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Volkov
2009-11-10, 08:56 PM
A few years back, before I became a DM, I had a pretty sadistic but still fun DM where we played a game where we fought against the evil humans. After hitting level 75, we started running into a monster called a Killer penguin, who easily kicked our rear ends. But when we faced the final enemy in the long campaign after reaching level 175. The moment we killed it, we had to face a killer penguin. We only won due to all of the non-human gods coming to our aid when we managed to destroy the generators a sort of barrier that kept out of the divine would drop, and they barely did enough damage to smite it dead.

Here are it's stats that he gave to me when I asked him for it about a week afterwards. I copied them word for word. Warning, it's a big post.

Size/Type: Huge Magical Beast.
Hit Dice:3,000d10+1,200,000(1,204,500)
Initiative: N/A Always goes first.
Speed: 1,000 feet, 5,000 swim, 500 burrow, 15,000 fly.
Armor class:908 all(+300 natural armor, +200 Deflection, +50 Profane, +50 Luck, +50 divine, +50 sacred, +50 insight +150 dexterity -2 size)
Base Attack/Grapple:+3,000/+3,408
Attack: Peck +3,398(100d%+400)
Full attack: Peck +3,398(100d%+400 17-20 x4), Two kicks +3,398(50d%+325 17-20 x4), Bite +3,398(100d%+325 17-20 x4), Two wing +3,398(50d%+325 17-20 x4), two stamps +3,398(150d%+325 17-20 x6) two slam +3,398(250d%+325 17-20 x4) Super Peck(250d%+550 17-20 x12) 16 quills+3,398(25d%+325 17-20 x4) can be thrown, eight tentacle slaps +3,398(25d%+325 17-20 x4, eight tentacle rakes +3,398(25d%+325 17-20 x4), tail slap +3,398(200d%+400 17-20 x4), gore +3,398 (250d%+400 17-20 x10)
Space/Reach: 15/15(30 for peck, bite, gore and super peck. 45 feet for tail slap, 60 feet for tentacles)
Special attacks:Super peck, Improved grapple, swallow whole, trample, powerful charge, screech, rake, rend, pounce, earthquake, Heat beams, Frost breath, quill fire, ability drain, corrosive spit, lightning bolts Spell-like abilities, spells, Turn or rebuke undead, outsiders, elements, elementals, constrict, tail sweep, crush.
Special qualities: Immunity to epic magic, Spell Resistance 25,000, Regeneration 50,000, Fast healing 100,000, immunity to non-descript energy types, fire resistance 25,000, cold immunity, electricity resistance 25,000, acid resistance 25,000, sonic immunity. DR 300/+50 good, chaotic, adamantine, bludgeoning, and piercing. Immunity to death effects, poison, disease, energy drain, prismatic effects, polymorph, blindness, deafness, daze effects, stun effects, paralysis, petrification, mind affecting effects, unwilling teleportation, critical hits, sneak attacks, alignment related effects, ability damage, ability drain, Transdimensional attacks, true sight, darkvision 10,000 feet, low light vision x 50, scent, keen scent 750,000 feet, blind sight 500,000 feet, blind sense 1,500,000 feet, tremor sense 2,250,000 feet.
Skills:1,823,392 skill points to spend.
Feats:1,150 to spend.
Saves: Fort+2,400, Ref+2,400, Will+1,400.
Abilities:Str 310, Dex 310, Con 310, Int 310, Wis 310, Cha 310.
Environment: any.
CR: A lot.
Organization: Any
Treasure: Quadruple Standard.
Alignment: Lawful evil.
Advancement:3,001-9,000(Huge), 9,001-27,000(Gargantuan), 27,001-81,000(Colossal), 81,001+(Colossal+)

Spell-like abilities: A Killer penguin can choose up to three thousand spells for it's spell like abilities. Caster level is 3,000, Save DC is 1,650+ spell level.
Spells: A Killer penguin can cast spells as if it had 3,000 levels in Cleric, Druid, Sorcerer, or Wizard.
Turn or Rebuke: A Killer penguin can choose to turn and destroy or rebuke, and command, undead, outsiders, elemental, or any creature with an elemental subtype as a level 3,000 cleric.
Energy attacks: All of a killer penguins energy attacks deal 500d% damage, lightning bolts and heat beams are 1,000 foot lines, frost breath, corossive spit, and Sonic screech are 375 foot cones. All DC's are 1,650
Regeneration: Only a weapon forged in the future by a sleep walking deity, which was then thrown into the far realm and later retrieved can deal lethal damage to a killer penguin.
Super peck: This attack can use up to twice the Killer penguins strength modifier.
Quills: These can be thrown up to a hundred range increcements, each being 1,000 feet long.
Low light vision: A Killer penguin can see 50 times better than a human can.
Earthquake: By stomping on the ground, a killer penguin can create an immensely powerful earthquake, one with ten thousand times the radius of effect of the spell, in addition any time the earthquake encounters water, it creates a tsunami.
Constrict:A killer penguin that successfully attacks an opponent with it's tail or tentacle slaps/rakes can begin to squeeze, dealing 250D%+475 damage per round.
Rend: A Killer penguin that hits with both kicks can tear at the flesh, dealing 100d%+475 damage.
Rake: A killer penguin that hits with both kicks or two tentacle rakes can claw at it's enemy, dealing 100D%+475 damage.
Tail sweep: A killer penguin can sweep it's tail in a full circle with a radius of 45 feet, dealing tail slap damage to any it hits and knocking them away as if they were hit by an awesome blow, Reflex DC 1,650 for half damage.
Crush: A killer penguin that pins or lands on an enemy can begin to crush it with it's weight, dealing 300D%+550 damage per round.
Trample: A Huge killer penguin can trample any enemy that is large or smaller, dealing 200d%+475 damage, reflex DC of 1,650 for half, an attack of oppurtunity can be taken at a -4 penalty, but this forfeits a chance of a reflex saving throw.
Swallow whole: A penguin that successfully grapples with it's mouth can swallow an enemy, where it will take 100d%+400 bludgeoning damage per round, as well as taking 25d% damage from flesh-eating bacteria per round, in addition, they will take 50d% of each energy type per round. One can cut their way out of the stomach by dealing 1,000 damage to the gizzard (AC 310) any hole created heals over rapidly and is closed by muscular action. Alternatively one can attempt to attempt another grapple check to get out, or they can make a DC 40 will save to go through the Scenic route through the digestive system, any one who takes this route will emerge from the bird's rear end within one round, and will be nauseated for three rounds, and be sickened for six more. A Huge Killer penguin can hold 2 medium creatures, 8 small, 512 tiny, 512^3 diminuitive creatures, and 512^3^3 fine in it's gizzard.
Immune to Epic magic: All epic level spells are useless against it, whether they are used directly or indirectly.
Immune to non-descript energy: any form of energy attack that lacks a specific type deals no damage to the killer penguin.


As you can see, we had problems. Which were compounded by the effect of the area's god repelling barrier, so we had to break the barrier and hope the gods could do it in. So would a level 175 party of a Black scale lizard folk fighter, an ultralithid psion, a kobold ranger, a poison dusk lizard folk rogue, a lizard folk druid, and a human lich cleric be able to do him in, or did we really just do the only thing that could have been done.

The Glyphstone
2009-11-10, 08:58 PM
Yes. Fold up your character sheets into a ball, pin your DM to the chair, and shove the ball of paper down his throat. Once he stops struggling and/or breathing, award yourself an entire campaign's worth of XP at once, since you have defeated the DM.

Volkov
2009-11-10, 09:00 PM
Yes. Fold up your character sheets into a ball, pin your DM to the chair, and shove the ball of paper down his throat. Once he stops struggling and/or breathing, award yourself an entire campaign's worth of XP at once, since you have defeated the DM.

It was a fun battle, and while he was sadistic, we still enjoyed him because he was a really damned compelling story teller and was really good at making even the most stupidly hard challenge fun. Plus...None of the other players would have gone through with that plan.

UglyPanda
2009-11-10, 09:04 PM
Level 75?

By level 40 (Actually much sooner, but I'm simplifying), you can stop time forever with no effort.

You stop time, open up a rift in the universe by your favorite method, and send your penguin buddy to a different dimension. He's Pun-Pun's problem after that.

The Glyphstone
2009-11-10, 09:05 PM
Curious...what was fun about it? You can only hit it in natural 20s, do no damage, can't hurt it with any attacks or spells. Doesn't really sound like fun if all you do is sit around while the DM narrates how the battle goes to you.

The Dark Fiddler
2009-11-10, 09:05 PM
Demand he roll every die of everything by hand, and that he writes out every spell like ability.

Volkov
2009-11-10, 09:06 PM
Level 75?

By level 40 (Actually much sooner, but I'm simplifying), you can stop time forever with no effort.

You stop time, open up a rift in the universe by your favorite method, and send your penguin buddy to a different universe.

He was immune to teleportation against his will, which as my DM put relativity into the game, meant time stop too, as well as rifts. The Casters tried it, he shattered the time stop and smacked the caster with a peck.

holywhippet
2009-11-10, 09:06 PM
Mirror of opposition.

Volkov
2009-11-10, 09:07 PM
Curious...what was fun about it? You can only hit it in natural 20s, do no damage, can't hurt it with any attacks or spells. Doesn't really sound like fun if all you do is sit around while the DM narrates how the battle goes to you.

I was only meant to hold of the damned bird with the ranger, rogue, cleric, and druid, while the psion got to destroying the generators.

UglyPanda
2009-11-10, 09:09 PM
I reiterate the "What was the fun of it?" statement.

It looks like it was made of fiat and lose. I'm sure whatever plan you can up with to fight it would've been negated.

All you do in that case is to hold a penguin puppet show and have them sing an aria every so often. Actually, that does sound like fun.

*Note to self: Figure out how to get players to hold a puppet show*

Lamech
2009-11-10, 09:10 PM
oh yea of little faith. Tainted Scholar, dweamerkeeper, supernatural wish to the face, enjoy your trip into a sphere of annilation. Hope it doesn't roll a natural twenty. While your at it kill a pantheon with the same wish. No its immunity does not apply to wish, as its a local effect.

Alternitvly ice assassin and life or death.

Tavar
2009-11-10, 09:11 PM
No, there's no way to defeat it. After all, the real ability it has is this:
The Killer Penguin cannot be defeated by any means except Plan A. Any attempt to do so automatically fails.

Plan A consists of whatever you did to defeat it.

Volkov
2009-11-10, 09:12 PM
I reiterate the "What was the fun of it?" statement.

It looks like it was made of fiat and lose. I'm sure whatever plan you can up with to fight it would've been negated.

It was treated like one of those video game bosses that you cannot beat directly, but instead you are forced to use a more clever routine than, smash it until it dies. In this case, we let down the barrier by smashing the generators, and at least ten thousand gods smited it with the fury of a thousand suns.

Logalmier
2009-11-10, 09:16 PM
I think I just figured out what the MitD is.:smallamused:

Foryn Gilnith
2009-11-10, 09:18 PM
Get telepathy. Get 1337 diplomancy powers. Get Greater Celerity. Use greater celerity to diplomance it into being your willing slave as soon as it comes within telepathy range.

Ponce
2009-11-10, 09:18 PM
A few years back, before I became a DM, I had a pretty sadistic but still fun DM where we played a game where we fought against the evil humans. After hitting level 75

This is about where my eyes glazed over and I had to close the browser tab before my brain matter started seeping out of my ears.

Lamech
2009-11-10, 09:20 PM
Dope up the ubercharger with 5000+ some strains of lycanthropy. Don't forget the dire and legandary and dire legandary and stains. Divine power. (UMD its a cross class for lycanthropes.) Ubercharge. That will ruin its day.

If you dope up the dweamperkeeper cleric with those strains the cleric can supernaturally implode it.

Tavar
2009-11-10, 09:23 PM
This is about where my eyes glazed over and I had to close the browser tab before my brain matter started seeping out of my ears.

Worse. That's not even half the level that they ended at. What the hell do you do with 175 levels? I mean, what feats are left?

ericgrau
2009-11-10, 09:24 PM
Mirror of opposition.

Constantly active foresight warns him not to look in the mirror. Or even if he did the double doesn't have all the buffs that he does, so it's behind in power. It'd be a good start though. Next comes a second mirror of opposition.

Volkov
2009-11-10, 09:25 PM
Get telepathy. Get 1337 diplomancy powers. Get Greater Celerity. Use greater celerity to diplomance it into being your willing slave as soon as it comes within telepathy range.
Would simply speaking to it work, I'm pretty sure with it's intelligence score it would speak pretty much any language.

Volkov
2009-11-10, 09:26 PM
Worse. That's not even half the level that they ended at. What the hell do you do with 175 levels? I mean, what feats are left?

He made at least a hundred of his own feats from scratch. He was quite the fan of homebrewing anything he needed.

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-10, 09:28 PM
Fair fight against that DM fiat?

Try Pun-Pun.

