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Choco
2009-11-11, 12:00 PM
As we all know, there are spells that are lifesavers, but only under certain rare circumstances. As such, I was wondering what y'all think are the best spells that should be kept on hand as scrolls at all times, specifically for a sorcerer who doesn't have the spells known to waste.

And on a semi-related note, what are the best spells for lowering a target's fortitude save? Preferably some that dont require a failed fortitude save to do so...

Boci
2009-11-11, 12:05 PM
As we all know, there are spells that are lifesavers, but only under certain rare circumstances. As such, I was wondering what y'all think are the best spells that should be kept on hand as scrolls at all times, specifically for a sorcerer who doesn't have the spells known to waste.

Teleport (in some campeigns this can be worth a spell known), purge invisibility, any race specific spell such as anti-dragon aura.


And on a semi-related note, what are the best spells for lowering a target's fortitude save? Preferably some that dont require a failed fortitude save to do so...

Enervate? The shadow caster had the spell flesh fails that reduced con without a save, not sure if there is an arcane equivilant.

Glimbur
2009-11-11, 12:08 PM
Comprehend Languages is solid on a scroll. Flesh to Stone is nice to have in scroll form. The general rule is that you'd like spells that do weird but useful things with no save, SR, or level-dependent duration, range, or effect. Fireball is a bad choice because the damage and save are sad.

ericgrau
2009-11-11, 12:08 PM
Almost any spell you wouldn't put on your prepared list

level 1: alarm, endure elements, hold portal, protection from X, shield, unseen servant, comprehend languages, detect secret doors (?), detect undead, identify, true strike (?), tenser's floating disk (I like level 3 for 300 lb. "incapacitated party member" capacity), disguise self, silent image, erase (?), expeditious retreat, jump (?), magic weapon

level 2: protection from arrows, detect thoughts, locate object, see invisibility, gust of wind, shatter (?), minor image, misdirection (?), knock, spider climb, whispering wind (?)

Get more of those that you expect to use more often, or would need to tag the entire party with. Level 3+ starts to get more expensive, so you'll want to pick only the ones best for your particular situation.

Zaq
2009-11-11, 12:08 PM
Stone to Flesh and Break Enchantment are very, VERY nice to keep around. You never know when you're going to need to reverse something really nasty.

ericgrau
2009-11-11, 12:12 PM
Also very expensive. But once you can afford them it's good to have 1 of each remove affliction spell for freak accidents so that person X isn't pulled out of combat. Then when you get back to town you replace whichever you used.

Choco
2009-11-11, 12:14 PM
hmmm, for the expensive ones I'm sure I can get the party to pitch in, since really most of them will be to save their asses (can't use a Stone to Flesh on myself after all..)

Bayar
2009-11-11, 12:17 PM
For those low level spells you dont wanna prepare but you think will come in handy more often, consider getting them in a Minor Schema (that is Scroll that can be activated 1/day that doesnt run out).

jiriku
2009-11-11, 12:19 PM
Reducing Fort saves: it's actually easier to reduce all saves at once.

My preferred method for a necromancer is to take the feats black lore of moil and fell frighten, then apply both to a ray of sickness (black lore qualifies the spell for fell frighten). A moilian fell frightening ray of sickness imposes both sickeneed and shaken with a successful ranged touch attack (no save), and the combined conditions impose a -4 to all saves.

Ray of sickness by itself is ok too, and it low enough level (level 2) that a mid-level caster can easily quicken it as a set-up for a more powerful spell in the same round.

Choco
2009-11-11, 01:22 PM
For those low level spells you dont wanna prepare but you think will come in handy more often, consider getting them in a Minor Schema (that is Scroll that can be activated 1/day that doesnt run out).

Ooo, that sounds good, what book are those in?

Tyndmyr
2009-11-11, 01:25 PM
Almost any spell you wouldn't put on your prepared list

level 1: alarm, endure elements, hold portal, protection from X, shield, unseen servant, comprehend languages, detect secret doors (?), detect undead, identify, true strike (?), tenser's floating disk (I like level 3 for 300 lb. "incapacitated party member" capacity), disguise self, silent image, erase (?), expeditious retreat, jump (?), magic weapon

Jump is a waste of time, IMO. Likewise true strike. It's too commonly used to be worth taking a scroll of. That sort of things should either be cast, or you buy an eternal wand of it. Detect undead is a giant waste of time. Most undead are notoriously easy to detect via conventional means.

Feather fall is a must.

Also useful, Wings of Cover....though frankly, if you can afford it, this is prime eternal wand fodder here.

Draz74
2009-11-11, 02:31 PM
If an arcane spell is useful enough to be a scroll, it's often useful enough to be a wand too. Wands get discussed a little more often.

Benign Transposition is the ultimate awesome Wand spell (except maybe Prestidigitation).


Feather fall is a must.

Also useful, Wings of Cover....though frankly, if you can afford it, this is prime eternal wand fodder here.

Immediate action spells are, in my experience, not so useful to put in items, since you can't draw the items out of your Handy Haversack or Wand Bracer as part of the immediate action. And you don't usually know ahead of time that you're going to need them (enough to keep a hand occupied by holding a scroll or wand).

