Neverending Dungeon - Generic

[Tanaric]

The air surrounding you fairly hums with the residue of magic, an aftereffect of the spell that brought you to this place. A quick glance reveals that you are in a cramped, rectangular room, devoid of any life save for yourself. The sound of dripping water can be heard faintly, and the stone walls are slick with moisture. In complete defiance of logic, a torch is already lit, resting in a bracket by the sole door visible in the room.

Map:{table]|A_|B_|C_|D_
1|||||
2||G|||
3|||||
[/table]

There is a door at D-3, east side. Unless otherwise mentioned, all doors are sliding metal.

DM notes:1, 6, 14

[chilepepper]

'Ric (get it, it's short for Generic, ha) stands, stretches, gets pissed, takes note of his inventory, opens the stopper on the flask, pulls the 10' pole out (don't ask), pushes the torch out of it's holder with the pole, extinguishes it (darkvision FTW), casts Mage Armor, then pushes the door open with his (non-conductive because I did my homework) pole.

((how do you want to track mage armor? It's a 2 hour duration.))

stats
HP: 10/10
AC/Touch/FF: 15/11(15)/14 (4 armor, 1 dex)
In hand: 10' Pole // empty
Effects: Mage Armor
Spells: 5/4/1

[Tanaric]

Let's see here... Your pole sets off the web of concealed copper wires on the door, a fact I think you know very well Mr. I Did My Homework By Taking Peeks At The Answer Sheet (:smallwink:).

What's the range of your darkvision?

Also, subtract two minutes for each time you take 20. Subtract a minute every time you enter and exit a room. Seem about right?

[chilepepper]

2 minutes on a take 20 seems right, since it is in essence 20 attempts at something. 1 minute per room is fine too. It seems a bit long, but for ease of tracking, I accept.

My darkvision is the standard 60'.

[Tanaric]

Well, the room timer was so you wouldn't have to track time spent in the halls.

Opening the door reveals a hall running to the north and south.

To the north, it runs for twenty feet before turning west. To the south, it runs for forty feet before turning east.

[chilepepper]

Starting with the square on my side of the door, I prod at and push on each square with the pole before continuing.

I'll head north, stepping over any trip wires.

[Tanaric]

Several questions that may or may not be relevant now or in the future.

How hard are you pushing? Are you exerting enough force to equal or exceed a halfling's weight, or not?

Are you searching five feet or ten feet in front of you?

Are you searching the walls and any ceilings you can reach?

[chilepepper]

10' in front, pushing hard enough, not checking walls and ceilings though I'm looking at them (reactive spot checks but not search checks).

[Tanaric]

You find a tripwire to five feet to the north and five feet to the south of the door you opened. (Surprise!)

At the bend, you see that the hall continues for sixty feet before ending in a northern bend. Forty feet down the hall, a south-running corridor joins with it. Fifty feet down the hall, a north-running corridor joins with it.

[chilepepper]

| |
-> --------------------
|

If it's like that, then I take the first north turn.

[Tanaric]

| |
--------------------<-
|


You're at the arrow. That change anything?

[chilepepper]

Turning south

[Tavar]

Hi! I'll be taking over for your regularly scheduled DM. A couple questions:
do you want to roll all saving throws/skill checks(like listen, spot, etc)?
Would you like yo use a simplifies Initiative system(basically, leave out the die roll. Whoever's modifier is higher goes first)?

You see a long hallway that continues past where you can see.

[chilepepper]

You roll reactive spots and listen, I roll saves, we roll initiative.

[chilepepper]

Continue down the hall.

[Tavar]

After going about a 50 feet you find a trip wire, and manage to not set it off. Another 40 ft down the there's a west bound corridor joining with it, and 10 ft after that the hallway turns east.

[chilepepper]

Take the east.

[Tavar]

Turning, you realize that the hallway only goes 5 feet before turning north. Moving down it, you find a trip wire, and once you reach the turn you can see the corridor continues 20 ft before it intersects with a east bound hallway, and then continues another 20 ft before it turns east itself.

[chilepepper]

Take the second east.

[chilepepper]

...but I look down the first east as I did the previous west hallway (just need to know what I can see within 60').

[Tavar]

The first east is a simple dead end. The second leads to a door.

