Arena Tournament, Round 77: Violent Roses vs Thag

[ArenaManager]

Arena Tournament, Round 77: Violent Roses vs. Thag

Map:
http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee221/Kyace/glasshouse.png


XP Award: 300 XP
GP Award: 300 GP

Violent Roses (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=142546) - madtinker
Thag (http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheetview.php?sheetid=163377) - vollmond

All Combatants, please roll initiative and declare final purchases, if any

[vollmond]

Thag and Dawg

Init: [roll0]

No purchases.

[madtinker]

Violent Roses

Init [roll0]

No purchases.

[vollmond]

Thag, Turn 1

Refs/LoS:

Start in Y-14, holding lance in my off-hand and a loaded sling in my right. Other sling is loaded, on my belt (the only piece of clothing I'm wearing).
Move: Y-14 to V-14
Standard: Ready action
If he approaches within charging range (and he's in a direction i can charge), do so.


Hide [roll0]
Move Silently [roll]1d20+4]
Reactive Spot [roll1]
Reactive Listen [roll2]


Turn done.

Statblock:

Position: V-14
Hp: 14/14
AC: 16, Flat-Footed 12, Touch 16 (+4 dex, +1 size, +1 dodge)
Remaining Consumables:
30 stones

Ferocity unused

[vollmond]

Refs

Move Silently: [roll0]

[madtinker]

Violent Roses
I think we started with LoS, but now you might not see me, so:
@Ref/LoSStart with Shield and bastard sword equipped. Move to H14. Ready ActionMove toward him if I see him end his turn
Stats

Location:H14
HP: 19/19
AC: 18
Saves: +6, +3, -3
Done

[HCL]

Hold up there

@Vollmond, other refsIf I am reading your action right, you are readying an action to charge. Charging is a full round action unless you are a zombie or disabled, so you can't ready it.

I am not sure if you need to use your hide/ms modifiers or those of the dog's if you are moving on the dog.

[vollmond]

refs:

From SRD:
If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn, you can still charge, but you are only allowed to move up to your speed (instead of up to double your speed). You can’t use this option unless you are restricted to taking only a standard action or move action on your turn.

Doesn't that mean you can do a mini-charge if you've already moved?

Regarding the hide/ms, you're probably right. Dog's rolls:
Hide: [roll0]
Move Silently: [roll1]

Dog should get listen/spot, too:
Spot: [roll2]
Listen: [roll3]

EDIT: oh, and dog has scent, for whatever that entails

[vollmond]

Ok, yeah, we should have started with loS. i'll need to revise my turn. hopefully later tonight.

[HCL]

@vollmond"If you are able to take only a standard action or a move action on your turn"

This refers to characters who are disabled, and zombies. Otherwise it is a full round action. You might normally be able to ready an action to move, but I am also not sure about that since you are riding an animal and I have been told that it is not possible to handle an animal to ready an action (or requires an obscure trick).

I believe that you actually have some concealment towards each other, so you may or not start with LOS. I am not sure, another ref should decide.

[madtinker]

Precedent is that you begin with LoS, but usually it is lost first round as one player moves behind a second pane.

[vollmond]

Thag, Turn 1 Redux

Start in Y-14, mounted, loaded sling and lance in hand.
Move: Move South, breaking LoS

Y-14, Y-15, X-16, W-16, V-15
Standard: ready action

To shoot Roses if he ends his turn within LoS.

Would be good to get a ruling on officially whose rolls count here:
Thag
Hide [roll0]
Move Silently [roll1]
Reactive Spot [roll2]
Reactive Listen [roll3]

Dawg
Hide [roll4]
Move Silently [roll5]
Reactive Spot [roll6]
Reactive Listen [roll7]
Dawg has scent, as well.

Also, ref question:

The listing for the riding dog says this about skills:


Skills: Jump +8, Listen +5, Spot +5, Swim +3, Survival +1


Does that include the associated ability bonus? I assume not. If it does, then subtract 1 from both of dog's reactive rolls.


LoS Ref, please let me know if I can open his first-turn spoiler, since I should have regained LoS to him now.


Turn done.

Statblock:

Position: V-15, mounted, loaded sling and lance in hand
Hp: 14/14
AC: 16, Flat-Footed 12, Touch 16 (+4 dex, +1 size, +1 dodge)
Remaining Consumables:
30 stones

Ferocity unused


EDIT: hmm just realized i don't know if the "any valid actions stand as is" rule applies here - should i have redone my turn? I'll let a ref sort that out.

