Mirror Image: The dire flail of spells?

[Rainbownaga]

People always talk about melee weapons not making sense, and I've seen plenty of threads about closing your eyes to ignore mirror image, but one really doesn't make sense at all- Why do mirror images 'pop' when hit?

Area affects apparently don't work because they "react the same way" which is almost logical, assuming that an area affect is completely homogeneous across its area, so it may be assumed that the disappearing illusions are a result of being identified by not responding appropriately to an individual attack.

Except this is inconsistent with virtually every other illusion in the game since disbelieving normally only affects the person who successfully disbelieves, not someone hiding in a pile of boxes in the next room.

Additionally, there is no option for 'disbelief' and the spell specifically says that they move around in a confusing way and can merge and split off to disguise which is real.

Is using mirror image in the game just a matter of just not thinking too hard about it, or is there actually some logic that I'm missing here?

[jiriku]

The metagame logic of the spell is that it is intended to provide you with a diminishing level of protection from aimed effects like attacks and ray spells, but to be transparent to area effects like fireball. Thus, the spell's parameters are written to support the metagame intent of the spell.

As for inconsistency with other illusion effects, meh. Every rule has exceptions, and I could just as easily point out that invisibility also can't be disbelieved and has a 'pop' clause built into it too.

I for one am very happy with this spell. For my current wizard, it has saved me from death on at least one occasion, and has discouraged monsters from even targeting me on other occasions.

[Lapak]

If I had to handwave it, I'd say that it's a solid object/construct of sufficient mass passing through the image that disrupts it. Fireballs and similar energy blasts aren't substantial or concentrated enough to do so. A sword is; an arrow is; even an Acid Arrow is a more dense chunk of spell energy.

But yes, it is handwaving. It's a spell that acts the way it acts because that's the way it has always acted.

[Frosty]

I houserule the spell so that if it takes any damage, it pops, so fireballs do destroy mirror image unless the target has evasion and successfully evades. Makes more sense that way.

[Mando Knight]

See also: Double Team (http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Double_Team_%28move%29).

[valadil]

I always figured they popped because they didn't react correctly to being attacked. IE the sword passes right through it. All combatants make a mental note that that one is an illusion, and ignore it for the rest of the fight.

[Rainbownaga]

I always figured they popped because they didn't react correctly to being attacked. IE the sword passes right through it. All combatants make a mental note that that one is an illusion, and ignore it for the rest of the fight.

There are two problems with that; the images can merge and split off with each other, and images dissapear even for creatures that weren't there at the time the attack was made, who were temporarily blinded, etc.

Enforcing this rule would be like assuming every monster can play the cup game with up to eight cups while their lives are being threatened, possibly from a completely different direction.

[Saph]

Nah, it actually makes complete sense if you look at the Major Image (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/majorImage.htm) spell. Major Image says: "The image disappears when struck by an opponent unless you cause it to react appropriately."

You're not concentrating on your Mirror Images, therefore they disappear when struck. QED.

[Rainbownaga]

Nah, it actually makes complete sense if you look at the Major Image (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/majorImage.htm) spell. Major Image says: "The image disappears when struck by an opponent unless you cause it to react appropriately."

You're not concentrating on your Mirror Images, therefore they disappear when struck. QED.

That's still weird, but at least it's consistent. Thanks for the find.

[Kurald Galain]

As an alternative consideration - perhaps they don't pop, but an enemy that has struck Image #3 with his sword will find out, because of the lack of resistance, that it's an illusion, and tell it to his friends, so they know not to hit that one again.

[AstralFire]

As an alternative consideration - perhaps they don't pop, but an enemy that has struck Image #3 with his sword will find out, because of the lack of resistance, that it's an illusion, and tell it to his friends, so they know not to hit that one again.

...That doesn't work for reasons already specified...

Anyway, it's just the nature of illusion magic in some fantasy that it 'pops'. I know I've seen it in games before.

[Rainbownaga]

D&D paradoxes...

If a tree falls in the woods and hits one of his mirror images, but nobody sees it, does it really disappear?

[Volos]

I should tell my trigger happy mage that she should take this spell, it is almost as useful as mage armor.

[aje8]

I should tell my trigger happy mage that she should take this spell, it is almost as useful as mage armor.
Almost? Mirror Image is pretty much always better than Mage Armor.

Yeah..... I'd houserule this spell to make more sense...... expect that might make it stronger than it already is. And it's pretty strong.

[AstralFire]

I should tell my trigger happy mage that she should take this spell, it is almost as useful as mage armor.

Mirror Image is one of the most ridiculous combat spells in the game.