[chilepepper]

How far down? I'm still going the same way, second east, but I'm trying to map the dungeon.

[chilepepper]

Who's my DM?

[Tavar]

Sorry, missed this one.

The dead end is after only 5ft. The second goes 10 ft, and has a door on the northern side at the end as well.

[chilepepper]

Still waiting on the info on the last west-bound hallway I passed.

Then I'll open the door.

[Tavar]

The western hallway extends past 60ft.

[chilepepper]

Still waiting on the info on the last west-bound hallway I passed.

Then I'll open the door.

..........

[Tavar]

The door is covered with what appear to be tripwires, which you've triggered. Listen check.

[chilepepper]

Can't get to my sheet right now, I think my listen is pretty low, maybe negative. I'll roll a d20 and if it's nowhere near possible making it, we can move forward.

[roll0] +3

[Tavar]

You hear bells, as if ringing on the other side of the door.

[chilepepper]

I'll back up 5' and say "Hello?"

[Tavar]

There's no answer, and the bells stop shortly after you step back.

[chilepepper]

Alright, I'll head back and go down that last westbound hallway.

I'll take the first left turn I come to, if applicable. Any other hallways I pass, I want to look down and know what's within my 60' field of vision.

[Tavar]

At the end of the westbound hallway, you have a choice. the hallway itself turns north for 10ft, then turns west again. On the other hand, in front of you is a door.

[chilepepper]

Listen at the door, then open it with my pole (how I open doors by default) if I hear nothing.

[roll0]

edit: and how long is the hallway to the door?

[Tavar]

The hallway is 65 feet.

Opening the door you see a room that's 15ft long and 10ft wide, with a single torch lighting it, and the door is in the upper right hand corner. In the lower left, you see a man in robes, with glowing blues eyes. He appears to be reading a scroll, and as you open the door he quirks and eyebrow at you.

Initiative:[roll0]

[chilepepper]

I predict he will go first, unless I get a surprise round.

[roll0]

[Tavar]

He casts a spell, and for a moment, the scroll glows with arcane energy. Your move.

[chilepepper]

I need to know his position and exactly what other possessions I can see on him.

[Tavar]

map (http://www.celestine-empire.net/battlegrid/DM.php?sessionID=map).

he has robes and a diadem.

[chilepepper]

Spellcraft [roll0] to identify spell cast.
(that'll identify the spell if it's level 5 or lower)

[Tavar]

It's shield.

[chilepepper]

Baleful Utterance on his robes. DC17 Will or it Shatters. If it Shatters, DC17 Fort or dazed for 1 round and deafened for 10 rounds.

[Tavar]

How'd you get a dc 17?
[roll0]
[roll1]

[Tavar]

Not that it matters. The caster laughs at you're puny magics, and casts a spell of his own.
[roll0]. If it hits, -4 str.

[chilepepper]

10 + 2 (spell level equivalent) + 5 (Cha mod) = 17
Usually I throw ability focus on there to to make it 19, but I needed the feats for healing and HP. It's not the highest level 1 save DC I've had. I remember my DC24 30' cone of cold that entangles and does 1d6(IIRC) damage for 2 rounds, doable every round.

Also, I need clarification on that attack. You said "if it hits" but there's no attack roll. Also, Spellcraft [roll0] to identify.

[Tavar]

Sorry, it's magic missile. Ah, I see. i thought that it was a 1st level equivalent. Also, how'd you get +2 Cha? There aren't that many races that I can think of that give that.

[chilepepper]

There are 4 LA+0 races that give +2 Cha. Star Elf, Hellbred(Spirit), Lesser Aasimar, and Spellscale.

Magic Missle doesn't cause -4 Str.

[Tanaric]

Fell Weaken Magic Missile does, though.

[chilepepper]

Ready an Action to Eldritch Blast if he casts a spell.

[Tavar]

Make your attack, he's going to cast.

[chilepepper]

Ranged Touch Attack [roll0]
Damage [roll1]

5' step east.

edit: crap, please tell me he's casting color spray

[Tavar]

I don't think you can take both a standard action and a free action with the same readied action. In any case, you're move is useless, as the magic missile hits you, dealing
[roll0] damage.

[Tanaric]

5-ft steps are a specific exception and can be included in a readied action.