[Psionic Dog]

High Ref PsiDog

Error: Illegal Action detected. Riding with both hands full requires a Guide-With-Knees Ride Check, Auto-Succeed not possible. Rewind (again) to start of Thag's turn.

@Thag
Thag does not need to roll a Move-Silently if he personally doesn't do any moving.
There is still some unresolved debate on the mechanics of stealth while mounted (if such a thing is possible), but for now having both the rider and mount make hide checks, taking the worst, seems to be as good a way as any. Feel free to ask for more ref opinions.

As for the dog, all listed skills are the final results for which all relevant skills, abilities, and feats of the creature have already been applied.

Now, just to make sure this is extra official with no further starting LoS misunderstandings...
LoS
Ladies and gentlemen, to our left we have the brute, the only, Vilolent Roses! As you can see this Water Orc is fully armed and armored with chain shirt, small wooden shield and pointy bastard sword.

If you will now direct your attention to the right you will see the up and rising challenger, the Naked Avenger! A stunning contrast this Lesser Svirfneblin is true to his name and proudly riding high bearback upon his riding dog clad only with a wide leather belt holding a sling and lance for accessories.

Let the match begin! <Insert, loud, annoying starting bell sound>

[vollmond]

Thanks much, PsiDog. Is that Guide with Knees check required on every turn, or just turns when I move?

Thag, Turn 1 Redux^2

Start in Y-14, mounted, lance in hand and both loaded slings on my belt.
DC5 Guide with Knees check: [roll0] (including -5 for bareback)
Move: Move South, breaking LoS.

Y-14, Y-15, X-16, W-16, V-15
If the GwK check passed:
Draw sling as I move.
Standard: ready action

To shoot Roses if he ends his turn within LoS.


Else:
Move: Draw sling.


Thag (no MS since he's not the one walking)
Hide [roll1]
Reactive Spot [roll2]
Reactive Listen [roll3]

Dawg
Hide [roll4]
Move Silently [roll5]
Reactive Spot [roll6]
Reactive Listen [roll7]
Dawg has scent, as well.


Turn done. Maybe. If we're really lucky.

Statblock:

Position: V-15, mounted, loaded sling and lance in hand
Hp: 14/14
AC: 16, Flat-Footed 12, Touch 16 (+4 dex, +1 size, +1 dodge)
Remaining Consumables:
30 stones

Ferocity unused


EDIT: formatting

[madtinker]

Violent Roses, Rd1

@Ref/LoSStart with Shield and bastard sword equipped. Move to D19. Ready ActionMove toward him if I see him end his turn

Stats

Location:D19
HP: 19/19
AC: 18
Saves: +6, +3, -3

Done

[vollmond]

Thag, Turn 2


Standard: Ready action
Shoot Roses if he ends his turn within LoS, and take a 5-foot step

I'd like to re-hide, but let Dawg keep his hide roll of 21. If that is possible, I'll do it. Otherwise, we both keep our hide rolls. EDIT: not that it made a difference, apparently...
Thag
Hide [roll0]
Reactive Spot [roll1]
Reactive Listen [roll2]

Dawg
Reactive Spot [roll3]
Reactive Listen [roll4]
Dawg has scent, as well.


Turn done.

Statblock:

Position: V-15, mounted, loaded sling and lance in hand
Hp: 14/14
AC: 16, Flat-Footed 12, Touch 16 (+4 dex, +1 size, +1 dodge)
Remaining Consumables:
30 stones

Ferocity unused

[RandomAction]

Ini ref: RandomAction

Refs: I am not to sure about the distance, but I believe that neither can hear the other. Please correct me if I am wrong. Also, TAG your it.

Thaq: No LoS.Nice roll on the handle animal though.

Violent Roses: No LoS. I like the build of your character.

[madtinker]

Violent Roses, Rd-2

@RefsThanks!

@Refs/LoSMove to I21, ready action to move toward my opponent when he ends his turn.

StatsLocation:I21
HP: 19/19
AC: 18
Saves: +6, +3, -3

Done, go ahead (ref spoiler will not slow down play).

[vollmond]

Thag, Turn 3


Standard: Ready action
Shoot Roses if he ends his turn within LoS, and take a 5-foot step


I'd like to re-hide, but let Dawg keep his hide roll of 21. EDIT: *SIGH*
Thag
Hide [roll0]
Reactive Spot [roll1]
Reactive Listen [roll2]

Dawg
Reactive Spot [roll3]
Reactive Listen [roll4]
Dawg has scent, as well.


