:

For each hiding group that could be found by a zombie, subtract the hide total from the seek total and that gives how many chance they have of being found.

E.g.
Rob the Zombie gets a seek total of 8. Ann has a hide total of 4, so 4 chances of being found. Bob has 2 = 6 chances and Charles has 6 = 2 chances. That makes 12 chances total so the probability of being found for each person is:
Ann = 4/12 = 1/3
Bob = 6/12 = 1/2
Charles = 2/12 = 1/6

Roll 1d6: 1-2 = Ann, 3-5 = Bob, 6 = Charles

This makes it a little fairer as Charles is less likely to be found due to his much higher hiding total.



For each combat, there are two steps. First each character with a short range weapon can choose to use it. Second there are three rounds of melee combat as described in the "Melee Combat" section.

Example:

Bob has a shotgun. As the zombies attack he fires, wounding one zombie (selected randomly) slightly. Derek grabs his baseball bat, and the fight begins.


If a zombie hunting mob is not attacked at all, take the highest INT stat of the group, add 1 for each character after the first, and add 1d6. This is the mob's "seek" score. If their "seek" score is higher than 6 then they find a randomly selected zombie. If that zombie is attacking another survivor, the mob joins with that survivor.

If a character using a long range weapon is found they lose their chance to shoot a zombie. In the example above, Derek never got to use his weapon. If they are not found, calculate a "seek" score as for an unfound hunting mob. If the "seek" score is higher than 6 then a suitable target is found. Resolve the attack as described in the "Ranged Combat" section.

If, for some reason, a living character chooses to hunt another living character then calculate a "seek" score as for hunting mobs and long range attack mobs above.


Co-narrator: Deathslayer7

These are my final(ish) version of the rules incorporating changes from both playtesting games that are still (sort of) running.

Unlike the playtest games, I want this game to be much more bloody and with many more players becoming zombies. It's going to be much much harder to win (hopefully) so if you don't like the idea of dying horribly on night one, don't sign up.

The game will start when both playtest games have finished or when the narrator(s) get bored of waiting for them to finish. Both seem to be pretty much a foregone conclusion anyway.

Players:

Anatharon = Anatharon - Zombified
banthesun = Zachary Portmouth - 4/3/4/2, Barricading
BishFish = William Telex - 3/4/3/3, Ranged Weapons
Calar = Seamus Finch - 3/5/3/2, Stealth
Crown of Thorns = Marcus Fortesque - 3/3/2/5, Scavenging
Freshmeat = Anya Von Stradheim - 2/4/3/4, Scavenging
MasterofMockery = Earl Sinclair - 2/3/3/5, Scavenging
Mordokai = Mandy - Zombified
Nehh = Norman - 2/4/3/4, Stealth
Orzel = Dr. Ike White - 2/3/3/5, Healing
Sanity702 = Tod - 5/2/4/2 - Melee Combat
TehSheen = Sheen - Zombified
Xykon_Fan = Oog - Dead
Yspoch = Matt Quigley - 2/5/2/4, Ranged Weapons

Wizibirb
2009-11-06, 06:04 PM
you know I'm in Jontom,

However I will give my spot to co narrate if need be,

The Bookworm
2009-11-06, 06:21 PM
I'll be in, although the path be long and covered with spoilers.

MasterofMockery
2009-11-06, 07:44 PM
In, ever since I saw the first zombie rampage I wanted to join

TehSheen
2009-11-06, 08:11 PM
I'm back to play, with Drake the guitarist! (Inspired greatly by Brutal Legend.)

Stats:

Name:Drake the guitarist

STR:4
AGL:2
CON:4
INT:3

Skill:Melee Combat

calar
2009-11-06, 11:33 PM
Looks fun, Ill join.

Deathslayer7
2009-11-06, 11:41 PM
you know instead of running 3 different zombie rampages, you should probably just run this one.

Freshmeat
2009-11-07, 05:20 AM
In with guns.

Now that I've read through things more thoroughly, I've got to say this looks even better than I initially thought. Nice work.
Even if healing does seem very difficult (dividing the result by 6 seems a little high) I'll go with a healer/scavenger/gunslinger concept anyway.

Strength: 2
Agility: 4
Constitution: 3
Intelligence: 4

Skill: scavenging
Character: Anya Von Stradheim*, MD
* German is such a great language, even if used semi-nonsensically

TehSheen, you seem to have used 14 points, rather than 13. Just thought you might want to know.

Yspoch
2009-11-07, 06:54 AM
Let's slice and dice us some zombies! In, please!

My Char (very similar concept as Freshmeats):


Strength: 2
Agility: 5
Constitution: 2
Intelligence: 4


Skill: Shooting
Char: Matt Quigley

Mordokai
2009-11-07, 07:18 AM
In again. Character to come later.

Orzel
2009-11-07, 11:11 AM
I'm in as:

Dr. Ike White


Strength: 2
Agility: 3
Constitution: 3
Intelligence: 5


Healing

calar
2009-11-07, 07:03 PM
Character:

Seamus Finch - Survivalist

STR: 3
AGL: 5
CON: 3
INT: 2

Skill - Stealth

Inhuman Bot
2009-11-07, 07:38 PM
In.

Charcter:

STR: 2
AGI: 5
CON: 3
INT: 3

Skill: Shooting

banthesun
2009-11-07, 08:28 PM
I'll hop in for this one.

I'm thinking of being a big strong character, 'cos we already got enough clever scavangey shooty types.

Also, I'm assuming the barricades are non-cumalitive? You could justify this by saying we spend half of each day heading towards an evac point or something, and that we have to leave our barricades behind.

Xykon_Fan
2009-11-07, 08:30 PM
I might join, but I wanted to make sure I read this right...


Each 24 hours a player with "Malignant" or "Spreading" infection who isn't having their infection medically treated rolls 1d6. If they roll higher than their CON stat they go up one state. Any player who reaches the "Zombified" infection state becomes a zombie.

So having a higher CON state makes it less likely that you'll improve?

Murska
2009-11-07, 08:54 PM
Having a higher CON means you're less likely to get Zombified, yes.

Jontom Xire
2009-11-08, 04:46 AM
Even if healing does seem very difficult (dividing the result by 6 seems a little high).

Average INT stat = 3
Average item modifier to healing infection = 0

Thus to heal one level of infection you need to roll 3 or better on a 1d6.
If you have a stat of 5 in INT then you're almost assured success, although I count a 1 as automatic failure (obviously 6 is automatic success).
If you have a stat of 5 INT and antibitotics (+1) and you roll a 6 then you get to heal 2 whole levels of infection.

Seems fair to me.

---

XF, by "up one state" I meant more infected by one state, so high CON means you're less likely to get worse.

Etcetera
2009-11-08, 10:29 AM
I'm in...

Marcus Fortesque - Indigent Heir
STR: 3
AGL: 3
CON: 2
INT: 5

Skill: Scavenging or Healing depending on other players

Xykon_Fan
2009-11-08, 02:49 PM
Ah, I see. Alright, I'm in. Thanks, Jontom!

It's good to be back in the playground.

Character: Oog, the temporally displaced barbarian.

STR: 4
AGI: 2
CON: 4
INT: 3

Skill: Melee Combat

Freshmeat
2009-11-09, 01:27 AM
Average INT stat = 3
Average item modifier to healing infection = 0

Thus to heal one level of infection you need to roll 3 or better on a 1d6.
If you have a stat of 5 in INT then you're almost assured success, although I count a 1 as automatic failure (obviously 6 is automatic success).
If you have a stat of 5 INT and antibitotics (+1) and you roll a 6 then you get to heal 2 whole levels of infection.

Seems fair to me.

Right. I thought I read a line about rounding up your result in there somewhere, but I must've mixed that up with another section then. My bad.

Nehh
2009-11-09, 02:03 AM
I'm in!

Norman, the LARPing teenager.

STR: 2
AGI: 4
CON: 3
INT: 4

Skill: Hiding.

Jontom Xire
2009-11-09, 03:18 AM
I'm allowing at most one more player as that will (unless I miscounted) then make 15.

Mordokai
2009-11-09, 03:28 AM
Mandy, the Generic Medic

STR 2
AGI 4
CON 3
INT 4

Healing

I suck when it comes to names. Sue me :smalltongue:

banthesun
2009-11-09, 05:35 AM
Here's my dude:
Zachary Portmouth, Achitect

STR: 4
AGI: 3
CON: 4
INT: 2

Skill: Barricading

Deathslayer7
2009-11-09, 11:52 AM
ill be a co-narrator if you want Jontom. That way sanity can play.

Wizibirb
2009-11-09, 01:52 PM
If DS7 wants to take my position he can. Or he can play so whoever you want as your co narrator Jontom


Tod the tank.
STR:5
AGI:2
CON:4
INT:2

BishFish
2009-11-09, 02:33 PM
SO IN

character:
constitution 3
agility 4
strength 3
inteligence 3

Etcetera
2009-11-09, 04:27 PM
A question re the above rules:

What ammunition do air rifles use? Do they have infinite ammo?

Jontom Xire
2009-11-10, 03:12 AM
Oh, yeah. I forgot airgun ammo. I think that basically given it's an airgun that if you run out of airgun pellets you could always use wads of paper like in a pea shooter.

As Sanity prefers to play, I'll take DS7 as my co-narrator, and thanks.

---

Ok, we now have 15 players so recruitment is over. Can you all please finalise your stats and skills if you haven't already. Thanks.

---

DS7, can you please PM me your email address. I have a Google spreadsheet for the game all set up. Be careful on the "Scavenging" tab - most of the cells are formulas to automate calculating scavenging results that took me a long time to write.

Etcetera
2009-11-10, 10:55 AM
Right. I'll stick with scavenging then.

The Bookworm
2009-11-10, 09:04 PM
Dropping out; I'm too busy right now to tackle this.

Jontom Xire
2009-11-11, 09:07 AM
I've been setting up the spreadsheet to automate the "Hide n Seek" functionality and suddenly had an interesting though.

Let players=N
Let zombies = N x 1d3

So on average there will be Nx2 zombies.

There are three night time activities with an even chance of a zombie attempting each. Therefore the average number of zombies searching the streets each night is Nx2x1/3.

In other words if the players all take to the streets (apart from one to create a decoy barricade) then they will outnumber the zombies by 50% of the number of zombies. And the zombies are all much weaker (on average) than the players.

So despite increased numbers of zombies the players still have an easy ride if they:

Have one really strong barricader.
Have a few good medics/scavengers.
Make everyone else really good at melee and secondly at scavenging.

Then the barricader makes a great barricade, everyone forms a mob and goes hunting zombies at night. Once you find just one weapon capable of hurting zombies then, under the current rules, the entire mob strength difference is used to generate damage. Which is kinda fair. I always think of it as all the unarmed survivors holding down the zombies while the guy with the zombie hurting weapon hits them all a couple of times each. The zombies not the other survivors.

Anyway, in an attempt to redress this balance I will be pausing the game start until I come up with a balanced solution.

Idea 1:
-------
Mob zombie strength for attacking barricades - i.e. if just one guy barricades then just a few zombies combined strength will overcome the barricade strength and they'll break in and attack the guys inside. I think I might switch to using mob combat as well for that then as well. This prevents the tactic above because the poor sod in the barricade will be easily overwhelmed and die, while the zombie hunters will only manage to wound a few zombies at best.

However this then means we need to revisit how barricade strength is calculated. I still want to make it so that if 4 people make an 8 man barricade then the barricade is half as strong as it would be if made to hold only 4 people.

What we could do is calculate the barricade strength as before, but then forget about breaking in and just treat the whole thing as 3 rounds of mob combat with the barricade counted as a defense bonus. I'm not sure I quite like that idea though.


Idea 2:
-------
The rules already state that if there is no barricade, all zombies will roam the streets. I think we could extend that to say that the chance of a zombie roaming the streets is proportional to the number of survivors hiding on the streets. Hence if all but one survivor forms a zombie hunting mob, then on average all but 2 of the zombies will take to the streets hunting them and the survivors will find themselves facing up against twice as many zombies (on average).

We then need to work out how to calculate which zombies try and sneak into the barricades and which try to batter them down. I'm inclined to make it a rare chance (10%) that a zombie will try to sneak in rather than batter the barricades down.



I'd like other people's opinions on the ideas above, and also their own ideas.

Yspoch
2009-11-11, 09:54 AM
My comments come more from the fluff and not the crunch side of those considerations:

I like Idea 2 more.

* Semi-Random Actions for/from Zombies - as they (maybe) are attracted to noise/smell of survivors a (percentile?) chance of what they do seems fair. (More people roaming the streets - more Zombies on the streets)

* Sneaking into barricades should be a case of coincidence and not a "decision" of a (NPC) Zombie. 10% seems fine.

* Zombie Mob attack against barricades seems ok to me to, but the following attack should be one (random or strongest) zombie against one (random or agility-challenged) survivor. I think it depends what "breaking down the barricade" entails - is it trampled over or did a Zombie just manage to squezze an arm through a hole and flails wildly, grabbing someone unfortunate enough standing to close or not nimble enough to dodge?

* Another possibilty would be to hinder the survivors in their choice of barricade building - as the flee through the city, the don't have the luxury of choosing how big the barricades for the night can be. They get a choice of (for example) d4 places with room for d6 places.

Example:
There are 2 places suitable to fortify for the night - one with room for 2 and one with room for 5 people.

Those are my thoughts.

Jontom Xire
2009-11-11, 10:58 AM
What you said about "case of coincidence" set me thinking.

Zombie either roams the streets or tries to get survivors in the barricades. If the latter then they roll with INT against barricade strength. If they succeed then they find an unprotected way in. Otherwise they join the mob battering at the barricade.

If they find a way in then they get to attack the survivors directly. Each zombie targets one single randomly chosen survivor. In the event that more than one zombie targets a single survivor, mob combat rules apply.

The zombie mob battering at the barricade adds all STR stats together and adds 1d6.
The survivors inside who don't get attacked by zombies that snuck inside add all their STR stats together, add weapon bonuses, add the barricade strength, and add 1d6. This then works the same as melee combat EXCEPT that survivors cannot injure zombies, and zombies cannot infect survivors unless they win. There are three rounds of this in total.

The downside of this, to me, is that the zombies always outnumber the survivors, so are very likely to always win every round of combat. I need to run some simulations to see how viable this all is.

From a fluff point of view, and to answer Yspoch's question, breaking in entails a zombie getting pushed through a window or doorway through sheer weight of other zombies crowding him in. The zombie then gets a couple of swings in before the defenders push him out and double secure the entrance with a nearby table or whatever, whereupon they get 5 minutes respite until the zombies try another weak point. This goes on all night, hence the 3 rounds.

calar
2009-11-11, 11:15 AM
What I would suggest is to simply change the probability of zombie night actions. For example, each zombie has a 50/50 chance of either roaming the streets or going for the barricade. Of the ones that go for the barricade they have a 50/50 shot of either attacking it straight on or sneaking in. This way half the zombies will be on the streets, making it a relatively even fight. This way they also don't overcommit to attacking a barricade with 2/3 of their forces, making barricading a lot more viable.

Jontom Xire
2009-11-11, 11:30 AM
Even if we make it 50/50, the zombies are weaker than players, and with a 50% chance of roaming the streets, there will be, on average, the same number of zombies as players. So players will win. And as they can find and use weapons, the win more and more as the game goes on.

I agree with Yspoch that Idea 2 is better. I've done some simulations and it looks good.

I still want to do something with the barricades though.

Freshmeat
2009-11-11, 11:37 AM
I'm in favor of a percentile chance. For example:

--
5 survivors take cover in the barricades
5 survivors go and hide on the streets

In this case, all zombies have a 50% chance to attack the barricades and a 50% chance to roam the streets. On average, 10 will attack the barricades (where some have X chance or must meet an X INT check to sneak inside) and 10 will look for hiders.
--

If the amount of players performing a certain action changes, then this is reflected in the percentile chances.

2 survivors take cover in the barricades
8 survivors go and hide on the streets.

In this case, all zombies have a 20% chance to attack the barricades and an 80% chance to search for hiders.


This means that the survivors can't all do one and the same thing to fool the majority of the zombies (= the main problem), while still maintaining some uncertainty because the element of chance is still there. Furthermore, it means that the survivors would be advised to split their actions more or less evenly (about half to the barricades, the other half hiding). After all, going off to hide when 90% of all zombies are looking for you can really suck if you botch your hide roll.

(i.e. 'Idea 2' sounds good to me)

Nehh
2009-11-11, 02:21 PM
Freshmeat's plan is good. I'm not so sure about the exact chances, but the idea seems to work. Also, equal zombie vs human STR checks are slightly more viable if the zombies get a slight disadvantage when trying to break into the barricade, due to it being built to protect the humans inside.

