Durkon is doomed (more)

[DBJack]

In 690 (http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots0690.html) Roy tells Durkon that he is counting on Durkon to pierce any mirages they encounter. Because the party is depending on him to get them to Girard, nothing is going to go according to plan, and Durkon will be kidnapped, lost, or killed.

Perhaps the linear guild will come into play, maybe the exiled Tyrinarians will capture him, maybe he won't even get off the worm in time and it'll dive under the sand after the party leaves it. Maybe he'll be the only one not affected by an illusion using wisdom to escape, and this will finally push some meaty screen time for Durkon. I doubt the party will get straight to Girard without any problems and all of the illusions will be despelled immediately by True Seeing and everyone makes it unaffected without any sideplots.

[The Dark Fiddler]

1) Duh. It wouldn't be OotS if all the sidetracking and sideplots and stuff didn't happen.

2) Why Durkon specifically? Why will he be killed/kidnapped whatever? I don't quite follow your logic.

[Shale]

Because that way the party won't have access to True Seeing when they encounter Girard's illusions.

[The Dark Fiddler]

Isn't it a bit more likely that True Seeing simply won't work? I'd think a master-illusionist would prepare against it.

[DukeGod]

and Elan was too busy to warn him to not say so...
now Durkon IS doomed surely

[Gourtox]

Because that way the party won't have access to True Seeing when they encounter Girard's illusions.

Or it could be Elan because he said he's relying on Elan's diplomacy skills.

[silvadel]

The rule of unique required abilities:

If your group has only one member who can easily bypass an inspired GM puzzle, you are sure to lose said member before the problem is encountered.

[DBJack]

2) Why Durkon specifically? Why will he be killed/kidnapped whatever? I don't quite follow your logic.

Durkon is the only super-crucial character right now, and he is the character most likely to be benefited from getting some real screen time for once besides those times fighting Leeky in Cliffport or his time with Hilgya. Everyone else has gotten a fair bit of personal time in the past hundred strips. (Elan + Therkla, Roy in Celestia, V and the IFCC, Haley as the Resistance Leader, Belkar pretending). And Roy's line sets him up so the readers know exactly how important he is to the party at this point.

They can probably convince Girard without Elan if it comes to that.

[Silverraptor]

Or it could be Elan because he said he's relying on Elan's diplomacy skills.

I'm actually not that concerned about Elan's diplomacy. He did it pretty good when they were talking to the orcs. It was only because of their religious faith in puppets that got them into trouble.

[HotAndCold]

Don't forget that the Oracle predicted that Durkon would return to his homeland only after dying. And that the 5th and final Gate is located in the Dwarven homelands.

OotPCs:
He's also fated to bring death and destruction in tow when he returns. Things are going to get awful interesting at Kraagor's Gate.

[DBJack]

I'm actually not that concerned about Elan's diplomacy. He did it pretty good when they were talking to the orcs. It was only because of their religious faith in puppets that got them into trouble.

I think he was talking about how Elan could be the one to slow down the plot by getting a side story rather than Durkon.

[jamroar]

Isn't it a bit more likely that True Seeing simply won't work? I'd think a master-illusionist would prepare against it.

Or even set up the lair so that true seeing will be more detrimental than beneficial to intruders.

e.g. Having Symbol spells hidden everywhere behind illusions, or requiring clues hidden inside illusions to find the path.

[Silverraptor]

I know!

:roy:: Damn! These illusions are intense!

:durkon:: I'm on it laddie! True Seeing! Wait there's something written over there!

:roy:: What's it say?

:durkon:: Hang on, let me check.

"I can cast Explosive runes as well, you know."


:smalltongue:

[Moff Chumley]

@^: THIS! :smallbiggrin:

[BatRobin]

I know!

:roy:: Damn! These illusions are intense!

:durkon:: I'm on it laddie! True Seeing! Wait there's something written over there!

:roy:: What's it say?

:durkon:: Hang on, let me check.

"I can cast Explosive runes as well, you know."


:smalltongue:

That would be so funny I wouldn't give a darn if Durkon died then and there.