Inhuman Bot
2009-11-10, 09:29 PM
Worse. That's not even half the level that they ended at. What the hell do you do with 175 levels? I mean, what feats are left?

...175? ._.

That's not D&D, that's rifts!


Can cast spells as if it had 3,000 levels

.....
....


....

KillianHawkeye
2009-11-10, 09:33 PM
No.

This... thing... has arbitrarily high stats and is immune to everything, so unless you are also doing arbitrarily high amounts of damage with the impossibly-magical-sword-from-the-future-that-is-the-only-effective-weapon-in-the-universe, you cannot do anything.


In related news: your DM is a jerk.

SparkMandriller
2009-11-10, 09:40 PM
Why would you bother statting that monster? Your DM must like wasting his time. :/


also pun pun.

Akal Saris
2009-11-10, 09:45 PM
Well, they were level 175, after all - personally, I'd like to see what a 175 lizardfolk fighter's feat list looks like :smallyuk:

Eldariel
2009-11-10, 09:45 PM
All the classic TO things could deal sufficient damage to it to kill it. The problem is that with its spellcasting, it's going to be immune to being dealt damage and it's also going to be immune to dying. Therefore it doesn't even matter if you smite it with 5*10^19 damage since that doesn't faze it one bit. You'd need that + Disjunction (which luckily removes all spells regardless of CL).

That would work with enough characters capable of casting Celerity and the prerequisite spells and dealing epic damage. It doesn't seem to have Epic Spellcasting nor any equipment which means it's limited to just one immediate action worth of answers.


So yeah, pick up a bunch of guys with Hulking Hurler damage, enchanted boulders and so on, Celerity > Disjunction it a couple of times until it runs out of contingencies/celerities/etc. (or just Supernatural Disjunction it with Dweomerkeeper, Initiate of Mystra if it's using AMF or something) and throw a giant rock at it.

It'll take damage which requires scientific notation to express properly and dies 'cause all its buffs just got stripped. A single character with enough crafted Celerities could really pull it off. With Epic Spellcasting or proper equipment, it'd be immortal...or not, since it's immune to Epic Spells and thus cannot Ward itself in any relevant manner.

Bob
2009-11-10, 09:52 PM
I wouldn't venture into this thread w/o a Hammer of Thunderbolts.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-10, 09:57 PM
DC 150 to Diplomacize it into fanatacism (with an additional penalty to pull it off as a Standard action). Done.

Also, cast a sending to its mother, and tell her what a disappointment her Killer Penguin son is. Offer to teleport her to you so she can speak to him in person.

Also, a bag of holding/portable hole combo. It's not teleportation; it's ripping the fabric of space-time and pulling everything through.

Make it watch every episode of Saved By the Bell. There's no making THAT will save.

Also, if you get your metamagic reducers going on recursive, there's always a Heightened dominate monster from your resident nightmare spinner.

Assuming that it doesn't have the divine ability to never fail on a natural 1, take a psion and his psicrystal, research a version of affinity field that reflects 9th level effects. Share affinity field +1 between yourself and your psicrystal. Manifest a normal affinity field, sharing it with your psicrystal, and making sure the fields overlap. You and your psicrystal are now affected by an infinite number of affinity fields. Now, dimension door up to the penguin, and cast something that deals at least 1 hp of damage. The penguin takes infinite damage from infinite sources, and will succeed and fail at an infinite number of DR and SR checks. It dies.

Add 11 levels of factotum to a Cindy build. Congratulations; you can now ignore SR and DR completely, and can deal several hundreds of thousands of damage each round.

Drider
2009-11-10, 10:03 PM
*Note to self: Figure out how to get players to hold a puppet show*

You need to FORCE players to do puppet shows? Do they at least quote monty python?

dentrag2
2009-11-10, 11:36 PM
Step A: Get someone to become Pun-Pun.
Step B: Use the magic of Pun-Pun to summon another evil penguin to fight it.
Step C: Polymorph your party members into the penguin.
5V1, you'll probably win. Or, you know, use your arbitrarily high pun-pun reach to throw it into orbit.
Step D: As an added conundrum, IF you turn into this... Abomination, which one goes first?

chiasaur11
2009-11-10, 11:39 PM
Step A: Get someone to become Pun-Pun.
Step B: Use the magic of Pun-Pun to summon another evil penguin to fight it.
Step C: Polymorph your party members into the penguin.
5V1, you'll probably win. Or, you know, use your arbitrarily high pun-pun reach to throw it into orbit.
Step D: As an added conundrum, IF you turn into this... Abomination, which one goes first?

The red one.

Duh.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-11, 12:17 AM
None of its spells or spell-like abilities were explicitly marked 'epic,' so the following will work if you're in an enclosed space, or at least on the ground in a low place, like a valley: Be a spell-to-power erudite with a full 10 levels in metamind and some way to be entirely immune to null psionics fields (like Initiate of Mystra or something). Use any number of ways to destroy the action economy to cast the barred version of forcecage around the Killer Penguin, then activate a Widened antimagic field, then font of power, schism, metamorphosis into a Large creature, and timeless body. Use bend reality to fill the room up entirely with water. Stay inside the forcecage to keep the penguin engulfed in the AMF. The schism keeps your timeless body up while you refresh your forcecage. Watch as it drowns. Bye bye birdie.

[edit] Oh, and if you're worried about Escape Artist checks? Turn your psicrystal into a solid steel box with one open end, which uses its powers of flight and your shared action economy to move itself over the Killer Penguin and yourself, which is then turned into a box with no open ends. You activate timeless body, which means the psicrystal-turned-box is completely unharmable and inescapable, and even without water, the penguin will suffocate in short order.

Or: send it up against Tucker's Balors.

Tyndmyr
2009-11-11, 10:06 AM
Given that it's immunity to teleportation was extended to Time Stop because of "relativity", it's safe to say that any way around it's ridiculously insane stats will be prevented by DM fiat.

And no, there is no real way to beat anything the DM is willing to break the rules to prevent you from doing so.

Other notes: This DM sounds like a jackass. Good storytelling or not, nobody puts crap like this in thier game seriously.

Level 175? This sounds like the usual D&D rules are being bent over a table and abused. An average of 13.3 encounters to level should result in...oooh, 2000ish encounters to get this high. Unless you play all day, every day, that'd take a while.

AstralFire
2009-11-11, 10:10 AM
ITT: The poster monster for why the ELH should never have been made.

UglyPanda
2009-11-11, 10:17 AM
I think it's one of those cases where the DM played a lot of video games before he started DMing and either never fought a reasonable BBEG as a player or never was a player.

Far too many people think a level 20 wizard is a reasonable enemy for a level 10 party because that's how it works in some video games. I'm not blaming the games though. There are plenty of games that do levels right. But players assume that because those enemies have X-ty times as much HP that they should be a much higher level, not realizing that in those games the player characters are glass cannons and bosses don't do enough damage for their level.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-11, 11:12 AM
I pretty much agree that the DM will simply fiat anything that could hurt it away, but he asked how to defeat something with those stats.

To do so, we have to assume standard RAW, since that's all we have to work with (and any houserules explicitly set out by the OP). We don't have the DM here, and if he was, he could Rule-0 out anything we tried if he wanted to; if so, then asking us to find ways to defeat it serves less than no purpose, né?

By RAW, all of my methods should work. If not, then those are the kinks that we'll have to iron out.

Tyndmyr
2009-11-11, 12:41 PM
I pretty much agree that the DM will simply fiat anything that could hurt it away, but he asked how to defeat something with those stats.

I'm merely saying that the original assumption of "in a fair fight" is blatantly contradicted by the entire scenario. It's not a fair fight, it was never intended to be a fair fight, and it never will be a fair fight.

quiet1mi
2009-11-11, 01:02 PM
Hire a Beguiler 20... ignore his SR... and just placate him... problem solved sealed in a can...

There is also the part of throwing on save spells at him... hiring psudeonatural trolls to hold him off...

this is just some of my thoughts without going epic...

Adumbration
2009-11-11, 01:08 PM
Sounds like a job for the Emerald Legion. (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=101587)

They can at least hold it off for a while, I think.

EDIT: To make it a real challenge, you need to infect them with every single lycanthropy strain there is, and then some.

Cicciograna
2009-11-11, 01:27 PM
Kill the Kobold enough time to bring him back to 1st level. The let him begin his adventuring career again and make him become Pun Pun. Seriously.

jseah
2009-11-11, 01:48 PM
Assuming that stat block you posted is about right, and that you're taking this on at level 175, a single epic multiclass caster can do it.

It doesn't have epic spellcasting. Immunity to epic spells means that the caster just has to do things the other way around.

Ring of sequester + Mind Blank + Incorporeal + on the Ethereal Plane + insane hide check (it's really NI by this level) + darkstalker + Vecna-blooded means you're undetectable short of a Weird Radar.

The Ethereal Reaver weapon can attack from the Ethereal plane to the adjacent plane. Just get the god-forged version of it so you can pierce it's regen.

Ubercharge the thing and push the damage through an Affinity field loop to deal enough damage.

With Epic magic, that could be done in one round. From far enough away that it won't see you coming.

kc0bbq
2009-11-11, 01:58 PM
You need to FORCE players to do puppet shows? Do they at least quote monty python?
"What's that on the television, then?"

"Looks like a penguin."

"No, no, no, I didn't mean what's on the television set, I meant what program."

"Oh."

"It's funny that penguin being there, innit? What's it doing there?"

"Standing."

"I can see that!"

Seatbelt
2009-11-11, 02:01 PM
Assuming that stat block you posted is about right, and that you're taking this on at level 175, a single epic multiclass caster can do it.

It doesn't have epic spellcasting. Immunity to epic spells means that the caster just has to do things the other way around.

Ring of sequester + Mind Blank + Incorporeal + on the Ethereal Plane + insane hide check (it's really NI by this level) + darkstalker + Vecna-blooded means you're undetectable short of a Weird Radar.

The Ethereal Reaver weapon can attack from the Ethereal plane to the adjacent plane. Just get the god-forged version of it so you can pierce it's regen.

Ubercharge the thing and push the damage through an Affinity field loop to deal enough damage.

With Epic magic, that could be done in one round. From far enough away that it won't see you coming.


I love D&D. How awesome is that? On one hand we have characters who do 1D8+6 damage at first level and we think that's respectable. At the other end we have characters charging monsters from a completely separate plane, and one-shotting said monster with over a million HP. God Bless Gary.

Nerd-o-rama
2009-11-11, 02:10 PM
A 3000 HD monster with the ability "you lose"? You guys weren't fighting a killer penguin, you were fighting Prinny Baal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh-QKKiB_KY).

kamikasei
2009-11-11, 02:20 PM
I'm afraid this DM appears to have suffered horrible fail on two counts.

1) The creature is listed as immune to both critical hits and sneak attacks? Doesn't the first subsume the second? Well, I might be mistaken here. More importantly,
2) He didn't think to give it 9001 spell-like abilities and virtual caster levels?

Frosty
2009-11-11, 04:05 PM
1) Kami, love the new avatar

2) Level 175? A Killer Penguin after the final boss with HP in the millions? This isn't DnD...this is now Disgaea, and it's not a penguin, it's a prinny god.

Volkov
2009-11-11, 04:29 PM
Any way, If you require a splat book to find a way to defeat the Aquatic Dinosaur, feel free to use that, just . At that time, November 2006 to be exact, we had acquired the majority of the 3.x splat books around.

Volkov
2009-11-11, 05:09 PM
A 3000 HD monster with the ability "you lose"? You guys weren't fighting a killer penguin, you were fighting Prinny Baal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh-QKKiB_KY).

I'm pretty sure the DM was inspired by metroid prime 2's spider ball guardian. Which he told us he head beaten the day before we first met a killer penguin a hundred levels back.

Deth Muncher
2009-11-11, 05:18 PM
A 3000 HD monster with the ability "you lose"? You guys weren't fighting a killer penguin, you were fighting Prinny Baal (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eh-QKKiB_KY).

I actually just got Disgaea for the DS. Reference to Prinnys makes me lol irl. :D

jseah
2009-11-11, 05:45 PM
Actually, you don't need the affinity field loop. The thing is pretty weak for level 175.

It's possible to make the penguin miss you forever.
Have every miss chance buff you can get your hands on, make them all last days. Stack AC into the stratosphere. Enjoy the penguin having a miniscule (< 0.1%) chance to hit.
Attack roll of +3k? At level 175? You're probably a few hundred thousand short. Not hitting me except on a 20.
Super speed? I don't see Freedom of Movement anywhere on you. Eat Solid Fog.
Oh, spell-like abilities to get FoM? Sorry, they don't work in AMFs.
Oh, the fog and my buffs? I have Initiate of Mystra. Too bad you don't have levels in cleric.

Screw it, the thing might be a decent challenge for a level 40 character if the cheese is turned up. No need to use insane damage loops or weird ****. Just plain CO can kill this dead in an arena.

Outside an arena, if the thing abuses wizard tricks (seeing as it effectively has spells) then killing it would be impossible short of a number of interesting Salient Divine Abilities.
The rest of it's abilities don't matter, it's the three thousand spell-likes.

