PDA

View Full Version : Races in 3.5 [PEACH]



Iferus
2009-11-13, 10:10 AM
Preface

A while back there was a thread that inspired me: it described a system of genetic traits and cultural traits for races that would develop while gaining levels. First of all: can anyone help me find this? Kaihaku (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=120331) did that. It was never finished, and a bit too complex for my taste. Frog Dragon (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=104861) did a piece on half- templates too, and to fix those bugs I first proposed a dominant-recessive system.

Anyway, since then I've seen some threads on halfbreeds and races in general.
ShadowsGrnEyes (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129463)' adds more racial features and works on a half-anything system.
Xallace (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=130932) has been working on racial features that are not cultural (Dodge bonus vs giants? Not genetic).

Now, I really like Xallace's work. His races are stronger than the core version, but at least they do not incorporate penalties that harm the potential of certain character builds. Also, they provide a unique starting point for my own take of races.

The Idea

In my view, every race will have racial and cultural features. Having been brought up in a different society will teach your character their cultural features, while your racial features remain. Halfbreeds get some of their racial features from one parent and some of the other; this is represented by a dominant and a subordinate set of features. Halfbreed races get one set of each type which together form the racial features. The offspring of a halfbreed with a race that is not one of his parents' will always be mongrelfolk.
These halfbreed rules only work for humanoids and monsterous humanoids.

Dominant traits are the best of the race's traits, the greatest penalty, its type, speed and size. Small creatures will have powerful build (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/monsters/halfGiant.htm) as a dominant trait and slight build (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a) as a subordinate trait; combing these two traits will cancel them out.

Example: Dwarves
Racial Features:

Humanoid (Dwarf)
Medium Size
25-foot (5 square) Base Land Speed
+2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom at 1st level
Dwarves gain a +2 racial bonus to Appraise and Sense Motive checks.
Darkvision: Dwarves can see up to 60 feet in conditions of absolute darkness.
Enduring: Any effect that would render a dwarf fatigued has no effect, and any effect that would render a dwarf exhausted instead renders him fatigued. If the dwarf is already fatigued when affected by an effect that would cause exhaustion, the dwarf becomes exhausted as normal.
Stable: Dwarves gain a +4 bonus against Trip and Bull Rush attempts.
Unwinded: Dwarves can move at their full speed while wearing medium or heavy armor, or while carrying a medium or heavy load.
Light Sensitivity: Dwarves are naturally subterranean creatures, and as such have difficulty handling abrupt changes in light. If a dwarf is suddenly exposed to bright light (such as the sun or that produced by the Daylight prayer), the character is blinded for one round, and takes a -2 penalty to Attack Rolls for 1 minute. Slow exposure to bright light does not cause this discomfort.

Cultural Traits:

Cultural skills (http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=129785)
Stonecunning (see PHB p.15)
+1 racial bonus on attacks versus Orcs and Goblinoids.
-1 racial penalty on attacks in aquatic envorionments - Dwarves are just not comfortable with the sea and things associated with it. Fairytales and the lack of firm footing hamper their fighting ability.
+4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against monsters of the Giant type.
Weapon Familiarity: Exotic weapons with "Dwarven" in the name may be treated as martial weapons.
Speak Language: Dwarven.
Distrust: When dealing with non-dwarven people, the character gets a -2 racial penalty to Sense Motive, Bluff and Diplomacy checks and a -4 racial penalty to Gather Information due to prejudice and general mistrust.

Halfbreeds:

Dominant Racial Features:
Humanoid (Dwarf)
Medium Size
25-foot (5 square) Base Land Speed
+2 Constitution
Light Sensitivity
Unwinded
Darkvision
+2 racial bonus to Sense Motive checks.
Subordinate Racial Features:
Dwarven Blood: For all effects related to race, this character is treated as a dwarf.
+2 Wisdom
Stable
Enduring
Darkvision
+2 racial bonus to Appraise checks


Every race will have its own cultural traits; also, there will be cultural traits for mixed races depending on regions. Most subraces can be made with cultural traits only.

Conclusion

The general idea is to rebalance all races with a level adjustment of 1 or less to this standard. The goals I tried to meet were a stronger feeling of race and origin and to be able to create halfbreed races and new cultures easily.
The CR at low level needs to be redefined slightly, but other than that, this should function as a full replacement of the race system in standard DnD 3.5.
What do you think about this?

Book Wyrm
2009-11-13, 05:26 PM
I like the idea of dividing up the character race stats into racial and cultural. It reflects the real life idea of nature vs nurture, genetics vs learned behavior.

I'm not so certain giving stats for how to make half breeds is as necessary. At the risk of sounding like a bigot, there are some races that just shouldn't mix, like orcs and gnomes for instance.

This should also eliminate the need to stat out every breed of elf and all the environmental race versions. One trait called Desert born eliminates the need for that.

My one question is how many traits does a character receive. I'm assuming they would receive all of the listed Racial traits, since a dwarf is a dwarf is a dwarf. But how many cultural traits would they get? And for half breeds, do they get one set of dominant traits for half their lineage, and then the recessive traits for the other half. How many and which cultural traits could they choose?

