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Rainbownaga
2009-11-12, 07:56 PM
A level 3 spell that knocks a target unconscious. It's basically the same as phantasmal killer, except it has only one save and doesn't actually kill the target. Oh, and it's evil, despite doing the almost the same thing just better.

Is this overpowered? Why is this even evil? What is the purpose of dazing a creature for one round only to knock them unconscious in the next?

lvl 1 sharnian
2009-11-12, 08:48 PM
I guess so if they are immune to dazing, then they can cast something to get out of it like a resilient sphere or teleport away.

All in all, a pretty powerful spell

Asbestos
2009-11-12, 09:05 PM
All in all, a pretty powerful spell

Yes, but an evil spell?

In effect its a spell that knocks people unconscious, how is this evil and Finger of Death isn't?

I tend to ignore the 'Evil'/'Good' parts of spells.

Zaq
2009-11-12, 09:11 PM
It's Evil because nearly everything in the BoVD needed to have the [Evil] tag appended to it, even if it really doesn't have any reason to do so. No, it doesn't make sense. It doesn't have to. It's the BoVD. (I still don't understand why friggin' Identify Transgressor is Evil... okay, it has the drug component, but why? Answer: BoVD. Deal with it.)

Dimers
2009-11-12, 09:25 PM
A level 3 spell that knocks a target unconscious. ... Is this overpowered?

Compare it to hold person. I don't know the stats for CotPH, but I'd assume it's a little more useful -- Hold Person can only be cast on humanoids, is mind-affecting, and allows a save every round. Some classes can cast it as a second-level spell; for others, it's third. So a spell that's somewhat more powerful but with the same general intent, as a third-level spell, probably fits okay.


Why is this even evil? What is the purpose of dazing a creature for one round only to knock them unconscious in the next?

It's evil because of fluff. The terrible agony you deliberately cause, yada yada. It doesn't make sense compared with others; few aligned spells do, even explained in the contexts given for BoED and BoVD. That's an opinion you'll see often -- for example, in this recent thread (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=131148) about animate dead.

jiriku
2009-11-12, 09:41 PM
That's comparable in strength to spells like deep slumber, ghoul touch, hold person, or shivering touch. There are plenty of level 2-3 spells (or level 1 spells for that matter) that will knock one or more targets out of a fight.

Rainbownaga
2009-11-12, 09:45 PM
...so it's not that CotPH is terribly broken, just that phantasmal killer sucks.

That pretty much make sense.


As for the daze effect, what would giving the target resistance to fear do? Would giving it to them during the daze effect prevent the unconsciousness?