Also, another good idea I had, maybe for a later game, is a skill called "Careful" or something like that. It makes weapons less likely to break when you use them. Or maybe you are conservative with your ammo and occasionally use less of it. Or something.

Etcetera
2009-11-11, 03:00 PM
The more skills, the merrier.
Also, whisky gives you a -1 penalty to all actions. It this for 12 hours, 24 hours or what?

Freshmeat
2009-11-11, 03:26 PM
A few more general questions while we're at it:

- Some of the other games seemed to mention something about running away. (i.e. "I fight for one round and then run if I find a zombie or a group of zombies."). Is such a rule in effect here, or do you have to sit all three combat rounds out when a zombie finds you, and can decide (in advance) whether to continue fighting or to run at that point?

- What kind of ammo does the Beretta use? Uzi rounds?

- This is just to check since the ammunition line in the rules confuses me a little: am I correct in stating that:


if you find (low value) ammunition, you get 1 shell/clips/round (* clips being '1 bullet' here)
if you find (high value) ammunition, you get 2 shells/clips/rounds
if you find (excellent value) ammunition, you get 3 shells/clips/rounds
if the amount of shells, clips and rounds you hold add up to at least 8 (and every increment of 8 thereafter), they start counting as a size 1 'object' in your inventory

Etcetera
2009-11-11, 04:08 PM
A few more general questions while we're at it:

- What kind of ammo does the Beretta use? Uzi rounds?

[/LIST]

I was going to ask that too.
I assumed .22 rounds.

banthesun
2009-11-11, 06:31 PM
Freshmeat has sold me on the percentage idea. So idea 2 for me.

Jontom Xire
2009-11-12, 03:23 AM
Also, another good idea I had, maybe for a later game, is a skill called "Careful" or something like that. It makes weapons less likely to break when you use them. Or maybe you are conservative with your ammo and occasionally use less of it. Or something.

Weapons don't break with my rules. And I fail to see how you can fire a bullet without it getting used up. That might work for Uzi clips, but I don't think a skill that only means you get double usage out of uzi clips is much value.


A few more general questions while we're at it:

- Some of the other games seemed to mention something about running away. (i.e. "I fight for one round and then run if I find a zombie or a group of zombies."). Is such a rule in effect here, or do you have to sit all three combat rounds out when a zombie finds you, and can decide (in advance) whether to continue fighting or to run at that point?


In this version if you win a round of combat you can choose to have some or all of the group run away instead of dealing damage. Obviously you have to tell me that you want to run away first opportunity you get before I start calculating night actions.





- What kind of ammo does the Beretta use? Uzi rounds?

- This is just to check since the ammunition line in the rules confuses me a little: am I correct in stating that:


if you find (low value) ammunition, you get 1 shell/clips/round (* clips being '1 bullet' here)
if you find (high value) ammunition, you get 2 shells/clips/rounds
if you find (excellent value) ammunition, you get 3 shells/clips/rounds
if the amount of shells, clips and rounds you hold add up to at least 8 (and every increment of 8 thereafter), they start counting as a size 1 'object' in your inventory


Ugh! Did I miss out Beretta ammo? I need to double check the spreadsheet scavenge functionality.

If you have 1-8 of a type of ammo, that uses up 1 slot (size=1) in your inventory.
If you have 9-16 of a type of ammo (as if that will ever happen, but just in case) then that uses up 2 slots.

I just didn't want players caching hundreds of ammo in a single slot. Realistically that should only apply to rounds and an uzi clip should be size 1 each.

BishFish
2009-11-12, 04:43 PM
William Telex likes ranged weapons

Jontom Xire
2009-11-13, 03:37 AM
We still need stats etc. from MasterOfMockery and a skill choice from Sanity702.

DS7, have you had a chance to look at the spreadsheet yet?

A bug in the system has occurred to me because of the way the random numbers all regenerate when you change the value of any cell. This means that if a zombie dies because it gets shot after the hide and seek results are decided, all the melee combat results will be incorrect and if we mark the zombie as dead then all the hide and seek mob groupings will change.


I'm trying to figure out a way to make all the "random" dice rolls deterministic based on a single cell in the spreadhseet so then to do a single turn we simply change that one number to a huge random value and after that all the dice rolls remain static.

Jontom Xire
2009-11-13, 10:05 AM
Ok, all dice rolls are now deterministic with a reasonable pseudo-random algorithm (It looks ok for this).

However I think Google is starting to struggle. On the hide and seek tab I have twice now found valid looking alues displayed and a completely incorrect formula that should cause utter rubbish to be displayed. I've also had problems getting the whole damn thing to refresh. There were a load of incorrect cell displays where the displayed value didn't match the expected output. I changed the seed value, and some of them got updated, but not others. I had to repaste the same formula in again to persuade Google to update the cell.

I'm also getting a bit carried away with this whole automation as every improvement I make makes me see that there are more values that currently need to be manually entered that could be automatically calculated.

I wish my Linux server was still working - I could do the whole thing with a web app :)

Etcetera
2009-11-13, 11:07 AM
Ah, for the woes of mathematics. I wish there was some way I could help you, but I don't have the knowledge or competence. All the same, best of luck.

MasterofMockery
2009-11-15, 04:45 PM
Sorry bout the timing but here are my stats

Earl Sinclair
STR: 2
AGL: 3
CON: 3
INT: 5

Skill: Scavenging

Jontom Xire
2009-11-17, 03:27 AM
I still needs stats and/or skills from some players. If these are not received by the time the game starts they will be randomly generated for you.

Can either DS7 or Sanity please PM me - I'm feeling a bit alone right now and definitely need an active co-narrator. If you don't have time to co-narrate, just say so.

Jontom Xire
2009-11-18, 07:12 AM
Ok, both other zombie games are over, time for this one to start!

Day 1 will be a little longer to help get you all settled in. DS7, if you care to take it away with an opening narration, that would be much appreciated.

Remember - if you die, you still get to play! Probably :smallbiggrin:

Deathslayer7
2009-11-18, 04:09 PM
note- this is sort of the game where you don't know what "those people" are yet but you'll find out soon enough.

A few days ago....

You were invited to lunch with a woman in a business suit who makes a tempting offer. She was hosting a party for her client, and would love to have you there. No cost, everything on her. You weren't sure if you would accept or not, but the next thing you know, your vision is blacking out and you fall unconscious.

Currently...
Low groans could be heard as people shifted groggily from their sleep, stirring from unconsciousness. The last thing you remember was talking to some woman in a red dress and then... you don't know.

For the first time, you realize you're not alone as you massage your neck. Others are there as well, with confused and blanks looks on how you all got here. A quick question makes everyone realize that no one knows where they are. As you all get and count, you realize that there are 15 of you in total. The room seems a bit cramped with this many people in it, and there's a single door to freedom, but it is locked at the moment as several people try to open it with no success.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Two men watch the group with cameras. Shall we begin? the younger one asks.

Of course. the older one nods. Our guests are awake. It would be rude to keep them waiting.

The younger one turns back to the monitor, pushing a button and starts speaking into the mike.
----------------------------------------------------------------------
A voicebox in the room with you beeps three times, alerting you to the fact that you aren't the only ones here.

Good evening ladies and gentlemen. I hope you all had a pleasent trip. You have been brought here for tonight's entetainment!

Now let me explain. Currently all of you will be released in a matter of moments into a labyrinth. In this labyrinth are strategically placed items that could help you survive this ordeal. But be warned! You are not the only things out there. There are also a variety of safehouses placed within the maze to help make a stand. I suggest you use them.

I suggest you all stiffen your backbone as well cause they will not hesitate to kill, and I recommend you do the same. Hesitation can cost you your life. he says this all in a casual, nonchalant voice. You might think me mean, maybe even cruel, but there is a way out. All you need to do is survive.

Now the rules. There are no rules except for a slight push from me. Head into the maze. Anyone who stays here after 15 minutes expire will die. If you make it through today, I'll give you more instructions tomorrow.

Oh and one last bit of advice. Stay alive. A giggle arises from the voicebox before it beeps three times and turns off.

There's a bit of silence shortly followed by cursing, begging, and whining. It all stops as a buzz alerts you to the door. It swings open silently. You all march into the maze, but a single women stays behind, not wanting to go in there. All she wants to do is see her husband again. There are large TV's on each wall and on the ceiling as well. For what purpose, who knows. You follow the path and come to the entrance of the labyrinth. It splits off to the left and right, and shortly after more paths appear. Soon enough, you're on your own.

The vociebox beeps out over the entire labyrinth, clearly heard. I direct your attention to the nearest TV to you. As he speaks, the TV lights up and there is the woman who stayed behind. She's crying in the corner when she looks. Horror appears on her face and the next thing you hear is a blood curling scream escape her mouth. The hair on the back of your neck stands as you see a man viciously bite the woman again and again. quite a few of them reach for arms or legs. She struggles for a moment still screaming but soon enough falls limp. The men ravage her bloody body. You can only stare at the screen watching helplessly.

As soon as it began, it turns off. The voice speaks again. I warned you all. Let that be a lesson. And now, let the entertainment begin! The voicebox beeps three times and turns off. Suddenly you don't have a very good feeling about this.
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The younger man turns to the older man a grin on his face. Dr. Xire only shook his head. Brillant but a bit blood thirsty he thought. The same as him? Never. He was interested in the advancedment of science! He watched the cameras, now for the first time interested in the experiment that had begun.


Day 1 starts! and ends whenever Jontom wants to end it!
A innocent survivor has been brutally bitten to death! 14 Survivors remain!
She was the first of many victims. How long will you last? :amused:

Etcetera
2009-11-18, 04:23 PM
Let the games begin...
Marcus, still bemused by the recent events, begins looking around for some clue as to what this is all about. And a gun.

Scavenge

Weapons...
INT= 5 + 1 (Scavenging skill)

Just tell me if I'm getting ahead of myself.

Wizibirb
2009-11-18, 04:41 PM
Todd watched in horror as the woman was torn to shreds, her name had been Rachel she had only been married for a month to her husband. She had been one of the first people he had talked to when he had woken up. He swallowed back his fear he turns to the TV screen. What kind of madman are you? He knew he had to find something to protect himself, he would not let this mad man get the better of him. If these people left him stuff to protect himself with he would make it their last mistake.
(Search melee weapons)

((OOC: I take it we are alone? Great opening scene by the way DS7))

Deathslayer7
2009-11-18, 04:46 PM
yes and no. you can find each other in the maze. :smallsmile:

which means that yes you can scavenge in groups still.

Yspoch
2009-11-18, 05:06 PM
I'll scavenge for a miscellaneous item. If someone wants to join me I won't say no. :smallsmile:

Freshmeat
2009-11-18, 05:24 PM
Anya Von Stradheim cursed inwardly for allowing herself to fall right into this trap. She'd heard the rumours of Dr. Xire's abhorrent 'experiments' and theories, yet even though she'd been warned again and again to stay well enough away, she only felt more driven to expose his malpractices. Of all the people in this room, she should've known that Dr. Xire, a certified mad scientist at any rate, might've learned of her investigations, and would have little qualms about including her in one of his experiments.

The deathtrap layout of the maze, as well as the afflicted victims, prone to aggressive behaviour - 'zombies' in layman's terms - only affirmed her suspicions that Dr. Xire had gone completely insane. The tardiness of this confirmation did not please Dr. Von Stradheim.

The other 'test subjects' represented a rather diverse group, but seemed capable enough. Despite questioning whispers of how the fifteen of them would survive this predicament, Anya could only count fourteen of them*.

* Honestly. I may be missing someone, but I only see 14 players.

As the maze stretched before her, the path branching off in dozens of different directions, Anya decided it best to start looking for, well, anything, really.

((Scavenge for Miscellaneous Items. (+6)
As per prior agreement, if TehSheen wishes to aid me I'll let him. My actions remains unchanged even if he has other plans.))

Mordokai
2009-11-18, 05:41 PM
Dr. Anya will suddenly feel very confident of herself.

Cast Delusions of Grandeur(check it on Crystal Keep) on Freshmeat. For the next two days(in game), your character will feel very self confident and brash, choosing actions she normally wouldn't.
This doesn't have to have in-game effect. Aka, you don't have to search for weapons if you have no use for them. You don't have to attack zombies barehanded. Though if you wish, I'm certainly not stopping you... :smallbiggrin: But you do have to do something to reflect this. Mostly by roleplaying...

And... scavenge for medicine. (+5)

Xykon_Fan
2009-11-18, 10:39 PM
Oog's brow furrows. He inwardly contemplates the meaning of life, and the frailty of it that one man with enough of a desire to kill, may snuff out his fellow man's being as easily as eating a mammoth leg.

Oog theorizes that man's search for meaning can be seen in the little thing one does to ensure survival. For instance, the tendency of man to search for every advantage.

Oog also speculates upon the nature of the group communication theories that are even now being evidenced. Will these men practice altruism and seek the benefit of the collective whole, sacrificing of themselves to ensure that their weaker fellows will be able to escape? Or will they have only their interests at heart?

Oog's brow furrows once again. "Oog no like talky box. Oog find death for talky box!" In a rage, oog tries to search the area around the speaker for some means of destroying the talky box or shutting it off.

Search for miscellaneous items. Int=3+1(Miscellaneous bonus)

MasterofMockery
2009-11-18, 11:57 PM
May I suggest a plan of action for mutual protection from zombies

Basically, the high strength players (Those with 4-5 strength) barricade for 2 people then buddy up with a scavenger or healer who will support them with weapons and items while sharing the barricade. While the people with high agility (4-5) hide, hopefully remaining unnoticed by the zombies.

Each of the Scavengers or healers scavenge for barricade materials so more permanent barricades can be established. Each barricade would have at the very least a strength value of 4 and would most likely hold out against the zombies and hopefully save most of us from being insta-killed the first night.

Wizibirb
2009-11-19, 12:17 AM
Hm as to the ^ point I would like to chip in some advice.
I have played in both games and for a time (albeit a short time) I ran the second game,
Barricading is not as useful as you think, Even with cumulative barricading it is often easily beaten b zombies in mass.
Also I would like to suggest that instead we gather as many weapons we can and fight as a group, with plus modifiers to hit it makes it extremely difficult to lose a round of combat. Unless the numbers are rigged you most likely won't lose. This is due to humans having higher strength and better weapons.

((also I am looking for an RP partner so anyone is free to stumble on Tod and join him))

Jontom Xire
2009-11-19, 04:12 AM
You all have been saying what your skill totals are for actions. Don't worry, everyone - I have a spreadsheet that has all your stats and skills on and automatically adds 1 if you scavenge for miscellaneous items.




And... scavenge for medicine. (+5)

Actually, you have an INT stat of 4 and no scavenge skill, so that makes a total of 4, not 5 added to your dice roll.



Hm as to the ^ point I would like to chip in some advice.
I have played in both games and for a time (albeit a short time) I ran the second game,
Barricading is not as useful as you think, Even with cumulative barricading it is often easily beaten b zombies in mass.
Also I would like to suggest that instead we gather as many weapons we can and fight as a group, with plus modifiers to hit it makes it extremely difficult to lose a round of combat. Unless the numbers are rigged you most likely won't lose. This is due to humans having higher strength and better weapons.


I probably shouldn't say this, but there are a LOT more zombies than survivors. They outnumber you slightly more than 2 to 1, and the total strength of all the zombies together is slightly more than 50% higher than all survivors put together. Secondly, zombies do not, as you seem to think, group against barricades. In previous games we had a few stronger zombies and attacking them was definitely the way to win. In this game we have lots and lots of weaker zombies.

Also, even if you win the first round of combat, and run away, each and every zombie gets a chance (small one, true) to infect you (one target per zombie per round of combat).

I think this game is much more balanced. As zombies are less good at everything than survivors, and test individually to attack barricades or find people, relatively few zombie night actions will be successful. Some zombies have higher than average INT and wil, if they search streets, find people. Some zombies have higher than average STR and, if the barricade is made with lots of you who only have STR 2, then they will very likely break in. But if the one with high INT attack the barricades and visa versa then they will most likely fail.

However grouping up to roam the maze at night is a very quick way to die en masse!

Nehh
2009-11-19, 01:41 PM
"Yay! Zombies! I always wanted to play a zombie map. Y'know, this is a very realistic setting. Just one problem : They forgot to give us our starting equipment. I'll just, y'know, go find some. Right?"

Scavenge for generic miscenally i.e. anything. +5.