Turn done.

Statblock:

Position: V-15, mounted, loaded sling and lance in hand
Hp: 14/14
AC: 16, Flat-Footed 12, Touch 16 (+4 dex, +1 size, +1 dodge)
Remaining Consumables:
30 stones

Ferocity unused

[Lubirio]

Refs:
Tag you're it, my useless-ref-spoiler count is now 2.

LoS:

Thag:
No LoS, Dawg doesn't smell anything.

Violent Roses:
No LoS.

[madtinker]

Violent Roses, Rd 3

Move at half speed, hiding [roll0] and moving silently [roll1], from I 21 to I24. Peek around the corner: (reactive spot) [roll2]

Not done, need LoS

[Lubirio]

Refs:
I like this, my count is now 3. :smallamused:

LoS:

Thag:
No LoS.

Violent Roses:
Still no LoS. :smallwink:

[madtinker]

Violent Roses, still Rd3
ready actionmove towards him if he ends turn within LoS

StatsLocation:I24
HP: 19/19
AC: 18
Saves: +6, +3, -3

Done

[vollmond]

Thag, Turn 4


Standard: Ready action
Shoot Roses if he ends his turn within LoS, and take a 5-foot step


I'd like to re-hide, but let Dawg keep his hide roll of 21. EDIT: ok, this is getting ridiculous
Thag
Hide [roll0]
Reactive Spot [roll1]
Reactive Listen [roll2]

Dawg
Reactive Spot [roll3]
Reactive Listen [roll4]
Dawg has scent, as well.


Turn done.

Statblock:

Position: V-15, mounted, loaded sling and lance in hand
Hp: 14/14
AC: 16, Flat-Footed 12, Touch 16 (+4 dex, +1 size, +1 dodge)
Remaining Consumables:
30 stones

Ferocity unused

[Lubirio]

Refs:
Still nothing, count's 4 now. :smallwink:

LoS:

Thag:
Still no LoS.

Violent Roses:
Still nothing. :smallwink:

[madtinker]

Violent roses, Rd 4

move to M24 and attack the glass between M and N24.
attack[roll0]
damage[roll1]


StatsLocation:M24
HP: 19/19
AC: 18
Saves: +6, +3, -3

Edit: fixed spoiler and done

[Lubirio]

Refs:
Random stuff, still counting, now 5.

LoS:

Thag:
No LoS.

Violent Roses:
No LoS.

[vollmond]

Even with that glass gone, there should still be two panes between us, no? Unless he broke the glass in P/Q 20/21, which I didn't see in any LoS checks?

Or have I read the map description wrong? 2 panes of glass = total concealment, with a 50% miss chance, right?

[Lubirio]

Sorry, changing LoS to reflect that. :smallredface:

[madtinker]

I'm guessing my location has been compromised?

[vollmond]

Your current position was visible, yes. Dunno how the arena handles that - I'm fine with you revising your turn, if need be.

[Lubirio]

You can revise your turn if you like.

[madtinker]

Violent Roses, Rd 4 Redo

Move I24-M21, attack the glass between M 20-21
[roll0]
Damage[roll1]


StatsLocation:M21
HP: 19/19
AC: 18
Saves: +6, +3, -3
Done

[Lubirio]

LoS:

LoS is still established as Violent Roses smashes the wall in M20/21 to tatters, he's standing in M21, where he sees Thag standing in V15, mounted and holding a loaded sling and a lance.

[vollmond]

Refs:I had a readied action to fire my sling at Roses if he ended his turn within LoS. If I take that action now, would I be able to deal damage to the glass pane in U/V-15? Or would the shot just expend itself uselessly?

[Lubirio]

Thag:
You can do one of two things:
not take the readied action, or
take the readied action and expend it uselessly since he benefits from total cover, it wouldn't hit the glass since you wouldn't be aiming for it.

Your choice.

[vollmond]

Ok. Forgoing my readied action.

Thag, Turn 5

Standard: ready action at the end of Roses' turn, destroy a pane of glass and take a 5-foot step

Turn done.