[Tavar]

Ah, in that case the wizard also follows you out into the hallway.

Edit: also, how do you have 10hp? Warlock gets a d6, and Sorcerer gets a d4.

[chilepepper]

For some reason, my online sheet reverted to a previous version (might have been user error). The stats were listed wrong, I fixed it. When I switched from the original build (warlock/cleric) to this one, I changed the stats to get +3 hp from Con and took slow for an additional +1. That way, I could heal back up to 5hp instead of the previous 4hp with Touch of Healing.

[Tavar]

Ah, yeah, sometimes sheets do that. Well, you're turn.

[chilepepper]

You're map is confusing, I took a 5' step east back down the hallway (to N5), yet you have me listed as being in a wall in M4.

((also, I put the Mage Armor on my sheet, for reference))

[chilepepper]

Ready an Action to Baleful Utterance when he attacks me (spell or otherwise).

[Tavar]

Sorry about that.
Will[roll0]
Fort if necessary[roll1]

If at least the second is successful, cast magic missile again
[roll2]
He's dazed for 1 round.

[chilepepper]

He is dazed for 1 round and deafened for 10 rounds (and naked). Note, that's a 20% spell failure chance for verbal component spells.

This diadem that he's wearing, it wouldn't happen to be shedding a "pure blue-white light" would it?

[Tanaric]

No it wouldn't.

[chilepepper]

I would demand he surrender, but I don't think he'll listen hahaha.

Ready an Action to Blast when he does a standard action.

[Tavar]

He attempts to cast magic missile again. Roll readied action.

[chilepepper]

[roll0] touch attack
[roll1]

[Tavar]

Okay, that misses.
[roll0], 1 equals failed spell.
If not one, take [roll1] damage.

[chilepepper]

Ready the same thing

I assume he'll be casting another spell
[roll0] touch
[roll1]

[Tavar]

Lets see what happens;
Concentration[roll0]

[roll1]

Attack for ray of frost.
[roll2]
[roll]1d3]/roll]
It fails, and he's now at negatives.

[chilepepper]

Detect Magic.

[Tavar]

Nada.text.

[chilepepper]

Pocket the diadem.

Move down the north hall that turns west.

[Tavar]

After you turn west, it goes 20ft, then turns north. After 80 feet, and one tripwire, it turns east for 20ft, then turns south for 70ft, and then turns east for 30ft, branches north, and then has an additional hallway north 10ft later. Both go the to same hallway, though, and the first simply has a dart trap and a tripwire. Both go north for 20ft, then west for 30ft, then north 20, then east 20. Ahead of you is a door, but the hallway does turn north, and continues for more than 60ft. Forty feet down that way, however, you do see a intersection with an eastern and western running corridor.

[chilepepper]

Listen at the door, then go to the intersection. Need to know what I can see north, west, and east.

I edited in the listen, you can roll it for me so I don't have to double post.

[Tavar]

Listen check[roll0]
You don't hear anything in particular.

Once you reach the intersection, you see that the hall continues east for 30ft. At the intersection, it goes east for 10 ft before t-ing north and south. It goes west for 50ft.

[chilepepper]

Listen check[roll0]
You don't hear anything in particular.

Once you reach the intersection, you see that the hall continues east for 30ft. At the intersection, it goes east for 10 ft before t-ing north and south. It goes west for 50ft.

You mean it continues north for 30'?

And are north and west dead ends?

[Tavar]

You're right, I meant north. And sorry, I don't know what I was thinking. For the northern corridor, it then turns east. For the western, it then turns north.

[chilepepper]

I'll head west following the bend north.

[Tavar]

You head north for 30ft, then east for 30ft, and have a door on the southern wall. The hallway continues for 10ft before turning north.

[chilepepper]

Listen at the door, then continue past it.

[roll0]

[Tavar]

You realize that this route will take you out of the dungeon, to the magic shop. You also know that you can go to the shop and return to the floor as much as you like. What do you want to do?

[chilepepper]

Alright, let's go check out that last door.

[Tavar]

You open the door to find an almost completely empty 20ft(n-s) by 30ft room, with the door 10ft from the eastern wall. In the lower left hand corner there is an extremely ornate chest.

[chilepepper]

I'll have the Unseen Servant open the chest, I'll stay in the hall.