Freshmeat
2009-11-19, 02:45 PM
It was during her search throughout the maze that Anya came across various piles of junk and debris, clearly left there on purpose. Perhaps Dr. Xire thought it appropriate to hide a variety of tools, possibly even weapons, in the hopes that the survivors would find them? Livening up the experiment like that seemed to fit the kind of twisted psyche they were up against.

While she hadn't found anything thus far, Anya felt confident that if Xire gave them so much as half a chance to stock up on weaponry, they'd turn this experiment right back on its own creator. Despite the situation, Dr. Von Stradheim actually had a pretty good feeling about this. Death seemed like a rather distant thing - something that could only happen to others. Where the rest might falter or cower, she would instead stand vigilant, as if to prove that the only way to break her fighting spirit would be through violence, and that even that wouldn't be easy.

After deciding that nothing of interest was to be found among the pile of junk in front of her, Anya stood up, wiping her dirty, slightly-muddy hands off on her jeans. The day was still young, and if there was anything out there that could help them escape from this maze, she would find it.

She hesitated for a moment as she passed another TV screen, considering the possibility of kicking it out of commission, but discarding that very same idea almost immediately. The thought that they were watching her was almost pleasant. It would make their defeat all the more humiliating.

Whatever her intended role in this experiment may have been, Anya aimed to disappoint.



May I suggest a plan of action for mutual protection from zombies

Basically, the high strength players (Those with 4-5 strength) barricade for 2 people then buddy up with a scavenger or healer who will support them with weapons and items while sharing the barricade. While the people with high agility (4-5) hide, hopefully remaining unnoticed by the zombies.

Each of the Scavengers or healers scavenge for barricade materials so more permanent barricades can be established. Each barricade would have at the very least a strength value of 4 and would most likely hold out against the zombies and hopefully save most of us from being insta-killed the first night.

((I agree with this. Especially since a couple of deaths early on might lead to a snowball effect where the rest of the survivors end up getting overwhelmed (http://fc00.deviantart.com/fs23/f/2008/012/e/6/Zerg_Rush_by_banjo2E.jpg).))

Wizibirb
2009-11-19, 04:03 PM
I probably shouldn't say this, but there are a LOT more zombies than survivors. They outnumber you slightly more than 2 to 1, and the total strength of all the zombies together is slightly more than 50% higher than all survivors put together. Secondly, zombies do not, as you seem to think, group against barricades. In previous games we had a few stronger zombies and attacking them was definitely the way to win. In this game we have lots and lots of weaker zombies.

Also, even if you win the first round of combat, and run away, each and every zombie gets a chance (small one, true) to infect you (one target per zombie per round of combat).

I think this game is much more balanced. As zombies are less good at everything than survivors, and test individually to attack barricades or find people, relatively few zombie night actions will be successful. Some zombies have higher than average INT and wil, if they search streets, find people. Some zombies have higher than average STR and, if the barricade is made with lots of you who only have STR 2, then they will very likely break in. But if the one with high INT attack the barricades and visa versa then they will most likely fail.

However grouping up to roam the maze at night is a very quick way to die en masse!

Wait, Why don't zombies attach the barricade in mass? :smallconfused:
The night where a zombie had broken into the barricade (Ie the last night) it took three zombies to overwhelm the barricade, and if you are saying that only one zombie at a time attacks a barricade then it would be best to have everyone barricade themselves, seperatly, in a room.
Well we shall see what happens but It will be intresting to see how it works out in the end..... Oh that reminds me how long do we have to surrvive? Or is there going to be an Alpha? :smallamused:

Deathslayer7
2009-11-19, 04:18 PM
to point out, there is only 14 of you not 15. Freshmeat was right. Mistake on my part, fixing it right now in the narration.

TehSheen
2009-11-19, 05:37 PM
Drake walks around the maze, and casually says "Hi" to anybody he meets. Looks like a good weapon will be needed. Also, these people need to cheer up a bit! Zombies? They'll turn into fans when he inspires the power of rock into them. He sees a female doctor searching around and offers his help.

Scavenge for Miscellaneous Items with Anya(Freshmeat)

Orzel
2009-11-19, 06:51 PM
scavenge for medicine

banthesun
2009-11-19, 07:14 PM
I'm gonna build a barricade for one, and roleplay once I adjust to this unexpected setting

calar
2009-11-19, 11:50 PM
Seamus will help Sanity scavang for melee weapons whilst muttering something like, "Kids this days, got no respect. Back in my day..."

Wizibirb
2009-11-20, 12:28 AM
The first person Tod encountered was Seamus, A likable old man who had a story for every occasion it made him smile. So Seamus, where did you get nabbed?

Jontom Xire
2009-11-20, 03:31 AM
Wait, Why don't zombies attach the barricade in mass? :smallconfused:
The night where a zombie had broken into the barricade (Ie the last night) it took three zombies to overwhelm the barricade, and if you are saying that only one zombie at a time attacks a barricade then it would be best to have everyone barricade themselves, seperatly, in a room.
Well we shall see what happens but It will be intresting to see how it works out in the end..... Oh that reminds me how long do we have to surrvive? Or is there going to be an Alpha? :smallamused:

Each zombie makes an individual roll against the barricade. I thought about doing a cumulative mob combat style thing earlier in the thread but after discussion decided to leave it as it is for now - it seemed to work well enough and if we go for a mob combat style approach then the barricades will be overwhelmed too quickly.

Secondly you cannot barricade yourselves individually. It has to be a group barricade.

There will be no Alpha - I don't think we're going to need one. There will be lenty of death without alpha zombies roaming around.

As for how long you have to survive - I either haven't decided, don't know, or am not going to tell you.

Actually if I had known DS7 was going to go for a maze approach I would have added "way out" to the miscellaneous category of things that can be scavenged and you would have to find it 4 times or something to find the way out. Actually we could still do that....

Yspoch
2009-11-20, 06:17 AM
I'm all for having a way out of the maze, but I'm slightly against using the scavenging method for it (depends on the details). At least it shouldn't be influenced by ability-scores.

If (in addition?) there would be a "last man standing" win condition it might be interesting to watch what happens if there are only 2 or 3 survivors left... :smallwink:

Jontom Xire
2009-11-20, 08:53 AM
Umm, so you don't think that being able to solve mazes is at all influenced by one's abilities? Like, maybe, INT? And you don't think that searching for a way out is at all like searching...umm, I mean scavenging...for supplies?

So what mechanism do you propose to allow players to find the way out? That everyone have a random chance of finding it regardless of whether they stayed in one place barricading or were out and about searching around?

Yspoch
2009-11-20, 09:29 AM
Oh, I am convinced that fluffwise it should be influenced by one's INT. But the attributes seem to be rather balanced right now and giving INT one more benefit could be viewed as a bit of a disadvantage for those who haven't chosen that particular stat (and my char has a high INT for that matter, so I'd like to think that I'm not biased in that regard).

So, if you decide to make it Scavenging/INT-dependent I would be happy for my char. :smallbiggrin: As it wasn't known it advance you could say it's just bad luck (tm) for those with lower INT and I'm pretty sure, no one would object.

Couple questions:
Would finding an exit-clue be possible while scavenging for misc items?
Would the exit-clue be in addition to the item or instead of?
How would the "quality" of the exit-clue be defined? (in regards to low, high and excellent)

As I think you personally are a rather mechanic-driven player (and nothing wrong with that) I would like to know what your reaction would be if you would be a player in this game with a melee-type character or otherwise and being told after the game starts, that one possible method of winning is helped by a stat you have chosen to neglect.

Anyway, it's just my 2 cents - I'll gladly play either way. :smallsmile:

Freshmeat
2009-11-20, 09:37 AM
How about multiple win conditions, each based on a different stat? We've already got two possibilities as we speak, namely surviving long enough for the military to arrive or simply killing off all zombies. Both seem fitting for the 'endurance' statistic. Searching for a way out could be based on intelligence, whereas strength might be used for, say, gradually tearing down an outer wall or building some kind of machine (or, dare I say it, tank). Agility would be similar to intelligence (i.e. finding an already existing way out) but with more acrobatic flavor.

Alternatively, you could combine all of that and include a daytime action "work on escape route" where your success is determined by your highest stat, as everyone chimes in based on what they're good at.

Not that I'd really mind if we simply stuck with the current win conditions, mind you.

Jontom Xire
2009-11-20, 10:18 AM
Oh, I am convinced that fluffwise it should be influenced by one's INT. But the attributes seem to be rather balanced right now and giving INT one more benefit could be viewed as a bit of a disadvantage for those who haven't chosen that particular stat (and my char has a high INT for that matter, so I'd like to think that I'm not biased in that regard).

So, if you decide to make it Scavenging/INT-dependent I would be happy for my char. :smallbiggrin: As it wasn't known it advance you could say it's just bad luck (tm) for those with lower INT and I'm pretty sure, no one would object.

Couple questions:
Would finding an exit-clue be possible while scavenging for misc items?
Would the exit-clue be in addition to the item or instead of?
How would the "quality" of the exit-clue be defined? (in regards to low, high and excellent)

As I think you personally are a rather mechanic-driven player (and nothing wrong with that) I would like to know what your reaction would be if you would be a player in this game with a melee-type character or otherwise and being told after the game starts, that one possible method of winning is helped by a stat you have chosen to neglect.

Anyway, it's just my 2 cents - I'll gladly play either way. :smallsmile:


Yuh, did you look at my character with the really low INT in the "other" game that DS7 was running before? And what did I do? Teamed up with a player who had low STR and high INT! I protected them and they healed me. It's called teamwork.

So my reaction in your postulated scenario would be "Hey that's cool! Bob, shall we go look for the exit together?"

The mechanics would be:

1) That it is an exit from one stage of the maze to the next, not a clue to the exit.
2) There would be several stages, probably 4.
3) The survivors would all be considered to be sticking together, so if ANYONE found a clue, the whole group move onto the next stage at the start of the next day phase.
4) If multiple people find an exit on the same day, you all just found the same exit.
5) That an exit would count as a miscellaneous item for scavenging purposes (as already stated) so you would have to be scavenging - misc to find one.
6) That an exit would count as an "excellent" item for scavenging purposes.
7) As the rules already state, each group of scavengers can only find one item per day phase.

As for different win conditions, one STR based and one INT based, how about one AGL based, and one...etc. etc. No I don't think so.

To me this game has two ways to be played - one you have a high AGL and hide hoping that the zombies find someone else rather than you, or two, you work as a team with barricaders working to protect scavengers/healers, and forming melee groups for mutual protection (when/if zombie numbers have been whittled down enough to allow that).

The best bit is that someone you want to be a team player may decide not to and end up going off on his own and sacrificing others for his own personal good. Not to mention the possibility of traitors like the cultists in the original game, deliberately undermining your attempts. And that's where it becomes more than just die-rolling and mechanics.

Yspoch, I understand (and mostly agree) about being mechanics driven, but to me a good game is one with strong mechanics that actively encourage diverse and varied play strategies and interaction between players, rather than one which relies on people playing by implicit and un-stated/non-existant rules. Like Cluedo versus Monopoly. If you play Monopoly strictly you almost NEVER make deals because what's good for you is bad for the other person and visa versa so unless one of you is an idiot or mis-reads the possibilities, no deal ever happens. The game becomes pure chance and very boring. By contrast Cluedo allows for an extra level of play above that which most people achieve. I don't just write on my piece of paper when it's my go, I do it on everybody's go - who requested what and who they showed it too, and then work my way through the myriad possible combinations to obtain information I wouldn't otherwise have. The game mechanics actively encourage one to do so - and then when you're playing with other people who play like that you have to shift tactics to try and deceive them. The better you get at the game the better the game gets and it becomes a game of real skill.

That's something I try to achieve with all the games I invent/design. So while I may be obsessed with mechanics, in my mind's eye I'm looking at something more than mechanics, but based on or driven by them, if you see what I mean.

calar
2009-11-20, 01:59 PM
The first person Tod encountered was Seamus, A likable old man who had a story for every occasion it made him smile. So Seamus, where did you get nabbed?
"Nabbed? NABBED? I ain't got nabbed by no one. I goes down fighten like a man. They was all round me, comin from every corner, with the motors firerin and the guns blarin, the accursed jungle foliage blockin me view. Didn think Id make it out live. So I takes my rifle and starts blastin away like a maniac. I tell you I dropped at least 50 that day, and what reward does I get? Another 5 day long crawl through that bug infested cesspit, just to get back to camp. But I don't goes complainin once, no sir. I pushed on on through 5 days of eatin nuttin but me own shoes till I sees the light of the fifth day, only to have my camp ambushed in the night, and havin to start all over agin..."

BishFish
2009-11-20, 03:19 PM
while Will is searching, he thinks over the situation "geez, I am about to go to a fancy dinner party, and I get stuck in a crazed man's idea of fun! maxes full of zombies just aren't my thing."




Thanksgiving! (for us in us) I won't be able to post for a week, but if I can, I will.

Wizibirb
2009-11-20, 03:41 PM
Tod listened to Seamus story, he could not help but chuckle. He liked the old man he would be a good companion. Smiling and making small talk he continues to search.





I like the idea of multiple "win" conditions. for example, the one where you have to find your way out is not bad. But how about one where you have to kill X # of zombies where X= the original player count. Just a thought.... It would give people a reason not to just dump everything into int, so they could search for a way out.

MasterofMockery
2009-11-20, 06:50 PM
Search for Miscellaneous items

"Damn, All I wanted was some free food, and I end up trapped in a horror movie, Although on the plus side, that psycho who put us in here would make a great lieutenant in Hitler Mortis."

Xykon_Fan
2009-11-21, 05:36 PM
Alright, as JX pointed out, there are already two conditions...and as freshmeat pointed out, both of them are helped by CON. However, STR and AGI still both have their own conditions that are the primary method of winning.

At the moment INT ends up helping more often than it ends up doing something. May be useful to give that one a win condition as well.

Just my thought.

calar
2009-11-22, 01:15 PM
Alright, as JX pointed out, there are already two conditions...and as freshmeat pointed out, both of them are helped by CON. However, STR and AGI still both have their own conditions that are the primary method of winning.

At the moment INT ends up helping more often than it ends up doing something. May be useful to give that one a win condition as well.

Just my thought.I would like to point out the utility of INT between scavenging, medical, and hunting. The group would almost certainly not survive without the first two. An INT based win condition seriously throws off the balance of the game, especially since we already picked our stats. It could maybe be an interesting twist on a future game, but dont change it now that we've started.

Jontom Xire
2009-11-23, 05:00 AM
It's been a long time since day start, so day ends now. Two players didn't submit day actions but just wandered around randomly. I'll do the day results, DS7 can do a proper narration when he gets a chance.


Crown of Thorns - Blowtorch
Sanity702/Calar - Ammo: 2 Uzi clips
Yspoch - Air rifle
Freshmeat/TehSheen - Duct tape
Mordokai - Duct tape
Xykon_Fan - Poison pill
Nehh - Poison pill
Orzel - Paracetamol
Master of Mockery - Med-kit

Barricade strength is 8 and has size 1. BanTheSun gets first call on that barricade space.

I need item allocations from you. If you found an item and don't say who gets it I will assume the first name listed gets it.

I need night actions. If you don't get one you are assumed to be wandering the maze in a daze, i.e. not hiding, and you will get found by most of the zombies and certainly die.


In answer to some of the issue with INT being used to find an exit making INT too strong (used for too many things), it's just scavenging like normal scavenging, and besides finding an exit applies to everyone. So I'm afraid I just don't understand the point you are trying to make. If everyone maxes out INT, yes you will probably find an exit on the first day, probably several times over, but then you will all die because there is no barricade and you will all have rubbish AGL so be unable to hide effectively. The end result is that someone who maxes out STR or AGL will have a better chance of surviving because they can hide or barricade and leave the finding of the exit and the dying at the hands of the zombies to those with high INT. So INT will not suddenly become a "super-stat" the way AGL was in one of the playtest games.

Anyway, it seems an unpopular choice, so we won't be doing it. And no we can't try it out in a future game once you've all had some warning because the next game is unlikely to be set in a maze.

I do plan, if I get a chance, to run some game simulations with it in to overcome some of the objections by demonstrating what would happen if:

1) Everyone in the current game did nothing but search for the exit, aiming at a better than 50% chance of finding excellent items.
2) Everyone had maxed out INT and then tried the same thing.

Yspoch
2009-11-23, 05:23 AM
Regarding INT-discussion: The misunderstanding (at least from my side) was that finding the exit applies to everyone and not to each individual player. As I stated above I would have and still would gladly play either way - I was just stating my opinion.

Night action: Hide and (if the air rifle is considered a long range weapon) snipe (otherwise I'll only hide).