Statblock:

Position: V-15
Hp: 14/14
AC: 16, Flat-Footed 12, Touch 16 (+4 dex, +1 size, +1 dodge)
Remaining Consumables:
30 stones

Ferocity unused

[madtinker]

Violent Roses, Rd 5
Free: Switch sword to shield hand (not wielding, just holding)
Move: Draw loaded sling
Standard: Attack glass U-V 15
Attack[roll0]
damage[roll1]
Free: Drop sling
Free: Switch sword back to main hand

Stats:Location:M21
HP: 19/19
AC: 18
Saves: +6, +3, -3

[madtinker]

oh, and done

[vollmond]

End of your turn, my readied action goes off. 5-foot step to U-15.

[Lubirio]

Your readied action is to attack a glass pane and then make a 5ft step. You can attack the glass pane in U/V15, as it is not destroyed yet, it still has 1hp left

[vollmond]

Had to go look up the rules on that one. Ok, I'll attack the same pane of glass:
Sling Attack Roll: [roll0]
Damage: [roll1] (stones)

Then the same 5-foot step

[vollmond]

Thag, Turn 6

Free: Drop my sling
Free: Switch to two-handed grip on lance.
Free: Enter Ferocity
Full-round: Charge to O-19
Attack Roll: [roll0] (including +2 from charge, +2 from ferocity)
Damage: [roll1] (1d6+7, x2 for lance while mounted, x3 for spirited charge)

EDIT: well, that was underwhelming. Turn done.

Statblock:

Position: O-19
Hp: 14/14
AC: 16, Flat-Footed 12, Touch 16 (+4 dex, +1 size, +1 dodge)
AC currently -2 for charge, +2 for ferocity (canceled out)
Remaining Consumables:
29 stones

Ferocity 5/6 remaining
(+4 to str/dex, -2 to ranged attacks at greater than 30 ft, can't use cha/int based skills)

[madtinker]

Even though a lance has reach, I don't think you could have attacked me from there. By diagonals, I count that distance as 15, and if you're small, don't you have less reach anyway?

[vollmond]

Nope, should work fine.

From the SRD:

Note: Small and Medium creatures wielding reach weapons threaten all squares 10 feet (2 squares) away, even diagonally. (This is an exception to the rule that 2 squares of diagonal distance is measured as 15 feet.)

[madtinker]

Violent Roses, Rd 6

Move M21-N20. I believe I provoke an attack of opportunity going M21-M20.

Take it, and I'll finish.

[vollmond]

Attack: [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]

EDIT: another impressive day in the life of the forum die roller

[madtinker]

Violent Roses, finishing rd 6

This isn't endurance, is it? Oh, I just checked. It is. No rage then I guess.

Attack with Bastard Sword of Dismemberment
[roll0]
Damage [roll1]
crit [roll2]
damage[roll3]

StatsLocation:N21
HP: 19/19
AC: 18
Saves: +6, +3, -3

[vollmond]

Ouch.

Thag, Turn 7

Full-round: Withdraw to S-12

Turn done.

Statblock:

Position: S-12
Hp: 7/14
AC: 16, Flat-Footed 12, Touch 16 (+4 dex, +1 size, +1 dodge)
AC currently +2 for ferocity
Remaining Consumables:
29 stones

Ferocity 4/6 remaining
(+4 to str/dex, -2 to ranged attacks at greater than 30 ft, can't use cha/int based skills)

[madtinker]

Violent Roses, Rd 7
Free: Switch bastard sword to shield hand
Move: Draw sling (loaded)
Standard: attack! [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]
Free: Drop sling
Free: Switch Bastard sword back to main hand
Free: five foot step to M19

stats: Location:M19
HP: 19/19
AC: 18
Saves: +6, +3, -3

[vollmond]

Thag, Turn 8

Move: Move to V-15, drawing sling
Standard: Ready Action
If Roses ends his turn in LoS, fire sling at him, then take a 5-foot step


Turn done.

Statblock:

Position: V-15
Hp: 7/14
AC: 16, Flat-Footed 12, Touch 16 (+4 dex, +1 size, +1 dodge)
AC currently +2 for ferocity
Remaining Consumables:
29 stones

Ferocity 3/6 remaining
(+4 to str/dex, -2 to ranged attacks at greater than 30 ft, can't use cha/int based skills)

[madtinker]

Violent Roses, Rd 8

If I can attack from M18 (with full cover) I first five foot step there.
Free: Switch sword to shield hand (not wielding, just holding)
Move: Draw loaded sling
Standard: Attack opponent
Attack [roll0]
damage[roll1]
Free: Drop sling
Free: Switch sword back to main hand
If I cannot attack from M18, I five foot step there now.

