Is it possible...

[BatRobin]

That when The Oracle said Belkar would cause the death of V, he foresaw this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0436.html) up until panel 4, and didn't consider PfA?


Random little thinkg I noticed on an archive binge, but still.

[Ninja]

No. Shortness limitation.

[Gift Jeraff]

Impossible, as V's prophecy was never fulfilled (whether or not you think it already happened is irrelevant), unless the Oracle foresaw V fulfilling it in death, undeath, or after a raise/resurrection.

[Kaytara]

The old, only-relying-on-magic V is dead.

He died in Xykon's tower, after Belkar pointing out the messenger birds to Haley and joking about beating Xykon led V to his obsession and insanity.

However you look at it, Belkar's prophecy is fulfilled. :D

[Spiky]

Impossible, as V's prophecy was never fulfilled (whether or not The Giant thinks it already happened is irrelevant), unless the Oracle foresaw V fulfilling it in death, undeath, or after a raise/resurrection.

Are you people still around? I changed your comment to what you really mean.

[FujinAkari]

That when The Oracle said Belkar would cause the death of V, he foresaw this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0436.html) up until panel 4, and didn't consider PfA?


Random little thinkg I noticed on an archive binge, but still.

No. The Oracle is Infallible, so far as we have reason to believe. It is impossoble that he "didn't consider" PfA.

[Berserk Monk]

That when The Oracle said Belkar would cause the death of V, he foresaw this strip (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0436.html) up until panel 4, and didn't consider PfA?


Random little thinkg I noticed on an archive binge, but still.

The second, third, and fourth panel are meant to be a joke referring to a bunch of people speculating about the arrow hitting one of the people Belkar was meant to cause the death of.

[Haggis]

I can't imagine him even have to count whether or not V had PfA. He wasn't making a guess, he was seeing the future. If he saw the arrow flying at him, why wouldn't he see it bounce off.

I can't help, but think ether it's not all over, or oracle was talking about himself and only himself the whole time.

[factotum]

Belkar's prophecy has been fulfilled because of the sloppy way he asked it--he only had to cause the death of ONE of the people he asked about, and that was obviously the Oracle. There's no need to look for double or triple meanings here, it was quite straightforward.

[ZeLinator]

The old, only-relying-on-magic V is dead.

He died in Xykon's tower, after Belkar pointing out the messenger birds to Haley and joking about beating Xykon led V to his obsession and insanity.

However you look at it, Belkar's prophecy is fulfilled. :D

That's a stretch, to say the least, and doesn't fulfill the prophecy at all. That's like saying Belkar's going to get negative hit points and be healed, thus fulfilling his prophecy.


Belkar's prophecy has been fulfilled because of the sloppy way he asked it--he only had to cause the death of ONE of the people he asked about, and that was obviously the Oracle. There's no need to look for double or triple meanings here, it was quite straightforward.

I'm still of the mind that if The Giant had the prophecy go 3 for 4, he's probably just going to complete the set at some point.

[Kish]

I'm still of the mind that if The Giant had the prophecy go 3 for 4, he's probably just going to complete the set at some point.
We can hope.

But considering the only prophesied killing unambiguously attributable to Belkar is the Oracle's, it's not necessary that Belkar be responsible for Vaarsuvius' death in any way either clear or permanent, however you look at it.

[Zevox]

I'm still of the mind that if The Giant had the prophecy go 3 for 4, he's probably just going to complete the set at some point.
But he didn't. The Oracle's death was the fulfillment of Belkar's first prophecy, and no other. The Oracle himself said that he didn't believe the explanations he gave for Belkar "causing" the deaths of Roy, Miko, and Windstriker - and really, the only one of those that was anything close to arguably reasonable to begin with was Roy.

Zevox

[Turkish Delight]

But he didn't. The Oracle's death was the fulfillment of Belkar's first prophecy, and no other. The Oracle himself said that he didn't believe the explanations he gave for Belkar "causing" the deaths of Roy, Miko, and Windstriker - and really, the only one of those that was anything close to arguably reasonable to begin with was Roy.

Zevox

True. But regardless, that interrupted 'And as for the elf...' (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html) thing just screams 'foreshadowing.' Something is going to happen between V and Belkar before things reach their conclusion.

[Gametime]

True. But regardless, that interrupted 'And as for the elf...' (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html) thing just screams 'foreshadowing.' Something is going to happen between V and Belkar before things reach their conclusion.