Xykon_Fan
2009-11-23, 07:11 AM
Oog will join up with any mob (more than 4) attacking zombies, but otherwise, will hide.

banthesun
2009-11-23, 07:37 AM
It had been a day of hard work for Zach. He couldn't believe that woman had actually managed to kidnap him. He wasn't some silly little girl, this wasn't supposed to happen to someone like him. But he had a plan. Those other losers had no idea what was going on, they were wandering the maze looking for things. But Zach knew how to survive. While they were all wandering he'd built a small shelter. Cramped, but highly fortified, it'd take more than a few of those crazy people they'd shown on the screen to break through this. Probably take a tank or something. But the barricade wasn't the plan. That was only part one. Zach climbed atop the barricade and shouted out into the maze.

"HEY! LISTEN UP! I'm selling this barricade! Safety within this shelter for an item you found in the maze! Well? Who wants it?"

((OOC: Hey all! I'm selling my barricade. Paracetamol or the Med-Kit are the only things I see right now which I actually want from you people, but I'm always open to bargaining. If you don't have something I want you can try and make a deal, or if you have one of the items I want but think the price is too high, just drop me a pm and barter for the barricade.))

Freshmeat
2009-11-23, 08:19 AM
((A quick heads-up: Mordokai's account is closed at the moment (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7348907&postcount=317) (by his own request) and probably won't be opened until somewhere in January.

I will hide tonight, (running at the earliest opportunity)

TehSheen can have the duct tape if he wants to, unless he fears he may get killed tonight. I'm in favor of passing it along to whoever builds a barricade tomorrow.

Personally, I'm not a fan of bartering. Teamwork, and getting the right items to the right people ASAP, free of charge, seems far more preferable to me. Once we're in a state of 'I won't help you if you don't do something for me first' or 'I need to scavenge for items as no one else will ever give them to me', our odds of surviving go down drastically. Just my two cents.))

Jontom Xire
2009-11-23, 08:28 AM
Ok, just to give you a heads-up.

I did a simulation for the current group assuming that all you ever did was optimise your chances of finding the exit during the day and hide at night. I won't go into details, but by the end of two sets of phases half of you were dead and you were still no closer to the exit. So I really don't think having "Way out" as a scavengable item is that game breaking.

A couple of things the simulation taught me was that being really good at hiding is a great way to survive, and if your hiding skill is borderline, having good CON is essential. One survivor died against a single zombie with STR=1. Totals were 9/6 in the first round of combat and toughness was 1, so that straight to Wounded in round one. The zombie then only had to just win the next round of combat to deliver that 1 more level of injury and kill its victim.

Alternatively, a good barricade is a good way to survive.

calar
2009-11-23, 09:40 AM
Hide and run at the first chance if attacked.

Etcetera
2009-11-23, 11:02 AM
Marcus will also join any mob hunting zombies but otherwise hide.

Blowtorch ought to be fun...

Nehh
2009-11-23, 12:55 PM
My guy will hide now.

EDIT: Also run.

Orzel
2009-11-23, 07:18 PM
Dr. White looks at his medication. He decides to sneak away and hide for the night since he is unarmed.

"If a zombie finds me I'm running the first time I get an opening." he whispers "Maybe I can join a group soon. My skills will be useful and could draw allies."

TehSheen
2009-11-23, 10:11 PM
Alright, Drake will gladly take the duct tape and for the night, he'll hide and run.

((Of course, I believe that anybody who needs the duct tape can go and take it, but if you guys want to go and trade items with me, I'll happily take your stuff.

Freshmeat, can you scavenge for a weapon for me, and in return, I'll build a barricade to protect us? If anybody wants to take the duct tape, feel free. If not, I'm using it on the next day.))

Jontom Xire
2009-11-24, 05:27 AM
Still waiting for a whole 5 actions. Phase ends at 10:00 am server time tomorrow.

Incidentally, Yspoch, that air rifle is long range, but how do we pick a target? The rules say:



If a character using a long range weapon is found they lose their chance to shoot a zombie. In the example above, Derek never got to use his weapon. If they are not found, calculate a "seek" score as for an unfound hunting mob. If the "seek" score is higher than 6 then a suitable target is found. Resolve the attack as described in the "Ranged Combat" section.


Interestingly this situation never arose in the playtest games. Personally, although making an INT/seek check is a realistic idea (trying to snipe from a basement isn't really going to work now, is it?) it kinda bungs up the game. I scrapped the INT check for zombies sneaking into barricades, so I'm inclined to scrap the INT check for sniping.

So how do we pick a target? I'm inclined to offer you the following choices:

1) Random zombie searching streets.
2) Random zombie attacking barricade.
3) Random zombie attacking named survivor.

For option 3 if the named survivor doesn't get attacked then you don't get to make an attack.

Does this seem reasonable?

If not, why not and what would be better?

Any criticisms that don't answer these last two questions reasonably precisely will be ignored on the grounds that if you can't say what's wrong with it you're just whinging pointlessly, and if you can't come up with a better idea, quit complaining. :smallbiggrin:

Yspoch
2009-11-24, 06:19 AM
Damn it, it's no fun complaining when you set the rules that strict! :smallyuk: :smallwink:

The options seem fine to me - I'll choose option 3.

New night action therefore:

Hide, try to protect Dr. Ike White (Orzel) via sniping and run if found and if possible.

I chose Orzels Character because he has the lowest combined AGI (hiding) and STR (melee) score. Maybe someone can build a bigger barricade next round for at least 3 Persons?

BishFish
2009-11-24, 04:57 PM
Dang, we only found one weapon. i'll hide for now AGL 4

Deathslayer7
2009-11-24, 06:23 PM
JX me and sanity are sick. I have strep throat, and sanity has the swine flu. So if someone else wants to control his actions for now, let them.

I know this bc im his best friend.

MasterofMockery
2009-11-24, 06:48 PM
Well... I could have the doctor portrayed as a nazi scientist and hold Roosevelt hostage and try to discover his-
"HEY! LISTEN UP! I'm selling this barricade! Safety within this shelter for an item you found in the maze! Well? Who wants it?" Earl's train of thought was derailed, tragically leaving no survivors, as the yell cut through the blanket of silence. He had nearly figured out chapter 2 before some idiot cut him off, and he was about to yell at the buffoon for interrupting genious when one of the words rang through his head.

Safety

Well a barricaded shelter would be an excellent place to figure out the ending, maybe I should meet this man. after all I have no use for this medical kit.

OOC:Hide and runfor now.


Single scavenger looking for barricader body guard.
I Have: 5 int and a skill in scavenging so I will always get an item and I have a med kit I can use.
I will: provide both weapons and medical aid.
I am looking for: a strong bodyguard/sidekick for zany adventures.
I enjoy: Long walks down the beach and candlelit dinners.

Inhuman Bot
2009-11-24, 08:45 PM
(Sorry for not posting, I've been busy. Also, I'll Hide and Run)

banthesun
2009-11-25, 12:54 AM
Zach was just about to give up on selling the barricade when he noticed a strange man giving him a contemplative look. He was not to waste this opportunity. Time for a sales pitch.

"Here's the fine shelter, raised platform inside reinforcing the base, cross beams at the apex make it resist pushes and shoves. The walls are sunken into the ground, and the door has three bars. Safe, sturdy, and secure." Zach didn't even wait for a response. "Good choice, you just wait inside there, watch that frame, and keep that med-kit safe. There, nice and cosy. I'll be back in the morning, or whatever passes for morning round here anyway. Enjoy!"

He then headed off into the maze, he was ready to keep himself safe.

((OOC: MasterofMockery can have the barricades. I'll join the mob with Crown of Thorns, and Xykon Fan if he's up for it. Run as soon as possible, and leave the group if it goes hunting for zombies.))

MasterofMockery
2009-11-25, 01:48 AM
Safety at last
Cower in the barricade in the fetal position.

And I think that unless someone objects I will have Tod hide

Jontom Xire
2009-11-25, 03:47 AM
Ok, first of all, anyone who said hide but didn't specify run if attacked, I'm going to assume you'll run anyway as not running simply gives the zombies more opportunity to infect you even if they don't damage you.



Zach was just about to give up on selling the barricade when he noticed a strange man giving him a contemplative look. He was not to waste this opportunity. Time for a sales pitch.

"Here's the fine shelter, raised platform inside reinforcing the base, cross beams at the apex make it resist pushes and shoves. The walls are sunken into the ground, and the door has three bars. Safe, sturdy, and secure." Zach didn't even wait for a response. "Good choice, you just wait inside there, watch that frame, and keep that med-kit safe. There, nice and cosy. I'll be back in the morning, or whatever passes for morning round here anyway. Enjoy!"

He then headed off into the maze, he was ready to keep himself safe.

((OOC: MasterofMockery can have the barricades. I'll join the mob with Crown of Thorns, and Xykon Fan if he's up for it. Run as soon as possible, and leave the group if it goes hunting for zombies.))

That mob explicitly specified that it would be hunting zombies. So are you joining it or not? Both players also specified that they wanted at least 4 players or otherwise they would hide, and as there are only 3 of you it looks like you'll all be hiding. I assume you'll be doing that individually.

So anyway I've got all actions, update will be coming out shortly.

Jontom Xire
2009-11-25, 07:07 AM
Mandy wandered aimless and lost around the maze. She turned a corner and saw a horde of shambling zombies. With s shriek she turned to run...and saw another horde of zombies coming aroudn the other corner. As the zombies tore at her she screamed. The screams didn't last long.

Matt Quigley hunkered down with his air rifle, covering the entrance to Dr Orzel's hiding place. Soon he spotted a lone zombie wandering down the passageway. It stopped as if it sensed something and turned towards Dr. Orzel. Matt took careful aim when he heard a shuffling sound behind him. Rolling over he fired at the zombie wandering up behind him, distracting him for the vital few moments it took to roll to his feet, smash the zombie in the face with the butt of his air rifle, and run away.

The zombie below, distracted by the commotion, turned away just as Dr. Orzel stepped out from his hiding place, gave him a violent shove, and ran away.

Many others were attacked that night too. William Telex was forced to run for his life. Others were less lucky. Anatharon and Sheen were torn apart. Zachary Portmouth was attacked and injured before he managed to shove the zombie attacking him away and run for his life. Oog was also attacked. Outnumbered by two zombies he was unable to break free and run away, but his tough skin saved him from their puny attacks and he came away with only scratches.

Meanwhile a small group of zombies hammered fruitlessly on the barricade, their puny rotted muscles unable to contend with the superior building skills of Zachary Portmouth.


Mordokai was inactive so didn't hide. Most of the zombies targetted him. He died and became a zombie.
Yspoch and Orzel were attacked by zombies but survived.
Anatharon and TehSheen died and became zombies.
BanTheSun was injured but survived.
Xykon_Fan was attacked, but only scratched and so survived.
Eight zombies attacked the barricade but were unable to break through. I bet BanTheSun wishes he'd stayed in his barricade now, huh? Cannot barricade and be healed!

Jontom Xire
2009-11-25, 07:27 AM
Ok, quick gameplay related post.

The reduction in stats on becoming a zombie isn't working as well as I had hoped - we had no actual deaths in the playtest game so it didn't really get tested. The trouble is that unless you have a stat of the absolute maximum, 5, the zombified stat is only 1 - very pitiful.

Secondly I'd like to point out that the reason so few of you died is:

1) Mandy attracted most of the zombies.
2) The barricade attracted 300% more zombies than statistics would suggest. I.e. there is roughly a 2:1 zombie to player ratio (slightly higher, actually) and the 1 player in the barricade attracted not just the 2 zombies that would be statistically average, but an additional 6 zombies besides.

If you repeat yesterday's actions today then unless one of you is prepared to wander round the streets attracting attention - and dying as a result, then there will be many many more deaths tonight.

Also, as a result of tonight's actions, I am going to say that as 3 of a nominal 15 players died, you therefore can be expected to survive 5 nights - with good strategy and a bit of luck. Therefore there will be 4 more day/night full turns and then the game will be over.

Let's see if any of you survive!

Day 2 of 5 starts now.

Yspoch
2009-11-25, 10:16 AM
Huh, that was close!

I'll trust my luck and scavenge for misc items again.

Etcetera
2009-11-25, 10:56 AM
Did anything happen to me?
If I was injured, scavenge for medical equipment.
If not, scavenge for weapons.

Jontom Xire
2009-11-25, 11:06 AM
If you weren't mentioned in the narration or the spoiler then you basically weren't found and so got a peaceful night's sleep instead.

Freshmeat
2009-11-25, 11:55 AM
(Alas, poor Mordy)

I'll scavenge for miscellaneous items today.

Nehh
2009-11-25, 12:32 PM
Search for miscellaneous items.

Also, I think it would be a good idea to form a sniper chain.

Xykon_Fan
2009-11-25, 05:49 PM
Oog finds a wild turkey and runs after it, scavenging for weapons on the way with which to kill the large and tasty bird.

He invites all other players to a feast.

Wizibirb
2009-11-25, 07:11 PM
Yup its true I am sick with the swine flu. And Ds7 is my best friend, So I request that my actions be allotted to someone else till I am better and able to get on more.

with that being said whoever wants to use Tod may as long as the action is not suicidal. (ie he will not attract all the zombies at night):smallannoyed:

MasterofMockery
2009-11-25, 07:26 PM
Search for Construction materials or if banthesun is up for it I will heal him
I say we abandon the separate groups of survivors and start working together. If we stay uncoordinated then the zombies will rip us to pieces, take me for example, I was attacked by 8 freaking zombies, and managed to survive thanks to the fine workmanship of Zachary Portmouth. Each of us has their strengths, I for one can get an excellent item every third time. So I say we pool our items and skills together, and try to make the best of this zombie game. To show I am not just talking I will let anyone take the medkit, and will give the barricade to someone either more injured, or more crucial to the groups safety than I.

Nehh
2009-11-26, 12:58 AM
I personally think I will continue to hide, and maybe snipe sometime if I get a weapon. I have an AGI of 4 and a +1 on Hide checks, so I will at least be safer than all of the other hiders.

banthesun
2009-11-26, 02:08 AM
Mockery's right, if our high str characters form a mob we'll all have a better chance of surviving. I must announce that I have a malignent infection. If I enter combat tonight I am most likely to become a zombie. If possible I'd like to put off my healing until we can do a group heal, but that seems highly unlikely.

Also, I've noted an exploit in the mob rules. We can add players to the group and have them run before battle to keep them perfectly safe. It would be possible under the current rules to form a mob with all the player, and then sacrafice a single player every night to prevent additional casulties. Of course, this isn't the point of the game, is it.

Jontom Xire
2009-11-26, 03:51 AM
Search for miscellaneous items.

Also, I think it would be a good idea to form a sniper chain.

You can't use a sniper distract or kill to prevent being found so that you can snipe. I.e. 3 people form a loop sniping to cover each other. If one of you gets found, even if the zombie gets killed or distracted, you still don't get to snipe.


Mockery's right, if our high str characters form a mob we'll all have a better chance of surviving. I must announce that I have a malignent infection. If I enter combat tonight I am most likely to become a zombie. If possible I'd like to put off my healing until we can do a group heal, but that seems highly unlikely.

Also, I've noted an exploit in the mob rules. We can add players to the group and have them run before battle to keep them perfectly safe. It would be possible under the current rules to form a mob with all the player, and then sacrafice a single player every night to prevent additional casulties. Of course, this isn't the point of the game, is it.

You cannot run before battle. You MUST win a round of combat before you can run. I'd love to know where you got the idea that you could run before combat started. Also if one can run, all can run so what is this with sacrificing a player?

Jontom Xire
2009-11-26, 11:12 AM
I'm going to set the deadline as midday tomorrow. I still need actions from quite a lot of you.

Those of you who are away will be controlled by me if no-one else controls you first.

BanTheSun, I need to know what you are doing more explicitly and precisely, please. Are you letting MasterOfMockery heal you? Those others of you that have infections or injuries could be healed at the same time.

Also Orzel is the doctor. Maybe everyone ought to give all th medical supplies to him and get on with other stuff while he heals all the injured. But that would need him to post an action.

MasterOfMockery makes a good point about working together. And that takes communication. I don't see a lot going on. So far the actions as I see it are:

Yspoch: Scavenge Misc
CoT: Scavenge Weapons
Freshmeat: Scavenge Misc
Nehh: Scavenge Misc
Xykon_Fan: Scavenge Weapons
MoM: Scavenge Construction
BanTheSun: Inactive
BishFish: Inactive
Calar: Inactive
Orzel: Inactive
Sanity702: GM controlled

Several of you have infections. Some quite serious - you may turn into zombies when night starts. There are exactly 3 times more zombies than players. Get moving or die.