[FinalJustice]

In my group, we always used it as 'the mirror image that is damaged disappears', thus it is defeated by area damage spells. And, even with the nerf, Mirror Image has always been one of the most useful 2nd level spells.

[Rainbownaga]

-Another logical concern with this spell:

Images "pop" if they don't react appropriately to their environment. Additionally, they have no physical substance.

Therefore, what happens if you swing a spiked chain or even just wave a 10' pole through the area inhabited by the images? It seems ridiculous that you would need the improved cleave feat to continue the swing, and even if it did no damage.

In honesty, this is almost the same concern I have with a lot of "attacking invisible opponent" issues, such as a situation where an ogremage was running through a 10' wide corridor, and the archer wondered why she had to guess the distance.


-A rules query

What happens when an image provokes an AoO? Since the character and illusions are indistinguishable, I assume they trigger as usual, but what happens if the character has combat reflexes? Every time you trigger an attack of opportunity you would provoke it multiple times.

[Dimers]

I've seen a spell in a 3rd-party book that replaces illusory mirror images with shadow images, "quasi-real". (There was a lot of shadow magic in that book, to round out a theme for its gameworld.) Each shadow copy has 20% of your hit points and does react appropriately to damage if it isn't slain. Presumably, all the images would take damage simultaneously from area effects, though the spell description doesn't address that problem. You could potentially make shadow images be the only spell of that type in the gameworld.

[BloodyAngel]

I've always ruled it similar to the above idea. The illusions are semi-real... made of some nebulous shadow-stuff that reacts if hit in a way that betrays it's true nature. Images last until the spell ends, but any fool can tell the ones with the gaping, shadowy holes torn in them from failed attacks aren't real. It's all about the cinema of it anyway.

I've also always ruled that area attacks ruin mirror image. It hasn't seemed to make the spell bad. If anything, it's made it more fair and less a perfect answer to everything.

As a quick, semi on-topic question of my own. For spells that target a foe without an attack roll work unchanged on a subject with mirror image active, yes? Finger of death, for instance? Or charm person? Something that allows a save, but requires no roll to hit? I had a rules-lawyer/munchkin try to insist that spells like that were "single target and had the same miss chance as a sword" once... and if he's wrong as I suspect he is, I'd like to know so I can rub his stupid face in it. This is the man who's prone to making up rules to his own benefit and then claiming he "misinterpreted" them if he's called on it. Jerk... :smallannoyed:

[Trouvere]

The spell description itself is utterly confused. "Generally, roll randomly to see whether the selected target is real or a figment." But "These figments separate from you and remain in a cluster, each within 5 feet of at least one other figment or you."

The caster doesn't have to keep his n figments in his square, for a simple 1 in (n+1) chance of being hit. If a battle isn't taking place in the middle of a wide open field where everyone can run about freely, the caster can form a phalanx of images, with himself safely at the back. If he's out of reach of an attacker from the front, once the attacker selects which square to hit, why would he roll randomly to determine whether that creature is an image or not? The caster knows for certain that it isn't. And it isn't.

At the extreme, suppose the caster is at the end of a narrow corridor. He can place his 8 images one after the other down its length, each within 5' of another image. Someone approaching can't possibly hit the real caster - he's 45 feet away. Heck, if the caster happens to be large, then he's twice as far away. Does the attacker really have to swing-and-pop his way down the corridor for 8 or more rounds??

If "an attacker shuts his or her eyes, the spell has no effect." What? So he can see 9 figures in a row, but if he closes his eyes for a moment, he instantly knows that the one at the back of the line is real (though he can't see it)? So he opens them again, and moves blithely through the figures to the last, real, one? No?

It's as though the line about images being able to occupy separate squares just fell into the spell description from an earlier draft. Everything makes a lot more sense if all images always share the same square. Closing your eyes switches the miss chance from n/(n+1) to 1 in 2. And that's that.

On the other hand, I do like the utility possibilities of a kind of Pepper's Ghost, with the long line of mirror images.

[Tehnar]

Mirror image is a very good spell, but not as good as some believe. Since the images randomize with the caster on its turn (when he moves), if someone gets lucky and hits the caster, they know which one is real and which is not until the casters turn.

[PinkysBrain]

Something like casting a fireball or a ray spell will also give away your position (so best cast first and then move).

[Sliver]

The spell description itself is utterly confused. "Generally, roll randomly to see whether the selected target is real or a figment." But "These figments separate from you and remain in a cluster, each within 5 feet of at least one other figment or you."