[Tavar]

As the servant touches the chest, it vanishes with an audible "pop".

[chilepepper]

West, south, east to the 4 way junction. South. Hallway turns west, and there's a door on the east. Go west to the corner, then have the Unseen Servant open that east-leading door.

[chilepepper]

Bump56789.

[Tavar]

You see a 20ft long room, with a fire in it. The wall is interfering with your vision though, and there might be more.

[chilepepper]

Walk closer to see more, does the fire seem real (heat blowing out, etc.)?

[Tavar]

Yes. How much closer?

[chilepepper]

I'll take it 5' at a time, moving my servant to the north when he's in the way. Ready an Action to B.U. an enemy's wielded item on LoS.

[Tavar]

Roll int.
[roll0]
[roll1]

[chilepepper]

[roll0]
..........

[Tavar]

Even coming within 10ft of the door, you see nothing. What do you do?

[chilepepper]

5' by 5'..

[Tavar]

Will save dc 13.

[chilepepper]

[roll0]
.........................

[Tavar]

As the wave of color washes over you, you are able to resist it's influences. You find yourself faces with 2 humaniods, both flanking the door. Make a spot check.

[chilepepper]

[roll0]
.......................

[Tavar]

[roll0]
.......................
You realize that the one on the north of the door is an elf, and the one on the south has pointy teeth. Your move.

[chilepepper]

A. Who cast the Color Spray?
B. What are they both holding?
C. What is the layout of the room, other than being 20' long, and where is each of them?

[Tavar]

The toothed one cast the spell, and holds a rapier. He is on the north side of the door. The elf is holding a longsword, and has a bow. He is on the south side. The room is 15ft n-s, and there is a fire in the center of the room.

[chilepepper]

Did the toothed one move and then cast, or did my 5' movement cause LoS to be established?

[chilepepper]

Wait, 15' north-south. They were hiding?

[Tavar]

On either side of the door. And your movement caused it LoS to be established.

[chilepepper]

There is alot wrong with that.

First, LoS would have been established as soon as the door was opened. Unless they were hiding, which they weren't.

If they were hiding (and beating my Spot check each round), then my movement wouldn't have granted LoS until I stepped into the room.

If my spot check beat their hide check, it either happened during my movement, in which case I would have a standard action; or during their actions, which means my Readied action would have triggered.

If my spot didn't beat their hide, but they stopped hiding, it would have been on their turn which would have triggered my readied action either immediately before or immediately after the Color Spray depending on what they did when they stopped hiding.

[Tavar]

Ah, but what if they had a readied action as well? And their Initiative was higher than yours.... which it was.

Plus, readied actions don't work like you think they do.

Plus, until the spell went off, total cover/total concealment, which obviate the need for hide checks.

[chilepepper]

Believe me, I know readied actions in and out. If there's something specific you find wrong about what I've said, please point it out.

If they had readied actions, it all depends on the stipulations of their triggers.

Finally, unless there's something you haven't mentioned, there's no way both of them could have total cover or concealment. Arguably, if the door opened in, one of them could be behind it, but then I still wouldn't have LoS to that one now. The other one can't have total cover or concealment.

[Tavar]

Right. They don't have total cover/concealment now. But, until you got close enought, they did. Once you established LoS, the readied actions went off, in initiative order, which is why only one of them has gone. At the moment, it's your action.

[chilepepper]

They can't have had total cover or total concealment at any point. If the room is only 15' north/south, and the door is in the middle of that 15', then they NEVER had total cover or total concealment. Do you need me to draw you a diagram illustrating that.

Secondly, you are the one who doesn't understand readied actions. "The readied actions went off, in initiative order." That isn't how readied actions work. At any given time it is one of the three of our turns and that person CAN NOT have a readied action, period.

Also, you said I got hit with a color spray, saved, and then it was my turn. If it became my turn after the color spray, then clearly it wasn't a readied action. You can't just say "what if they had a readied action?". If they're readied action is triggered, I will know it's a readied action. If you'll just honestly answer what they were doing from before I opened the door, then I can explain how things work and I'll even show you the rules and explain why they work that way.

[Tavar]

Both of you had readied actions that went "when I see enemy, do X". You walked into their line of sight. Now both parties can see each other. So, his readied action triggers. Now, it's your turn to do something with your standard action besides moving, as you've already done that.

