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Burley
2009-11-13, 09:14 AM
In the previous session, my beguiler Charm Monster'd a sorta... pseudonatural dire boar. This gave the effect of having the boar not attack us.
The boar ended up eating the dead ogres who were on it's "team" and then is preparing to take a nap.
Well, we're about to be in a big fight. Like... maybe swarmed. And, I want to use this piggy to my advantage.

I have been able to pet the pig, but I have no Handle Animal skill nor speak with animal abilities. Any ideas on how to take this boar by the tusks and make it murder some baddies for me?
(Also, I'd really like to try to make it a permanent pet, even if it is foul tempered. Any way to train an animal without Handle Animal checks?)

Starscream
2009-11-13, 10:06 AM
I suppose it depends on what you try to do with it. Being charmed, it thinks of you as its "friend". What that means to a creature with animal intelligence is vague, but I would rule that it will behave as a loyal pet would for the duration.

So while you can't order it around (the spell won't give it the ability to understand you or know tricks it hasn't been trained), it will probably fight to defend you from any attackers. And as long as you are gentle, you could probably crate it up and bring it with you. Just treat it nice enough so that it doesn't get a chance to resist the spell.

Optimystik
2009-11-13, 10:08 AM
You can command charmed creatures via pantomiming as well as speech. Try using basic charades, like lowering your head and raising your fingers alongside it (mimicking tusks or horns) and pawing the ground with your feet to tell it to charge, or cower back from an approaching attacker as though terrified so that it leaps to your defense. Ask your DM if you can make more complicated gestures by rolling Bluff checks; if you succeed, it understands you.

Alternatively, you can make an illusory copy of the boar (using Silent Image or similar) and simply have the illusion do what you want the boar to do while you point at it. Pseudonatural creatures are smarter than the base version (like Magical Beasts), so he might pick up on it. You can even have the illusion devolve into Chthulian Horror when you want the boar to use its Alternate Form ability.

Finally, you can use your illusions to make the enemies look like something it would eat. Put a figment of a squirrel or fat grouse on the enemy's shoulder, or some tasty roots/pheasant eggs at his feet. The boar simply regards you and your allies as friends, its behavior towards the enemy will be unchanged.

For making it a familiar, I would just keep casting Charm Monster. It lasts for days, so you can keep the pig charmed pretty much indefinitely.

hewhosaysfish
2009-11-13, 10:11 AM
The boar regards you as a trusted friend. If it sees anything attacking you, it should totally try to crush them. (A less ornery beast than a dire boar may try to flee but boars are supposedly pretty foul-tempered anyway and dire ones are obviously more so).

Training it, though, will need Handle Animal. Maybe see if you can keep it charmed until you find an NPC animal trainer with sufficient guts to tackle a huge, betentacled pig.

jiriku
2009-11-13, 10:13 AM
If another character in the party can cast speak with animals (perhaps from a scroll), you can have a party member act as an interpreter for you.

Optimystik
2009-11-13, 10:15 AM
The actual Handle Animal skill will not work - pseudonatural creatures are Outsiders. His best bet is to rely on the spell, which lasts days/level. Speak with Animals may run into the same problem, depending on the DM's lenience.

Darrin
2009-11-13, 10:18 AM
In the previous session, my beguiler Charm Monster'd a sorta... pseudonatural dire boar.

I have been able to pet the pig, but I have no Handle Animal skill nor speak with animal abilities. Any ideas on how to take this boar by the tusks and make it murder some baddies for me?
(Also, I'd really like to try to make it a permanent pet, even if it is foul tempered. Any way to train an animal without Handle Animal checks?)

If it is indeed a Pseudonatural Dire Boar, then Handle Animal wouldn't work anyway. Pseudonatural creatures have a minimum Int of 3. Int of 3 means two things... you no longer use Handle Animal to influence its behavior, you use Diplomacy (per the DMG, under intelligent mounts, I think). And second, it understands at least one language. If the stat block doesn't specify, then the default language is Common.