Just some questions to try and help flesh out the mechanics your idea.

Iferus
2009-11-13, 07:17 PM
Basically, you get three sets of abilities. If you are of pure blood, then the dominant and subordinate set together form your racial abilities. Halfbloods have to choose to be more like one of their parents - this will be his dominant set of racial abilities. Of every halfbreed, there will be two types.

The third set is the cultural traits. You can only have one set of traits; this can either be based on region (which will be the only way for humans), or it can be linked to a race. A character will get the Dwarven cultural traits when growing up with traditional dwarves. Growing up in an abandoned Dwarven fortress will develop a "mountain" culture (which might resemble the Dwarven culture in a couple of ways).

Your Desert-born example is exactly what I mean. All people in deserts have to adapt to draught and extreme elements, and they will all be more nomadic than their cousins in a more humid continental climate. Those elves will not care for the good standards of the lords in the old forests. In a way, they'll have much more in common with the humans and halflings they meet at oases.

In this system you could be a human from the farmland, a half elf-half goblin that grew up with dwarves or perhaps a gnome that grew up by the cliffs of the stormy sea.



And about your comment of not mixing races: I guess I would agree. But then again, I run pretty dark campaigns. Suppression, racism, rape and genocide are all very real in my game world. An orcgnome that grows up to avenge his crushed mother's miserable life is a very dramatic plot hook or even a very intense character (that would require DM approval).

Iferus
2009-11-14, 07:20 AM
So here's a list of cultures that will probably cover all of the subraces of the player races. Simply pick the culture that applies most to the character. A character of draconic heiritage that has lived as a slave to an earth elemental in a coastal region will simply have to pick whatever has affected his youth most. In this case, my bet would be on the slavery part.

Races:

Dwarven
Elven
Halfling
Gnome
Raptorian
Goliath
Mongrelfolk
Orc
Kobold
Goblin
Gnoll
Etc- anything that has its own racial culture. Goblinoids will typically share their goblin culture, whereas humans don't have a distinctive culture and will typically go for an urban or rural culture instead.


Born under influence of others:


Slaveborn
Draconic
for cultures based around elementals or their planes:
Fire
Water
Earth
Air


Born in a region:


Urban
Rural
Frost
Desert
Wood
Highland
Mountain
Deep
Marsh
Coastal
Seaboard


Isolated cultures:


Decadent
Primitive


Elemental, draconic and psionic stuff can be added as a template to the racial features as well.

Ashtagon
2009-11-14, 07:39 AM
# Coastal
# Seaboard

What do you see as being the difference between these two?

Iferus
2009-11-14, 10:57 AM
A great example of a seaboard culture can be found in the movie Waterworld. In D&D, they will have a lot of buisiness with aquatic creatures and maritime monsters. The Hadozee (stormwrack) are a race that perhaps don't even need a racial culture because the seaboard culture fits them so well.

A typical coastal culture would be medieval Scandinavia. Lots of fishing, quite a bit of boating but still very tied to the homeland. A coastal culture in D&D might have trouble with the evil aquatic races raiding their supplies while they trade with both sailors and settlements more inland. Archipelagos without large harbors will typically have a coastal culture. From Stormwrack again: the Darfellan are a coastal culture that might not even need a racial culture.

Milskidasith
2009-11-14, 06:08 PM
Seems interesting, although it's probably possible to munchkin this out once it's done. Still, it's better than the terrible half-X races.

Xallace
2009-11-14, 06:19 PM
That dwarf looks familiar. :smalltongue:

Hmm. The primary / secondary trait idea is a good one. Maybe allow the dominant side to have one less racial trait and one of the skill bonuses, and add/remove accordingly from the subordinate side. So you get a combination of appropriate skills, and you'd be more half- than "X with a dash of Y."

Iferus
2009-11-15, 03:10 AM
That dwarf looks familiar. :smalltongue:

Hmm. The primary / secondary trait idea is a good one. Maybe allow the dominant side to have one less racial trait and one of the skill bonuses, and add/remove accordingly from the subordinate side. So you get a combination of appropriate skills, and you'd be more half- than "X with a dash of Y."

Jup :)

I mentioned in your thread it was perfect for what I had in mind for some time, and I credited you in the preface ;)
Do you like the addition of cultural traits? It allows for a very rich statting of a character's background.


I'll keep the comment about dominant/subordinate traits in mind; I'm going to see what feels appropriate when I stat the most difficult one of all: the human!


Seems interesting, although it's probably possible to munchkin this out once it's done. Still, it's better than the terrible half-X races.


I'm going to make/adapt some more races and cultures, and then I'll need you guys to prevent the major munchkinness :)

Iferus
2009-11-15, 12:28 PM
So these are the base races made by Xallace divided in a dominant-subordinate couple. Note that I introduced a "partial base land speed". Base land speed is the sum of two partial speeds.
Any thoughts on balance?