And, what? Of course they can have concealment. The room is 20ft long and 15ft wide, with the door in the middle of the 5ft. They are on either side of the door. You have neither line of sight or line of effect to either opponent when you start moving down the hall. Or, can you see through walls? In that case, sorry, I wasn't aware.

[chilepepper]

If I had an ability that let me see through walls, then I'd say "Normally you'd be right, BUT I can see through walls." Instead I said you are wrong. Did you not, at any point in this conversation think, "Maybe I am wrong, maybe I should double check the rules"?


Total Cover

If you don’t have line of effect to your target he is considered to have total cover from you.


Total Concealment

If you have line of effect to a target but not line of sight he is considered to have total concealment from you.

Look, I have LoS and LoE.

http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii295/shaun_rp/LoS.jpg

[Tavar]

Okay, Mea Culpa. Umm...well then, starting from 30ft away, we'll do spot checks. To keep the insanity down, they'll be taking 10, which gives them a modifier of 15 for the elf 20 for the other. Please roll all spot checks until you reach 15 ft.

[chilepepper]

They don't need to roll spot checks because I'm not hiding, nor could I since I don't have cover or concealment.

[roll0] 30'
[roll1] 25'
[roll2] 20'
[roll3] 15'

[Tavar]

Those are their hide rolls. After going 5 ft, you see an elf, using the description I already gave. Assuming you BU, please specify the item you target:
Will:[roll0]
Fort[roll1]

[chilepepper]

This was the original discription of the elf.


The elf is holding a longsword, and has a bow. He is on the south side.

The sword is in his hand, I BU the sword.

edit: The elf is on which side of the door? Post 99 and 101 conflict.

[Tavar]

Northern side. What's the fort save DC?

[chilepepper]

17, he failed.

[Tavar]

Will save dc 13, please.

[chilepepper]

[roll0]
.................

[Tavar]

Ouch, natural 2. You're unconscious for [roll0] rounds.

[Tavar]

Hmmm.....
You take [roll0] damage. Fort save dc 10+damage or die.
Next round, You take [roll1] damage. Fort save dc 10+damage or die.

[chilepepper]

What from?

[Tavar]

Coup de grace's from a dagger.

[chilepepper]

No, I mean what knocked me unconscious?

[Tavar]

Ah, it was a spell. Color spray if you must know.

[chilepepper]

Which has a range of 15'. I am unaffected.

[Tavar]

unless the opponent uses it's move speed to get within range. Considering that you can't do anything against it, i did neglect to mention that fact.

[chilepepper]

If the opponent moved, I would have seen it and you should have told me. Since you didn't tell me, I can only assume he didn't move. Can I start doing things without telling you?

[Tavar]

Sorry, I didn't realize that I needed to okay my monster's movements with you. Especially since it was his turn, you can't do anything. After the save, I would have described what happened, anyways.

[chilepepper]

Sorry, I didn't realize that I needed to okay my monster's movements with you. Especially since it was his turn, you can't do anything. After the save, I would have described what happened, anyways.


You didn't, you went right on with coup de grace, and I wouldn't have seen him move after the color spray, so why ask me to save, then take two more rounds, before you tell me I saw him move?

You're monster cast color spray. Then when I mentioned it wouldn't be in range, you changed the monster's turn to include movement.

It's no different if I say, oh, you color sprayed, well my ready action trigger was actually "when I get color sprayed" so I BU him instead.

How about instead of color spraying me, you make it so there was an open pit, out in the open, that I fell into.

You don't have to OK your monsters turns, but you have to tell me what my character experiences. And you really can't just back up and change things whenever you want.

[Tavar]

I didn't include it at that point, but that's because it really wasn't necessary. You couldn't do anything, and you're pretty much assured to be dead. Sorry for not going into total detail, I guess you'll garnish my wages.

[chilepepper]

It's true, I couldn't have changed anything. You are the one who volunteered to DM, if you aren't will to actually do it, why waste players time? It is your job to describe what the characters experience to the players. You STILL haven't done that.

