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Thajocoth
2009-11-11, 01:29 AM
I'm running a campaign, and the PCs are currently questing inside a comatose primordial (they don't know that yet). If they heal her and successfully diplomacise her into friendship (probable with this group), then I want to have her give the party boons.

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Looking at parcels, The next five items I should be giving the party are levels 9, 11, 10, 12 and 11. There are no level 10, 11 or 12 boons. I'm ok with adding the gp difference of a lower-level boon to later loot to make up for it or vice-versa.

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I also want the boons to be useful to the players, while thematically fitting the primordial.

The primordial's last memory is of battling the gods back when the primordials and gods fought over the planet shortly after it was created. Syrazi is her name. For many years, everyone believed her to be a mountain range. Her left half is embedded in the ground, and she'll still be stuck if the players revive her. She also only speaks primordial and supernal.

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The players receiving these boons:

Half-Elf Valorous Bard with insane Diplomacy. He never deals lethal damage and prefers to talk his way through situations. He's got a Songblade, but prefers ranged implement attacks.

Tiefling Assault Swordmage. He's an atheist and generally out for himself, but refuses to work with undead.

Minotaur Rageblood Barbarian. He's driven by two things: Heavy drinking, and hitting things with his axe. There are limits on what he'll hit with his axe though. He charges a lot. He's also got horns on his horns so he can charge while he charges. (Horned Helm.)

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I would obviously be refluffing whatever boons I use, since they're coming from a primordial, not a god.

Also, there's a chance that the Barbarian won't be there to get a boon. He missed last session and may miss the next, which would be the entirety of this dungeon. I haven't decided how exactly I'll handle keeping him close to the other players gear-wise, as he has less money and no boon in this scenario. The other players get inherent bonuses and re-make their characters in full whenever they play instead of getting loot, but of these 5 other players, there will be one of them about once per month.

So, to deal with usually having a 3-person party, they each have a sub-character that I made who's a level lower than them that only plays if there are less than 4 people.



Any suggestions for what boons to refluff?

FoE
2009-11-11, 01:43 AM
The gods will not be pleased with waking up an ancient primordial who opposed them in the war. Your actions could have ramifications for the entire world.

But enough about that. What kind of primordial was Syrazi? Most of them wore some kind of hat, be they a giant worm that summons storms or a huge snake-skinned woman or a being of stone with two heads.

Thajocoth
2009-11-11, 02:02 AM
The gods will not be pleased with waking up an ancient primordial who opposed them in the war. Your actions could have ramifications for the entire world.

But enough about that. What kind of primordial was Syrazi? Most of them wore some kind of hat, be they a giant worm that summons storms or a huge snake-skinned woman or a being of stone with two heads.I might use such world-effecting ramifications for plot later... Right now the party is concerned only with a villain who wishes to take over a single city. Expanding to a larger area as they near Paragon Tier could be good.

Well, I haven't decided on her entire history. Honestly, I couldn't find a whole lot of information on primordials anywhere... Right now she's humanoid and, while lying on her side halfway embedded into the ground, is mistakable for a mountain range. She also has a similar interior to humans, except made of stone. And she's full of parasites; oozes and aberrations mostly, which the players have cleared out half of.

The players have traveled a straight line from her rear to her mouth and are about to go back to explore her lungs. In my notes, she's pregnant with a 2-headed stone titan that due to complications with her coma is stuck in there, still tethered and not quite finished developing. [Stone Titan, deleveled to 10 with the Beast of Demogorgon Template, modified to allow 2 basic attacks instead of 2 bite attacks. Still retains it's size though.] The cave it's in is currently guarded by chuuls. The aged infant amuses itself by tossing rocks at them occasionally.

To heal her, the players would have to heal a crack on an orb in her heart (accessible via eroded hole in her lung). There's a matching crack in the heart letting light into that chamber. Doing so will cause all of her wounds to start to heal (earthquake, get out fast). As for what the PCs encountered... In the first room, there were some rats, an ooze, fell taints and flammable air. In the second there were oozes, some acid sprayers (from the pancreas) and a green slime trap (from the gallbladder). The stomach had a weak acid pool, big parasitic worm and a Black Pudding. (If any of that matters). The lungs will have a reversing wind effect, stirges, ravening cysts and carrion crawlers.

Inyssius Tor
2009-11-11, 07:53 AM
Well, I haven't decided on her entire history. Honestly, I couldn't find a whole lot of information on primordials anywhere...

Well, it's scattered around, but I suppose it is kind of minimal. I've got a couple of things written up that might be of some use, I guess.