Glimbur
2009-11-11, 05:48 PM
I was going to use Trollbane on a weapon to beat the regen, but I think poison immunity nullifies that idea. Is there a way around that?

jseah
2009-11-11, 05:58 PM
You're level 175. Tell a god to make the weapon that'll get through the regen.

I note that it can be anything, made of anything, have any magic on it you like. The only condition for it's bypassing regen is the forging process.

Make it an artifact lance while you're at it. Or whatever ubercharger favoured weapon it is by now. (probably not a lance)

Volkov
2009-11-11, 06:02 PM
I actually just got Disgaea for the DS. Reference to Prinnys makes me lol irl. :D

My old DM almost certainly did not get that game, he disliked electronic RPG's for some arbitrary reason and whenever I asked him, he just said he just feels that they aren't as good as pen and paper ones and never will be until computers can meet the flexibility of the human mind.

tyckspoon
2009-11-11, 06:02 PM
Actually, you don't need the affinity field loop. The thing is pretty weak for level 175.

It's possible to make the penguin miss you forever.
Have every miss chance buff you can get your hands on, make them all last days. Stack AC into the stratosphere. Enjoy the penguin having a miniscule (< 0.1%) chance to hit.
Attack roll of +3k? At level 175? You're probably a few hundred thousand short. Not hitting me except on a 20.
Super speed? I don't see Freedom of Movement anywhere on you. Eat Solid Fog.
Oh, spell-like abilities to get FoM? Sorry, they don't work in AMFs.
Oh, the fog and my buffs? I have Initiate of Mystra. Too bad you don't have levels in cleric.

Screw it, the thing might be a decent challenge for a level 40 character if the cheese is turned up. No need to use insane damage loops or weird ****. Just plain CO can kill this dead in an arena.

Outside an arena, if the thing abuses wizard tricks (seeing as it effectively has spells) then killing it would be impossible short of a number of interesting Salient Divine Abilities.
The rest of it's abilities don't matter, it's the three thousand spell-likes.

It also has over a thousand available feats. It's probably best to assume it has the Mage Slayer line (no defensive casting, ability to ignore and dispel magical AC increases and miss chances) as well as Exceptional and Infinite Deflection, making it functionally immune to direct ranged attack. Without those, tho, you could nuke it pretty easily with Searing Spell Orbs of Fire, especially with 175 levels worth of bonus metamagic feats to play with.

Be a Cancer Mage. Contract Vile Rigidity and Festering Anger. Go sit in a cave for a hundred years nursing your diseases. Come out with your arbitrarily high Strength and Natural Armor scores (cast Scintillating Scales to flip the NA to Deflection.) Smack the Penguin across the face.

Volkov
2009-11-11, 06:07 PM
You're level 175. Tell a god to make the weapon that'll get through the regen.

I note that it can be anything, made of anything, have any magic on it you like. The only condition for it's bypassing regen is the forging process.

Make it an artifact lance while you're at it. Or whatever ubercharger favoured weapon it is by now. (probably not a lance)

His flavor of gods had them being incredibly powerful as he didn't quite like how easy the gods were to kill in the splat books. 400 hit dice for vecna alone...

Chrono22
2009-11-11, 06:11 PM
My level 20 wizard could do it...
using the same strategy as the last ubermonster that graced these boards.

Volkov
2009-11-11, 06:12 PM
My level 20 wizard could do it...
using the same strategy as the last ubermonster that graced these boards.

Only this penguin can throw wizard spells back, with a CL of 3000.

Chrono22
2009-11-11, 06:14 PM
Only this penguin can throw wizard spells back, with a CL of 3000.
That's pretty much irrelevant if I defeat it without ever being the the same plane.

Volkov
2009-11-11, 06:14 PM
That's pretty much irrelevant if I defeat it without ever being the the same plane.

He could follow.

Chrono22
2009-11-11, 06:15 PM
He could follow.
Not really. He's bigger than my plane, he can't occupy it.

I suppose he could change his size: but then it just becomes a matter of keeping the planes' existance a secret. And then barring extraplanar travel to and from it.

There is also a divine salient ability that can kill the penguin automatically.

Volkov
2009-11-11, 06:19 PM
Not really. He's bigger than my plane, he can't occupy it.

I'm guessing your using the genesis spell. Which is the only thing I can remember as being able to do that, and if memory serve's, it was more of a hidey place creator than an impenetrable pillbox. Not to mention, what's stopping himself from reducing his size with magic, which is what a Giant wizard would do if faced with a similar problem.

Swordguy
2009-11-11, 06:22 PM
And so we come full circle. Here we go again:


Got it! Eschew Materials feat + Major Creation.

There's no book value listed for either Osmium or it's antimatter counterpart. Just summon Anti-Osmium to the limit of your casting ability in contact with the critter. (Point of order: given an Earth-equivalent density, and assuming it has the DR of rock at all points, it takes a 17th level caster to summon enough Anti-Osmium to fragment the planet. Imagine what a 50th could do.)

EDIT:
Osmium is 22610 kg/cubic meter. A 50th level caster summons 50 cubic feet, or a cube 3.7 feet to a side. This converts over to be roughly 15.25 cubic meters, for a final density of 344,802 kg. 1 gram of antimatter produces roughly a 43 kiloton reaction (doubling once the matter is added into the equation, so the detonation of 1g of AM in contact with 1g of matter is 86kt). We have 344,802,500 grams of anti-osmium, for a total yield of 29,653,015,000,000 kilotons. (these are metric tons of 1,000kg each, for a total of 29,653,015,000,000,000 kiloGRAMS of TNT) 1 lb of TNT does 3d6 damage, or, converting over, 0.454 kg of TNT does 3d6 damage. So, dividing 29,653,015,000,000,000 by 0.454 yields 65,315,011,013,215,859 increments of 3d6. So, multiply by three, and get 195,945,033,039,647,577d6 damage.

Congratulations, you've just done 195 quadrillion damage minimum. Your average damage is 685,807,615,638,766,519 hp.

685 quadrillion hp damage. That ought to blow through most DR. And it's not fire damage (even though TNT is usually thought of that way). It's just plain old force damage.

And when your DM complains that antimatter doesn't exist in D&D, point out that the DMG explicitly states that the physical laws of the real world apply except where explicitly changed or ignored by case-by-case game rules, or where your DM has assumed differently to build his personal campaign world. Did he change the laws of physics in his campaign briefing? Then tough luck for him.

Then spray said DM with a water bottle or hit him with a rolled-up newspaper or something for having a game like this.

Chrono22
2009-11-11, 06:23 PM
I'm guessing your using the genesis spell. Which is the only thing I can remember as being able to do that, and if memory serve's, it was more of a hidey place creator than an impenetrable pillbox. Not to mention, what's stopping himself from reducing his size with magic, which is what a Giant wizard would do if faced with a similar problem.
Well, I'm done talking hypotheticals.
If he looks into the future, sees my attempt to destroy him, locates my plane, and can use his magic to enter my closet-sized universe, will he do so?

EleventhHour
2009-11-11, 06:24 PM
And so we come full circle. Here we go again:



And when your DM complains that antimatter doesn't exist in D&D, point out that the DMG explicitly states that the physical laws of the real world apply except where explicitly changed or ignored by case-by-case game rules, or where your DM has assumed differently to build his personal campaign world. Did he change the laws of physics in his campaign briefing? Then tough luck for him.

Then spray said DM with a water bottle or hit him with a rolled-up newspaper or something for having a game like this.


You would have to bring that up, again. :smalltongue:

Volkov
2009-11-11, 06:24 PM
And so we come full circle. Here we go again:



And when your DM complains that antimatter doesn't exist in D&D, point out that the DMG explicitly states that the physical laws of the real world apply except where explicitly changed or ignored by case-by-case game rules, or where your DM has assumed differently to build his personal campaign world. Did he change the laws of physics in his campaign briefing? Then tough luck for him.

Then spray said DM with a water bottle or hit him with a rolled-up newspaper or something for having a game like this.

What type of damage would you qualify this, or would you break the damage up into multiple types? I.E, unspecified for the ionizing radiation, fire for the thermal energy, bludgeoning for the shockwave, possibly piercing and slashing for the shrapnel, or at least that's how I'd classify the damage types.

Volkov
2009-11-11, 06:26 PM
Well, I'm done talking hypotheticals.
If he looks into the future, sees my attempt to destroy him, locates my plane, and can use his magic to enter my closet-sized universe, will he do so?
If it's a closet sized place, he'd probably take a bit to shrink down to the proper size, where you could hit him. At least assuming shrink object is being used as the size reduction spell.

Chrono22
2009-11-11, 06:28 PM
If it's a closet sized place, he'd probably take a bit to shrink down to the proper size, where you could hit him. At least assuming shrink object is being used as the size reduction spell.
That's not really my question though- is he going to enter my closet-sized plane to attack me?

Swordguy
2009-11-11, 06:31 PM
What type of damage would you qualify this, or would you break the damage up into multiple types? I.E, unspecified for the ionizing radiation, fire for the thermal energy, bludgeoning for the shockwave, possibly piercing and slashing for the shrapnel, or at least that's how I'd classify the damage types.

"Explosive" damage in the DMG is split between force and fire, with ratios at the DM's discretion, IIRC.

But with the sheer amount of damage being dealt here, it doesn't matter. It'll completely overload the Fire Resistance, and it's not immune or resistant to Force damage at all. Spell resistance doesn't apply, because it's not being targeted by a spell.

Granted, this is a thought exercise and not supposed to be actually used in game play (given an Earth-like world of approximately equal density, it's enough damage to destroy the planet several times over), but it will kill your critter.



You would have to bring that up, again. :smalltongue:

Are you seriously suggesting that it's not appropriate to this thread? I wouldn't being it up if it wasn't apropos. :smallwink:

jseah
2009-11-11, 06:33 PM
Mage-Slayer line:
The thing can't damage you anyway. Not with an AoO attack. It has to get through a million to one miss chance and roll a nat. 20. I think the AC record for level 20 is a few thousand by now. Level 175? hahaha...

Furthermore, the thing has a measly 15ft reach. It's probably more if you give it time to buff though. Won't match your reach since you have bloodstorm blade.

----------------------------------------------------------

If we're bringing it out of an arena fight, no one stands a chance at killing it. Much like it's basically impossible to kill an epic wizard if he really really does not want to die.

You can keep it on the defense, hunkered down in it's own demi-plane. If it steps out, it dies. But going in there is plain suicide.

EleventhHour
2009-11-11, 06:37 PM
Are you seriously suggesting that it's not appropriate to this thread? I wouldn't being it up if it wasn't apropos. :smallwink:

Entirely appropriate. Just painful to see that much science. :smallwink::smallbiggrin:

Volkov
2009-11-11, 06:40 PM
That's not really my question though- is he going to enter my closet-sized plane to attack me?

Probably as soon as he's done shrinking. Which would give you roughly 6 rounds. As while my DM was something of a sadist, he wasn't the type to give a secondarily spell casting monster several copies of the feat that allows you to cast multiple quickened spells. So would your plan work in six rounds? Because in december our old group will get together and do that fight again and try to see if we can win without deux ex machina en masse.

Chrono22
2009-11-11, 06:43 PM
Ok, I'll illustrate my strategy since Volkov isn't biting.
My character is a wizard 9/red wizard 10/archmage 1. He has leadership, and the minion and followers that entails.
He has three planes he created using the Genasis spell. One is his base of operations- the home of his followers, his offices, etc. One is occupied, whose land of which is made entirely of solid platinum.
The third appears to be a janitor closet. Let's space it so that it's ten feet long, five feet wide, and five feet tall.

My character uses his circle magic leader ability to boost his caster level to 40. I'm not sure why I bother, but it never hurts to have a high caster level.
He then plans to gate in a great wyrm force dragon, and send it to the penguin's home, wherever that might be. The dragon will die, obviously.. but it at least gets the penguin's attention.
If he has the right set of divination spells up, he should have spotted this attempt two weeks in advance. Assuming he takes action, and locates the plane of origin, he might decide to go there. The only problem being, for whatever reason, he is entirely unable to see anything in the plane except a solid block of cheese (5 ft. cube), and a broom closet.

Does he go there? Ok, your answer was in the affirmative.
Assuming he enters the plane, he enters an antimagic field. His body immediately expands to touch the block of cheese (which lies just outside the edge of the field). It is the trigger effect for a Trap the Soul spell. It has his name written on it. I don't imagine acquiring the name of a 3000 HD ubermonster will be hard.
He loses his soul and body, as they are forcibly transported into a 3,000,000 gp gem on my platinum plane. He gets no save and no spell resistance.

Volkov
2009-11-11, 06:50 PM
Ok, I'll illustrate my strategy since Volkov isn't biting.
My character is a wizard 9/red wizard 10/archmage 1. He has leadership, and the minion and followers that entails.
He has three planes he created using the Genasis spell. One is his base of operations- the home of his followers, his offices, etc. One is occupied, whose land of which is made entirely of solid platinum.
The third appears to be a janitor closet. Let's space it so that it's ten feet long, five feet wide, and five feet tall.

