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The Glyphstone
2009-11-11, 09:46 PM
The players in my RL game have complained that they want less straightforward dungeoncrawling/killing stuff (as an Evil/Neutral party, go figure...), so I've decided to give them a serial killer to track down - there's an NPC that a portion of the party likes who I plan to have the latest victim as a means of getting them to bite, but if that fails, there will be a reward posted.

The city they're going back to has, in the past few days, been struck with a series of horrific murders, all of low or middle-class people but with no other easily noticable common factor. Every single one of the victims has not only been stabbed to death repeatedly with a sharp blade, but flayed with an inhuman precision from head to toe. The city guards are baffled, and I'll be playing them up as utterly incompetent to boot - helped by the fact that the last time the PCs were in the city, a juvenile chimera broke loose from its cage, and the guards missed it with a ballista for 10 rounds in a row.

None of them read these boards as far as I know, but the nature of the killings is spoilered out of habit:


One of the custom races in my game are called Mechanikals, effectively civilian-brand Warforged expies with a Int penalty instead of Wis. They're 'born' accidentally, out of mass-produced mindless golems that occasionally develop sentience, and usually end up as low-class menial labor, and sometimes the process goes a bit skewed.

In this particular case, the killer is going to be a Mechanikal who worked in a tannery, with long bladed fingers for skinning and preparing hides. Awakening drove it crazy, killing its owner and fleeing into the city's undertown/sewers. It's convinced that it needs flesh and skin to be a real creature, and since it doesn't have any, it's decided to take some from other people, emerging at night and selecting its victims based on their proximity to sewer/undertown entrances. For added nightmare fuel, it radiates a sort of low-level wild magic effect, which is gradually causing the skin and flesh that it 'wears' as a macabre suit to actually be melding with its wood-and-metal body.

Longer than I expected. Since I have a villain, a crime, and a motive, I really need ideas for clues I can leave to gradually point the PCs in the right direction.

Rhiannon87
2009-11-11, 10:13 PM
Okay, first, that is AWESOME and would you mind if I stole the idea to use in my campaign (or to possibly pass onto a friend to use in his)? I really like the nightmare fuel bit... that'll be creepy as hell when they find him.

As for clues... well, the sewer system is the connecting factor. This is where a map of the city and of the sewer system would be logically useful; in a TV show, it'd be the point where the characters hang a map of the city on their wall, put pushpins at the site of every murder, stare at it for a while, then someone yells "THE SEWERS" and they grab a conveniently-located map of the sewers and realize that the murders all happen near entrances to the sewer system.

tl;dr-- you probably ought to make up maps of the city and of the sewers. Make the players work for them, especially the latter map-- that's the kind of thing that the city officials would have and might not give up easily. They could steal it, or bribe someone for a copy, something like that.

Crafty Cultist
2009-11-11, 10:41 PM
when your serial killer is finally cofronted have him run back to his lair. Then they realize that chasing the killer has led them to a dank sewer with human skin hanging from the walls and ceilings. Then have him find away to hide, so that they have the one they have been chasing stalking them in his grisly maze. improvised traps made from bone and sinew can further increased the nightmare fuel.

That's my two cents. Props for the twisted villain idea

Vorpalbob
2009-11-11, 11:01 PM
Seriously, AWESOME IDEA!
Can we use it? Please?
Pretty Please?

Ravens_cry
2009-11-11, 11:07 PM
A good rule I have heard for mystery games is the rule of three, at least three separate clues for each clue segment that will all move the game forward. Because few things are more frustrating then running around in circles looking for the plot lever to push to move the game forward.
Because your playing this in D&D, your going to have to work some way around the ruin mystery line of spells, like 'speak with dead' and also 'raise dead' and other resurrection spells.

The Glyphstone
2009-11-11, 11:08 PM
Hehe, feel free. It was actually inspired by another friend of mine from home, who suggested having a Mechanikal villain who stole people's skin when I described the campaign world to him - I just expanded on the idea seed a little bit.

@^: They just got to Level 3, and have no cleric. Neither Raise Dead or Speak With Dead are available to them, and I can easily say the condition of the bodies makes both of them effectively off-limits anyways, having been horribly mutilated and flayed and all.

jiriku
2009-11-11, 11:17 PM
Red herrings. You need lots of red herrings. Of the metaphorical sort, not the fish market sort. You want to have at least three suspects who turn out to be innocent, possibly as many as five. I'd recommend a tanner, a doctor, a huntsman, and a mortician for starters. All have the necessary skillset to flay a corpse. Give at least two of them some sort of dark or embarrassing secret to hide (unrelated to the murders), the better to have them act suspicious when observed or interrogated.

Three clues at each stage is good. Four or five in different locations might be better. Clues should also come from different sources. For example, a search check locates a suspicious item left at the scene, a survival or profession (leatherworker) check allows a player to deduce a clue from the condition of a body, a gather information check will pick up a clue from the neighbors, while a diplomacy or intimidate check will garner a clue from a reluctant eyewitness. If a critical clue or set of clues hinges on a diplomacy check (for instance), then you're boned if the diplomatic character doesn't think to use his skill or botches the roll.