Stats:Location:M18
HP: 19/19
AC: 18
Saves: +6, +3, -3

[vollmond]

You wouldn't be able to attack me from M18, since I would also have total cover.

Note to self: pick up a bunch of slings; that's a great idea.

Thag, Turn 9

Free: Yell, "Come out and fight like a Lesser Svirfneblin, you coward!"
Standard: Ready Action
If Roses moves out of total cover, fire my sling, then take a 5-foot step


Turn done.

Statblock:

Position: V-15
Hp: 7/14
AC: 16, Flat-Footed 12, Touch 16 (+4 dex, +1 size, +1 dodge)
AC currently +2 for ferocity
Remaining Consumables:
29 stones

Ferocity 2/6 remaining
(+4 to str/dex, -2 to ranged attacks at greater than 30 ft, can't use cha/int based skills)

[madtinker]

What is your speed? Why is it not on your character sheet?

Violent Roses, Rd 9
Free: Shout "What, you mean with a long poky stick?"
Five foot step to M19.
Free: Switch sword to shield hand (not wielding, just holding)
Move: Draw loaded sling
Standard: Attack opponent
Attack [roll0]
damage [roll1]
Free: Drop sling
Free: Switch sword back to main hand

Stats:Location:M19
HP: 19/19
AC: 18
Saves: +6, +3, -3

[vollmond]

Hmm oops. My speed is 20, 40 when I'm mounted. I added it to the sheet, too.

My readied action is triggered after you step out (fire sling, then 5-foot step):
Attack: [roll0] (including -2 for ferocity)
Damage: [roll1]

5-foot step to U-15.

Is the rest of your turn the same?

[vollmond]

Sorry this took so long; it's my first crit :-)

Crit confirm: [roll0] edit: damn.
Crit damage: [roll1]

[vollmond]

Oops, add 2 to all of those sling rolls (attack and damage). Forgot to account for ferocity's +2 to str and dex. I believe that turns into a crit confirmed, for 12 total damage?

[madtinker]

Yep, that hits, and my turn is unchanged. Go ahead.

[vollmond]

Thag, Turn 10

Free: Drop sling
Free: Yell, "GRAAAAA!"
Full-round: Charge to O-18
Attack: [roll0]
Damage: [roll1]
Crit Confirm: [roll2]
Crit Damage: [roll3]

Continue move to N-19.

Turn done.

Statblock:

Position: O-18
Hp: 7/14
AC: 16, Flat-Footed 12, Touch 16 (+4 dex, +1 size, +1 dodge)
AC currently +2 for ferocity dex bonus, -2 for charge
Remaining Consumables:
28 stones

Ferocity 1/6 remaining
(+4 to str/dex, -2 to ranged attacks at greater than 30 ft, can't use cha/int based skills)

[madtinker]

On the grounds I wish to remain alive, I did not see you switch from a two to one handed grip on your lance. A the risk of being labelled a nitpicker, I argue that your posted actions from round eight and onward are illegal.

No offense.

[vollmond]

Hmmm I didn't say so explicitly. I'll counter-argue and say that switching my grip is a free action and implied by my doing actions that would normally include it. I'll call for a ref to make a ruling.

No offense taken, btw.

[Lubirio]

If the player wishes to change his round 8 turn to reflect the fact that he switched his grip he may do so. If the second player then decides his stated turn stays as is, there's no harm done. But I think in this case, you wanting to stay alive tinker, you won't do that, but it's up to you to decide:
1. Keep your actions and die.
2. Change your actions solely because you've seen the outcome of the rolls, which is questionable at best...

[HCL]

question: where is 3d8+21 coming from? do you get another +100% damage from spirited charge?

[vollmond]

HCL: yeah, spirited charge adds another multiplier if you charge while mounted
When mounted and using the charge action, you deal double damage with a melee weapon (or triple damage with a lance).

Madtinker - so, are we rewinding to my turn 8?

[madtinker]

Nah, I wouldn't have changed anything. Violent was beaten by a better build. GG

[vollmond]

Ok, GG.

I was worried Thag would be too gimicky to work well.

[Scorer]

High Ref Scorer

Thag (Vollmond) impales Violent Roses and emerges victorious!

[madtinker]

He's not the worst gimmick I've seen. Believe me, there are worse.