My character uses his circle magic leader ability to boost his caster level to 40. I'm not sure why I bother, but it never hurts to have a high caster level.
He then plans to send gate in a great wyrm force dragon, and send it to the penguin's home, wherever that might be. The dragon will die, obviously.. but it at least gets the penguin's attention.
If he has the right set of divination spells up, he should have spotted this attempt two weeks in advance. Assuming he takes action, and locates the plane of origin, he might decide to go there. The only problem being, for whatever reason, he is entirely unable to see anything in the plane except a solid block of cheese (5 ft. cube), and a broom closet.

Does he go there?
Probably only to eat the cheese and then take a nap. Our campaign would sometimes be quite silly.

tyckspoon
2009-11-11, 06:50 PM
Mage-Slayer line:
The thing can't damage you anyway. Not with an AoO attack. It has to get through a million to one miss chance and roll a nat. 20. I think the AC record for level 20 is a few thousand by now. Level 175? hahaha...

Furthermore, the thing has a measly 15ft reach. It's probably more if you give it time to buff though. Won't match your reach since you have bloodstorm blade.


Would you like to actually tell us what those miss chances are sourced from, or are you just assuming they exist? Pierce Magical Concealment automatically negates any concealment effects from spells or items, as well as Mirror Image. The creature as written ignores any Epic spells, including your self-buffs. With those two sources gone I suspect you have a much more difficult time achieving that high a miss chance.. and your level 175 AC probably isn't that much higher than your level 20 AC, not within the existing rules and without using Epic spells.

jseah
2009-11-11, 07:15 PM
Hmm... Pierce Magical Concealment.
That does drop miss chance rather alot. I'll have to drop that line. It just means I'll have to one-shot it instead. Time to bring back the damage loops.

AC. X Stat to Y Bonus is probably the thread you're looking for. Just get every stat to AC over and over again. There's more than enough levels to go around.
Then get stat bonuses to stats. (Tattoed Monk, Void Disciple) XD Or get a consumptive field loop going.

Consumptive Field loop seems like the way to go here. NI caster level is easily attained if you level in dual-casting prestige classes that add caster levels from the two classes that lead in. (I can't remember off the top of my head, and it's late)
Then just nuke it with NI range, NI damage Wings of Flurry.

Of course, there's probably a way to make it true infinity, but I can't think of it yet.

-----------------------------------------------

Or heck, just be immune to damage. Be a Deathless -> Immunity to non-lethal (and other undead immunities, plus not subject to turning). Regeneration -> Non-fire/acid damage becomes non-lethal -> Immune. Energy Immunity -> Immune to Fire/Acid. Or just be Fire subtype.

Volkov
2009-11-11, 07:49 PM
Hmm... Pierce Magical Concealment.
That does drop miss chance rather alot. I'll have to drop that line. It just means I'll have to one-shot it instead. Time to bring back the damage loops.

AC. X Stat to Y Bonus is probably the thread you're looking for. Just get every stat to AC over and over again. There's more than enough levels to go around.
Then get stat bonuses to stats. (Tattoed Monk, Void Disciple) XD Or get a consumptive field loop going.

Consumptive Field loop seems like the way to go here. NI caster level is easily attained if you level in dual-casting prestige classes that add caster levels from the two classes that lead in. (I can't remember off the top of my head, and it's late)
Then just nuke it with NI range, NI damage Wings of Flurry.

Of course, there's probably a way to make it true infinity, but I can't think of it yet.

-----------------------------------------------

Or heck, just be immune to damage. Be a Deathless -> Immunity to non-lethal (and other undead immunities, plus not subject to turning). Regeneration -> Non-fire/acid damage becomes non-lethal -> Immune. Energy Immunity -> Immune to Fire/Acid. Or just be Fire subtype.

What damage type would that wings of flurry be?

Kylarra
2009-11-11, 07:55 PM
What damage type would that wings of flurry be?WoF is untyped.

The Gilded Duke
2009-11-11, 07:57 PM
After reading the "penguin eats the cheese" response.
It is obvious.
Volkov is the DM.

And even if he isn't, he is warping the scenario so that the Penguin always wins.

dentrag2
2009-11-11, 08:35 PM
Once more, Pun-Pun could easily solve this problem.

Volkov
2009-11-11, 08:54 PM
After reading the "penguin eats the cheese" response.
It is obvious.
Volkov is the DM.

And even if he isn't, he is warping the scenario so that the Penguin always wins.
Look, I know him on a pretty personal level. I can tell how he thinks. Heck, wouldn't you after 13 years of being someone's best friend?

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-11, 09:24 PM
Think this could work? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7298120&postcount=11) You'd only need one set of ring gates, of course.

jseah
2009-11-12, 02:57 AM
WoF is untyped.

WoF is force damage. IIRC.

Killer Angel
2009-11-12, 04:55 AM
Think this could work? (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7298120&postcount=11) You'd only need one set of ring gates, of course.

Lol... ninjaed by a day.
I was redirecting Volkov to that thread and to your posts. :smallsmile:

Myou
2009-11-12, 06:08 AM
And so we come full circle. Here we go again:



And when your DM complains that antimatter doesn't exist in D&D, point out that the DMG explicitly states that the physical laws of the real world apply except where explicitly changed or ignored by case-by-case game rules, or where your DM has assumed differently to build his personal campaign world. Did he change the laws of physics in his campaign briefing? Then tough luck for him.

Then spray said DM with a water bottle or hit him with a rolled-up newspaper or something for having a game like this.

Major Creation can't make antimatter. :smallsigh:

Kurald Galain
2009-11-12, 06:47 AM
Assert:

(1) the penguin has nightvision
(2) the penguin has claws and a tail
(3) the penguin has good stealth skills
(4) from 1, 2, 3 we can infer that a penguin is kind of cat. If we posit that the penguin is female (which has a 50% chance) it is therefore a catgirl.
(5) the DM will start debating that biologically speaking, a penguin is not a cat. Or maybe he'll start pointing out the physical properties of osmium.
(6) the aforementioned debate will kill the catgirl. Penguin is now dead.
(7) ???
(8) Profit!

Volkov
2009-11-12, 07:00 AM
Assert:

(1) the penguin has nightvision
(2) the penguin has claws and a tail
(3) the penguin has good stealth skills
(4) from 1, 2, 3 we can infer that a penguin is kind of cat. If we posit that the penguin is female (which has a 50% chance) it is therefore a catgirl.
(5) the DM will start debating that biologically speaking, a penguin is not a cat. Or maybe he'll start pointing out the physical properties of osmium.
(6) the aforementioned debate will kill the catgirl. Penguin is now dead.
(7) ???
(8) Profit!

The penguin has feathers and lays eggs. It is a bird. The Debate cannot be continued due to this. :smallbiggrin:

BobVosh
2009-11-12, 07:16 AM
The penguin has feathers and lays eggs. It is a bird. The Debate cannot be continued due to this. :smallbiggrin:

I would like to point out the platypus! It is proof that mammals can do crazy things. The cat is a mammal, and likes to do crazy things. I can see this. More over it seems to be the offspring of the penguin and catwoman, making it half-cat, therefore counts as a cat for all purposes, also penguin.

Volkov
2009-11-12, 07:32 AM
I would like to point out the platypus! It is proof that mammals can do crazy things. The cat is a mammal, and likes to do crazy things. I can see this. More over it seems to be the offspring of the penguin and catwoman, making it half-cat, therefore counts as a cat for all purposes, also penguin.

Platypi lack feathers. The penguin is a merging of a squid, a dinosaur *points to the first guy who can guess which dinosaur*, a terror bird, and a penguin.

Sliver
2009-11-12, 07:32 AM
Is this some kind of "find the loophole" thread?

Volkov
2009-11-12, 07:33 AM
Is this some kind of "find the loophole" thread?
It's find how to kill the monster in a straight up fight. Because if we cannot find a proper plan for our group reunion rematch against the Dino-Squid-bird beast, we will summon the core defender to fight 3000 hit dice monster with 10,000 hit dice monster.

BobVosh
2009-11-12, 07:45 AM
Cleric with gate on list. Consumptive field enough to get a 3002 CL. There is some silly infinite loop for this. Gate in a 3001 HD version of one.

Sliver
2009-11-12, 07:47 AM
But you are really just asking about stuff that your DM had forgotten to cover in monster creation..

Volkov
2009-11-12, 07:47 AM
So I won't need to summon a giant bipedal walker of doom from our Sci-fi campaign setting?

katans
2009-11-12, 08:07 AM
Is there a Silly Thread Ranking somewhere on this board? If yes, I vote for this one here. If no, I still vote for this one here.

And I vote for Diplomacy as well. Char level 175 means a Diplomacy mod in the stratosphere without even trying. Having a ZOMG-esque Diplomacy means that you only need to intend to talk to him. He can see into the future, so he'll know what you're gonna tell him, and given your 1337 diplomacy skill, he'll be convinced by your yet-to-be argumentation, even with a -100 circumstance modifier. You simply need to exist and acknowledge his existence, and he'll welcome you as a friend when you meet him. Team up and rule the universe. You win D&D.

Cyclocone
2009-11-12, 08:50 AM
I don't see immunity to Implosion or critical failure on this thing, which makes me think it's killable by ecl 20 without real infinity loops. All you need is balors.

Okay, so, here's what i need:
Disclaimer: I'm AFB ATM, so I might have overlooked something.

Roald Amundsen, eater of penguins.
Tiefling wizard 2/ardent 1/cerebremancer 8/war weaver 4/spellguard of silverymoon 4, CR 20.
Feats: spell focus: transmutation, toughening transmutation, infernal bargainer, practiced manifester, combat casting, enlarge spell, precious apprentice.

Roald first sets up a genesis demiplane to have a place to work from.
He then planar binds a lot of balors and mindrapes them into willing slaves; this might take a while if he wants to avoid looping.

He then chaos shuffles the weapon focus of his balors into supernatural transformation: implosion. (He might need some way to negate the XP cost on shun/embrace, I suggest thoughtbottles or binding and mindraping some efreet.)
Finally, he makes sure all the balors are in his tapestry and loads it with celerity. He then takes off to KFC some penguin.

So, he meets the penguin, and it wins initiative; in response, Roald then manifests anticipatory strike.
He then uses his standard action to dispel the penguins buffs with mordenkainens disjunction
Next, using his move action, he releses his tapestry -granting all the balors a standard action, which they use to cast implosion on the penguin.

Since the penguin still fails on a 1 and Roald has brought +lol balors with him it's practically assured that the stupid bird folds.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-12, 11:17 AM
Level 5 crusader:

"I'm afraid.

"This penguin is the source of my fear.

"IRON HEART SUUUUUURGE!"

Winthur
2009-11-12, 11:19 AM
Try Holy Hand Grenade of Antioch. :smalleek: Seriously, what the hell is this supposed to be? :smalleek:

Ravens_cry
2009-11-12, 11:28 AM
Meh, Snuggles (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=93068&page=8)could take him down.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-12, 11:29 AM
Pray to the gods of metal. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pxEH-v7E5U&NR=1) Overcome its epicness with epically-distilled AWESOME.

Tyndmyr
2009-11-12, 11:31 AM
Make penguin similacrum armies.

Use epic magic to create life. Abuse said life to create an arbitrarily powerful creature. Make it...Killer killer whale. All the stats of the penguin, times two. Off they go to battle.

Alternatively, distract it with a trap that creates fish endlessly.

This can't be taken seriously, since it's a stupid encounter to begin with. Thus, the proper response is to lampshade exactly how stupid it is.

jiriku
2009-11-12, 12:43 PM
When siege engineers have to overcome a stone wall, they aim for its weakest point. Often that's not the wall itself, but the ground under it.

Don't risk another frontal assault; that penguin's dynamite. Instead, attack the ground he's standing on.

All of it.

Astrally project. Piss him off, then retreat to a genesis pocket plane. If you make him mad enough, he'll follow you. Then use instantaneous, nondispellable epic magic to lock your plane so that no one can go in or out by any means. You aren't targetting him with it, you're targetting the plane, thus his immunity to epic magic is irrelevant. He will quickly kill you, which will return you to your material bodies.

Congrats, the penguin is now locked inside a pocket plane with no entry or exit. For lols, locate the plane inside a snow globe, paper weight, or keychain fob, so you can put it on your desk or carry it in your pocket.

Jayabalard
2009-11-12, 12:54 PM
Astrally project. <snip> Then use instantaneous, nondispellable epic magic to lock your plane so that no one can go in or out by any means. <snip> He will quickly kill you, which will return you to your material bodies.Personally, I'd rule that "no one can go in or out by any means" = yours spirit are also locked in that plane and cannot return to your material bodies.

t_catt11
2009-11-12, 12:58 PM
This is silly. Can I cast my vote for the silliness factor of this thread?