History, which you already know: Start at the beginning of time: the primordial lords were the firstborn of the Elemental Chaos, the vast engine of creation and destruction at the heart of the universe. In a frenzy of creation they built the world (among many other things) from the Elemental Chaos's churning matter and energy, ripping it into thirds and linking each to the others, calling mountains and oceans and suns into being. Primal aspects of reality, they were, driven to create and re-create in an endless cycle of building and destruction. If the primordials had been left to their desires, the world would have remained a place of elemental fury and spectacular destruction. Change was their domain.

But at the edges of the Elemental Chaos, in the shimmering expanse of the Astral Sea, the gods saw the primordials' creation and grew jealous. Unasked, they sought to make "improvements"--infusing the world with a different form of life, calming the chaos, attempting to make it permanent, to make it theirs. The primordials fought back, seeking to drive the gods out of their dominion, to (as was their drive) destroy this world, reduce it to the Elemental Chaos, and forge another from the pieces. They created archons and elemental beasts of war to fight the gods' angels, they created the titans (and giants to serve them) to fight the mortal races on Earth.

The Dawn War was the largest, harshest conflict that the world had seen, and likely will ever see. Each of the mighty primordial lords was more than a match for any single god, and--ruling as they did the engines of creation--each commanded vast armies that far outnumbered the gods' angelic hosts. Still, through trickery and teamwork and cunning (I won't go into that, it's a bit of a long story), the gods prevailed. Many primordials were killed, some chained, some imprisoned. Some simply laid low, sleeping for aeons in the hopes that their time would come again.

The primordials were big and very, very powerful, though most have lost a lot of power in their long sleep. Still, that leaves them in the level 34-38 range, about the level of lesser or intermediate deities. They weren't all evil, exactly, but they were all beings of creation and destruction, and sworn enemies of the gods (for good reason, as the gods are sworn enemies of them).

Some names:
Erek-Hus, the King of Terror (split Io in half, got nasty surprise when Tiamat and Bahamut formed from corpse and ate him)
Blazing Rorn, the Fury (sleeps below Abeir, in the Forgotten Realms--he's in the FRCG)
Mual-Tar, the Thunder Serpent (chained to rock in Elemental Chaos--looks like this (http://wizards.com/DnD/TOC.aspx?x=dnd/4new/drtoc/370))
Haemnathuun, the Blood Lord (made blood fiends in own image, now petrified corpse floating in Astral Sea)
Syvexrae, the Queen of Stone (now petrified corpse floating in Abyss, serves as the Ghoul King's lair)
Balcoth, the Groaning King
Castanamir, the Shattered Khan
Heur-Ket
Olhydra, the Rain Queen
Shangar, the Uncrowned
Solkara, the Crushing Wave
Tabrach-Ti, Queen of Bronze
Vezzuvu, the Burning Mountain
Bazim-Gorag, Lord of the Pandemonium Stone
Akadi, Queen of the Air
Grumbar, Lord of the Earth
Istishia, Lord of Water
Kossuth, Lord of Fire
Dendar the Night Serpent
Kezef the Chaos Hound
Borem of the Boiling Mud
Ubtao the Deceiver
The Blackstar
Asgoroth, the World Shaper
Durbaagal (defeated by Auril at the dawn of time)
Imix, the Fire Lord
The Queen of Chaos
Atropus, the World Born Dead (possible undead primordial)
Ilmeth
Shax, the Devastator
Nekal, of the Glowing Deep
Zurtharak

... borrowed from here (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=463183).

But we don't know much about many of those.

Okay, on to being actually relevant: boons. I don't know what Syrazi's precise "hat" was, pre-petrification--a burning emerald fog with many giant diamonds for eyes? A mountain-sized orichalcum drider that spun clouds? A many-mouthed Chinese dragon of time and the sea?--but the boons aren't terribly flavor-specific either, so it doesn't really matter too much. I think most any of them would work.

Avandra's boon or Corellon's boon would probably be handy for the bard, or Ioun's Revelation if you want his Diplomacy bonus to be even crazier.

Kord's Mighty Strength would be thematic for the barbarian, of course.

Depending on Syrazi's shtick, either Melora's boon or Moradin's boon would probably fit her, and Corellon's definitely would if you chose two thematic powers for it to bestow.

The Raven Queen's Shroud would be good for the swordmage, I think. As would Bahamut's, but his is much less flashy.

For custom items, if you want 'em--
I've been thinking about an item that lets you influence the world around you as if it were an unstable plane, making Intelligence checks to move or reshape objects and so on (see Manual of the Planes, p.10). That might work for the tiefling, since he's Int-primary...?

On a similar transformative theme, something that lets you use a low-level warden guardian form power once a day might be good (remember, they all stack with rages).