[Mercenary Pen]

I'm guessing we'll have the classic combination of illusions and riddles and/or misleading information.

For example, a room with sign saying 'beware of monsters in the pits'

Said room has six illusory pits, and one pit hidden by an illusion. The twist, the real pit has no monsters, but a secret passageway leading further into the dungeon. You rely on keeping the PC's too occupied by illusions that they can bypass with true seeing, that they stop actually using their brain to outsmart stuff.

[mikeejimbo]

I wonder why V doesn't have True Seeing? The party is probably a high enough level for a wizard to have 6th level spells. And it seems like a handy thing to learn.

[Raging Gene Ray]

I wonder why V doesn't have True Seeing? The party is probably a high enough level for a wizard to have 6th level spells. And it seems like a handy thing to learn.

Durkon can cast it anyway, and V needs the slots free for his chain lightning and maximized + empowered magic missiles and his other blasty splodey kill you spells.

[Random832]

I wonder why V doesn't have True Seeing? The party is probably a high enough level for a wizard to have 6th level spells. And it seems like a handy thing to learn.

We know that V has 6th level spells. In fact, we know he has 7th level spells.

Hmm...I once heard someone say that a wizard spell slot in which a spell on the cleric list is prepared is a wasted slot.

[Jan Mattys]

I know!

:roy:: Damn! These illusions are intense!

:durkon:: I'm on it laddie! True Seeing! Wait there's something written over there!

:roy:: What's it say?

:durkon:: Hang on, let me check.

"I can cast Explosive runes as well, you know."


:smalltongue:

I lol'd
:smallbiggrin:

[Cazarir]

I agree, that would be so funny:smallbiggrin:

Probably there are just so many traps, illusions and more traps, that Oots will be completely bamboozled (is that word?) with them. Girard probably made illusions so complex, that no amount of inteligence can solve them all.

And that is why Elan will at some point just randomly stumble into something critical, and blow the whole place sky high:smallbiggrin:

[Brendan]

The images might not be broken by true seeing. If he pulls the images kicking and screaming out of the plane of shadow, they are true seeing-proof.

[Fragenstein]

The images might not be broken by true seeing. If he pulls the images kicking and screaming out of the plane of shadow, they are true seeing-proof.

What if this isn't Girard's gate at all? What if the real misdirection is getting people to show up ready to face illusions and then run into Kraagars defenses instead?

Maybe preparing True Seeing isn't a death knell for Dukron, but rather a reduction in his usefullness by prepping for the wrong gate.

[lesser_minion]

Actually, True Seeing is incredibly easy to get round if you have access to transmutation effects, because the rules for True Seeing stipulate that the transmuted (important) form is not "as something actually is".

If you want to deceive people, you can just use a mix of illusions and transmutations to make sure that everyone remains completely in the dark.

[bluewind95]

I know!

:roy:: Damn! These illusions are intense!

:durkon:: I'm on it laddie! True Seeing! Wait there's something written over there!

:roy:: What's it say?

:durkon:: Hang on, let me check.

"I can cast Explosive runes as well, you know."


:smalltongue:

I love that theory. I hope something similar happens!
(Similar because you totally jinxed it happening now because you typed it up in the forums:smalltongue:)

[BishFish]

something is going to happen, bekar is going to end up pushing durkon itno the worm, and they have to go inside it to get him out.

[Spirited Charge]

Durkon is the only super-crucial character right now, and he is the character most likely to be benefited from getting some real screen time for once besides those times fighting Leeky in Cliffport or his time with Hilgya. Everyone else has gotten a fair bit of personal time in the past hundred strips. (Elan + Therkla, Roy in Celestia, V and the IFCC, Haley as the Resistance Leader, Belkar pretending). And Roy's line sets him up so the readers know exactly how important he is to the party at this point.

They can probably convince Girard without Elan if it comes to that.

I completely agree. He hasn't really gotten too much solo time in these past few archs. And, because of that, not too much plot develoupment either...which leads me to a question of my own: In what direction will his plot end up going? Or, rather, what does he have to learn about himself? Knowing this may also lead to knowing how it will come about.