Btw, I will make you use Poison Pills, if you have them, when you would otherwise have turned into zombies, unless you tell me otherwise.

Also, if people go inactive then I may assign other players, including those whose characters have died, to control you.

In fact if, as a group, you want to assign actions to inactive players, feel free. If they can't be bothered to post I will probably use them.

Freshmeat
2009-11-26, 11:36 AM
Mockery's right, if our high str characters form a mob we'll all have a better chance of surviving.

I would advise against making a mob. With three zombies for every survivor, you'll attract a ton of attention and will probably still be outclassed in the strength department, even if you pile all of the high-strength survivors together. It sounds like a risky idea, and constructing a barricade and seeking shelter inside it at night seems much better to me. Those with passable or good agility can hide, of course. Basically, we need more barricades and less low-agility people hiding, and even then we'll probably need to get a little lucky.

Here are some suggestions for some of the people who haven't posted an action yet, just in case they don't show up before midday tomorrow:

BishFish: barricading
Calar: barricading
Orzel: either healing or scavenging

If Orzel is healing, he'll need to get the medikit. I'll leave it up to banthesun to decide whether it's worth it to get healed up, or if it's better to let both himself and Orzel scavenge/barricade now and keep our fingers crossed banthesun makes his constitution check and isn't attacked anytime soon. Probably the former.

Xykon_Fan
2009-11-26, 01:35 PM
I can construct a barricade, but I'm also malignant. I'm up for being healed if anyone is willing to do so. Alternatively, I have a poison pill. I figure melee tanks may be a necessary thing in this game though.

Etcetera
2009-11-26, 02:40 PM
Right. Does anyone want some sort of medical equipment to help them heal, or do we think we have enough?

Does anyone want help constructing a barricade?

Does anyone with a higher strength want a melee weapon? (It'll be more use to them than me)

It might help if someone took nominal command...

Deathslayer7
2009-11-26, 05:24 PM
My thoughts Jontom. This game is over way to fast. 3 days? To me it should last longer.

banthesun
2009-11-26, 06:45 PM
You cannot run before battle. You MUST win a round of combat before you can run. I'd love to know where you got the idea that you could run before combat started. Also if one can run, all can run so what is this with sacrificing a player?


However on encountering zombie(s) the members of the mob with weapons can form a smaller mob and attack the zombie(s) while the unarmed survivors run away.

I took this to mean you could split a mob before battle to cover their escape, sorry 'bout that.

If Orzel is willing to spend a turn healing infectection on all those with a considerable level I'll let myself be healed, and encourage him to use the med-kit. If not I'm barricading again.

Orzel
2009-11-26, 07:01 PM
yeah . I'll look for misc for now . Hand me all the meds tomorrow so I can heal themost infected and injured then. dormant myself .

Inhuman Bot
2009-11-26, 09:35 PM
My thoughts Jontom. This game is over way to fast. 3 days? To me it should last longer.

Indeed.
searching for weapons and someone to RP with

Xykon_Fan
2009-11-26, 10:54 PM
Alright then. Barricade for one.

Jontom Xire
2009-11-27, 03:51 AM
I took this to mean you could split a mob before battle to cover their escape, sorry 'bout that.

No, you can split a mob after battle. Actually I think that text is left over from the old way where you had to make an agility roll to run away, but I preferred needing to win a round of combat so changed the rules for this game and forgot to tidy that bit up - I'll fix it now.


My thoughts Jontom. This game is over way to fast. 3 days? To me it should last longer.

That was my estimate based on the current tactics and death rate. They have to survive a full 5 nights to win, and I felt that was being a bit generous frankly, but would give some of them a chance to survive. I'm happy to make it longer, perhaps 8 days.

I agree that it's all a bit quick, but it's difficult to find the fine line between zombies being basically ineffectual so that the players rapidly reach a position where they outnumber zombies and being so overpowered by the zombies that they'll be lucky to last 5 nights. It doesn't help that the players have been basing their tactics on the previous games despite all of my hints. I even told you about the simulation I ran where all of you scavenged by day and hid at night and how there was a 50% death rate after two nights.

So, in the interests of making the game last a bit longer, here is what I think you should have been doing from day one:

Day phase:

1) 1/4 to 1/3 of the survivors scavenge. Ideally only 1/4 or less scavenge on day 1 and they scavenge for construction materials. Once you get those construction materials you can use them to let more people scavenge and can then start scavenging for weapons and medicine. Probably mostly medicine.
2) Everyone else barricades.

Night phase:

Maybe one or two people with exceptional hiding skills hide. Everyone else defends the barricade. In fact I'd recommend that EVERYONE goes in the barricade. Why? Safety in numbers. Zombies attack the barricade individually. If you get it string enough they have a very low chance of getting in. If they do get in it'll be on a 1 to 1 basis and for probably less than 3 rounds of combat, so anyone attacked has a reasonable chance of surviving, although to counter that it will only be the stronger zombies that get in anyway, so if a weaker player gets targetted they are more likely to die.

Generally you need to co-ordinate. The first thing that should have happened this day phase was the med-kit being given to the healer. The second thing should have been those in serious need of healing lining up to get healed. The third thing should have been EVERYONE barricading so as to make a big enough barricade for the healer and those being healed too. And more communication too.

Anyway, you have 3 hours left.

Jontom Xire
2009-11-27, 03:59 AM
Actually I just reviewed the rules and what it says is:



Survivors cannot attack zombies unless they possess a weapon capable of harming a zombie. A mob of survivors, some with such weapons and some without, cannot attack zombies and if attacked by them cannot damage them. However on encountering zombie(s) the members of the mob with weapons can form a smaller mob and attack the zombie(s) while the unarmed survivors run away.


What I did in the previous game was make it so the unarmed survivors, or thsoe with weapons that couldn't harm zombies, still contributed their strength to the fight, and wrote it up that they held the zombies down while the ones with zombie damaging weapons used them on the prone and helpless zombies.

I actually kind of like that idea, so i think I'll junk this rule.

Jontom Xire
2009-11-27, 04:34 AM
yeah . I'll look for misc for now . Hand me all the meds tomorrow so I can heal themost infected and injured then. dormant myself .

Probably a mistake. Malignant infection means tomorrow may be too late.


Indeed.
searching for weapons and someone to RP with

You're dead. A zombie in fact. When it's night phase, PM me with whether you want to:

A) Try to sneak into the barricade.
B) Attack the barricade.
C) Search the streets.


Alright then. Barricade for one.

There are several other people barricading. All people barricading contribute to a single barricade and decide the size of the barricade between themselves. Currently there is a total of 20 STR being contributed to the barricade. A barricade of size 1 would be wastefully small since if you put 2 people in it it would still be absolutely impenetrable. No-one has told me whether they are using Duct Tape or not, which would improve the barricade slightly.


It might help if someone took nominal command...

Good idea. And when you have a good idea you should act on it, in this case by nominating someone to take charge.

====

Master of Mockery said he was prepared to heal BanTheSun. BanTheSun said he was prepared to be healed (although he referred to Orzel) so I will assume that this turn MoM is healing BTS.

Freshmeat
2009-11-27, 04:43 AM
No-one has told me whether they are using Duct Tape or not, which would improve the barricade slightly.

I'll respond to the rest in a bit, although I agree that we should work together more, that the game is a little too short and that this game requires a different approach than previous zombie games.

My question for now is: do we still have the duct tape? I assumed that the two duct tapes Mordokai, TehSheen and I found yesterday were lost when Mordokai and TehSheen died. If we still have them however, I don't think anyone would mind if we used both today.

Jontom Xire
2009-11-27, 05:53 AM
The one Mordokai had was lost when he became a zombie.

However since no-one stated who received the items after scavenging when there were more than two of you, and since TehSheen said he was helping you, Freshmeant, I defaulted it so that Freshmeat got the duct tape.

Quick item listing:

CoT: Blowtorch
Freshmeat: Duct tape
MoM: Medkit(3)
Nehh: Poison pill
Orzel: Paracetamol(2)
Sanity: Uzi ammo (2)
Xykon_Fan: Poison pill
Yspoch: Air rifle

Freshmeat
2009-11-27, 06:14 AM
Then I'll pass the duct tape to calar and have him use it while he's constructing a barricade.

As for the barricade size, I have a question:
Unless I'm mistaken, the total value of strength contributed to the barricades is currently 22 (duct tape included). If we divide this by 6 spaces, we get a result of 3.6 being added to the 1d6 roll. Is this value rounded up or down?
If down, we might as well construct a barricade for 7 people, as the result of 3.1 won't change our result yet still allow us to put one more survivor into the barricades.

Constructing for 5 might work, but I agree that putting more priority on putting lots of people inside the barricades is best. Yet constructing a size 8 barricade would -probably- make it too weak. So 7 seems like an okay number to me.

Jontom Xire
2009-11-27, 06:17 AM
Rounded down because it's easier.

You're not actually barricading, Freshmeat, but in the absence of any other decision before midday (36 minutes remaining) I'll take 7 as the barricade size.

However as Master of Mockery is now healing rather than barricading, the total STR value is now only 15. So you may want to make that size 5 instead.

Your choice.

Jontom Xire
2009-11-27, 08:18 AM
As day draws to a close the survivors gather together to show the fruits of their labours. One group had built a fine sturdy looking seven person barricade.

Marcus had found a sniper rifle, Anya had found a satchel, Norman had found a first-aid kit, Dr. White had found some nails, and Matt had found a cleaver.

Suddenly Oog lurched and fell to his knees. His moans became twisted so they started to sound like someone saying "Braaiiiiiinnnnsssssss". Hurriedly he fumbled in his pocket and then stuffed something in his mouth. Then he started twitching spasmodically, foaming at the mouth, before falling to the floor, dead.


Scavenge results are:
Crown of Thorns: Sniper rifle (1 shot ammo)
Freshmeat: Satchel
Nehh: First aid kit
Orzel: Nails (2 uses)
Yspoch: Cleaver

The barricade will fit 7 people and is very strong looking. Grab a place if you can, barricaders get first call.

Xykon Fan's infection got the better of him so he decided to use his poison pill rather than become a zombie. If you like, XF, you can take over Sanity's character.

Master of Mockery's attempt to heal BanTheSun's infection failed.


If there are any redistributions of items, post them now.
I need to know if you are going to hide, hide and snipe (specify target), wander through the streets yelling Get yooouurr fresh brains heerreeee!!!!", or defend the barricade. If hiding and you have a zombie damaging weapon then I need to know at what point you want to run away. If you don't say you won't run away. Those with guns, remember that you can shoot from inside the barricade at any zombies that attack it.

Zombies, please PM me with whether you wish to sneak into barricades, attack barricades, or search the streets.

Survivors, feel free to suggest actions for any survivors who might be inactive.

Xykon_Fan, let me know if you want to take over Sanity's character.

Zombies, if you don't PM me I will decide your actions randomly.

banthesun
2009-11-27, 08:29 AM
Does "failed" mean healed 1 but increased 1? 'cos it seems I'd have had to been healed at least 1 level ([5 + 1d6] / 6 = 1-2).

If the barricade would be better suited for weaker people I'll hide, preferably with Nehh's poison pill. Otherwise I'll cower in the barricades.

Jontom Xire
2009-11-27, 08:52 AM
Nope.

If you are being healed you automatically won't get worse.

A med kit gives -1 bonus to healing infection if you look. 5 -1 + 1d6 must be 6 or over to heal. MoM rolled a 1. It was really really bad luck. XF rolled a 6 for his infection getting worse. If I could have swapped the numbers round I would have, but I did too much of that in the playtest game.

If Orzel had been healing you instead it would have been an automatic success. But he decided to go scavenging instead.

Also note that you tomorrow you could have 2 people healing you, one healing injury and the other infection. Also MoM could have been healing XF at the same time as healing you and then he wouldn't have died, but he took a gamble to try and save the lives of others and lost.

If my calculations are correct, only three of you need to hide on the streets tonight.

Orzel
2009-11-27, 09:46 AM
I was hoping that he'd survive a day and I could got feal healing mode with more people. But he rolled a 6. Wow.

Dr. White sighs heavily. "I won't hake that mistake again. I'll heal each and every one of your ailment. Whoever is strongest, take these nails I found."
He clinbs into the barricade after one quick glance at his poor decision.

Yspoch
2009-11-27, 10:08 AM
I'll give the cleaver to Tod the tank (Sanity702) and then hide and snipe.

I'll try to protect one of the other non-barricade-people.

Jontom Xire
2009-11-27, 10:27 AM
I was hoping that he'd survive a day and I could got feal healing mode with more people. But he rolled a 6. Wow.


Just to do the maths, CON=4 means a 1 in 3 chance of becoming a zombie.

I'll need someone to respond to Orzel's nails offer to receive them.

Yspoch, if you don't later specify who you cover, I'll be picking randomly.

End of posting will be midday Monday as I doubt I'll get on over the weekend.

Etcetera
2009-11-27, 11:01 AM
Does anyone want a sniper rifle? I'm not going to use it much.

Marcus will defend the barricade.

This may be a stupid question, but does the blowtorch last for one round or one phase?

Yspoch
2009-11-27, 11:09 AM
Hui! That sniper rifle looks great! If nobody else wants it, I would like to use that one shot tonight - I could lend/give my air rifle to someone else instead.

Etcetera
2009-11-27, 12:05 PM
Well, you're optimized for it, so unless BishFish really really wants it you can have it.

Freshmeat
2009-11-27, 12:27 PM
I'll defend the barricade.

A quick thought about sniping: since we lack short-range guns and those that hide generally have low strength and thus probably won't be carrying around melee weapons, wouldn't it be better if our snipers directed their aim at the barricades? While we certainly won't be slaughtering zombies by the dozens, it makes sense to concentrate our fire on one point. If we can get the cleaver- and blowtorch-wielder inside the barricades, and have two hiding snipers (with the sniper/air rifle) covering it, we might just kill a zombie tonight. Two if we're lucky. It's not much, and we may need to reassign our weapons to those that are specced for it, but every little bit helps.

I may be misreading the way sniping works though. Unless I'm mistaken, a sniper who isn't found can protect someone else who does get found (among other options). However, he'll only get one round of attack against said target, which will almost assuredly not be enough to kill that zombie. So unless the discovered hider is carrying some sort of lethal weapon to finish the presumably-wounded zombie off, he still can't damage the zombie any further and thus the sniper's efforts are somewhat wasted. A wounded zombie is still every bit as dangerous, after all. Considering we have a perpetually short supply of ammo, it therefore seems wiser to concentrate our fire so as to improve our odds of killing one or two zombies, rather than wounding three or four of them.

Wizibirb
2009-11-27, 01:16 PM
I is back, well at least for now, Has anyone found a melee weapon they do not want?
Sorry I was away but I am back now almost flu free to!

(also I have a question about the first scavenge results. How did I find Uzi ammo with a search for melee weapons? :smallfrown:)

Tod will hide (far far away from the barricade)

Nehh
2009-11-27, 01:28 PM
If Banthesun wants my pill i will give him it.

Hide and run.

Orzel
2009-11-27, 01:48 PM
Just to do the maths, CON=4 means a 1 in 3 chance of becoming a zombie.



Just bad rolls.

I had to roll lower than a 2 to get nails (5 int + 1 misc vs 9 or more to get a medium item).

1 in 3 chance of me getting a low item
1 in 3 chance of him zombifying
1 in 6 chance of both

Deathslayer7
2009-11-27, 01:55 PM
1/3*1/3 is 1/9 not 1/6 :smallwink:

Freshmeat
2009-11-27, 02:03 PM
I is back, well at least for now, Has anyone found a melee weapon they do not want?

Ayup:

I'll give the cleaver to Tod the tank (Sanity702) and then hide and snipe


(also I have a question about the first scavenge results. How did I find Uzi ammo with a search for melee weapons? :smallfrown:)

Weapon scavenge rolls are combined (so you can find either a melee or a ranged weapon).


Tod will hide (far far away from the barricade)


You sure? It seems rather risky to hide out in the maze with a hide score of just 2, especially what with our current barricade being large enough that only three people will need to hide in the maze tonight (we've got Nehh and Yspoch as hiders so far, and I'm suspecting calar will hide too).

Etcetera
2009-11-27, 02:18 PM
Right. I might give Tod the blow torch, but defence of the barricade is my primary objective. Since Marcus has a low strength anyone else in the barricade with a higher strength that two can take it. Ideally, whoever is most skilled in melee combat.

Yspoch
2009-11-27, 02:24 PM
Hm, Freshmeat is right - i forgot the air rifle is a special case distracting the target instead of damaging it.