All it foreshadows is some vague connection between something Belkar says, does, or causes at some point in the future which directly or indirectly involves V coming to permanent or impermanent mortal harm, which could range from his metaphorical "death" after the soul splice fiasco to his actual death at the hands of future foes.

Given that we've already established that the Oracle was relying on tenuous connections of causality, rather than any accepted definitions of "causing" deaths, in an attempt to avoid his murder, WHY would you assume V's explanation was ANY more reasonable?

[Zevox]

True. But regardless, that interrupted 'And as for the elf...' (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0567.html) thing just screams 'foreshadowing.' Something is going to happen between V and Belkar before things reach their conclusion.
More accurately, it foreshadows the possibility of V dying. In case you hadn't noticed, just before that comment, the Oracle had redefined death to try and make Belkar think he had caused Windstrike to "die." Any connection between Belkar and V's death (literal, metaphoric, or whatever else it may be) is likely to be even more tenuous than that, given the pattern was that the connections got progressively more ridiculous the longer the Oracle's faux explanations continued. There is thus no reason to believe that Belkar will kill V.

Zevox

[Turkish Delight]

All it foreshadows is some vague connection between something Belkar says, does, or causes at some point in the future which directly or indirectly involves V coming to permanent or impermanent mortal harm, which could range from his metaphorical "death" after the soul splice fiasco to his actual death at the hands of future foes.


More accurately, it foreshadows the possibility of V dying. In case you hadn't noticed, just before that comment, the Oracle had redefined death to try and make Belkar think he had caused Windstrike to "die."

There is a variable involved that doesn't apply to the scenarios previously given for Windstriker, Miko, and Roy, however; those 'deaths' had already happened and were described to us by the Oracle. Plot-wise, the sentence being left unfinished places it in a category all it's own. By means of the absurdity of the Oracle's previously outlined scenarios, we the humble readership have now been gently pushed in the direction of dismissing entirely any direct relationship between Belkar and V's possible coming death, with only the tenuous hanging thread of that unfinished sentence to suggest anything at all will come of that particular part of the prophecy.

But this isn't the real world. We cannot operate on straight logic: 'all the previously described scenarios were an incredibly stretch, ergo the one that was left spoken likely was as well.' That the hanging thread is so tenuous makes it all the more likely to produce something of actual note. Under such circumstances, plot logic dictates to keep an eye out for expectations being subverted and Belkar having a much more direct responsibility for V's death than he did for any of the previous deaths. Or at least to be tied to that death in a much less convoluted way.

Call it instinct.

[ZeLinator]

Look at the pattern of the prophecy:

Miko: Death
Windstriker: Didn't come back
Roy: Death (did come back)
The Oracle: Death (did come back)

My interpretation is that the oracle will hit for the cycle on all prophecies. V will die (but might come back), Durkon will die (actually time of death before reaching home debatable), and Belkar will die (for good, kaput, the Giant drove it into the ground on this one). I don't see how a "metaphorical" death would fulfill any of the other prophecies, given the existing pattern. No matter how direct the relationship between belkar and the V's demise, I think the end result will still be death.

[JonahFalcon]

Belkar's death will be at the hands of V's crow familiar.

ONE BIRD TO RULE THEM ALL.

[Nilan8888]

But this isn't the real world. We cannot operate on straight logic: 'all the previously described scenarios were an incredibly stretch, ergo the one that was left spoken likely was as well.' That the hanging thread is so tenuous makes it all the more likely to produce something of actual note. Under such circumstances, plot logic dictates to keep an eye out for expectations being subverted and Belkar having a much more direct responsibility for V's death than he did for any of the previous deaths. Or at least to be tied to that death in a much less convoluted way.

Call it instinct.

Good narrative instinct.

[Gift Jeraff]

Are you people still around? I changed your comment to what you really mean.
Er, not quite sure what you're talking about. :smallconfused: My point was that any opinion on the exact details of V's prophecy is moot, the fact being that it didn't happen by the point in the comic linked in the OP.

[FujinAkari]

Er, not quite sure what you're talking about. :smallconfused: My point was that any opinion on the exact details of V's prophecy is moot,.

Sorry, Rich's opinion isn't moot. It is the only one that matters, tbqh.

[Yuoaman]

The Oracle saw himself being killed by Belkar, he was only asked if Belkar would kill one of them.

[Darius1020]

i bet Mr. Scruffy will eat Blackwing, and when the bird dies, a part of V will die, this fulfilling that Belkar (since its his cat) caused the death of V