And as for the barbarian, if he doesn't show... the awakening of a primordial on Earth would stir up all kinds of forces. The Astral Sea and Elemental Chaos might stay out of it for a while, if you want, but the primal spirits of the Earth itself would be waking up in a hurry. When the actual Jungian archetype of predatory rage starts getting angry, for instance, there are going to be consequences. If the barbarian is at all linked to the forces of the Earth (he does technically use the Primal power source), he could gain power just from that.

Thajocoth
2009-11-11, 02:33 PM
Well, it's scattered around, but I suppose it is kind of minimal. I've got a couple of things written up that might be of some use, I guess.

History, which you already know: Start at the beginning of time: the primordial lords were the firstborn of the Elemental Chaos, the vast engine of creation and destruction at the heart of the universe. In a frenzy of creation they built the world (among many other things) from the Elemental Chaos's churning matter and energy, ripping it into thirds and linking each to the others, calling mountains and oceans and suns into being. Primal aspects of reality, they were, driven to create and re-create in an endless cycle of building and destruction. If the primordials had been left to their desires, the world would have remained a place of elemental fury and spectacular destruction. Change was their domain.

But at the edges of the Elemental Chaos, in the shimmering expanse of the Astral Sea, the gods saw the primordials' creation and grew jealous. Unasked, they sought to make "improvements"--infusing the world with a different form of life, calming the chaos, attempting to make it permanent, to make it theirs. The primordials fought back, seeking to drive the gods out of their dominion, to (as was their drive) destroy this world, reduce it to the Elemental Chaos, and forge another from the pieces. They created archons and elemental beasts of war to fight the gods' angels, they created the titans (and giants to serve them) to fight the mortal races on Earth.

The Dawn War was the largest, harshest conflict that the world had seen, and likely will ever see. Each of the mighty primordial lords was more than a match for any single god, and--ruling as they did the engines of creation--each commanded vast armies that far outnumbered the gods' angelic hosts. Still, through trickery and teamwork and cunning (I won't go into that, it's a bit of a long story), the gods prevailed. Many primordials were killed, some chained, some imprisoned. Some simply laid low, sleeping for aeons in the hopes that their time would come again.

The primordials were big and very, very powerful, though most have lost a lot of power in their long sleep. Still, that leaves them in the level 34-38 range, about the level of lesser or intermediate deities. They weren't all evil, exactly, but they were all beings of creation and destruction, and sworn enemies of the gods (for good reason, as the gods are sworn enemies of them).

Some names:
Erek-Hus, the King of Terror (split Io in half, got nasty surprise when Tiamat and Bahamut formed from corpse and ate him)
Blazing Rorn, the Fury (sleeps below Abeir, in the Forgotten Realms--he's in the FRCG)
Mual-Tar, the Thunder Serpent (chained to rock in Elemental Chaos--looks like this (http://wizards.com/DnD/TOC.aspx?x=dnd/4new/drtoc/370))
Haemnathuun, the Blood Lord (made blood fiends in own image, now petrified corpse floating in Astral Sea)
Syvexrae, the Queen of Stone (now petrified corpse floating in Abyss, serves as the Ghoul King's lair)
Balcoth, the Groaning King
Castanamir, the Shattered Khan
Heur-Ket
Olhydra, the Rain Queen
Shangar, the Uncrowned
Solkara, the Crushing Wave
Tabrach-Ti, Queen of Bronze
Vezzuvu, the Burning Mountain
Bazim-Gorag, Lord of the Pandemonium Stone
Akadi, Queen of the Air
Grumbar, Lord of the Earth
Istishia, Lord of Water
Kossuth, Lord of Fire
Dendar the Night Serpent
Kezef the Chaos Hound
Borem of the Boiling Mud
Ubtao the Deceiver
The Blackstar
Asgoroth, the World Shaper
Durbaagal (defeated by Auril at the dawn of time)
Imix, the Fire Lord
The Queen of Chaos
Atropus, the World Born Dead (possible undead primordial)
Ilmeth
Shax, the Devastator
Nekal, of the Glowing Deep
Zurtharak

... borrowed from here (http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=463183).

But we don't know much about many of those.

Okay, on to being actually relevant: boons. I don't know what Syrazi's precise "hat" was, pre-petrification--a burning emerald fog with many giant diamonds for eyes? A mountain-sized orichalcum drider that spun clouds? A many-mouthed Chinese dragon of time and the sea?--but the boons aren't terribly flavor-specific either, so it doesn't really matter too much. I think most any of them would work.

Avandra's boon or Corellon's boon would probably be handy for the bard, or Ioun's Revelation if you want his Diplomacy bonus to be even crazier.