Telonius
2009-11-12, 01:28 PM
"So, Mr. All-powerful penguin-thingie, you've spent all this time and effort becoming the strongest thing in the multiverse. Great job! But there's still something lacking. You aren't perfect. See, I know your weakness. I'll make a bet with you. I know that there's something you absolutely can't do. In fact, I bet you can't. If you can do this thing, I'll leave and declare you the winner. But if you can't, you have to leave me unharmed and do whatever I say. And don't worry, I'm never telling what it is, so if you don't guess you can just spend eternity wondering what it is that you can't do. So, what's it gonna be?"

If he takes the bet: "Lose to me in fair combat."

chiasaur11
2009-11-12, 01:39 PM
"So, Mr. All-powerful penguin-thingie, you've spent all this time and effort becoming the strongest thing in the multiverse. Great job! But there's still something lacking. You aren't perfect. See, I know your weakness. I'll make a bet with you. I know that there's something you absolutely can't do. In fact, I bet you can't. If you can do this thing, I'll leave and declare you the winner. But if you can't, you have to leave me unharmed and do whatever I say. And don't worry, I'm never telling what it is, so if you don't guess you can just spend eternity wondering what it is that you can't do. So, what's it gonna be?"

If he takes the bet: "Lose to me in fair combat."

I prefer "Die, and stay dead."

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-12, 01:40 PM
I prefer "Die, and stay dead."I prefer, "be a real boy!"

By the way, is this going to lead to a "1001 things that the Killer Penguin can't do" meme? Kind of like the whole Chuck Norris thing?

Deth Muncher
2009-11-12, 01:43 PM
I prefer, "be a real boy!"

By the way, is this going to lead to a "1001 things that the Killer Penguin can't do" meme? Kind of like the whole Chuck Norris thing?

I hope not, although the Greek story of putting an apple in the corner of a room comes to mind.

Although unless it's super-adamantine, the Prinny could just hop through the wall.

Tyndmyr
2009-11-12, 01:44 PM
I prefer, "be a real boy!"


I prefer: "dodge this book". Then nail the DM with it. Repeat until the protests cease.

Kurald Galain
2009-11-12, 01:45 PM
If he takes the bet: "Lose to me in fair combat."

Okay, so if he does actually lose to you, you have to renege on your victory and declare him the winner; and if he doesn't lose to you, then he has to do what you say but you are dead. Is that really what you want? :smallbiggrin:

Winthur
2009-11-12, 02:01 PM
By the way, is this going to lead to a "1001 things that the Killer Penguin can't do" meme? Kind of like the whole Chuck Norris thing?

Killer Penguin is Mr. Welsh's pet?

Telonius
2009-11-12, 03:09 PM
Okay, so if he does actually lose to you, you have to renege on your victory and declare him the winner; and if he doesn't lose to you, then he has to do what you say but you are dead. Is that really what you want? :smallbiggrin:

That's what the "leave me unharmed" clause was about. :smallbiggrin: And if he does lose to me, then he's dead and can do no more harm to me.

I'd rather have this thing as my servant, than dead. You'd still get XP for having defeated it anyway, just not through physical combat.

Myrmex
2009-11-12, 03:53 PM
Use teleport to shoot a sword right into its heart.

Indon
2009-11-12, 04:02 PM
Use an epic spell to teleport the planet and everything on it away. It doesn't come with you.

Use a 1d2 weapon in that ridiculous Crusader or Cleric or whatever infinite damage combo where you reroll both 1's and 2's for damage (and add all 2's together).

Edit: Actually, just the epic spell to strand it in space will do. It only moves about 3,000 miles an hour and since it still needs to breathe, it asphyxiates due to lack of sufficient oxygen per the drowning rules.

Alternately, teleport the Plane of Water to it. Again, needs air to breathe, dies in a few hundred rounds.

There is one provision:you need to AMF it or something first.

Volkov
2009-11-12, 04:43 PM
Use teleport to shoot a sword right into its heart.

I'm pretty sure that'd just count as a critical hit with some con damage. And he's immune to both.

Oddly though, he didn't give his penguin a hold breath special quality like whales and some other animals do.

Telonius
2009-11-12, 04:51 PM
Hm, he also gave it the possibility of being damaged by a future sleepwalking god.

Aren't mindflayers squid thingies supposed to be from the future?

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-12, 05:03 PM
What's the DC on an epic spell that grants the target +100,000 to all stats for 24 hours?

Mitigate whatever it is, then cast that on the party's meatshields summons, and have at it.

Shouldn't take long after that.

Volkov
2009-11-12, 05:53 PM
Hm, he also gave it the possibility of being damaged by a future sleepwalking god.

Aren't mindflayers squid thingies supposed to be from the future?

The weapon would have to have been lost in the far realm and later retrieved, and that's the killer penguin species' native plane according to him. But that won't really be a problem. (Hopefully.)

Norr
2009-11-12, 06:17 PM
The weapon would have to have been lost in the far realm and later retrieved, and that's the killer penguin species' native plane according to him.

I'm not 100% sure of this, but I believe the first mindflayers came from that very same far realm. In any case, get Illsenine to forge the weapon while sleepwalking, then get a Cat From Saturn to take it to the far realm and back. If your DM is a big fan of homebrew he wouldn't have anything against the catburglars. :smalltongue:

Volkov
2009-11-12, 06:26 PM
I'm not 100% sure of this, but I believe the first mindflayers came from that very same far realm. In any case, get Illsenine to forge the weapon while sleepwalking, then get a Cat From Saturn to take it to the far realm and back. If your DM is a big fan of homebrew he wouldn't have anything against the catburglars. :smalltongue:

In the first bout, the BBEG had a long sword, an axe, a dagger, a heavy crossbow, a composite bow, and throwing axes from a far realm entity, and as far realm entities defy time itself, it bypassed the future thing altogether. I hope that we will still have those weapons. As they could penetrate it's DR as well and were incredibly strong weapons.

AshDesert
2009-11-12, 06:42 PM
I just have one question. How long did it take you to get to LEVEL 175? At that point, the rules don't even matter, since you can just break the game with epic spells and have a high enough Spellcraft to cast a bunch of super special mega awesome buffs with a standard action.

Volkov
2009-11-12, 06:45 PM
It took us 4 years. And he could figure out a way to keep things balanced at level's past 150. I myself really can't get much past 125 without stuff breaking down.

Inhuman Bot
2009-11-12, 07:30 PM
Major Creation can't make antimatter. :smallsigh:

Where does it say that?


It took us 4 years. And he could figure out a way to keep things balanced at level's past 150. I myself really can't get much past 125 without stuff breaking down.

Possibly because D&D ISN'T MEANT TO BE PLAYED AT THIS LEVEL...

UglyPanda
2009-11-12, 07:35 PM
I'm assuming that the characters weren't very optimized. Or that all of your enemies were given arbitrarily high stats.

I personally don't think D&D can be played past level 40 at most. I'm playing level 22 in a PbP and everyone has so many extra turns and actions that it would have taken over two hours to do a single round of combat if we were at a real table.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-12, 07:36 PM
In the first bout, the BBEG had a long sword, an axe, a dagger, a heavy crossbow, a composite bow, and throwing axes from a far realm entity, and as far realm entities defy time itself, it bypassed the future thing altogether. I hope that we will still have those weapons. As they could penetrate it's DR as well and were incredibly strong weapons.We've suggested a few dozen things you can try; you aren't prevented from trying all of them.

Also, use divinations to your advantage, and make sure your character knows everything it has. Including all of its feats.

Swordguy
2009-11-12, 08:17 PM
Where does it say that?

It doesn't. He's just not aware that an antimatter version of "x" really is just a hunk of "x" with positively positively charged electrons and negatively charged protons. It's still "matter" (in that it exists, has mass, and takes up space), and in the case of anti-osmium, it's still a type of mineral - thus eligible to be created by Major Creation.

Asbestos
2009-11-12, 08:24 PM
TL;DR

Guys, he said that his DM accounted for Relativity!


Commoner Rail Gun!!


Edit: Alternatively there is Chuck (http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19866466/The_CO_response_to_fastest_possible_speed&post_num=311) to consider.

With E=MC^2 in effect + the standard rules that spawned Chuck in the first place a level 175 Chuck is doing... well, he's doing enough damage to kill your penguin, and to quite possibly surpass Swordguy's Antimatter solution.

Volkov
2009-11-12, 08:28 PM
We've suggested a few dozen things you can try; you aren't prevented from trying all of them.

Also, use divinations to your advantage, and make sure your character knows everything it has. Including all of its feats.

We're going to try each and every one of them.

Pyro_Azer
2009-11-12, 08:54 PM
I do not know if this has been said but there was a challenge on the wotc co boards a while back to defeat a monster called the untrammeled titan of oblivion. Ican't access the thread right now but it was a monster of cr 150ish that had a lot of abilities that made it very hard to defeat.

They killed it with a <20th lvl character.

The solution was a wu-jen/ spellgaurd of silverymoon. Give the thing transcend mortality with the spellgaurd's ability and dismiss it. Result? Death no save.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-12, 09:05 PM
Is there anything that can be done with The Wish and The Word (http://www.dandwiki.com/wiki/The_Wish_and_the_Word_%28DnD_Optimized_Character_B uild%29)?

Granted, my wizard would take both out in short order with a quick silence spell and a few thousand railgun-wishes, but meh.

I know the penguin is 3000 hit dice, but I'm sure someone can figure out how to boost Caster Level through the stratosphere. Maybe some shenanigans to get PrCs that increase multiple caster levels of multiple classes, along with some feats (Practiced Spellcaster!) and other items that improve them as well?

A nice consumptive field and a holy word or two would definitely be in order here.

Volkov
2009-11-12, 09:09 PM
I do not know if this has been said but there was a challenge on the wotc co boards a while back to defeat a monster called the untrammeled titan of oblivion. Ican't access the thread right now but it was a monster of cr 150ish that had a lot of abilities that made it very hard to defeat.

They killed it with a <20th lvl character.

The solution was a wu-jen/ spellgaurd of silverymoon. Give the thing transcend mortality with the spellgaurd's ability and dismiss it. Result? Death no save.


Note: After talking with the DM on Gmail I got some news about the reunion.

In addition to our old party, a party of a Half Dragon Troglodyte Barbarian, A Green Dragon Spawn Zealot Cleric, a Nimblewright rogue, a needlefolk ranger, and a spell-weaver sorcerer to the group may help even the odds since the DM is bringing in the group from his other campaign. They are roughly our level or so.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-12, 10:18 PM
Note: After talking with the DM on Gmail I got some news about the reunion.

In addition to our old party, a party of a Half Dragon Troglodyte Barbarian, A Green Dragon Spawn Zealot Cleric, a Nimblewright rogue, a needlefolk ranger, and a spell-weaver sorcerer to the group may help even the odds since the DM is bringing in the group from his other campaign. They are roughly our level or so.The spell-weaver and the cleric might be useful, but the other ones are gonna be liabilities, unless you plan on buffing them with spells specifically designed for this encounter.

BobVosh
2009-11-13, 12:30 AM
I too am fond of a ridiculous epic spell to teleport the whole planet from under it. Then let it suffocate. I recommend doing it like Tiamet did in Dragonlance. Since you are level 175 it should be easy, Tiamet is only like 50 or so. In fact, what is your divine rank? Why doesn't the KP have one? For the clerics: are they clerics of themselves? If not it doesn't make sense: they are far bigger than any god created. They only thing beyond bizarre amphibious critter they should ever have to fear is the Lady of Pain. Even that is questionable.

Tyndmyr
2009-11-13, 01:27 AM
I just have one question. How long did it take you to get to LEVEL 175? At that point, the rules don't even matter, since you can just break the game with epic spells and have a high enough Spellcraft to cast a bunch of super special mega awesome buffs with a standard action.

Im kind of amused by the idea of a character that high. I would presume that everyone has a couple of full caster classes maxed(hell, I would have had full level 20 sorc, wiz and cleric casting, at a minimum). The amount of abilities from PrCs is no doubt insane. The possible synergy should be mind-bending.

Even if it's four years, that still seems like ridiculously fast leveling. Assuming you play weekly, and only miss two games a year, that's only 200 games in total. So, even with rather heavy play, you're still leveling almost every session.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-13, 02:00 AM
They could very well be playing 3 or 4 (or more) times per week, and be up against some really high CR opponents for their level (this is pretty much a "duhr, that's a given").

Kylarra
2009-11-13, 02:01 AM
At epic+ levels, CR is really just a bigger boomstick and more utility anyway.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-13, 02:18 AM
At epic+ levels, CR is really just a bigger boomstick and more utility anyway.Pretty much any epic creature can be taken down with intelligent use of pre-epic casters in any case. Many times not even requiring 9th level spells (though they do make it easiest).