There are several ways you could pick it up as a permanent pet. The easiest is the Leadership feat, and take it as a Cohort. Determining the ECL might be a little tricky, since the MM entry for dire boar doesn't list a level adjustment... and neither does the pseudonatural template. As a 7HD animal, pseudonatural adds true strike 1/day, DR 5/magic, and some energy resistance. Hmm... maybe call it +2 LA, for a 9th level cohort?

There's also the Wild Cohort (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031118a) feat on the WotC website. A boar is available as a 7th level Druid animal companion, so you could pick one up at 10th level as a Wild Cohort (character level -3 = 7th level Druid AC). This is somewhat problematic since the Pseudonatural template kicks up its Int to 3, so you shouldn't be using Handle Animal on it or directing it to use tricks, but talk to your DM and see if he'd rather handle it that way. If you go that route, then you may want to consider picking up some levels of Silverwood Arcanist (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/re/20031209a).

Another option would be Obtain Familiar and Improved Familiar. However, I'm not sure what level it would be available at... 7HD is pretty strong for a familiar. Hmmm.... 13th or 15th maybe?

bosssmiley
2009-11-13, 10:20 AM
In the previous session, my beguiler Charm Monster'd a sorta... pseudonatural dire boar. This gave the effect of having the boar not attack us.
The boar ended up eating the dead ogres who were on it's "team" and then is preparing to take a nap.
Well, we're about to be in a big fight. Like... maybe swarmed. And, I want to use this piggy to my advantage.

I have been able to pet the pig, but I have no Handle Animal skill nor speak with animal abilities. Any ideas on how to take this boar by the tusks and make it murder some baddies for me?

Tell tentaclepig that the baddies are threatening the forest. :smallwink:

http://www.genjipress.com/img/dvd/2001/B00003CXBK-1.jpg

Burley
2009-11-13, 11:41 AM
All great ideas.
I actually have already been toying with the idea of just having a giant steak with stick arms and legs dancing around, perhaps with a tophat and cane. Like, the Mr. Peanut of meat.
Thinking now, I'm lead to beleive that the thing understands Giant, since it cowered when a giant yelled about all the noise. Good thing I know that language.
PS- Does an INT boosting item allow me bonus languages known?

Optimystik
2009-11-13, 11:47 AM
All great ideas.
I actually have already been toying with the idea of just having a giant steak with stick arms and legs dancing around, perhaps with a tophat and cane. Like, the Mr. Peanut of meat.

Rather than have it dance around, have it wiggle its flank enticingly, or throw illusory rocks at the pig (conveniently "missing") to taunt it into attacking. Alternatively, just fill the enemy's pockets with illusory steak, and use major image to add the smell.


Thinking now, I'm lead to beleive that the thing understands Giant, since it cowered when a giant yelled about all the noise. Good thing I know that language.

Wouldn't you cower if a giant started yelling? Doesn't mean you understand Giant. :smalltongue:


PS- Does an INT boosting item allow me bonus languages known?

No - per the SRD, an INT bonus only determines the languages of a starting character.

Clementx
2009-11-13, 11:53 AM
Psuedonatural makes the creature an Outsider with Int 3. You do not use Handle Animal with it for two reason, then. It has the intelligence of a toddler, meaning you can talk to it simply and directly, should you share a language. It has to understand something, and by RAW that is Common. A sensible DM would assign it a bizarre one, like Undercommon, Abyssal, or Daelkyr. Barring that, pantomime would work for the equivalent for Handle Animal tricks, without a check.

Kulture
2009-11-13, 01:07 PM
Actually, Pseudo-natural is very similiar/identical to Half far-spawn, if I remember correctly.
And it's a +4 LA.

Moriato
2009-11-13, 01:33 PM
Actually, Pseudo-natural is very similiar/identical to Half far-spawn, if I remember correctly.
And it's a +4 LA.