Ravens_cry
2009-11-11, 11:27 PM
@^: They just got to Level 3, and have no cleric. Neither Raise Dead or Speak With Dead are available to them, and I can easily say the condition of the bodies makes both of them effectively off-limits anyways, having been horribly mutilated and flayed and all.
That still raises the question of why some higher level NPC doesn't do it. Why can't the city, or a richer victims relative, spring for a resurrection and solve the whole mystery in one fell swoop? I know, I know, then you wouldn't have game. I am just saying these kinds of details can break verisimilitude if not addressed.

Dimers
2009-11-11, 11:35 PM
I'd like to comment at length, but some of what I have to say would be a spoiler. I can't find anything in the FAQ about how to create a spoiler box. Help, please? Never mind; a lower post gave lots of it away anyhow. Of course, now that means that my response will take up three screens of length :smalltongue:

Baldur's Gate 2 had a skin-taking, tannery-working serial killer villain. Scent was used as one clue as to the identity -- a witness remembered an odd smell, and eventually you could track that down as being specific to a very particular type of tanning done by one person in the city. I think a special kind of elephant-hide armor was another clue given by an NPC, possibly as part of resolving the smell issue. I don't remember the rest ... wish I'd been able to finish the human skin armor quest, but I was kinda, y'know, good-aligned and stuff. Anyway, smells might hint at either the tannery angle or the sewer angle.

This being a fantasy world, your players might not assume that the killer is mundane. They're likely to think of undead or aberrations as the most likely suspects. You can use that to create a red herring "clue". You can also use it to explain the lack of bodies, just in case someone decides to buy a speak with dead scroll or something -- the people are terrified of an undead plague, so the bodies were burned. Given the implication of undead and the smells reported by witnesses, the players might very well assume ghouls are the perpetrators.

Which reminds me -- try not to say "the killer" as opposed to "the killers". The PCs might eventually make the assumption that there's only one creature at work here, but all the clues can say is that there's only one at a time.

I don't know whether Mekanikals are supposed to be emotionless. If so, there will be opportunities to point to a mechanical, unfeeling air to the killings, like lack of hurrying, stab wounds and cuts always made at precise places to preserve the bulk of the hide, witnesses' reports that the killer totally ignored pleas ... These can be mundane traits too, but they would at least help the party focus on the less emotional suspects.

If anyone has heard the footsteps of the wood-and-metal creature, that's practically a giveaway as to its race. Does it wear boots? Maybe at one crime scene, due to the victim's resistance, a boot gets left behind. The muck on it would point to the sewer, and the pattern of wear inside could give a strong indication of the killer's inhuman nature.

Maybe a thief was on his way to a 'job' via the sewers and saw the killer bringing back a fresh skin or saw its previous work. Finding out about the thief, getting to him, and getting him to talk -- three different problems all wrapped up in one. And if the thief panicked at the sight (more believable if he were a child), running away blindly, it's quite possible that he could locate the general area without being able to lead the party right to the hideout.

The case could be made harder by someone else taking advantage of the killings. Say, some goblins or kobolds living in the sewers and eating trash -- but they're glad for the fresh meat! That would make some bodies disappear but not others. Introducing other creatures would give the PCs a combat or two to break up the purely-mental exercise of ScoobyDooing. Heck, even one of the other suspects (a great concept, Jiriku) could be taking advantage of the deaths, which could be her "dark secret" or just make the suspicion more damning.

A suspect going vigilante is also going to make them look more suspicious, and might conceivably lead to a fight. On the other hand, it gives you the opportunity to shove clues into the faces of the characters who missed them.

If the PCs are about to catch the villain, have it run through an area of the sewer thick with noxious gas. It doesn't breathe, so it zooms on past, but they're all reduced to single move actions for d4+1 rounds, or even knocked out (and starting to drown in eighteen inches of sewer water).

Maybe a higher-level mage has heard of the problem, investigated it magically, decided it doesn't affect him, and ignored it without telling anyone of his findings. He's known to look down on the general populace, so whoever's in charge of the investigation realizes that the mage might know something and just not care about sharing. Then the PCs could have a mini-dungeon in the form of breaking past his wards and protections to get information from him. You don't have to give away much -- a brief journal entry, or the result of a homebrew spell that just happens to reveal exactly enough of a clue to get the PCs back on the main track.

Rhiannon87
2009-11-12, 08:22 AM
That still raises the question of why some higher level NPC doesn't do it. Why can't the city, or a richer victims relative, spring for a resurrection and solve the whole mystery in one fell swoop? I know, I know, then you wouldn't have game. I am just saying these kinds of details can break verisimilitude if not addressed.

There's always the tried-and-true cliche of "it's just the poor, the guards don't care". Not sure if that applies in your setting, but it's a believable enough excuse. So long as this guy doesn't murder anyone important, the guards will probably show up, make a cursory effort at gathering evidence, and then leave. Why would a cleric bother wasting their Almighty Divine Power on a bunch of commoners?