So....

give air rifle to Nehh who i suggest uses it to protect the third "hider" (is that a word?)
take sniper rifle, hide and snipe at zombie attacking the barricade


And i would also suggest that Sanity seeks shelter in the barricade and cleaves at those zombies who manage to break/sneak in.

Xykon_Fan
2009-11-27, 04:47 PM
:smallannoyed:

Thought that would happen. No worries. I'll focus on the WW games I'm playing now that Sanity's back.

Good luck, you guys.

Wizibirb
2009-11-27, 09:32 PM
You mean if I hide in the barricade I get a blow torch DEAL!

Tod the tank will keep the barricade together.

Etcetera
2009-11-28, 04:23 AM
You can have the blowtorch unless anyone objects.

Yspoch
2009-11-28, 04:57 AM
As Tod is taking the blowtorch, somebody else can take the cleaver. If nobody claims it, it should default to the one with the next highest melee score in the barricade.

Freshmeat
2009-11-28, 06:24 AM
A quick equipment list:

{table]Player | Item(s)
Crown of Thorns |
Freshmeat | Satchel
MoM | Medkit (2)
Nehh | Poison Pill, Medkit (3), Air Rifle
Orzel | Paracetamol, Nails (2)
Sanity | Uzi Ammo (2), Cleaver, Blowtorch
Yspoch | Sniper Rifle
Bishfish |
calar |
banthesun |[/table]

To reduce the odds of us losing a bunch of items in one go we might want to reassign a couple of them:


Nehh's poison pill -> to banthesun: the heal attempt on him failed, so by my calculations banthesun is still injured and still has a malignant infection. It seems like a safe bet to give him the pill.
Nehh's medkit --> to calar: calar is stronger and tougher, and has better hiding skills.
Orzel's nails --> to Bishfish: for what it's worth, BF is slightly stronger. The nails will probably come in handy throughout the next couple of days, so we don't want to lose them yet. In addition, it also spreads out the items we're holding on to better.
Sanity's cleaver -> to banthesun: damaged or not, he's still our second-best melee fighter.

Alternatively, we could give banthesun the blowtorch and Sanity the cleaver. Keep in mind that the blowtorch will be useless after we use it once, as it's dependent on fuel. It's not too likely that we'll find more fuel before the end of the game. In a way, the blowtorch is therefore more expendable than the cleaver and should thus be given to the one more likely to die of our melee fighter pair (i.e. the already-wounded banthesun). As such, I would actually suggest we give Sanity the cleaver and banthesun the blowtorch. This covers our bases best.
The satchel and uzi ammo: both are only of marginal interest at this point, particularly the satchel (I doubt we'll run into a shortage of inventory space before the end of the game anyway), so for the sake of reducing all item movement to their bare minimum, I'd say we could leave them where they are.

Thoughts?

Etcetera
2009-11-28, 07:05 AM
Looks good to me. Can we get a proper table done so as to prevent having to go back to the first page so often (if no-one has the time I'll do it).

With three hiding and the rest of us in the barricade, how many people do we think we'll lose tonight?

banthesun
2009-11-28, 07:40 AM
Thanks for the planning Freshmeat, but I'd rather not try to kill zombies at this point. If I'm involved in a fight for more than one turn I'm likely to become a zombie, and an attempt to kill a zombie wont mean anything if I just replace it. Personally, I'd rather try to survive for a while. I say save the weapons till you have a large enough group. I'm willing to recieve the posion pill though. No harm in that.

Freshmeat
2009-11-28, 10:29 AM
Yes, it appears I was mistaken in regards to melee combat. I assumed that on a successful melee roll (i.e. one you win) you can damage the zombies and then decide to run away or continue combat. But it's one or the other. In that case, as far as melee is concerned, the lethality of our weapons (as well as the fuel in the blowtorch) matters little as we'll probably push back any zombies we encounter at the earliest opportunity.

calar
2009-11-28, 11:45 AM
Sry, I was off for the last couple days. Im going to Hide and run.

MasterofMockery
2009-11-28, 12:39 PM
Hide in the barricade unless someone needs the space more than I. And give medkit to Dr. Ike White

So now that we're cooperating, what are our actions for the next turn, If we decide these now we can coordinate what we are going to do and can try to account for what happens in the night. I will give my med-kit to Orzel because frankly I don't want to roll a one and waste another use, Banthesun should take refuge in the strength 8 barricade he built for me, It is freaking impenetrable and should lure a couple zombies off from the main barricade.

Etcetera
2009-11-28, 01:08 PM
Right. Well, assuming I survive the night I'll scavenge for more weapons.

BishFish
2009-11-28, 07:02 PM
Hide and run
William, still scared from the night before, tries to find a better place to hide.

Nehh
2009-11-29, 04:16 AM
Okay, I'm giving banthesun my pill, and sniping with the air rifle on whoever the third hider is..

If anyone needs the medkit I will happily give them it.

Jontom Xire
2009-11-30, 05:00 AM
Hide in the barricade unless someone needs the space more than I. And give medkit to Dr. Ike White

So now that we're cooperating, what are our actions for the next turn, If we decide these now we can coordinate what we are going to do and can try to account for what happens in the night. I will give my med-kit to Orzel because frankly I don't want to roll a one and waste another use, Banthesun should take refuge in the strength 8 barricade he built for me, It is freaking impenetrable and should lure a couple zombies off from the main barricade.


There is only one barricade.

Strength 8 is not impenetrable. A zombie with strength 3 and a roll of 6 would get in for one round of combat.

---

Ok, to summarise actions, because I tried my hardest to interpret your posts correctly, but it is a little confusing:

There are 6 people in a barricade built for 7. That's everyone except...

BishFish and Calar who are hiding.
Nehh who is hiding and sniping with the air rifle to cover Calar (I would have though Yspoch would be a better choice).
Yspoch who is hiding and sniping with the sniper rifle to shoot one random zombie attacking the barricades.

Yspoch
2009-11-30, 05:20 AM
I just updated the excel file and I got the same actions. BishFish should take the last spot in the barricade if it's not too late, because he's only hiding for 4 and every other one outside the barricade has a hiding skill of 5+. (Or did he take Stealth as ability? I didn't find it)

Yes, I would be a better choice to be protected. Calar is better at hiding. :smallcool:

I think Crown of Thorns has the cleaver (but I'm not sure).

Jontom Xire
2009-11-30, 05:59 AM
I just updated the excel file and I got the same actions. BishFish should take the last spot in the barricade if it's not too late, because he's only hiding for 4 and every other one outside the barricade has a hiding skill of 5+. (Or did he take Stealth as ability? I didn't find it)

Yes, I would be a better choice to be protected. Calar is better at hiding. :smallcool:

I think Crown of Thorns has the cleaver (but I'm not sure).

On my spreadsheet BanTheSun has the cleaver.

It would be nice if I could share just one row of my Google spreadsheet for each of you so you can see what you have.

Yspoch
2009-11-30, 06:12 AM
There is no diffrence between "hiding in the barricade" and "defending the barricade", is there? So if a zombie breaks in, he attacks a random member who fights back (alone).

And if banthesun dies (poison pill) while inside the barricade, the items he is holding are not lost, correct?

What happens if someone inside the barricade is zombified? Nothing special I think, except that the items the new zombie had are lost in that case.

If the things above are true, then it's for the best if banthesun has the cleaver and nothing needs to be changed.

Jontom Xire
2009-11-30, 07:24 AM
If a player dies inside the barricade (not zombified) then technically the items he is holding are lost. On account of how I don't want to have special case rules cluttering up the ruleset.

On point 1 you are absolutely correct.

Updating starts now.

Jontom Xire
2009-11-30, 08:29 AM
There weren't many zombies on the streets tonight. Most of them were attracted to this shiny new barricade, all big and bright and smelling of lots of fresh warm brains. Of the zombies that did roam the streets, most were unable to find any of those hiding. But four zombies did find something to feed on that night. And unerringly they all homed in on Matt Quigley. Matt never stood a chance and was soon torn apart, only to rise again, a few minutes later, as an extremely shabby and, well, torn apart zombie.

Meanwhile three of the many zombies hammering at the barricade managed to find a weak chink to attack through. One attacked Earl Sinclair who was able to fend it off without difficulty. Anya and Dr White were not so lucky, but survived.



Yspoch was found, attacked, and became a zombie.
Master of Mockery was attacked but was unharmed.
Freshmeat was attacked and is now "scratched".
Orzel was attacked and is now "injured".


Well done on keeping the casualties down tonight. Day 3 starts, can I have day actions, please.

Yspoch
2009-11-30, 08:34 AM
"Braaaaaaainssssss..."

(Hehe, fun! Looking forward to the next iteration! Sorry for losing the sniper rifle guys. :smallfrown: Edit: But now i'm coming for your brains! :smalltongue:)

Orzel
2009-11-30, 10:41 AM
Post your health everyone. Health and infection.

Etcetera
2009-11-30, 11:13 AM
I'm healthy for both.

I reckon we need to get say, half of our survivors working on a strong enough barricade to take everyone if need be, and have the rest scavenge or heal depending on injuries. I intend to scavenge for anything, as we could do with most items at the moment anyway.

Freshmeat
2009-11-30, 12:49 PM
I'm scratched but otherwise uninfected.

I'll search for construction materials today (gogo hammer, nailgun or cement!)

Wizibirb
2009-11-30, 02:36 PM
Ill be searching for a weapon today! Ill be searching for a weapon today!
anyone want to help me?


((just in case someone didn't understand that scavenge weapons))

BishFish
2009-11-30, 06:14 PM
Will, after a night unscathed, assess the situation and decides to look for weapons. ((search w/ sanity))

I am healty and dormant infection.

Nehh
2009-12-01, 02:08 AM
I'm uninjured; scavenge for weapons.

Orzel
2009-12-01, 03:04 AM
I have Paracetamol (2) Medikit (2)

Tell me if you want to be heal

otherwise I'll weapon misc scavenge.

Freshmeat
2009-12-01, 03:38 AM
Where's the love for construction materials and barricading? :smallfrown:

6 out of 9 players have posted a scavenge action so far, and I'm guessing that MoM will scavenge too, given that he's specialized in it. That leaves two people to (hopefully) construct a barricade for tonight which I'm pretty sure won't suffice. We'll need at least twice that number. Considering that Anatheron and Yspoch had +5 to hide checks, yet both still died in one go, I'd say hiding is still pretty risky, even if you're good at it.

In my opinion, weapons are overrated anyway. We only need to survive three more nights. A single rifle shot against a lone zombie won't help us much (as ranged weapons are typically loaded with only one set of ammo), nor will any melee weapons that pretty much says 'to use me properly, you must stand and deliver rather than push and run.'

(I'm referring to this rule in particular):

If survivors win the "To Hit" roll they may choose to push back the zombies and run away rather than deal damage. This is automatic if they do not actually possess any weapons capable of damaging zombies.

Etcetera
2009-12-01, 11:05 AM
Well, I'm scavenging for misc, but I will change that to construction materials. If we don't have at least four barricaders I'll help barricade.

calar
2009-12-01, 06:26 PM
I'll help Nehh scavange. Btw I'm still at full health.

banthesun
2009-12-01, 07:11 PM
I'll be barricading today. I've got a pill so my infection is less of a worry.

MasterofMockery
2009-12-01, 08:00 PM
Where's the love for construction materials and barricading? :smallfrown:

6 out of 9 players have posted a scavenge action so far, and I'm guessing that MoM will scavenge too, given that he's specialized in it. That leaves two people to (hopefully) construct a barricade for tonight which I'm pretty sure won't suffice. We'll need at least twice that number. Considering that Anatheron and Yspoch had +5 to hide checks, yet both still died in one go, I'd say hiding is still pretty risky, even if you're good at it.

In my opinion, weapons are overrated anyway. We only need to survive three more nights. A single rifle shot against a lone zombie won't help us much (as ranged weapons are typically loaded with only one set of ammo), nor will any melee weapons that pretty much says 'to use me properly, you must stand and deliver rather than push and run.'

(I'm referring to this rule in particular):


I agree with you 100% but really can't help barricade though, I would reccomend building multiple barricades rather than one mega-fortress

Players who are barricading decide amongst themselves how big a barricade they need, how many people it should shelter. They add together the STR stats of all the characters helping to build the barricade, plus any modifiers from items to get the barricading total. This value is divided by the size of the barricade (rounded down), and then they add 1d6 for the base strength of the building they are barricading, to get the barricade's defence value.
Which means that on every barricade it is all of the str combined modifiers plus 1d6, And no matter how many people build it the 1d6 will be added once. Say there are 6 people, 2 are scavengers, and 4 are barricaders with a +5 bonus. If they split up and build 2 barricades for 3 they have
5+5+1d6/3= approximately 4.5 barricade strength without any modifiers.
or if they build one for six
5+5+5+5+1d6/4= 4 barricade strength without modifiers.

If we tried to build one barricade for 6(I am thinking that if Nehh, Calar, and Yspoch hide as a mob, then they should be able to fend off the zombies as most will be preoccupied with the barricade) using everyone with a higher str than int

5+3+5+3+1d6/6 we would get a strength 3 barricade at best but if we form 2 barricades we get
5+3=1d6/3 an average barricade strength of 4 for the 2 barricades, not impenetrable but should absorb some of the zombie attack rounds. Then all of the scavengers work on gathering construction materials and we try to set up some permanant barricades.

Also is the strength 8 barricade still up from night one, or did it expire.
And last scavenge for construction materials

Nehh
2009-12-02, 12:37 AM
Okay. Good news, guys: me and Calar are scavenging together. We've got one good chance of a great weapon coming up!

Jontom Xire
2009-12-02, 03:33 AM
I agree with you 100% but really can't help barricade though, I would reccomend building multiple barricades rather than one mega-fortress

==SNIP==


I've said this before, but it appears I need to say it again:

You can only build ONE barricade at a time!

And you need to build a new one each day, you can't reuse barricades from a previous day/night.

Jontom Xire
2009-12-02, 04:56 AM
5+3+5+3+1d6/6 we would get a strength 3 barricade at best but if we form 2 barricades we get
5+3=1d6/3 an average barricade strength of 4 for the 2 barricades, not impenetrable but should absorb some of the zombie attack rounds. Then all of the scavengers work on gathering construction materials and we try to set up some permanant barricades.


Just to add some additional clarification as you have your maths wrong.

If you had 4 people making a 6 person barricade and their strengths were 5, 3, 5, 3 then all making 1 barricade, the total would be:

(5+3+5+3)/6 + 1d6 = 2 + 1d6

If you were making 2 barricades the totals would be:

(5+3)/3 + 1d6 = 2 + 1d6

So no difference there then.

However if you were aiming at a 5 person barricade then one big barricade would be:

(5+3+5+3)/5 + 1d6 = 3 + 1d6

Whereas two barricades would give:

(5+3)/3 + 1d6 = 2 + 1d6
(5+3)/2 + 1d6 = 3 + 1d6

So one of the barricades would be weaker than having one big barricade.

I.e. a single big barricade is better.

Freshmeat
2009-12-02, 05:03 AM
A quick action list for today, to illustrate a few points below:
(yes, I like to win)

{table]Player | Action | Modifier
Freshmeat | scavenging construction materials | +5
Nehh & calar | scavenging weapons | +5
Crown of Thorns | scavenging construction materials | +6
Orzel | scavenging miscellaneous | +6
MoM | scavenging construction materials | +6
Sanity & Bishfish | scavenging weapons | either +3 or +4
banthesun | barricading | +5[/table]

To me, it seems like we've got three options here:

We keep things like this and we'll probably get slaughtered tonight for lack of a large enough barricade
We keep things like this and we deliberately throw one or two people to the zombies in the hopes that they'll attract attention away from the rest. We can then probably use our newly-gathered construction items to increase our odds of surviving the last two nights. Somewhat risky as we may still get slaughtered even if we have volunteers to be sacrificial lambs, and we'll probably have lost a few choice items by tomorrow morning.
We change our actions a little. Far be it from I to tell other people how to play the game, but some actions just seem strange to me. For example, I can't seem to fathom why Sanity and Bishfish would want to scavenge for weapons today, when they still have a not-inconsiderable chance of finding nothing or junk even when working together. Sanity has a high strength (+5) [good for barricading] and a poor intelligence (+2) [bad at scavenging]. Why play to your disadvantage?
By the same token, helping people scavenge seems like a poor idea under almost circumstance. Those that are good at scavenging are capable of doing it on their own, whereas those that are bad at it can probably spend their skills better elsewhere (a +1 scavenging bonus just doesn't compare to a bigger barricade at this point).