I don't think so. I don't know what the LA would be, it doesn't give one, but it would have to be waaaay more than +4. The Pseudonatural template (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/pseudonaturalCreature.htm) gives a +35 natural armor bonus, DR of 5-15/EPIC, Str +22, Con +10, Dex +10, Wisdom +10, and Intelligence at least 3, among other things.

Vizzerdrix
2009-11-13, 01:37 PM
I don't think so. I don't know what the LA would be, it doesn't give one, but it would have to be waaaay more than +4. The Pseudonatural template (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/pseudonaturalCreature.htm) gives a +35 natural armor bonus, DR of 5-15/EPIC, Str +22, Con +10, Dex +10, Wisdom +10, and Intelligence at least 3, among other things.

Wrong one. Look in the back of Complete Arcane.

Optimystik
2009-11-13, 01:37 PM
I don't think so. I don't know what the LA would be, it doesn't give one, but it would have to be waaaay more than +4. The Pseudonatural template (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/epic/monsters/pseudonaturalCreature.htm) gives a +35 natural armor bonus, DR of 5-15/EPIC Str +22, Con +10, Dex +10, Wisdom +10, and Intelligence at least 3, among other things.

Wrong one. The Pseudonatural template in question is the one from Complete Arcane, not the Epic Level Handbook/SRD.

hamishspence
2009-11-13, 01:38 PM
There are two versions.

The weak version, in Tome and Blood, reprinted in 3.5 in Complete Arcane.

And the strong version, in Epic Handbook.

Here, it appears we are speaking of the weak version.

EDIT: Ninjaed.

sofawall
2009-11-13, 01:45 PM
There are two versions.

The weak version, in Tome and Blood, reprinted in 3.5 in Complete Arcane.

And the strong version, in Epic Handbook.

Here, it appears we are speaking of the weak version.

EDIT: Ninjaed.

Technically I think the Comp. Arcane version takes precedence, as it is the most recent.

Optimystik
2009-11-13, 01:45 PM
The ELH version should be errataed to Far-Spawn template, and then a line added: "Far-Spawns are treated as pseudonatural for any purposes and effects that depend on creature type."

Leaving the CA version as the only one called "pseudonatural."

hamishspence
2009-11-13, 01:48 PM
I'd have called it "star-spawn" since that is referenced in Dragons of Faerun- the Imaskari having created an artifact scepter that opens gates to "the realms of the star-spawn".

Telonius
2009-11-13, 01:48 PM
No time to check right now, but doesn't the Alienist PrC get something like this as a cohort?

sofawall
2009-11-13, 01:50 PM
No time to check right now, but doesn't the Alienist PrC get something like this as a cohort?

Their wizard familiar gains the template, I think, and their summons gain it, I think.

hamishspence
2009-11-13, 01:51 PM
sort of- your familiar, at 5th level, becomes pseudonatural.

From 1st level though, all your summoned creatures are pseudonatural.

Optimystik
2009-11-13, 01:52 PM
No time to check right now, but doesn't the Alienist PrC get something like this as a cohort?

Their existing familiar gets the template at level 5. All of their summon monster summons get it at first level. The benefits are pretty handy, even watered down.

Bah! Ninjas!

EDIT: The PrC is also 10/10 casting too, so not a bad choice for a summon-minded caster.

sofawall
2009-11-13, 01:54 PM
Holy crap, I both remembered correctly and ninja'd!

This is my lucky day!

Darrin
2009-11-13, 02:14 PM
PS- Does an INT boosting item allow me bonus languages known?

Pearl of Speech. MIC p. 118, 600 GP. And the really wacky part is you can give it to your dire boar cohort, allowing it to speak, activate magic items, etc.

Myshlaevsky
2009-11-13, 02:15 PM
You must use the opportunity to say, "That'll do, pig. That'll do."

Once, at least.