Kylarra
2009-11-13, 02:19 AM
Pretty much any epic creature can be taken down with intelligent use of pre-epic casters in any case. Many times not even requiring 9th level spells (though they do make it easiest).
It just depends on how much meta you get in your game, but I agree.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-13, 02:26 AM
It just depends on how much meta you get in your game, but I agree."Meta" nothing. That's what divinations are for...or the ability to swap out on the fly (you can get your own fast-forwarding demiplane by level 11 if you want it; possibly sooner).

Kylarra
2009-11-13, 02:29 AM
"Meta" nothing. That's what divinations are for...or the ability to swap out on the fly (you can get your own fast-forwarding demiplane by level 11 if you want it; possibly sooner).
Well sure. All the monsters that don't also have spellcasting are probably fodder because casting = godly. :smalltongue:


Non-associated levels ftw.

Volkov
2009-11-13, 03:59 PM
Pretty much any epic creature can be taken down with intelligent use of pre-epic casters in any case. Many times not even requiring 9th level spells (though they do make it easiest).

Excluding epic dragons, as they can use epic magic.

Volkov
2009-11-13, 05:55 PM
Any way as I would maintain the position of the party leader, how should I manage my (soon to be) newly expanded party?

Temotei
2009-11-13, 06:24 PM
I think I just figured out what the MitD is.:smallamused:

Makes me think of The Penguin from Batman. :smallbiggrin: Even the umbrella!

Honestly. Needing ten thousand deities to kill one thing is ridiculous. Also, I'd like to see your build. At 175, you could have eight full classes, and one with fifteen levels. :smalleek:

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-13, 06:51 PM
Any way as I would maintain the position of the party leader, how should I manage my (soon to be) newly expanded party?Call dibs?

Volkov
2009-11-13, 07:11 PM
Makes me think of The Penguin from Batman. :smallbiggrin: Even the umbrella!

Honestly. Needing ten thousand deities to kill one thing is ridiculous. Also, I'd like to see your build. At 175, you could have eight full classes, and one with fifteen levels. :smalleek:
We needed them to smite it dead with fire. Any magic we tried was counter spelled to the nine hells and back.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-13, 08:25 PM
We needed them to smite it dead with fire. Any magic we tried was counter spelled to the nine hells and back.It might be immune to epic magic, but YOU aren't.

Like I said, research an epic spell (with tons of mitigating factors) that grants the target +100,000 to every stat for 24h. One full-attack routine and it's gone.

Starbuck_II
2009-11-13, 08:28 PM
Would it be cheesy to blow it up with Explosive Runes?
It isn't immune to Force and there is no save to Explosive runes if done right.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-13, 08:28 PM
Would it be cheesy to blow it up with Explosive Runes?
It isn't immune to Force and there is no save to Explosive runes if done right.And 11 levels in factotum means no SR.

Volkov
2009-11-13, 08:38 PM
Would it be cheesy to blow it up with Explosive Runes?
It isn't immune to Force and there is no save to Explosive runes if done right.

It slapped us with disjunction. Any epic magic we tried was slapped down with epic dispelling. Hopefully with four spell casters we can defeat it's counter spelling and epic dispelling with brute force.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-13, 08:54 PM
Rings of counterspelling.

Might also be useful to have a tower shield or two around.

Also, you might consider archmage + spell-like abilities + Supernatural Transformation. Su's can't be counterspelled.

Volkov
2009-11-13, 09:09 PM
Rings of counterspelling.

Might also be useful to have a tower shield or two around.

Also, you might consider archmage + spell-like abilities + Supernatural Transformation. Su's can't be counterspelled.

Can they be defeated by it's innate spell casting powers? Or do we actually possess a chance. Also, how should a spell weaver's power to cast multiple spells at once be readjusted once it can cast spells of a greater level than 6?

Flickerdart
2009-11-13, 09:49 PM
Hike up your caster level with some loops and summon a Mortiverse (http://s6.invisionfree.com/PCBTerror/index.php?showtopic=1821). This thing is utterly pathetic next to it.

Volkov
2009-11-13, 09:52 PM
Hike up your caster level with some loops and summon a Mortiverse (http://s6.invisionfree.com/PCBTerror/index.php?showtopic=1821). This thing is utterly pathetic next to it.

Until it throws epic magic at it. Also, it wasn't the mightiest creature. The mightiest one we faced was a Killer Leopard Seal, who can kill a killer penguin as easily as a normal leopard seal can kill a normal rockhopper penguin. The Killer leopard seal is so ridiculously powerful that it'd probably eat mortiverse for breakfast. Seriously, we're talking HD in the dectillions.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-13, 10:29 PM
Until it throws epic magic at it. Also, it wasn't the mightiest creature. The mightiest one we faced was a Killer Leopard Seal, who can kill a killer penguin as easily as a normal leopard seal can kill a normal rockhopper penguin. The Killer leopard seal is so ridiculously powerful that it'd probably eat mortiverse for breakfast. Seriously, we're talking HD in the dectillions.Then gate one in and run.

Volkov
2009-11-13, 10:40 PM
Then gate one in and run.

Huh.....that never crossed our minds back then. Must be because that was a bit before going on the internet for tips was done much by us.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-13, 10:41 PM
Also, an ubercharger, properly built, could probably one-shot the thing.

Volkov
2009-11-13, 10:42 PM
Also, an ubercharger, properly built, could probably one-shot the thing.

Even if it has magic?

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-13, 10:46 PM
Even if it has magic?You have magic too. That's where the 'properly built' thing comes in.

Volkov
2009-11-13, 10:49 PM
You have magic too. That's where the 'properly built' thing comes in.

Explain this "ubercharger."

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-13, 11:11 PM
Explain this "ubercharger."Start off with a nice mount; one with a ton of attacks and the ability to pounce.

You start with Power Attack, Shock Trooper, Leap Attack, Mounted Combat, Spirited Charge, Combat Brute, and the other feats you can find that'll multiply Power Attack damage. Take levels in barbarian (for rage and pounce), frenzied berzerker, cavalier, and ronin. Get your Str as high as you can manage.

Get at least 4 arms; preferably more (via girallon arms, grafts, shapechange, etc), and dual-wield two-handed lances. Also, dancing lance. Animated shield (for kicks). Add on manyfanged, collision, and as many other static damage bonuses as you can (ie, +5, not +1d6). Haste and similar means to get as many attacks as possible. Braidblades. Natural attacks.

You can do pouncing charges and move both before and after, setting yourself up for a charge next round.

Done correctly, you should be able to get x100 or more multipliers on each attack on a charge.

I'm sure others have more suggestions for bonus damage and additional multipliers to get that high.

Also, Google is your friend (http://www.google.com/search?q=3.5+ubercharger&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a).

sofawall
2009-11-13, 11:13 PM
The record for one round uber-charge damage is so high it actually hasn't been calculated yet, as you would need something like a supercomputer to calculate it in someone's lifetime.

PhoenixRivers
2009-11-13, 11:25 PM
Custom item: Mirror of Opposition, that puts the copy under your control.

From there, have it Simulacrum repeatedly to Create copies of itself. Co-opt the DM at his own game.

PhoenixRivers
2009-11-14, 12:26 AM
Other ways: It may be immune to epic spells. That doesn't mean epic spells can't help you.

Make an Epic Magic Voltron. Buffs that render you to be a powerhouse, on par with it. Use gaterape and solar simulacrum shuffling to mitigate penalties.

There are ways to render yourself virtually immune to any form of damage.

From there, sphere of Annihilation, or dozens of portable holes and bags of holding, and wait for it to roll a 1.

2009-11-14, 12:36 AM
Use your treasure from being level 175 to craft a Ring of Unlimited Limited Wishes (check the Craft Rules, I had a friend do it with only 40 Levels worth of XP and treasure). Use the ring to get enough treasure to craft a Ring of Unlimited Wishes. Use the new ring to get a Ring of Unlimited Epic Wishes, which can be used to do literally anything any epic spell can do. Before the fight, use Wish to give yourself arbitrarily high stats. Hit the Penguin in the face. Wish to go first. Wish to give yourself an arbitrary number of actions per round. Wish for the laws of physics to no longer be in effect so that the Penguin no longer benefits from Relativity in order to be immune to Time Stop. Time Stop. Put up enough Metamagiced Delayed Blast Fireballs so that if the Penguin only fails on a natural 1, and gets to reroll all saves 10 times, and the damage only comes up straight 1s, he dies 100 times over. Wish to go back in time to before the Killer Penguin existed. I'd say kill his mother, but it's likely that she's even tougher than his, so go far enough back in time to find an evolutionary ancestor that has the defensive capabilities of a 16 year old blind and toothless shi-tzu. Remove the Killer Penguin from history.

If counterspelling is a problem, use your Epic Wishes to counterspell his counterspell.

Wish that he fails his next save. Make up a spell that removes spell casting abilities. Remove the Penguin's abilities to cast spells, including counterspell.

Summon a small pool of water. Wish that he fails his next save. Cast an illusion that makes him think that air is water and water is air, and watch him drown in a puddle. If he has water breathing, substitute a packet of airless void.

Put an immovable rod in the middle of an adamantine wheel. Put exactly half the wheel in an area of antigravity. The wheel continuously falls until it achieves the maximum velocity allowed by friction, which is adjustable thanks to your Ring of Unlimited Epic Wishes. Attach an adamantine hook and chain to the wheel and use it to hurl rocks. The rocks will turn to bolts of plasma before striking the critter. Don't forget to wish to hit before firing the thing.

Wish to be the DM. Rule that the artist has a heart attack so that the terrible monster is no more and the party escapes.

How did you beat the Penguin Eater? Why won't that work against the Penguin?

Inhuman Bot
2009-11-14, 12:44 AM
Until it throws epic magic at it. Also, it wasn't the mightiest creature. The mightiest one we faced was a Killer Leopard Seal, who can kill a killer penguin as easily as a normal leopard seal can kill a normal rockhopper penguin. The Killer leopard seal is so ridiculously powerful that it'd probably eat mortiverse for breakfast. Seriously, we're talking HD in the dectillions.

Look for a killer polar bear.

Or better yet, find a Killer Human. Get the Killer Human to kill the Killer Penguin. Problem solved.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-14, 12:53 AM
Look for a killer polar bear.

Or better yet, find a Killer Human. Get the Killer Human to kill the Killer Penguin. Problem solved.Two words:

Killer Gnome.

Adumbration
2009-11-14, 05:32 AM
I think I've come up with a new way of arbitrarily increasing your character level above the HD of the killer penguin, as well as gaining more abilities than you could possibly imagine. It merely relies on a large amount of accessible 'cattle', as in, people to feed on. And no, it doesn't use a vampire.

Start with an illithid. You go about your illithid life, as any other mind flayer, eating brains, having fun, scheming against your friends, you know the drill. But as you do so, you acquire an abnormal interest in arcane. You take 9 ranks in Knowledge (Arcane).

Then you manage to slay something powerful, say a young adult black dragon. You devour it's brain. Ta-dah! The next time you gain a level, you take a level in Illithid Savant. Here begins your path to ULTIMATE POWER! You slay and devour many, many more creatures and brains, gaining knowledge and class features and experience.

Then you enter the 5th level of illithid savant. You have a clear goal in mind. You use your newfound powers and knowledge to scry and kill a barghest. As you devour it's brain - an irony of ironies - you become aware that you have another option available to you.

Now you do not devour brains alone, you feed on entire corpses of the ones you've slain, gaining hitdice while at it. Now you may move away from feeding on powerful creatures, for even the lowly peasants can provide you with moar dakka. You take your pick from the higher level entities for additional class features and powers.

You come across a curious object. It's a bottle, made out of green glass, capable of storing your memories and experience. You do just so, and seek the services of a level-draining creature. You allow it to drain your levels - or, rather, your newfound hitdice - and then retrieve the experience from the bottle, but rather than acquiring hitdice again, you take more character levels.

You proceed on this path until you are powerful to take on gods, gaining divine salient capabilities.

Then you take on the killer penguin.

EDIT: And that, children, is how the illithids will come to rule the world. Or an illithid, rather. No competition allowed.

Volkov
2009-11-14, 11:13 AM
I think I've come up with a new way of arbitrarily increasing your character level above the HD of the killer penguin, as well as gaining more abilities than you could possibly imagine. It merely relies on a large amount of accessible 'cattle', as in, people to feed on. And no, it doesn't use a vampire.

Start with an illithid. You go about your illithid life, as any other mind flayer, eating brains, having fun, scheming against your friends, you know the drill. But as you do so, you acquire an abnormal interest in arcane. You take 9 ranks in Knowledge (Arcane).

Then you manage to slay something powerful, say a young adult black dragon. You devour it's brain. Ta-dah! The next time you gain a level, you take a level in Illithid Savant. Here begins your path to ULTIMATE POWER! You slay and devour many, many more creatures and brains, gaining knowledge and class features and experience.

Then you enter the 5th level of illithid savant. You have a clear goal in mind. You use your newfound powers and knowledge to scry and kill a barghest. As you devour it's brain - an irony of ironies - you become aware that you have another option available to you.