Ravens_cry
2009-11-12, 08:47 AM
There's always the tried-and-true cliche of "it's just the poor, the guards don't care". Not sure if that applies in your setting, but it's a believable enough excuse. So long as this guy doesn't murder anyone important, the guards will probably show up, make a cursory effort at gathering evidence, and then leave. Why would a cleric bother wasting their Almighty Divine Power on a bunch of commoners?
Reading the OP, the players care about one of the victims. Now, if they really care about this person, the players just might pool their resources and get a resurrection happening. Bam, adventure OVER. And before anyone says "like that will happen', these are players we are talking about. Crazier things have happened. Also the players potentially care about one victim, one. But what about the rest?

deuxhero
2009-11-12, 09:19 AM
Don't be afraid of Speak with Dead, use it to gain a lead"
Say they Cast Speak with Dead and ask if they knew who/what killed them, if they do answer by iding them and if not say no. This gets you "An elf" (or whatever) and they know what to focus on.

Edwin
2009-11-12, 09:24 AM
This reminds me of something..

Anyway, a good way of spurring the PC's on would be to have the killer attack them, without disclosing his nature in any way, and then fleeing when he realizes that they're too powerful to destroy by a direct attack.

Or maybe he beats the crap out of the PC's. Hopefully, they'll flee.

Give them a good reason to want to kill him, and besides he teared our friend in pieces, the fact that he's powerful, and as such worth good exp, would be a great proverbial carrot for the more metaminded players.

Lapak
2009-11-12, 09:38 AM
Red herrings. You need lots of red herrings. Of the metaphorical sort, not the fish market sort. You want to have at least three suspects who turn out to be innocent, possibly as many as five. I'd recommend a tanner, a doctor, a huntsman, and a mortician for starters. All have the necessary skillset to flay a corpse. Give at least two of them some sort of dark or embarrassing secret to hide (unrelated to the murders), the better to have them act suspicious when observed or interrogated.I'm going to disagree with this pretty strongly, especially if this is the first murder-mystery you're doing. Unless your players are really tuned in to how your mind works, they're going to have enough trouble recognizing the true clues you give them without sorting out the false ones. Unless you want this to be less 'an adventure' and more 'a short campaign', I'd leave the red herrings out.

Three clues at each stage is good. Four or five in different locations might be better. Clues should also come from different sources. For example, a search check locates a suspicious item left at the scene, a survival or profession (leatherworker) check allows a player to deduce a clue from the condition of a body, a gather information check will pick up a clue from the neighbors, while a diplomacy or intimidate check will garner a clue from a reluctant eyewitness. If a critical clue or set of clues hinges on a diplomacy check (for instance), then you're boned if the diplomatic character doesn't think to use his skill or botches the roll.
This advice is good, though! It won't seem like a giant pile of clues, because they'll almost certainly move on after identifying one or two of them and it gives them a good chance to actually FIND them.

elliott20
2009-11-12, 09:38 AM
don't make the players the ONLY ones looking for the killer either. throw in other people who are entangled in this mess who have agendas of their own about the murder.

The Glyphstone
2009-11-12, 11:22 AM
Reading the OP, the players care about one of the victims. Now, if they really care about this person, the players just might pool their resources and get a resurrection happening. Bam, adventure OVER. And before anyone says "like that will happen', these are players we are talking about. Crazier things have happened. Also the players potentially care about one victim, one. But what about the rest?

only one of the players actually cares about the victim (the CN member of the party). The other three are, unfortunately, varying degrees of Stupid Evil, which I have so far put up with. I'm not worried about the players wondering why the victims haven't been resurrected...it's much more likely that the Rogue will decide to give me grief because having sewers in a 'medieval' city is unrealistic. Never mind the existence of things like Rome.

Lots of good advice so far, stuff I can definitely use (and I had totally forgotten about the Skinner murders in BGII:smallannoyed:).

valadil
2009-11-12, 11:41 AM
You should watch Dexter. Specifically season 3. The rest of it is worthwhile too though.

Anyway, try to figure out the clues you'll give the players. Figure out some red herrings too. Don't worry about placing the clues anywhere in particular. Just let them out wherever the players investigate, so long as it makes sense. If you want this to be difficult, include random noise. This isn't quite the same as a red herring. Red herrings are deliberate misinformation. Random noise is non information that gets in the way. If the murder weapon is a knife, and the group finds it in the bushes at the scene of the crime, you've given them the weapon for free. If the same knife is cleaned and returned to the kitchen, there are hundreds of other knives as well. Figuring out which one is the murder weapon will be tricky.

Another technique that I like for making the mystery more difficult is social misinformation. Someone can fail to tell the truth without lying. His interpretation can be erroneous. Or he is simply repeating a lie that he believes to be true. NPCs are not dispensers of perfect information.

The problem with this last technique is that players who are too used to puzzles do expect NPCs to dispence perfect information. They'll line up the info like a puzzle, find the piece that doesn't fit, and go after the distributer of that information. When the mystery doesn't play out like a logic puzzle, they can get frustrated. Personally, I think they frustrate too easily. Use of this sort of technique will depend on if your players like being challenged more than they like winning.