Kord's Mighty Strength would be thematic for the barbarian, of course.

Depending on Syrazi's shtick, either Melora's boon or Moradin's boon would probably fit her, and Corellon's definitely would if you chose two thematic powers for it to bestow.

The Raven Queen's Shroud would be good for the swordmage, I think. As would Bahamut's, but his is much less flashy.

For custom items, if you want 'em--
I've been thinking about an item that lets you influence the world around you as if it were an unstable plane, making Intelligence checks to move or reshape objects and so on (see Manual of the Planes, p.10). That might work for the tiefling, since he's Int-primary...?

On a similar transformative theme, something that lets you use a low-level warden guardian form power once a day might be good (remember, they all stack with rages).

And as for the barbarian, if he doesn't show... the awakening of a primordial on Earth would stir up all kinds of forces. The Astral Sea and Elemental Chaos might stay out of it for a while, if you want, but the primal spirits of the Earth itself would be waking up in a hurry. When the actual Jungian archetype of predatory rage starts getting angry, for instance, there are going to be consequences. If the barbarian is at all linked to the forces of the Earth (he does technically use the Primal power source), he could gain power just from that.

Thanks for the info. I was able to find a little of that in the FRGC, but not a whole lot. This isn't FR exactly... It's got things from all the settings in a more custom campaign, but it does have that piece of FR.

As for Syrazi, she's not petrified, she's actually made of stone. Though her eyes are closed so I can still change what they're made of to diamond or something. A primordial with the element of Earth... One thing I had thought of is using Corellon's boon, but applying it to a Warden's Earth-themed powers instead... But that's only good for the Barbarian. Perhaps add them to a list of choices that take Earth-themed and Force-damage powers from the various classes and let the players choose between them. At the same time, Moradin and Kord's boons seem to work thematically. Perhaps I could give them options here... She offers that the PCs can share some of her strength, endurance or elemental mastery (referring to Kord's, Moradin's and Corellon's respectively.) Then I hand the players the stats for these options and allow them to choose.

I'll need a list for Corellon's though... Two lists... And the PCs would get to pick one item off each list if they choose Corellon's.

Would it be Force-damage powers? Or Thunder-damage powers?

FoE
2009-11-11, 02:40 PM
You forgot about the primal spirits calling an end to the Dawn War when at last it seemed like the conflict would actually destroy the world.

And it was the gods' forces that outnumbered the primordials, not the other way around. Although the primordials could call on mighty giants, elementals and other similar beings, their forces weren't quite as numerous as the gods. Hence the creation of the archons, an inherently evil process that twists an elemental into a crazed warrior that lives only for battle.

As for boon advice, I gots to read more on that chapter of the DMG2.

Inyssius Tor
2009-11-11, 03:29 PM
And it was the gods' forces that outnumbered the primordials, not the other way around. Although the primordials could call on mighty giants, elementals and other similar beings, their forces weren't quite as numerous as the gods. Hence the creation of the archons, an inherently evil process that twists an elemental into a crazed warrior that lives only for battle.

True. But then they used said archon forges, and suddenly holy crap they were up to their many-elemental armpits in crazed warriors that et cetera.

Er, I think.

(Of course, even if I could find the source for that belief, it wouldn't exactly vindicate me, since ancient history in 4e works more on a "trading good stories" mythological model now, not a "THIS HAPPENED" canonical one. Some sources say Bane was a brilliant mortal tyrant, some say he was the brother of Kord and the son of Khala. Which one is it? That may well be the wrong kind of question!)

Thajocoth
2009-11-11, 04:10 PM
These powers make sense to offer the players for Corellon's boon, but only really help the Barbarian. I should like to have just as many Int & Cha based choices... What makes that difficult is that Force seems to both be the element for Earth and generic magic, and Thunder can be for storms or earthquakes. So pinning down which Force and Thunder powers match is a bit difficult.



(One of these once per encounter)

At-Will
Str Earth Shield Strike
Str Weight of Earth
Str Strength of Stone


(One of these once per day)

Encounter 1
Str Earth Spikes
Str Hungry Earth

Encounter 3
Str Burst of Earth's Fury

Encounter 7
Str Earth Gift
Str Mountain Hammer

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Perhaps adding these options, though some of them are a stretch...