[DBJack]

I completely agree. He hasn't really gotten too much solo time in these past few archs. And, because of that, not too much plot develoupment either...which leads me to a question of my own: In what direction will his plot end up going? Or, rather, what does he have to learn about himself? Knowing this may also lead to knowing how it will come about.

There was another thread floating around speculating where Durkon can improve. So far, his personality involves three characterizations: trees, returning home, and his lawfulness. Trees are a running joke that's become stale. Returning home will occur near the end of the story; his homeland is near Kraagor's gate. His lawfullness is... Durkon. He wouldn't be Durkon if he didn't obey his code, his honor, and Thor's will. It's like Elan becoming smart, or V choosing a gender. It's too much a part of himself to be transformed. So another element must be churned up, possibly a subtler side of him. I think it's time Hilgya turned up, maybe in an illusion. It was his lawful side before that tore them apart. Maybe that'll change now that he has a second chance. But it's tough to predict how Durkon can change when he is currently the same character we saw back in the first panel of the first strip.

[GSFB]

If I was a brilliant epic level illusionist, I'd do two things:

1) Prepare epic illusions that can defeat true seeing.

2) Hire a master rogue to prepare cunning hidden traps, then use low level illusions to set "fake" traps that scare away low-level people and that fool high-level people who use true seeing to see through them.

"Hey look, an obvious trap." "No, it is only an illusion, it is safe."

[Spirited Charge]

Yeah, that does make a lot of sense. I mean, if the place was filled only with epic spells, low level characters wouldn't even know that they were illusions in the first place. They could potentially just walk through one of his best illusions and not even know that they did it at all!

[Arzoo]

Durkon's spell may work fine. The illusions will be so powerful and all-encompassing that while Durkon is unnaffected, the party is immediately unable to perceive him, rendering their plan to rely on his spell pointless.

it's possible that Girard's epic "defense" is the spell responsible for the prevention of the Snarl recognizing open rifts (which seems like it would take epic magic).

Also, I haven't read the prequel stories; were there epic defenses in place of any of the other gates?

[Kish]

Also, I haven't read the prequel stories; were there epic defenses in place of any of the other gates?
Dorukan had a gate powerful enough to blow up Xykon, which he was unable to affect in weeks or months of experimenting on it before the Order showed up.
Soon had an army of positive energy spirit paladins, led by his own epic-level self.
Start of Darkness:
Lirian had a Guardian Virus which rendered all spellcasters who threatened it permanently unable to cast spells, including the sorcerer Xykon, but not the protected-by-Crimson-Mantle cleric Redcloak.

That's three out of three. At this point, it's pretty safe to assume epic-level defenses at Girard's and Kraagor's gates.

[TheBlackShadow]

Not quite on subject here, but I just had a thought about the whole Durkon-prophecy thing. If the prophecy states that Durkon returning to Dwarvern lands will result in doom, death and destruction, then surely the solution would have been to make sure that he never leaves in the first place?

Just so you know, I haven't read On the Origin of PCs, so there might be something I'm missing.

[DBJack]

Not quite on subject here, but I just had a thought about the whole Durkon-prophecy thing. If the prophecy states that Durkon returning to Dwarvern lands will result in doom, death and destruction, then surely the solution would have been to make sure that he never leaves in the first place?

Just so you know, I haven't read On the Origin of PCs, so there might be something I'm missing.

Yoou are missing something :smallbiggrin:

[Lionheart788]

I know!

:roy:: Damn! These illusions are intense!

:durkon:: I'm on it laddie! True Seeing! Wait there's something written over there!

:roy:: What's it say?

:durkon:: Hang on, let me check.

"I can cast Explosive runes as well, you know."


:smalltongue:

A-ma-zing. That is perfect! Hahaha! I love :durkon: - favorite OotS character by far, but I still think this would be comedy gold!

[ObadiahtheSlim]

True Seeing is also useless against mundane illusions and disguises.

[silvadel]

Follow the bouncing ball... This whole thing reminded me of Xykon and the rubber ball of insanity.