Ecalsneerg
2009-11-11, 02:34 PM
My spellcasters always have scrolls/wands of Water Breathing. Death by underwater monsters... heroic. Death by drowning and handing said monsters a free meal... not heroic.

Toliudar
2009-11-11, 02:49 PM
+1 on Water Breathing - exactly the kind of spell that is almost never useful - until it's absolutely essential. Ditto for the planar tolerance family of spells, although in most cases you're relying on your DM not to put you into auto-death situations, so YMMV.

Of course, you're using scrolls to fill gaps not filled by the group. So, unless you've got a terrific trapspringer or someone else with the spell, Knock is great to have one of. Detect Thoughts. Mass Resist Energy. Whispering Wind. Gentle Repose. Anticipate Teleportation. Rust Ray.

Lysander
2009-11-11, 02:51 PM
How about some scrolls with metamagic feats on them? You'll really appreciate that scroll of silent spell Dispel Magic after someone casts Silence on you.

Bayar
2009-11-11, 03:15 PM
Ooo, that sounds good, what book are those in?

Magic of Eberron.

Tyndmyr
2009-11-11, 03:57 PM
How about some scrolls with metamagic feats on them? You'll really appreciate that scroll of silent spell Dispel Magic after someone casts Silence on you.

That's actually a really good point. Expensive, sure...but the entire point of scrolls are to cure those "oh crap" moments. A metamagic rod can help with still spell, imo, but cost can also be an issue there.

And Dispel magic is one of those things you will *always* want to have around. Prepare it, have a wand of it, or whatever, but never, ever be without it.

As for immediate action wands, normally I agree, but Wings of Cover is so frequently useful that it's worth being your in-hand item. Multiple eternal wands of it may be worthwhile.

ericgrau
2009-11-11, 05:18 PM
A scroll of silent dispel magic costs 700 gp, or 1,000 gp for caster level 10. A metamagic rod of lesser silent spell costs 3,000 gp and can be used 3 times per day on spells of level 3 or lower. I'm sure you can find other tactical uses for low level spells that won't be heard with a DC 0 listen check. Btw, a lesser rod of extend for the same price is awesome too.


Jump is a waste of time, IMO. Likewise true strike. It's too commonly used to be worth taking a scroll of. That sort of things should either be cast, or you buy an eternal wand of it. Detect undead is a giant waste of time. Most undead are notoriously easy to detect via conventional means.

There are better options than jump, hence the (?), but I included it because 25 gp is dirt cheap way to reliably clear a 10 foot pit (20 feet out of combat), whereas other options are more expensive. Unlike Mario you don't run into pits blocking your path every day, hence the scroll.

Spending an action to make your next action hit, rather than taking 2 actions, is rarely worth it. Unless you're a focused ray caster who frequently gets buff rounds, true strike belongs on a scroll. Quickened true strike OTOH is another story.

Glimbur
2009-11-11, 05:29 PM
And Dispel magic is one of those things you will *always* want to have around. Prepare it, have a wand of it, or whatever, but never, ever be without it.

Dispel Magic is actually a textbook example of a spell you really need to cast yourself because of how caster level dependent it is. Unless you regularly fight casters of much lower level than yourself, the 1d20+5 from a wand isn't going to dispel much.

Dimers
2009-11-11, 07:16 PM
Sword of deception from Complete Arcane can provide up to -5 to a save and has no save itself. I certainly wouldn't call this the "best" way, but it's a way.

I only looked at sorcerer/wizard spells to respond about arcane scrolls, since I don't have a collected list of bard spells.

Force ladder and shroud of undeath are useful at lower levels only. Beyond that, though ...

arcane lock, sign of sealing
glitterdust
gust of wind
pyrotechnics
scent
sonic weapon (few things are immune to it, so this gives an edge in a tough fight)
discern shapechanger
path of the exalted
tongues
seeming/veil, mirage arcana, and any of the general-purpose, as-good-as-your-imagination illusion spells ... in a similar vein, translocation trick
gentle repose
healing touch
water breathing
remove curse, break enchantment, stone to flesh
(mass) fire shield, radiant shield
darsson's potion
mass reduce person (handy to get the party past certain physical obstacles)
perfect summons
vanishing weapon
servant horde (quite likely to be "worth the cost" in a silly game sometime, but you'd never want it taking up a slot)
sending, dream
blight
passwall, stone shape, mud to rock, rock to mud, move earth, ghorus toth's metal melt, rock to lava
telekinesis
cloak of the sea
otiluke's (greater) dispelling screen
sequester
Drawmij's instant summons
(greater) anticipate teleportation
transcribe symbol
iron body, if you don't normally use that spell anyway
hindsight

And I mentioned these in the "divine spells" thread: control weather, touch of adamantine, brilliant blade, control water, telepathy tap/block, assay resistance, shatter.

Depending on your DM's interpretation of scroll casting, the shadow conjuration and shadow evocation series can be great. Wish, limited wish, Alamanther's return, and to a degree fabricate are similar. If the DM (sensibly) thinks that the specific effect would have to be decided at the time of the scroll's creation, then they're useless. You could also try putting Mordenkainen's lucubration into a scroll, though that seems a bit wrong somehow.