(One of these once per encounter)

At-Will
Con/Cha Eldritch Strike
Cha Blazing Starfall
Cha Chaos Bolt
Int Booming Blade
Int Unbalancing Force
Int Thundering Armor
Int Aggravating Force


(One of these once per day)

Encounter 1
Int Force Orb
Cha Thunder Slam

Encounter 3
Int Pinioning Vortex
Int Blastback Swipe
Cha Claw of Force
Cha Searing Sands

Encounter 7
Int Concussive Echo
Int Thunderclap Strike
Cha Crushing Sphere
Wis Tremor

Asbestos
2009-11-11, 04:47 PM
True. But then they used said archon forges, and suddenly holy crap they were up to their many-elemental armpits in crazed warriors that et cetera.

Er, I think.

(Of course, even if I could find the source for that belief, it wouldn't exactly vindicate me, since ancient history in 4e works more on a "trading good stories" mythological model now, not a "THIS HAPPENED" canonical one. Some sources say Bane was a brilliant mortal tyrant, some say he was the brother of Kord and the son of Khala. Which one is it? That may well be the wrong kind of question!)

That's all true, but the thing about the Primal Spirits bringing it to an end and crushing god and primordial alike is more towards the canon side I believe.

Inyssius Tor
2009-11-11, 05:32 PM
That's all true, but the thing about the Primal Spirits bringing it to an end and crushing god and primordial alike is more towards the canon side I believe.

Indeed. I think that most sources agree that--unlike the gods--the primordial side lost, though, and lost very badly. In that there are a whole bunch of gods left in the Astral Sea, and they appear to be doing quite well for themselves; but there are very few primordials left anywhere, and most of those are chained, petrified, dormant, or dead-but-dreaming.

(Unless you count Orcus and Demogorgon and their twisted kin, but I don't think they really count anymore.)

----

On Corellon's boon: I would trim that list down to two or three choices, personally, just for ease of selection. I'm partial to some of the Warden ones you listed, particularly Earthgrasp Strike, Earth Spikes, and Hungry Earth (and maybe Roots of Stone, from Primal Power). For at-wills... not sure, really, but Blazing Starfall and Booming Blade don't seem too bad. I would let you use the ability score of your choice as the primary stat for any of these, so that the boon would be useful to any of your players.

On the other boons: Corellon's boon is kind of flashy, so it seems kind of like the go-to choice. To make the other two equally attractive, I'd make Kord's Mighty Strength the level 13 version, and... hm. It doesn't seem like forced movement has really been that prominent in my games, so I'm not sure, but it seems like Moradin's Blessing is weak enough that you could make the level 3 or 8 versions' daily into an encounter power without making it too good.

Asbestos
2009-11-11, 05:37 PM
Indeed. I think that most sources agree that--unlike the gods--the primordial side lost, though, and lost very badly. In that there are a whole bunch of gods left in the Astral Sea, and they appear to be doing quite well for themselves; but there are very few primordials left anywhere, and most of those are chained, petrified, dormant, or dead-but-dreaming.

Indeed, but since this is a world-bound Primordial, I imagine that it has as much of a chance as raising the ire of the gods as raising that of the more powerful Primal Spirits.

Thajocoth
2009-11-11, 05:48 PM
On Corellon's boon: I would trim that list down to two or three choices, personally, just for ease of selection. I'm partial to some of the Warden ones you listed, particularly Earthgrasp Strike, Earth Spikes, and Hungry Earth (and maybe Roots of Stone, from Primal Power). For at-wills... not sure, really, but Blazing Starfall and Booming Blade don't seem too bad. I would let you use the ability score of your choice as the primary stat for any of these, so that the boon would be useful to any of your players.

On the other boons: Corellon's boon is kind of flashy, so it seems kind of like the go-to choice. To make the other two equally attractive, I'd make Kord's Mighty Strength the level 13 version, and... hm. It doesn't seem like forced movement has really been that prominent in my games, so I'm not sure, but it seems like Moradin's Blessing is weak enough that you could make the level 3 or 8 versions' daily into an encounter power without making it too good.

I hadn't thought of simply changing the ability score used... That works easily. I was planning on offering level 13 versions, but if the PCs take Corellons and pick an encounter power of a lower level, use the level 3 or 8 version of the boon as appropriate. THEN adjust their future parcels to match.

-----

Syrazi basically appeared to be killed, and everyone assumed her dead, but she was actually in a sort of coma. Is that basically the same as "dead but dreaming"?

-----

EDIT
New list using Stat and Secondary Stat instead of specific Stats, with 6 encounter powers and 10 daily powers to pick from:

At-Will
Earth Shield Strike
Weight of Earth
Strength of Stone
Chaos Bolt
Booming Blade
Thundering Armor


Encounter 1
Earth Spikes
Hungry Earth
Roots of Stone

Encounter 3
Searing Sands
Burst of Earth's Fury
Earthgrasp Strike

Encounter 7
Earth Gift
Mountain Hammer
Tremor
Mountain's Stature