Now you do not devour brains alone, you feed on entire corpses of the ones you've slain, gaining hitdice while at it. Now you may move away from feeding on powerful creatures, for even the lowly peasants can provide you with moar dakka. You take your pick from the higher level entities for additional class features and powers.

You come across a curious object. It's a bottle, made out of green glass, capable of storing your memories and experience. You do just so, and seek the services of a level-draining creature. You allow it to drain your levels - or, rather, your newfound hitdice - and then retrieve the experience from the bottle, but rather than acquiring hitdice again, you take more character levels.

You proceed on this path until you are powerful to take on gods, gaining divine salient capabilities.

Then you take on the killer penguin.

EDIT: And that, children, is how the illithids will come to rule the world. Or an illithid, rather. No competition allowed.
Are Ultralithids allowed to take that class? They are the "Special" mind flayers.

Adumbration
2009-11-14, 11:36 AM
Are Ultralithids allowed to take that class? They are the "Special" mind flayers.

Well, the requirement in Savage Species merely states the race requirement as Mind Flayer, so I would suppose it is allowed. You could consult your DM about it.

crazedloon
2009-11-14, 03:09 PM
well I have an alternative which requires only a little "optimization"

the build is duskblade 13/telflammar shadowloard 4 the rest is up to you (really you just need umd but grab 20 levels of casting classes negate that need)

1.now umd or cast teleport to appear next to the thing you get a full attack
2.as part of that action channel dimension. This allows you to attack yourself 1 time during the full attack action which you can teleport yourself triggering another full attack
3. which allows you to channel another spell this time vampiric touch full attack and 1 time hit yourself (you still are channeling d-hop ).
4.Rinse and repeat you can do this an arbitrary number of times which means you will get an arbitrary high number of 20s (which auto hit)

the vampiric touch allow you to not kill yourself with this cycle

wielding a +x dread weapon (keyed to magical beast) the thing will fail its save one a 1 (after you roll a 20 followed by a 20 which will happen) and thus die

the nice thing about this attack is its all in the surprise round and there is no initiative roll as the attack happens as you appear not after an initiative roll

jseah
2009-11-14, 03:21 PM
I can improve that.

Before the teleport, cast Surge of Fortune (cleric 4 or 5, from C.Champ) for an auto-20.

If it needs a head to live, a vorpal weapon insta-gibs it.


Magic Weapons and Critical Hits
Some weapon qualities and some specific weapons have an extra effect on a critical hit. This special effect functions against creatures not subject to critical hits, such as undead, elementals, and constructs. When fighting against such creatures, roll for critical hits as you would against humanoids or any other creature subject to critical hits. On a successful critical roll, apply the special effect, but do not multiply the weapon’s regular damage.

Eldritch_Ent
2009-11-14, 03:23 PM
Yeah. This enemy really seems unfun in the same way mobs like "The mortiverse" are unfun. It's just the DM wanting to go on a power trip.

crazedloon
2009-11-14, 03:36 PM
I can improve that.

Before the teleport, cast Surge of Fortune (cleric 4 or 5, from C.Champ) for an auto-20.

If it needs a head to live, a vorpal weapon insta-gibs it.

true i had forgot about a simple vorpal weapon :smallconfused:

jseah
2009-11-14, 03:46 PM
Oh, but teleport needs working on. You need something that isn't a Teleport, since Anticipate Teleport (a spell) will screw you over if you try that.

sofawall
2009-11-14, 03:52 PM
well I have an alternative which requires only a little "optimization"

the build is duskblade 13/telflammar shadowloard 4 the rest is up to you (really you just need umd but grab 20 levels of casting classes negate that need)

1.now umd or cast teleport to appear next to the thing you get a full attack
2.as part of that action channel dimension. This allows you to attack yourself 1 time during the full attack action which you can teleport yourself triggering another full attack
3. which allows you to channel another spell this time vampiric touch full attack and 1 time hit yourself (you still are channeling d-hop ).
4.Rinse and repeat you can do this an arbitrary number of times which means you will get an arbitrary high number of 20s (which auto hit)

the vampiric touch allow you to not kill yourself with this cycle

wielding a +x dread weapon (keyed to magical beast) the thing will fail its save one a 1 (after you roll a 20 followed by a 20 which will happen) and thus die

the nice thing about this attack is its all in the surprise round and there is no initiative roll as the attack happens as you appear not after an initiative roll

You hit one in 20 times, so you land a... Wait. How are you beating the SR?

crazedloon
2009-11-14, 03:56 PM
You hit one in 20 times, so you land a... Wait. How are you beating the SR?

you don't have to you don't care if he is immune to your d hop the hopping is to allow you to keep jumping and the vampiric touch is to allow you to eat your own hp the first time but than eat the bonus hp each jump

as for the anticipate teleport disjunction may help with that

sofawall
2009-11-14, 03:59 PM
you don't have to you don't care if he is immune to your d hop the hopping is to allow you to keep jumping and the vampiric touch is to allow you to eat your own hp the first time but than eat the bonus hp each jump

But your weapon damage will kill you over time.

Volkov
2009-11-14, 04:01 PM
you don't have to you don't care if he is immune to your d hop the hopping is to allow you to keep jumping and the vampiric touch is to allow you to eat your own hp the first time but than eat the bonus hp each jump

as for the anticipate teleport disjunction may help with that

And if it slaps you with epic magic?

crazedloon
2009-11-14, 04:03 PM
But your weapon damage will kill you over time.

well if you read the rules to the t (i.e. RaW) you gain the hp equal to the damage you deal (does not say only with the spell) but if that is still a problem use a merciful weapon and cast any number of the spells which make you immune to non-lethal and vampiric is not needed

also the reason I originally did not use vorpal was because it can cut of your own head which is rather sad :smallwink:

crazedloon
2009-11-14, 04:04 PM
And if it slaps you with epic magic?

celerity and start your tping again (his only response is an immediate action) and its a game of who uses their immigrate action first

Volkov
2009-11-14, 04:10 PM
celerity and start your tping again (his only response is an immediate action) and its a game of who uses their immigrate action first

Well he would always go first, so you had better hope your level 17 character can withstand a full attack. Which is what the penguin did to all of our followers. He butchered them as if they were nothing.

crazedloon
2009-11-14, 04:23 PM
Well he would always go first, so you had better hope your level 17 character can withstand a full attack. Which is what the penguin did to all of our followers. He butchered them as if they were nothing.

well there was the assumption you had the rest of the 175 levels :smalltongue:

also there would be no initiative check as this all happens during the "surprise round" which only those not surprised can act during

also the best solution to the anticipate tp problem is tp to the edge of the effected area. prior to the full attack (or in the middle) 5 foot step into the effected area quick cast disjunction than stab yourself (you are channeling d hop) and hop your way to the big guy and finish the attack action. if he uses his immediate action you can respond with yours and still win.

Volkov
2009-11-14, 04:26 PM
well there was the assumption you had the rest of the 175 levels :smalltongue:

also there would be no initiative check as this all happens during the "surprise round" which only those not surprised can act during

also the best solution to the anticipate tp problem is tp to the edge of the effected area. prior to the full attack (or in the middle) 5 foot step into the effected area quick cast disjunction than stab yourself (you are channeling d hop) and hop your way to the big guy and finish the attack action. if he uses his immediate action you can respond with yours and still win.

Tell me how do you intend to get by blind sight, blind sense, tremor sense, keen scent, and an ungodly spot and listen modifier.

crazedloon
2009-11-14, 04:30 PM
Tell me how do you intend to get by blind sight, blind sense, tremor sense, keen scent, and an ungodly spot and listen modifier.

being on the other side of the world .... that is why you use teleport (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/teleport.htm) (which starts and triggers the cycle) which has a range of 100 miles/level lets say you use 20 of your 175 levels to be a wizard that is 2000 miles away..... feel free to add more levels of wizard to increase that range but that is well beyond those senses thus they are no help

sofawall
2009-11-14, 04:42 PM
well if you read the rules to the t (i.e. RaW) you gain the hp equal to the damage you deal (does not say only with the spell) but if that is still a problem use a merciful weapon and cast any number of the spells which make you immune to non-lethal and vampiric is not needed

also the reason I originally did not use vorpal was because it can cut of your own head which is rather sad :smallwink:

That is not RAW. That is misinterpreting, maybe even RAIITAYCPMWN. You do damage with the spell, and you do damage with your weapon. They are different, and resolve differently.

Or are you saying casting Disintegrate will make you gain 2d6/cl temp HP, as it never says you actually even need to use the spell?

Also, teleport has a chance of going off-target.

ocdscale
2009-11-14, 04:42 PM
Gate in a "Penguin Killer" which coincidentally has similar immunities as this Killer Penguin, but is over one centillion times stronger.

Or does your DM frown on such arbitrariness?

Volkov
2009-11-14, 04:55 PM
Gate in a "Penguin Killer" which coincidentally has similar immunities as this Killer Penguin, but is over one centillion times stronger.

Or does your DM frown on such arbitrariness?

His rule on that is that if it's too strong, the monster turns on you automatically.

crazedloon
2009-11-14, 05:05 PM
That is not RAW. That is misinterpreting, maybe even RAIITAYCPMWN. You do damage with the spell, and you do damage with your weapon. They are different, and resolve differently.

Or are you saying casting Disintegrate will make you gain 2d6/cl temp HP, as it never says you actually even need to use the spell?

Also, teleport has a chance of going off-target.

I don't even know what that acronym means thus defeating the purpose for using it. But on further reading of the exact way that the channeling works you seem to be right. As such simply use a merciful weapon and gain immunity to nonlethal damage.

also there are plenty of ways to reduce and even eliminate that chance to go off target.

Bayar
2009-11-14, 05:08 PM
Well, at level 175 your party should have had knowledge of how to build a Spelljammer (or enough money to buy one).

Jump on the spaceship, leave the killer penguin behind, go explore the planet of the tarrasques.

Glimbur
2009-11-14, 05:11 PM
Well he would always go first, so you had better hope your level 17 character can withstand a full attack. Which is what the penguin did to all of our followers. He butchered them as if they were nothing.

Just Shapechange into a Dire Tortoise from Sandstorm. The Dire Tortoise always acts in the surprise round. If there is no surprise round, there is now and only the Dire Tortoise acts in it. How to wield a sword and Dimension Hop and all that while in tortoise form is left as an exercise for the reader.

Volkov
2009-11-14, 05:11 PM
Well, at level 175 your party should have had knowledge of how to build a Spelljammer (or enough money to buy one).

Jump on the spaceship, leave the killer penguin behind, go explore the planet of the tarrasques.

Knowing my DM, it'd use epic magic to build it's own and follow.

Tyndmyr
2009-11-14, 05:15 PM
Knowing my DM, it'd use epic magic to build it's own and follow.

Point out that it's immune to epic magic.

Seriously, if he's going to try railroading, the game of "how wildly can we go off the tracks" is always fun.

Flickerdart
2009-11-14, 05:23 PM
Knowing my DM, it'd use epic magic to build it's own and follow.
Why? If it was only focused on killing you, you'd be dead by now. Assuming that your survival has been because of its disinterest or your superior stealth, I don't see why you couldn't Spelljammer out of there.

Bayar
2009-11-14, 05:24 PM
Knowing my DM, it'd use epic magic to build it's own and follow.

Well then, you should try reading this thread and figuring out what to use to kill it. it probably is not immune to solar system implosions.

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872670/Broken_Super_Symmetry_in_an_Advanced_Theoretic_Gen eral_Relativistic_Interpretation_of?num=10&pg=10

(hope it loads for you...)

And the killer penguin would follow you..why ? What is his motive to seek out and kill you out of the countless masses of sentient beings ?

Akisa
2009-11-14, 05:34 PM
Since it's immune to teleport magic, use epic magic to merge two planes and then unmerge the plane with the "penguin" in other plane. Works best when you create a featureless plane, then when you unmerge you transfer all material to the featureless plane leaving the penguin trapped in the now materialess plane.

Also since it's a new plane then he can't simply phase shift back because he lacks a tuning fork.

Volkov
2009-11-14, 06:18 PM
Well then, you should try reading this thread and figuring out what to use to kill it. it probably is not immune to solar system implosions.

http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19872670/Broken_Super_Symmetry_in_an_Advanced_Theoretic_Gen eral_Relativistic_Interpretation_of?num=10&pg=10

(hope it loads for you...)

And the killer penguin would follow you..why ? What is his motive to seek out and kill you out of the countless masses of sentient beings ?
It's monologue before the fight was "If I cannot feel happiness, then you should be denied it, If I am zero, and I cannot exist, then you should not exist. You slain me before, and now you shall pay for it." After we killed it, we found it was a simple rockhoppper penguin that we accidentally killed at the beginning of our quest that was reincarnated after a hundred more deaths all at our hands as a Killer Rockhopper penguin by the far realm out for revenge. Think of it like Argajag but much deadlier.