Jontom Xire
2009-12-02, 06:55 AM
Just what I was wanting to say.

Crown of Thorns, one of the two top scavengers, currently has "barricade" as his action purely because no-one else is!

And Freshmeat? Feel the frustration!! Now you know how I feel in every game I get really involved in when you analyse and tell people what the best strategy is and they still insist on doing something else. I think the key here is that at least half the group are more interested in trying to have fun beating up zombies (as per the previous two test games) rather than playing to win.

My suggested strategy in this situation is to let them go out and scavenge weapons and then refuse to let them into the barricade. They can be your sacrificial victims to help the rest of you survive! After all, the more people hiding, the fewer zombies will attack the barricade. You could always barricade yourself rather than scavenge. With three barricading, you might just be able to squeeze in Orzel and MoM as well.

Anyway, I was going to end turn here, but I need to pop out for my lunch break. When I get back that will be it and I'll put up the update.

Jontom Xire
2009-12-02, 07:36 AM
End of Day Three:

The scavenging parties return with their finds. Anya found a hammer and nails. William and Tod found a blowtorch. Seamus and Norman find 2 sniper rifle rounds. Pity the sniper rifle was lost the previous night. Still, perhaps you can throw them at the zombies before they tear you to shreds. Dr. White found a beretta round. Earl sinclair got the best find; a nail gun with a full cartridge of nails.


Freshmeat found hammer and nails.
Sanity702 and BishFish found a blowtorch. Who gets it?
Calar and Nehh found two sniper rifle rounds. Who gets them?
Orzel found a beretta round.
Master of Mockery found a nail gun.

I need to know how big the barricade will be. Size 2 gives a barricade strength of 4 + 1d6. Size 3 or 4 gives a barricade strength of 2 + 1d6. Personally I'd go for size 4 and let all those who didn't look for useful items or help barricade suffer.


Night 3 starts so get your night actions in!

Orzel
2009-12-02, 08:40 AM
I'm the doc. I can't do anything but heal and scavenge. I should have healed myself. I hope i get a spot in the barricade.

Jontom Xire
2009-12-02, 09:44 AM
You could have scavenged for construction items. You could have healed someone. And every little bit helps when it comes to barricading.

Oh and I forgot to check infections.

Sorry, BanTheSun, but your malignant infection just pushed you over the edge - but the poison pill stops you becoming a zombie.

Which also reminds me - can the zombies PM me their night actions too, please.

Actually I think if I were playing, Orzel would be my favourite for leaving out in the cold. He's a doctor, he has healing, but despite two players with a malignant infection and one who also has serious injuries, he hasn't actually done any healing. Both people with malignant infections have since died. Not a very useful doctor = not a very useful player, so probably the most use he can be to the group as a whole is to draw zombies away from the barricade and the other players who are hiding.

Orzel
2009-12-02, 10:18 AM
I asked everyone to tell me if they get injured or infected. And he was the only builder so i couldn't heal him. Screw it, take my meds, i'll distract
The Zombie Horde.

calar
2009-12-02, 10:34 AM
Crud, was hoping for a good melee weapon. Oh well, hide and run as usual.

Etcetera
2009-12-02, 11:16 AM
Well, size four barricade it is, and may the gods (or whatever) be with us.

Freshmeat, you're a shining beacon of competency in a darkened worlds. Would you/everyone else be happy for you to have some sort of co-ordination(read:leader) role to prevent the remaining survivors from sealing their doom in an idiocy shaped package?

Barricading should be a priority, as an uzi will do a fat lot of good if you have ten or so zombies chasing you through the streets. We need to be sure that we'll have a strong enough barricade each night before we even think about scavenging.

We haven't taken out any zombies yet (I think), and with rapidly declining numbers we're not likely to take out any more, so safety should be our primary consideration. Assuming 5 people survive the night (and even then some may be injured or infected), as many as possible should work on barricading, with a strength of AT LEAST 5.

tl:dr - Unless we get organised quickly we won't survive another day, if we do we might survive one or two more.

Wizibirb
2009-12-02, 12:27 PM
the man who scavenged with me can have the blow torch seeing as how i have my own.

(hiding in barricade! If it makes people feel better I will help build the barricade tom.)

Etcetera
2009-12-02, 01:56 PM
If your strength is more than 0, then yes, you should probably help with barricading. Assuming you survive the night.

BishFish
2009-12-02, 02:37 PM
stats reference table!
TehSheen
str 4
agl 2
con 4
int 3
melee fighting
Freshmeat
str 2
agl 4
con 3
int 4
scavenging
Yspoch
str 2
agl 5
con 2
int 4
Shooting
Orzel
str 2
agl 3
con 3
int 5
heal
Calar
str 3
agl 5
con 3
int 2
stealth
Anatharon
str 2
agl 5
con 3
int 3
Shooting
Crown of thorns
str 3
agl 3
con 2
int 5
scavenging
Xykon fan
str 4
agl 2
con 4
int 3
Melee combat
Nehh
str 2
agl 4
con 3
int 4
Stealth
Mordokai
str 2
agl 4
con 3
int 4
Healing
Banthesun
str 4
agl 3
con 4
int 2
Sanity
str 5
agl 2
con 4
int 2
Melee
BishFish
str 3
agl 4
con 3
int 3
MasterOfMockery
str 2
agl 3
con 3
int 5
I would like to be inside a barricade

banthesun
2009-12-02, 05:44 PM
One thing I might have misunderstood, but between malignent and zombie is a spreading infection. Is a poison pill automatically used for spreading, or can you die from malignent? If poison pill is being used, wouldn't it be smarter to use it once a zombie finds you, to give some sort of protection to the team?

Freshmeat
2009-12-02, 07:10 PM
Well, size four barricade it is, and may the gods (or whatever) be with us.

Freshmeat, you're a shining beacon of competency in a darkened worlds. Would you/everyone else be happy for you to have some sort of co-ordination(read:leader) role to prevent the remaining survivors from sealing their doom in an idiocy shaped package?

Well, it wouldn't kill us to have some sort of coherent plan. I think the (predictably) poor weapon scavenging results and the interest in getting into the barricade (should) indicate that some people are catching on, at last. Our best shot is just to turtle up and let a handful of scavengers search for construction materials. Forget about finding weapons or medicine. We don't need the former and we can make do with what we have concerning the latter.

It's somewhat annoying that about half of our actions got wasted today, but since pettiness won't really help us much, I won't factor it into my calculations. As of now, we've got 8 people left, and 4 barricade spots:

CoT will presumably hide in the barricade. Sanity and Bishfish have already claimed spots as well. That seems acceptable, although I really hope they see the value in both of them building barricades for the next two days (especially since we just lost a good barricader with banthesun).
I'd say the last spot should go to MoM then. In an ideal situation, we'll build a large barricade tomorrow (with the aid of the items we found today) while a few choice scavengers find some last-minute items, and on the last day everyone barricades. Agility hardly factors into this, which makes MoM's stats better than mine in the days to come. In addition, I'm already wounded a little (scratched, to be precise) whereas MoM is still healthy (IIRC).

That leaves calar and myself as hiders and Orzel as a distractor of sorts. I assume Nehh will hide as well.


I don't have access to my notes at this point, but I'll pass my hammer along to Sanity. I suggest that whoever has those extra nails does the same. Sanity is the toughest and strongest and will have the largest chance of survival. We may want to make a similar call on the nailgun, which we definitely don't want to lose tonight. Calar perhaps?

Nehh
2009-12-03, 12:18 AM
Just one thing - how are we hiding tonight? Together or in a group? Or on our own?

Just one note: If the zombies find me on my own, I'm almost certainly dead. No weapons, and STR 2.

Freshmeat
2009-12-03, 03:41 AM
Just one thing - how are we hiding tonight? Together or in a group? Or on our own?

I'd suggest on our own. A couple of days ago, when we still had more players, JX mentioned there were three times as much zombies as survivors at the time (things are worse now, obviously). Taking a -1 penalty on our hide checks so us weak hiders can pool our strength isn't worth it, as our strength is pitiful to being with and our reduced hide roll will simply mean we'll get mauled by 3-5 more zombies in the same night. With the exception of those with very high agility or stealth, hiding is pretty luck-based at this point as we're up against 50%+ more zombies than under normal circumstances. But since our barricade can only house 4 people, we don't have much of a choice here.


Just one note: If the zombies find me on my own, I'm almost certainly dead. No weapons, and STR 2.

This has been a problem from the start. Hence the constant need for barricades.

Jontom Xire
2009-12-03, 04:47 AM
I asked everyone to tell me if they get injured or infected. And he was the only builder so i couldn't heal him. Screw it, take my meds, i'll distract
The Zombie Horde.

You are right to a point, but maybe if he hadn't been barricading, others would have. Also you could have done both guys the day before at the same time.

Jontom Xire
2009-12-03, 04:54 AM
One thing I might have misunderstood, but between malignent and zombie is a spreading infection. Is a poison pill automatically used for spreading, or can you die from malignent? If poison pill is being used, wouldn't it be smarter to use it once a zombie finds you, to give some sort of protection to the team?

A poison pill is automatically used when you become a zombie due to infection, or voluntarily any time you declare you wish to use it.

For more info about infections and how you become a zombie from them please read the rules. I just found myself typing an explanation and I don't see why when it is clearly explained in the rules. If there is a particular aspect of the rules you don't understand, please quote them and explain what you don't understand clearly. That way I can amend the rules to improve clarity.

Yspoch
2009-12-03, 05:17 AM
Each 24 hours a player with "Malignant" or "Spreading" infection who isn't having their infection medically treated rolls 1d6. If they roll higher than their CON stat they become more infected by one state. Any player who reaches the "Zombified" infection state becomes a zombie.



Sorry, BanTheSun, but your malignant infection just pushed you over the edge - but the poison pill stops you becoming a zombie.

How could the malignant infection of BanTheSun push him over the edge, when it should just have been upped to "Spreading"?

Orzel
2009-12-03, 07:59 AM
Can't write in blue atm. I give all my items to the toughest person in the barricade.

Jontom Xire
2009-12-03, 09:07 AM
How could the malignant infection of BanTheSun push him over the edge, when it should just have been upped to "Spreading"?

You know, you're absolutely right. I never can remember what order the levels go in :( I thought malignant was the last one before zombified.

BanTheSun, you're not dead, you just have a spreading infection.
Xykon_Fan, ditto.

Can you guys remember what items you had besides the poison pills?

And my apologies to everyone.

Well spotted, Yspoch!

Jontom Xire
2009-12-03, 09:15 AM
XF, you get an extra day action. I recommend barricading as this will A) give you priority for a place in the barricade, and B) make it significantly stronger. In fact you could then go for a 6 person barriade with the same low strength, or use Oog's extra barricade to make the existing 4 man barricade 1 point stronger.

Or you could scavenge, XF. I wouldn't recommend it though and it's more work for me.

Etcetera
2009-12-03, 10:26 AM
Yay! Temporary manpower! We do need a stronger barricade, so by all means help with that.

Nehh
2009-12-03, 02:32 PM
Okay. Hide and Run.

Wizibirb
2009-12-03, 02:37 PM
How about they get a heal? as they both almost died of an infection. How about they both take antibiotics.

Etcetera
2009-12-03, 02:58 PM
If it's worth it, then yes. If they'll probably be dead by tomorrow, then use them as distractions. And yes, I realise this is by no means a nice solution. But hopefully it won't come to that. All the same, if they both take antibiotics they may end up running through the streets, chased by zombies. barricade space is at a premium.

Orzel
2009-12-03, 06:44 PM
Can I cancel my day scavenge to heal XF and BantheSun now that they aren't dead?


Also healing doesn't work well in its current form.

1) Because it uses both the healer and patients' day actions, the healer won't/can't heal unless the patient askes to be healed.

2) Because it uses both the healer and patients' day actions, healing is very low priority to scavenging and barricading when the numbers of the living gets low.

3) Healers don't know current infection rates unless the players announce them. Therefore the healer must make hope to be online at the same time at the patient to get the player's status, approval to heal them, and coordination of other heals.

I suggest night heals in the barricade for one patient.

MasterofMockery
2009-12-03, 06:45 PM
Well, it wouldn't kill us to have some sort of coherent plan. I think the (predictably) poor weapon scavenging results and the interest in getting into the barricade (should) indicate that some people are catching on, at last. Our best shot is just to turtle up and let a handful of scavengers search for construction materials. Forget about finding weapons or medicine. We don't need the former and we can make do with what we have concerning the latter.

It's somewhat annoying that about half of our actions got wasted today, but since pettiness won't really help us much, I won't factor it into my calculations. As of now, we've got 8 people left, and 4 barricade spots:

CoT will presumably hide in the barricade. Sanity and Bishfish have already claimed spots as well. That seems acceptable, although I really hope they see the value in both of them building barricades for the next two days (especially since we just lost a good barricader with banthesun).
I'd say the last spot should go to MoM then. In an ideal situation, we'll build a large barricade tomorrow (with the aid of the items we found today) while a few choice scavengers find some last-minute items, and on the last day everyone barricades. Agility hardly factors into this, which makes MoM's stats better than mine in the days to come. In addition, I'm already wounded a little (scratched, to be precise) whereas MoM is still healthy (IIRC).

That leaves calar and myself as hiders and Orzel as a distractor of sorts. I assume Nehh will hide as well.


I don't have access to my notes at this point, but I'll pass my hammer along to Sanity. I suggest that whoever has those extra nails does the same. Sanity is the toughest and strongest and will have the largest chance of survival. We may want to make a similar call on the nailgun, which we definitely don't want to lose tonight. Calar perhaps?

Agreed I'll hand my nailgun to Calar, Also I say we should aim for more of a hivemind, IE: we plan not just the best actions for ourselves but for others and discuss what how our combined actions would be best used for the preservation of the group.

Hide in the barricade unless someone else needs it more

Xykon_Fan
2009-12-03, 10:06 PM
Two barricade actions. UNLESS: I'm able to be healed with one of them by Orzel and barricade with the other.

And yeah, I'll build for however many people like, I'll throw at least one more spot on the barricade though no matter what to cover whoever I've replaced.

How many will be using the barricade tonight?

And yeah, healing tomorrow will be necessary if I'm not healed right now. Weaker characters, you better barricade tomorrow.

Besides that, I only had poison pills (not an action). I imagine I'll be getting those back.

@JX: Let us work out strategy. You're the narrator, and we're actually starting to try to work out a strategy. If you only tell us that you told us so, you'll lose players.

Jontom Xire
2009-12-04, 05:12 AM
Can I cancel my day scavenge to heal XF and BantheSun now that they aren't dead?


No. Firstly you already had a choice between scavenging and healing BanTheSun and you chose scavenging. You can't unmake that choice.




Also healing doesn't work well in its current form.

1) Because it uses both the healer and patients' day actions, the healer won't/can't heal unless the patient askes to be healed.

2) Because it uses both the healer and patients' day actions, healing is very low priority to scavenging and barricading when the numbers of the living gets low.

3) Healers don't know current infection rates unless the players announce them. Therefore the healer must make hope to be online at the same time at the patient to get the player's status, approval to heal them, and coordination of other heals.

I suggest night heals in the barricade for one patient.

I think it works fine. It's not MEANT to be easy. The whole point of this game is meant to be difficult choices. Do I scavenge or barricade? If I scavenge I can find some great item, BUT I might end up hiding on the streets rather than much safer in the barricade. Do I heal or barricade? If I heal then it increases the chances or survival of some other player or myself, but then the barricade will be weaker/smaller and they might get attacked and just die anyway.

Decisions, decisions...difficult ones too.

The play test games were too easy and consequently quite boring.


Two barricade actions. UNLESS: I'm able to be healed with one of them by Orzel and barricade with the other.


Err, sorry? You only missed one day phase unless my calculations are off. So you would have been doing something this last day except that you thought you were dead.



And yeah, I'll build for however many people like, I'll throw at least one more spot on the barricade though no matter what to cover whoever I've replaced.


If you're going to add to the size by one then you may as well add to the size by 2. There's no difference to the strength of the barricade either way.



...

Besides that, I only had poison pills (not an action). I imagine I'll be getting those back.


Yes plus any other items you had, although I don't think you had any actually.



@JX: Let us work out strategy. You're the narrator, and we're actually starting to try to work out a strategy. If you only tell us that you told us so, you'll lose players.

I'm sorry about that, but I do get frustrated going to all the trouble of setting up a game, spending hours creating complicated spreadsheet formulas to try and make the game easier to run for my co-narrator (who then got sick) only to have 20% of the players die on night 1 because no-one figured that with 1-3 slightly weaker zombies per player, going out scavenging for weapons by day and hiding on the streets by night might not be the best tactic.