You've already screwed up the LoS/LoE rules. You screwed up spell range rules. Now you're screwing up Coup de Grace rules. You're right, I'm assured to be dead because I signed up for a DnD 3.5 game and I ended up playing in a "I'm going to make things up until the player is dead" game.

[Tavar]

How am I screwing up the spell or the coup de grace rules?

And yes, I screwed something up. Wow, I'm not perfect, what a surprise.

[chilepepper]

You screwed up the spell range because you hit me with a 15' range spell from 25' away. You now say he actually moved but you still haven't told me how far.

[Douglas]

He neglected to mention explicitly that someone moved when the details of it really didn't matter. That hardly seems worth the fuss you're raising about this.

[chilepepper]

First of all, the details do matter, but I can't count on things not being retconned to go exactly the way the DM wants it to, despite the rules, so I'm trying to get all the information I should have gotten originally before I point out more errors.

Second of all, I fail to see why it's your place to voice an opinion in a game thread in which you are neither a player nor a DM/GM.

[Tanaric]

Douglas is a player with experience on this floor, Tavar is your DM, the monster had movement available, you failed your will save.

The end. You're not the first to get a death by color spray, and I doubt very much you'll be the last. It's not worth the fuss.

If you need more of an explanation than that: it's a monster with enough intelligence to know that its spell has a 15 foot range, and wouldn't cast it just to give you a show. There's no excuse for it to do so, and its tactics are outlined very clearly for Tavar.

If you want to submit a new character, by all means, go ahead. If you'd rather have me as your DM, that's fine too. But Tavar is doing me a service by helping out, and I'll thank you not to disparage that fact over slight misunderstandings. Yes, it's good that you pointed out the proper rules, but it's not okay to all but mock him.

Nobody likes losing, but it's no excuse for bad manners.

[chilepepper]

All I want to know is the movement I should have been told about originally. How many times do I have to ask?

It makes a difference, but I guess just like the LoS/LoE, I have to spell it out.

If the monster moves to 15' and then color sprays, then it has to move again next round to be within melee range. Since Coup de Grace is a full round action, it is only going to get one before I wake up, NOT TWO.

If it moved within melee range and then color sprayed, I'd get an AoO.

Now, if I had been color sprayed and died, there would be no reason for 'bad manners'. The fact that I've had tell my DM he was wrong about LoS SEVERAL times and finally draw him a picture instead of him looking up the rules, and now I have to ask SEVERAL times for the description I should have gotten originally SEVERAL times is just plain ridiculous.

[Tanaric]

Very well. In my opinion, he moved to the range of his spell, color sprayed you, and then you fell unconscious. He's 15 feet away.

He was also being generous with those CDGs I think, since one should have actually been a bowshot to the face for [roll0]. <-- Whoo I fail at damage rolls forever. Not that it matters.

There's the movement for you. Do you have some way for it to make a difference?

[chilepepper]

The elf couldn't CDG me. He was dazed for one round, would have to draw his bow the next round and move to be adjacent, then I'd wake up. Agreed?

[Tanaric]

Ah. I should really have read the entire section. That looks to be correct, so the actual order of events would have been something else entirely.

Blind/stunned: [roll0]

[roll1] [roll2] [roll3] [roll4] [roll5] [roll6]

[roll7] [roll8] [roll9] [roll10] [roll11] [roll12]

There there might be more following this.

Your AC is, I believe, 5, for the first two attacks. 14 -5 dex, -2 blind, -2 stunned. You then regain your dex bonus, bringing your AC up to 10.

[Tanaric]

They should have one more round to fire off attacks, but I think twenty seventeen damage is enough to do what they tried to do in the first place.

Do you have any issues with this order of events?

[chilepepper]

Is it my turn now?

[Tanaric]

Not yet. You see that the one with the teeth is standing next to you with his rapier, while the elf is in the doorway with his bow.

[roll0] rapier vs stunned AC, for [roll1]
[roll2] longbow vs stunned AC + soft cover, for [roll3]

2 unconscious/blind/stunned + 2 blind/stunned + 1 stunned.

It should be your turn now.

[chilepepper]

There is yet another mistake, but at least this time it ACTUALLY doesn't make a difference. I am dead and all it took was for Tavar to mess up three times in a row. Sucks that I made the Will save originally, before I realized how messed up everything was.

I hope he's a little less bull-headed about it in the future.