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View Full Version : [3.5e] Need help with a necromancer build please...



Alaxi
2009-11-10, 06:17 PM
I am looking to make a necromancer. Preferrably a Dragonwrought Kobold (black), so I can take that nifty feat for +3 to all mental stats. That being said, I would like to avoid any "Shadow Magic" if I can (I don't have the sourcebooks) and need help with the proper feats.


Thanks in advance. :-)



Alaxi

Boci
2009-11-10, 06:33 PM
Zombie horde controller (dread necromancer) or debuffer (wizard)? I believe a cleric is a mixture of the two but I may be wrong.

Glimbur
2009-11-10, 06:36 PM
Wizard 20 is an ok necromancer build. Just cast a bunch of necromancy spells. Spell Focus: Necromancy isn't bad... there are good Necro spells with a save like Waves of Fatigue and others. But Enervation is saveless. Metamagic can be useful but without ways to reduce it it's not always ideal. Extend is nice for 10 min/level buffs, Split Ray is nice for Enervation, etc. Playing a wizard well is more about choosing the right spells to prepare and casting them at the right time than feats or exact class levels.

If you're looking for something with more built-in fluff and more focus, consider the Dread Necromancer from Heroes of Horror.

Alternately, if your optimization tolerance is high, consider a sorcerer and pile on Loredrake from some Eberron book, White Dragonspawn from ???, and Greater Draconic Rite of Passage to cast as a sorcerer of your level plus four. This isn't for the faint of heart though.

Alaxi
2009-11-10, 06:37 PM
I would like to be more involved with the spellcasting (debuff, kill spells, etc...) but would also like decent minion control capabilities. Not droves of cannon fodder, but rather a small number of more powerful undead creatures if possible.

Volkov
2009-11-10, 06:47 PM
The thing about Core arcane necromancers is that they can't match Clerics in the skeleton control thing. Since they can use Rebuke and Command, as well the animate/plague of undead/ect Spell, which gives them 8 times their cleric level in undead to command, 9 if they have the blood domain. You are pretty much stuck with the markedly inferior Command undead spell instead of rebuke and command. While you can theoretically command an infinite number of undead with this spell, you would have to do it one at a time. So really, you can only command 4 times your level in undead as a wizard, with a few extra from command undead.

Dimers
2009-11-10, 08:59 PM
I would like to be more involved with the spellcasting (debuff, kill spells, etc...) but would also like ... a small number of more powerful undead creatures if possible.

For the latter: Unearthed Arcana has an ACF that lets you trade a familiar for a skeletal minion that scales decently as you gain class levels. The tradeoff has several advantages -- the minion is more combat-ready, you can equip it with magic items, you can spellstitch it, you don't lose XP if it gets smooshed. If you like that idea and your DM allows it, you might also consider a variant of the Improved Familiar feat to allow more interesting and versatile base creatures for your minion.

My grasp of necromancy is poor otherwise (at least compared to my fellow posters), so I'll stop there. :smallredface:

Nich_Critic
2009-11-10, 09:29 PM
Dread necros get a lot of the most potent debuffs on the necromancy list from both clerics and wizards, an extra necromancy spell from either list of your choice at every 4th level, and more undead controlled then either a cleric or wizard (can animate and rebuke, gets extra HD worth of animating as a class feature, and has/can get the pretty mass raising spells). They also cast spontaneously and automatically know all the spells on their class list (think beguiler). The downsides are that they have very few spells that aren't on the necromancy list, a lot of their spells are touch forcing them to wade into combat, take a feat, or spend an extra round buffing with spectral hand.

Depending on your reading, with the tomb tainted soul feat, they use their charnel touch ability for unlimited out of combat healing, which is always a plus.

Alaxi
2009-11-10, 09:39 PM
For the latter: Unearthed Arcana has an ACF that lets you trade a familiar for a skeletal minion that scales decently as you gain class levels. The tradeoff has several advantages -- the minion is more combat-ready, you can equip it with magic items, you can spellstitch it, you don't lose XP if it gets smooshed. If you like that idea and your DM allows it, you might also consider a variant of the Improved Familiar feat to allow more interesting and versatile base creatures for your minion.

That is an incredibly good idea.


Dread necros get a lot of the most potent debuffs on the necromancy list from both clerics and wizards


I have heard that this class may not be too good, but your explanation has piqued my interest. :smallwink:

Thurbane
2009-11-10, 09:45 PM
Another vote for Dread Necro here. They have a decent spell list, with enough debuffs and "save or sucks" for it to be viable. And their class features are just plain cool - they have basically no "dead levels", especially compared to a Wizard. If you can somwhow snag UMD as a class skill, all the better (even if you can't, it's probably worthwhile as a cross-class skill for a CHA based caster).

Alaxi
2009-11-10, 09:50 PM
So Dread Necro is a good thing to do.....Nice.




Next question.........................What feats would be optimal, and is there any PrC's that will be worth it?

Biffoniacus_Furiou
2009-11-10, 10:00 PM
I'd say give Dread Necromancer a shot for sure. I'd grab Versatile Spellcaster from Races of the Dragon, which can grant you early access to the next higher level of spells depending on how your DM wants to handle its interaction with your spells known. Tomb-Tainted Soul allows you to use your at-will negative energy touch to heal yourself, and you get all of the Inflicts and Harm on your spell list. They get Greater Dispel Magic as a 5th level spell. Dreadful Wrath from PGtF is a good passive debuff, if you can take setting-specific feats. Also consider the feat Thick-Skinned from Savage Species to boost your DR by two more points.

At your 7th level you get a familiar from a decent list of exclusive choices, get the Ghostly Visage. Have it always possessing your character to get immunity to mind-affecting effects. In combat it can manifest over your face to force your opponents to save or become paralyzed. It can even spend its action every round to focus its gaze on a target that made the save to force it to risk paralysis a second time.

The Summon Undead line of spells is great for making some melee damage dealers or just meat shields. I'd only get owlbear/troll skeletons and ogre zombies, in multiples for higher level spell slots, rather than the special ability using undead on the list. As always, a 1st level spell slot gets you an expendable mook to open doors and chests and check halls for traps.

Thurbane
2009-11-10, 11:21 PM
In terms of gear, the MIC has some goodies that help with expanding your spell list...
Raiment of the Four allows you to swap out equivalent spell slots a few times a day to generate other spells effects (Magic Missile, Fireball, Freedom of Movement and Teleport).
Robe of Mysterious Conjuration does the same with Summon Monster 3/day (if you want to summon something other than undead).

...and my favorite: Eternal Wands! Allows any arcane caster to use the wand 2/day to produce a spell effect that otherwise wouldn't be on their list (spell 0 through 3rd level). Since the Dread Necro list can be a bit light on self-defensive spells, Eternal Wands of Mirror Image and Blink can be very handy.

Alaxi
2009-11-12, 01:03 PM
Sweet. This guy is going to be fun to play for sure. >:-)