Just so you all know, Freshmeat and I are having some pretty detailed game mechanic discussions that should make the game more fun next time round. The main change centres around making zombies more vulnerable and weapons more useful so that killing zombies actually becomes a slightly viable option, while retaining the fact that barricading will be safer than hiding on the streets. Currently zombies are essentially invulnerable because scavenging for weapons to kill them is a sure fire way to have a high death count and even more zombies roaming the streets. With the new rules we hope that zombie numbers will gradually reduce over the course of the game so that in the end game you can actually do some serious damage with weaponry accumulated during the game. However players should still rely almost entirely on barricading in the early game and just use ranged weapons from inside the barricade.

Yspoch
2009-12-04, 06:08 AM
I'm sorry about that, but I do get frustrated going to all the trouble of setting up a game, spending hours creating complicated spreadsheet formulas to try and make the game easier to run for my co-narrator (who then got sick) only to have 20% of the players die on night 1 because no-one figured that with 1-3 slightly weaker zombies per player, going out scavenging for weapons by day and hiding on the streets by night might not be the best tactic.


Instead of getting frustrated you might consider bursting gleefully into manical laughter - that would be the healthier choice for sure! :smalltongue:

Seriously, the "problem" with the setup of having one leader who figures out the best solution is the same as with werewolf games, where one person has all the information and is dictating the lynches. It just stops being fun for all other players (except the wolves maybe).

And different people have all different kinds of fun - sure, it clashes with the probability of overall success if you try to hide from the zombies, but if it works out (like night 1 for me) it feels more rewarding than sitting in the barricade. :smallbiggrin:

I understand that you see the glaring mistakes we (as a team or individually) make and would love to shout out to us (like I would love to do sometimes, when I watch my girlfriend playing WoW, but I sure know better! But that's another story and she has already learned much since starting... "Change to bearform! BEARFORM! NOW!!! Ahhhh..."). But in the end it's each players own decision and if it means death and destruction it's at least well earned.

Orzel
2009-12-04, 06:10 AM
I think it works fine. It's not MEANT to be easy. The whole point of this game is meant to be difficult choices. Do I scavenge or barricade? If I scavenge I can find some great item, BUT I might end up hiding on the streets rather than much safer in the barricade. Do I heal or barricade? If I heal then it increases the chances or survival of some other player or myself, but then the barricade will be weaker/smaller and they might get attacked and just die anyway.

Decisions, decisions...difficult ones too.

The play test games were too easy and consequently quite boring.


Maybe because the casuality/infection rate was so high, the amount of actions available to the living was too low to spend 2 day actions to heal 1 person every day. It wasn't efficent but maybe it would have been better if they didn't roll so bad

In truth if perople has scavenged for barricading and barricading more, there could have been fewer death/infections and more action to persuade me to actually waste them healing instead hoping for a hammer or another pill.

I still suggest announcing malignent and spreading infection due the the difficulty of knowing the rates without combing through every word in every post.

Jontom Xire
2009-12-04, 07:23 AM
Instead of getting frustrated you might consider bursting gleefully into manical laughter - that would be the healthier choice for sure! :smalltongue:


I lack the necessary quota of evilness in my personality.



And different people have all different kinds of fun - sure, it clashes with the probability of overall success if you try to hide from the zombies, but if it works out (like night 1 for me) it feels more rewarding than sitting in the barricade. :smallbiggrin:


Agreed and I'm working on it, but ... never mind.



I understand that you see the glaring mistakes we (as a team or individually) make and would love to shout out to us (like I would love to do sometimes, when I watch my girlfriend playing WoW, but I sure know better! But that's another story and she has already learned much since starting... "Change to bearform! BEARFORM! NOW!!! Ahhhh..."). But in the end it's each players own decision and if it means death and destruction it's at least well earned.

I know exactly what you mean. I had the same issues with my fiancee and I still notice my tone getting a little stern when she does something dumb (still can't navigate at all), but you're right - let her learn by herslef and she is now much much much better, and really impresses me at times. Her DPS is currently almost twice mine (I'm bearform tank, she's ranged DPS, but even so). Mind you, she didn't really enjoy playing her first few chars, but she loved her hunter character and we loved playing that group until we found someone else to play regularly with and then got sidetracked onto a whole new set of chars, but I think she loves her new one just as much too (boomkin).

I do find the patience required hard to come by though, especially in life-or-death high stress situations.

Deathslayer7
2009-12-04, 02:14 PM
sorry for getting sick jontom. i dont know how to start the RP back up. At this point, I feel it has gone straight into mechanics.

Wizibirb
2009-12-04, 02:17 PM
Yes it is all your fault for getting sick!

Etcetera
2009-12-04, 02:17 PM
Yes. Mainly because we're disorganised, and while in real life leadership skills are required to be a leader, here all you need is a little initiative and some organizing skills. And most of us don't seem to have them. I'll start RP though.

Wizibirb
2009-12-04, 02:18 PM
Or we just want to see the group fail for once :smallbiggrin:

Jontom Xire
2009-12-05, 09:04 AM
sorry for getting sick jontom. i dont know how to start the RP back up. At this point, I feel it has gone straight into mechanics.

Not your fault.

Are you ready to have a go at a night phase narration yet?

I think I haven't fully updated the spreadsheet and as it's the weekend it's unlikely to happen until Monday.

Xykon_Fan
2009-12-05, 09:58 PM
XF, you get an extra day action. I recommend barricading as this will A) give you priority for a place in the barricade, and B) make it significantly stronger. In fact you could then go for a 6 person barriade with the same low strength, or use Oog's extra barricade to make the existing 4 man barricade 1 point stronger.

So...why can't I barricade twice? You had problems with it later: V



Err, sorry? You only missed one day phase unless my calculations are off. So you would have been doing something this last day except that you thought you were dead.

Okay...then scavenge for miscellaneous with the first and barricade with the second if I really can't use both to barricade...I was going based on what you said with barricading being a good extra action, but if the extra action is retroactive from yesterday, then it does me no good to barricade for yesterday's bunker.

Additionally, *I* thought I was dead? No.
I assumed that you knew the rules better than I did, and I was surprised by dying at half-infection, but wasn't going to question the narrator. I never thought I should have been dead though. Please don't shift that on me: You thought I was dead.



If you're going to add to the size by one then you may as well add to the size by 2. There's no difference to the strength of the barricade either way.

Sounds good.




Yes plus any other items you had, although I don't think you had any actually.

Yeah. I said I *only* had those. Just making sure that I get those. That's all.

BishFish
2009-12-06, 09:53 AM
is it still nightime? i would like to be in the barricade

Deathslayer7
2009-12-06, 07:41 PM
yeah ill do it. just send me what happens and ill do an RP update.

Xykon_Fan
2009-12-06, 10:37 PM
Inside barricade

Healed tomorrow, Orzel?

Everyone be ready to barricade tomorrow. We'll need it. Unless you're at STR 1 and basically better off doing something else like scavenging.

Ecoleman24
2009-12-06, 11:27 PM
What is the best way to avoid getting infected? Or is it something that is inevitable?



__________________
Construction Games (http://constructiongames.net)

Wizibirb
2009-12-06, 11:56 PM
have a high con is the best way.

Jontom Xire
2009-12-07, 05:30 AM
So...why can't I barricade twice? You had problems with it later: V

Okay...then scavenge for miscellaneous with the first and barricade with the second if I really can't use both to barricade...I was going based on what you said with barricading being a good extra action, but if the extra action is retroactive from yesterday, then it does me no good to barricade for yesterday's bunker.


You only missed ONE day phase, so you only get ONE day phase action to replace your missed action. It is now night phase so you don't get any day phase actions.

I can't see how else I could have said this in my last post on the topic.



What is the best way to avoid getting infected? Or is it something that is inevitable?



have a high con is the best way.

Actually you can guarantee not getting infected if you don't play! :smallbiggrin: However that's boring.

I don't seem to have any night action for BanTheSun and Crown of Thorns. Since there are two spare places in the barricade for them, and as Freshmeat suggested an action for them, that will be their action unless I hear differently by midday.

DS7, I'll post the usual update and when you get on, feel free to write a decent one and either PM it to me to retrospectively update my post, or just post it for flavour. If you could have a look at the spreadsheet at some point and see how I'm updating it, have a go yourself, that would be good.

Jontom Xire
2009-12-07, 10:35 AM
End of night 3:

The streets were quiet tonight. Norman hid as best he could but was found nevertheless. Ripped and bit, he finally managed to escape.

Meanwhile the flimsy barricade that had been built by so few for so many was breached, not once, but six times! BanTheSun was mauled from all directions. Even if he hadn't been injured already, he would have died in moments. Only his poison pill, which he ate with his dying action, prevented him turning into a zombie. Meanwhile BishFish was similarly set upon, but managed to escape with only minor injuries.


Nehh was Injured and now has a dormant infection.
BanTheSun died.
BishFish is now scratched and has a malignant infection.


Day 4 starts here.

Etcetera
2009-12-07, 10:59 AM
I was relived when I first read that. Then I read it again. :smalleek:

I'm at school in the middle of the day, but when I barricade unless I specifically state that I'm not in it I will be in it. But since I probably won't survive (con 2), that's not a main concern.

Deathslayer7
2009-12-07, 11:31 AM
i can try but the earliest i can get to it is in about three hours from now.

Xykon_Fan
2009-12-07, 04:17 PM
Alright...I think I read your earlier post, saying that I got an "extra" day action, as meaning that a day had already passed since I'd died, which would mean that I would need an extra action to return things. In reality, you were telling me that I could take my day action then for this day and none other, right?

So, in summary, I had one day action.

I then stayed in the barricade.

Right?

Wizibirb
2009-12-07, 05:17 PM
Barricade for once

Xykon_Fan
2009-12-07, 05:33 PM
Yeah...barricade. Seems we have no choice at this point...might change if I see enough people barricading.

BishFish
2009-12-07, 08:06 PM
willBarricade now that we don't have any.

Nehh
2009-12-08, 12:19 AM
Just a few questions to a mathsy person:

Would a STR 2 person actually help that much with the barricade?
Are there any items we need to be scavenged?

The second one is only if the answer to the first is no at the time.

calar
2009-12-08, 01:43 AM
Here's one for the team. I'll barricade.

Deathslayer7
2009-12-08, 02:33 AM
ummmm why are people changing their night actions after JX put up a partial night update.

but i would update but i then realized i do not know how much damage the zombies do, and JX didn't put it anywhere, or at least i can't find it. Apoligies.

Etcetera
2009-12-08, 02:51 AM
They're putting up their day actions because they didn't read JX's post properly.

Jontom Xire
2009-12-08, 03:11 AM
ummmm why are people changing their night actions after JX put up a partial night update.

but i would update but i then realized i do not know how much damage the zombies do, and JX didn't put it anywhere, or at least i can't find it. Apoligies.

In the rules.

Take the difference between the hit values:

Zombies have STR 2 total +1d6 = 6 gives a total of 8
Survivor has 3 STR total + 1d6 = 2 gives a total of 5
Damage points = difference = 3

Divide by survivor toughness. I.e. if toughness is 2 or 3 then one level of physical damage is taken. If toughness is 1 then 3 levels of physical damage are taken.

===========

DS7, did you change the turn random seed field? Because the turn results have completely changed since I started writing them up. A different hider would have been killed, instead of merely being injured, and there are far fewer successful attacks onthe barricade.

I guess all you barricaders got lucky. Somehow the random seed that drives all the random numbers in the spread sheet got changed (or maybe Google spreadsheets didn't recalculate them all properly in the first place but did when I re-opened the document) so far far fewer zombies have broken through. I will leave the hide and seek results as they are as I have already posted them.

Jontom Xire
2009-12-08, 04:24 AM
End of night phase post updated. You were very lucky.

Etcetera
2009-12-08, 05:04 AM
{table]Player | Action | Modifier
Freshmeat | Barricading | +2
Nehh | Being Healed | -
Calar | Barricading | +3
Crown of Thorns | Barricading | +3
Orzel | Healing | +6
MoM | scavenging construction materials | +6
Sanity | Barricading | +5
Bishfish | Being Healed | -
[/table]
Updated version of Freshmeat's table.

This would give us a total barricading strength of 11+5+d6/8. Or, we could take a risk and have Nehh help barricade as well, but I don't think we should. We do still have medical equipment, right? Also, yay, nailgun. Lastly, if we wanted to we could use the hammer and nails tonight, but I think we should save it.

Freshmeat
2009-12-08, 06:05 AM
I'll look for construction materials today.
I suggest that someone uses the hammer/nails. I believe we still have additional nails from some time back, so there's no reason not to use the hammer today (as we can use it both today and tomorrow).
If memory serves, Sanity has the hammer on him.

Jontom Xire
2009-12-08, 06:23 AM
Sanity has the hammer and 3 sets of nails.

The 1d6 for the barricade strength is added AFTER dividing by the size. Don't forget to do some healing or be healed. So far two people with serious infections are barricading.

Etcetera
2009-12-08, 06:57 AM
...Sorry.
So
(9+2/8) +1d6

An average barricade strength of four. We might need to improve on this, but I'm not sure how.

Freshmeat, do you think it would make more sense for me to scavenge, or for you. Would the extra +1 do better in barricading or scavenging?

Jontom Xire
2009-12-08, 07:21 AM
Currently 4 people are barricading for a total of 15. If Sanity uses the hammer and nails (he didn't actually say he was) then that makes 17 for a total of:

17/8 + 1d6 = 2 + 1d6.

Add in the nail gun, should you wish to, and that makes a total of 22, which gives the same modifier unless you drop down to size 7 at which point you get a strength of 3 + 1d6 which should keep most of the zombies out, depending on how high a roll you get on 1d6. A roll of 6 will probably keep all the zombies out, a roll of 1 will see you inundated (as you would have been last night if the random seed hadn't got reset).

Freshmeat
2009-12-08, 08:05 AM
Freshmeat, do you think it would make more sense for me to scavenge, or for you. Would the extra +1 do better in barricading or scavenging?

I was inclined to say we're better off with having a slightly stronger barricade, but going by JX's math here:


Currently 4 people are barricading for a total of 15. If Sanity uses the hammer and nails (he didn't actually say he was) then that makes 17 for a total of:

17/8 + 1d6 = 2 + 1d6.

Add in the nail gun, should you wish to, and that makes a total of 22, which gives the same modifier unless you drop down to size 7 at which point you get a strength of 3 + 1d6 which should keep most of the zombies out, depending on how high a roll you get on 1d6. A roll of 6 will probably keep all the zombies out, a roll of 1 will see you inundated (as you would have been last night if the random seed hadn't got reset).

We're probably better off if I barricade instead and you scavenge. Our barricade strength will drop to 21, but divided by 7 that still gives three. And this way, we'll get a scavenger out there who has a higher scavenging modifier. Everyone wins.

So I'll be barricading instead.
Of course, things would be even better if Nehh barricades in lieu of me so I can scavenge too. His strength is the same as mine so the barricade will be just as strong, but I'm better at scavenging at him. If he barricades, I'll change my action back to scavenging. I'll keep my 'barricade' action up for now though, just in case he doesn't read this before the next update.

Seven barricade spots sounds fine to me, if calar is still willing to hide out at night. That +6 hide modifier has done him a lot of good so far, and will probably keep him safer - on average - than the barricade. So I'm assuming he's okay with that. If not, he's free to reserve a spot in the 'cades and we'll see if we can work something out.

Edit: that also means that yes, I'm advocating using the nail gun today. We've got two people out of the action at the moment due to the fact they're healing/being healed and tomorrow the barricade workload will be lower anyway because there's no point in scavenging tomorrow (as the game ends after the subsequent night). Furthermore, there's always the chance we'll find a nailgun cartridge today anyway. Therefore, I deem it wisest to use the nailgun now.

Etcetera
2009-12-08, 08:14 AM
Mathsfail on my part. Where would we be without JX and Freshmeat?

I'll scavenge for construction materials then.

Jontom Xire
2009-12-08, 09:52 AM
Note however that the barricade strength I was talking about referred to those who had said they would barricade so far, which includes two people with serious infections.

However once all actions are in you can then decide what size you want the barricade to be.

There are 9 players and potentially 3 of them will be doing healing stuff. One scavenging leaves 5 to barricade.

Note that Xykon Fan WILL die tonight if his infection spreads.

Orzel
2009-12-08, 11:20 AM
So who should i heal? They can't barricade if I do.

Etcetera
2009-12-08, 12:10 PM
Definitely Xykon Fan, probably one to two others.