Milskidasith
2009-11-14, 06:23 PM
It's monologue before the fight was "If I cannot feel happiness, then you should be denied it, If I am zero, and I cannot exist, then you should not exist. You slain me before, and now you shall pay for it." After we killed it, we found it was a simple rockhoppper penguin that we accidentally killed at the beginning of our quest that was reincarnated after a hundred more deaths all at our hands as a Killer Rockhopper penguin by the far realm out for revenge. Think of it like Argajag but much deadlier.

And powered by DM Fiat.

Volkov
2009-11-14, 06:24 PM
And powered by DM Fiat.

Not so much a fiat of anger as it was one final joke.

taltamir
2009-11-14, 06:40 PM
ice assassin to make 5 perfect clones of it (with all its powers, it even clones divinity) and have them fight it...

heck, just ice assassin on a god of divinity 21, make it make you a god of that divinity.

Polymorph into a female killer penguin and seduce it, you will "mother" a race of unstopable beings, raise them to hate their father and one day kill him.

Tyndmyr
2009-11-14, 08:12 PM
It's monologue before the fight was "If I cannot feel happiness, then you should be denied it, If I am zero, and I cannot exist, then you should not exist. You slain me before, and now you shall pay for it." After we killed it, we found it was a simple rockhoppper penguin that we accidentally killed at the beginning of our quest that was reincarnated after a hundred more deaths all at our hands as a Killer Rockhopper penguin by the far realm out for revenge. Think of it like Argajag but much deadlier.

That's the worst explanation for an overpowered creature I've ever heard. Reincarnation doesn't do that. Or anything vaguely like that.

So...what would make a penguin happy? Piles of fish? Sexy female penguin of equal size? These are very doable, and much funnier than actually fighting a penguin.

The whole "I cannot exist" bit of the speech is also pretty retarded. I mean, if he didn't exist, there'd be no speech, and no problem.

Volkov
2009-11-14, 09:21 PM
That's the worst explanation for an overpowered creature I've ever heard. Reincarnation doesn't do that. Or anything vaguely like that.

So...what would make a penguin happy? Piles of fish? Sexy female penguin of equal size? These are very doable, and much funnier than actually fighting a penguin.

The whole "I cannot exist" bit of the speech is also pretty retarded. I mean, if he didn't exist, there'd be no speech, and no problem.

He was ripping off a poem about Kirby 64's Zero two boss and the hitchhiker's guide to the galaxy. In our campaign setting, one out of three beings reincarnate instead of getting an after-life.

Flickerdart
2009-11-14, 09:42 PM
Say, could you not have lured it to Sigil? The Lady of Pain would probably like to have a word with it. The hard way. I mean, it probably counts as a god, and the Lady doesn't like gods very much. And things the Lady doesn't like, die.

Volkov
2009-11-14, 10:12 PM
Say, could you not have lured it to Sigil? The Lady of Pain would probably like to have a word with it. The hard way. I mean, it probably counts as a god, and the Lady doesn't like gods very much. And things the Lady doesn't like, die.

Sigil was attacked by killer rabbits mid-way through the game. There were no survivors.

Tyndmyr
2009-11-14, 10:45 PM
Sigil was attacked by killer rabbits mid-way through the game. There were no survivors.

And you're still looking for a "fair fight". Good luck.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-14, 10:48 PM
Really, your DM will probably disallow most all of this stuff as "cheese". The only way for you to kill it is to let the gods do it, since you can't win if the DM clearly doesn't want you to.

RAW, there are plenty of ways. But Rule 0 says none of them will work.

Dilb
2009-11-15, 06:23 AM
It's monologue before the fight was "If I cannot feel happiness, then you should be denied it, If I am zero, and I cannot exist, then you should not exist. You slain me before, and now you shall pay for it." After we killed it, we found it was a simple rockhoppper penguin that we accidentally killed at the beginning of our quest that was reincarnated after a hundred more deaths all at our hands as a Killer Rockhopper penguin by the far realm out for revenge. Think of it like Argajag but much deadlier.

It has 310 int, wis, and cha, but it's mopey and reciting bad poetry? Clearly it's a surely teenager, find it a girlfriend (one who can appreciate "the darkness in his soul") and it will cheer right up.

For a species that itself kills and eats other animals, he's remarkably whiny about death. Get the far realms to create a few hundred killer squid from all the crustaceans that he ate during his life.

Volkov
2009-11-15, 10:44 AM
Really, your DM will probably disallow most all of this stuff as "cheese". The only way for you to kill it is to let the gods do it, since you can't win if the DM clearly doesn't want you to.

RAW, there are plenty of ways. But Rule 0 says none of them will work.

He's lowering his standards for this fight. Any way, how would a spell weaver work once it can cast spells that have more levels than it has arms.

Bayar
2009-11-15, 11:35 AM
It has 310 int, wis, and cha, but it's mopey and reciting bad poetry? Clearly it's a surely teenager, find it a girlfriend (one who can appreciate "the darkness in his soul") and it will cheer right up.

For a species that itself kills and eats other animals, he's remarkably whiny about death. Get the far realms to create a few hundred killer squid from all the crustaceans that he ate during his life.

Wait. That's it ! Call Drizzt and tell him to challenge the killer penguin to a poetry face-off.

Closak
2009-11-15, 11:46 AM
Did you try introducing it to this guy? (http://d20npcs.wikia.com/wiki/Death,_CR_373)


Ouchies.

Volkov
2009-11-15, 01:00 PM
The killer penguin does possess more hit points and hit dice, so that's a definite advantage. But death has god powers. Hmm.

tyckspoon
2009-11-15, 01:52 PM
The killer penguin does possess more hit points and hit dice, so that's a definite advantage. But death has god powers. Hmm.

Death wins. The 'cosmic' rules being used to generate those creatures cannot be competed with without building another cosmic creature- they're like Epic^4th. Of particular note is that this particular statting cannot be hit unless you have a particular trait, which you will naturally need access to the cosmic rules to use. It also automatically hits unless it rolls a 1, and can inflict unresistable negative levels with each shot. Killer Penguin goes down in.. about 4 rounds.

Sholos
2009-11-15, 02:05 PM
Did you try introducing it to this guy? (http://d20npcs.wikia.com/wiki/Death,_CR_373)


Ouchies.

I find that to be a very poor statting of a "Death" entity. Neutral alignment, but is friends/allies with all the evil gods, a fan of undeath, and enemies of the good gods? It's goal is to slaughter every living thing?

The rest of the stuff just seems weirdly arbitrary.

chiasaur11
2009-11-15, 03:00 PM
Did you try introducing it to this guy? (http://d20npcs.wikia.com/wiki/Death,_CR_373)


Ouchies.

That's Death?

Pale imitator.

Real deal cares about the harvest.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-15, 03:07 PM
He's lowering his standards for this fight. Any way, how would a spell weaver work once it can cast spells that have more levels than it has arms.Get some grafts. Girallon arms. Hecatoncheires. Simulacrums of himself. Become an illithid savant and find ways to get more actions (white raven tactics!).

Volkov
2009-11-15, 03:59 PM
Get some grafts. Girallon arms. Hecatoncheires. Simulacrums of himself. Become an illithid savant and find ways to get more actions (white raven tactics!).

I'll ask the Ultralithid psion if he's ok with becoming an Ilithid savant. Also, I need to ask, how do Spell-weavers cast spells with a higher level than sixth? Since their spell casting power seems to be tied to their number of arms. This question is more an object of curiosity than anything else.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-15, 04:26 PM
I'll ask the Ultralithid psion if he's ok with becoming an Ilithid savant. Also, I need to ask, how do Spell-weavers cast spells with a higher level than sixth? Since their spell casting power seems to be tied to their number of arms. This question is more an object of curiosity than anything else.Find ways to get more arms. Like I said, get grafts. Soulmelds. Epic polymorph into hecatoncheires. Pop off a fusion or two with some multilimbed monstrosities. Find things with tons of limbs (like hydras) and get gloves of man from Savage Species.

Bayar
2009-11-15, 04:30 PM
Find ways to get more arms. Like I said, get grafts. Soulmelds. Epic polymorph into hecatoncheires. Pop off a fusion or two with some multilimbed monstrosities. Find things with tons of limbs (like hydras) and get gloves of man from Savage Species.

Something like this ?

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=146.0

The image of this monster, before it got even more ridiculous:
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd54/Prime32_temp/Other/lizoctataur.png

Yeah, alot of tentacles.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-15, 04:43 PM
Something like this ?

http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=146.0

The image of this monster, before it got even more ridiculous:
http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd54/Prime32_temp/Other/lizoctataur.png

Yeah, alot of tentacles.I managed to up the total quite a lot there in the end. :smallsmile:

Volkov
2009-11-15, 04:48 PM
So I should get the spell weaver to get a lot of arms and let him smash the penguin with magic until it dies with his superior amount of spells per round?

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-15, 04:59 PM
So I should get the spell weaver to get a lot of arms and let him smash the penguin with magic until it dies with his superior amount of spells per round?The correct spells, sure. Of course, you could also get beholder mage, or illithid savant, or just cast lesser planar binding. :smalltongue:

A gated in beholder queen would knock out all of its sub-epic magic, and it's immune to epic spells. Make an epic version of antimagic field that blocks out ALL magic (except for yours), and beat it to death with your arcane awesomeness.

Volkov
2009-11-15, 05:03 PM
The correct spells, sure. Of course, you could also get beholder mage, or illithid savant, or just cast lesser planar binding. :smalltongue:

A gated in beholder queen would knock out all of its sub-epic magic, and it's immune to epic spells. Make an epic version of antimagic field that blocks out ALL magic (except for yours), and beat it to death with your arcane awesomeness.

Sounds like a plan.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-15, 05:10 PM
You're generally better off using cleverness than brute force. Showing your DM that a level 11 wizard can destroy a world-devouring monstrosity using nothing but a single core spell and tactics a real Int 20+ person would invent would give you more than enough reason to laugh at him.

Of course, I wouldn't expect to live long in your next campaign, but...

Tyndmyr
2009-11-15, 08:50 PM
He's lowering his standards for this fight. Any way, how would a spell weaver work once it can cast spells that have more levels than it has arms.

I feel safe in saying that standards lower than his would apparently be so low as to actually be negative.

Volkov
2009-11-16, 07:26 PM
I feel safe in saying that standards lower than his would apparently be so low as to actually be negative.

Tis was a double standard. :P

Volkov
2009-11-16, 09:09 PM
Really, the only thing comparable to that campaign in difficulty was Super Kaizo Mario world. The most sadistic anything for any video game, ever.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-30, 07:50 PM
So how's that baby seal- penguin-bashing coming along?

ex cathedra
2009-11-30, 07:55 PM
Is there anything stopping a cleric/crusader from using imbued luck:healing and aura of chaos for a 1-hit kill and casting surge of fortune for a hit?

erikun
2009-11-30, 08:13 PM
Find a way to modify Telekinesis (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/telekinesis.htm) with SR: No, get your INT up to 300+. Cast Quickened Gate behind it to a null magic dimension, then TK-shove the penguin through. Close the Gate.

Go do the same on the Tarrasque, then sell tickets to the match.

Inhuman Bot
2009-12-01, 01:26 AM
Find a way to modify Telekinesis (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/telekinesis.htm) with SR: No, get your INT up to 300+. Cast Quickened Gate behind it to a null magic dimension, then TK-shove the penguin through. Close the Gate.

Go do the same on the Tarrasque, then sell tickets to the match.

Match? I wouldn't call a killer penguin destroying the Tarrasque, the spectators, the planet, the universe, all of creation, and everything except a troll a match.

Why a troll? Because it's regenerating 5 hitpoints.

"And there's nothing you can do." >.>
*is holding a referance cookie*

dspeyer
2009-12-01, 01:31 AM
Immune to Epic magic: All epic level spells are useless against it, whether they are used directly or indirectly.

This is the power that tells you the fight cannot be taken seriously. Immunity to *indirect* epic magic.

Go back in time and create the multiverse with an epic spell. Point out that its existence could only be the indirect result of the spell, and therefore it doesn't exist.

KellKheraptis
2009-12-01, 05:50 AM
Two words : Wire hanger. Retroactively abort that misbegotten bird.

Volkov
2009-12-11, 10:56 PM
I'd like to report that we won. The kobold teleported a thermonuclear device he stole from a futuristic reality into it's gut, and now all that's left of it is a black stain on the floor. The funny thing is, the DM just shook our hands and congratulated us on our cleverness. It's funny how time changes people.

LOTRfan
2009-12-12, 09:14 PM
You could probably homebrew The Colt from Supernatural. Apparently, it's able to destroy anything with a single shot (except for four creatures, of which three aren't specified). If the DM creates it, he/she could probably convert it into a hand crossbow and a major artifact. It would be very over powered, though, so putting a limit to bolts designed for the weapon would be necessary (If it were up to me, I'd go with only one bullet in existence).

The only problem I see with this plan is the armor class. If your DM does allow you to use this approach, you better pray for a natural 20 or your doomed.

On second thought, you also might want to pray that this Killer Penguin isn't one of the three unspecified creatures that it can't kill.

EDIT: Oh, should've read last post. never mind congrats for the victory, though.