The caster doesn't have to keep his n figments in his square, for a simple 1 in (n+1) chance of being hit. If a battle isn't taking place in the middle of a wide open field where everyone can run about freely, the caster can form a phalanx of images, with himself safely at the back. If he's out of reach of an attacker from the front, once the attacker selects which square to hit, why would he roll randomly to determine whether that creature is an image or not? The caster knows for certain that it isn't. And it isn't.

At the extreme, suppose the caster is at the end of a narrow corridor. He can place his 8 images one after the other down its length, each within 5' of another image. Someone approaching can't possibly hit the real caster - he's 45 feet away. Heck, if the caster happens to be large, then he's twice as far away. Does the attacker really have to swing-and-pop his way down the corridor for 8 or more rounds??

Not always, no. Generally. The opponent rolls when he has no reason to suspect one is more real then the other. If you are an archer and all are in the same range increasement and didn't do anything that would be weird (like, if a caster casts a spell and doesn't move, and suddenly there is a line of images from him.. You might try to hit the one that is standing in the original spot.


If "an attacker shuts his or her eyes, the spell has no effect." What? So he can see 9 figures in a row, but if he closes his eyes for a moment, he instantly knows that the one at the back of the line is real (though he can't see it)? So he opens them again, and moves blithely through the figures to the last, real, one? No?

It's as though the line about images being able to occupy separate squares just fell into the spell description from an earlier draft. Everything makes a lot more sense if all images always share the same square. Closing your eyes switches the miss chance from n/(n+1) to 1 in 2. And that's that.

On the other hand, I do like the utility possibilities of a kind of Pepper's Ghost, with the long line of mirror images.

If you strike at a cluster of images with the caster with them, then the illusion isn't effecting your senses. Ignoring if it can be bypassed via listen or scent, it means that if you have no visual way to perceive the illusion, the caster doesn't get the benefits of mirror image against you. But it doesn't mean that you suddenly get to know where the real one was, so unless you have a way to detect him with your eyes closed, you will be swinging blindly. If there are 8 cups and only one has the coin, closing your eyes doesn't mean you get to know where the coin is. Of course you won't get to increase your chances from 1 in an 8 to 50% or something.. But the spell is flawed. Just not in the way you say it is..

[Trouvere]

Not always, no. Generally. The opponent rolls when he has no reason to suspect one is more real then the other.The only time you'd roll is if all the images are in the same square, such that they are effectively all targeted at once.

If the images are spread out in separate squares, then the caster or DM simply says "Sorry, you picked the wrong one" or "Congratulations, you hit him." There's never a percentage chance of a hit after the opponent has chosen which creature to attack - there's either 0 or 100%. Yes, if the opponent can choose from every image, he has an initial 1 in whatever chance of picking the right one. But once he says "okay, I strike the one to my left", he's either picked correctly or he hasn't. He doesn't then get a chance of it actually being correct if it wasn't in the first place. No roll.

However, if the images are all sharing a space with the caster, then yes, he'd roll away, and have a 1 in 6 or 1 in 8 or whatever chance.
If you are an archer and all are in the same range increasement and didn't do anything that would be weird (like, if a caster casts a spell and doesn't move, and suddenly there is a line of images from him.. You might try to hit the one that is standing in the original spot.Yes, if you're an archer, you can of course bypass the entire line of obvious figments and shoot the guy at the back, or whichever other one you felt like shooting. Or you'd loose several arrows and bring the spell down in a round or two. But if you have a melee weapon only, can you ignore this line of creatures and run right through them to get where you want? You can't ordinarily run through an enemy's square, but these are of course utterly powerless images. If yes, suppose the caster did move, and he's in fact somewhere in the middle of the line, but the opponent thinks he's at the back. What happens then if he tries to run through all these figments? I suppose it's treated as an accidental overrun attempt.
...if you have no visual way to perceive the illusion, the caster doesn't get the benefits of mirror image against you. But it doesn't mean that you suddenly get to know where the real one was, so unless you have a way to detect him with your eyes closed, you will be swinging blindly. If there are 8 cups and only one has the coin, closing your eyes doesn't mean you get to know where the coin is.Yes, exactly. I think we're in agreement on this aspect. The line in the spell description that says closing your eyes removes the effect of the illusion is, in fact, irrelevant, unless all the images share a square. If they're in separate squares, closing your eyes does nothing at all. In fact, it's worse than nothing, because you then have a 50% miss chance when attacking the one apparent creature in a single square that, chances are, is a figment.

Again, all this guff about reducing your miss chance by striking blind assumes that the figments are all clustered in the same square as the caster.

[Thurbane]

I agree with the OP - Mirror Image can be a very unwieldly and ambiguous spell, the way it is presented.