Base Races

Humans

Humanoid (Human)
Medium Size
30-Foot (6 square) Base Land Speed
Humans gain a +2 bonus to any one skill, chosen at 1st level
+2 Bonus to any single ability score, chosen at 1st level.
+4 Skill Points at 1st Level, +1 per level afterwards
Humans gain a bonus feat at 1st level. You must meet all requirements for the feat to take it.
Only Human: Humans must choose one flaw from the General Flaw List (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/buildingCharacters/characterFlaws.htm). Humans do not gain a bonus feat for this flaw, but it does not count against the limit of two flaws at 1st level.

Dwarves

Humanoid (Dwarf)
Medium Size
25-foot (5 square) Base Land Speed
+2 Constitution, +2 Wisdom at 1st level
Dwarves gain a +2 racial bonus to Appraise and Sense Motive checks.
Darkvision: Dwarves can see up to 60 feet in conditions of absolute darkness.
Enduring: Any effect that would render a dwarf fatigued has no effect, and any effect that would render a dwarf exhausted instead renders him fatigued. If the dwarf is already fatigued when affected by an effect that would cause exhaustion, the dwarf becomes exhausted as normal.
Stable: Dwarves gain a +4 bonus against Trip and Bull Rush attempts.
Unwinded: Dwarves can move at their full speed while wearing medium or heavy armor, or while carrying a medium or heavy load.
Light Sensitivity: Dwarves are naturally subterrainian creatures, and as such have difficulty handling abrupt changes in light. If a dwarf is suddenly exposed to bright light (such as the sun or that produced by the Daylight prayer), the character is blinded for one round, and takes a -2 penalty to Attack Rolls for 1 minute. Slow exposure to bright light does not cause this discomfort.

Elves

Humanoid (Elf)
Medium Size
35-Foot (7 square) Base Land Speed
Elves gain a +2 racial bonus to Spot and Listen checks.
+2 Dexterity, +2 Intelligence at 1st level.
Trance: Elves do not sleep, but instead enter a trance. Four hours of trancing is equivalent to eight hours of sleep for the purposes of healing and rest. In addition, elves are immune to Sleep effects.
Athletic Finesse: Elves may choose to use their Dexterity modifier in place of their Strength modifier on Climb, Jump, and Swim checks.
Combat Finesse: Elves are considered to have the Weapon Finesse and Dodge feats for the purpose of meeting prerequisites, though they do not gain the benefits of those feats. An elf who takes the Weapon Finesse feat also considers any weapon with "Elven" in the title to be a martial weapon. An elf who acquires the Dodge feat gains a +1 dodge bonus to AC at all times, instead of against a single target.
Enhanced Senses: Elves roll twice on Spot and Listen checks and take the higher result.
Delicate: Elven musculature is designed for motion, not for outwards force. Elves are considered to be one size category smaller in any situation where it would be disadvantageous to them, except in terms of weapon use and reach.

Gnomes

Humanoid (Gnome)
Small Size
20-foot (4 square) Base Land Speed
+2 Constitution +2 Intelligence
Gnomes gain a +2 racial bonus to Knowledge (arcana) and Spellcraft checks
Quick Learner: If a gnome fails a saving throw against an effect, the gnome gains a +1 bonus on her saving throws against that effect for the rest of the encounter (or five minutes). Bonuses stack up to an amount equal to the gnome's intelligence modifier (minimum +1).
If a gnome misses on an attack roll against a creature, then the character gains a +1 bonus with similar attacks (melee weapon attacks, melee touch attacks, ranged weapon attacks, ranged touch attacks, natural weapons) against that target. This bonus stacks up to an amount equal to the gnome's Intelligence modifier. These bonuses remain for the rest of the encounter (or five minutes).
Patterned Scanning: Gnomes may choose to use thier Intelligence modifier instead of their Wisdom modifier on Spot and Listen checks. Gnomes may may make Spot and Listen checks once per round as free actions.
See Through Deceit: Gnomes gain a +4 bonus on saving throws against illusion effects.
Racial Inattentiveness: Gnome attention spans are short, a side effect of their continual scanning for minute changes in the surroundings. When using the Concentration skill, Gnomes must roll twice and take the worse result. In addition, gnomes must beat a DC20 Concentration check to Take 20 on an action. They must roll twice on this skill check as well.

Halflings

Humanoid (Halfling)
Small Size
25-foot (5 sqaure) Base Land Speed
+2 Dexterity +2 Charisma
Halflings gain a +2 racial bonus on Diplomacy and Tumble checks
Lucky: Halflings may re-roll any single d20 roll, once per day.
Personal Force: Halflings may choose to use their Charisma modifier on Will saves in place of their Wisdom modifier.
Diplomatic Finesse: Halflings can make Diplomacy checks in half of the time noted in the Skills chapter.
Group Tactics: When a halfling uses the Aid Another action, she grants a +3 bonus instead of a +2. Halflings gain a +1 bonus on attack rolls and Will Saves when adjacent to at least one ally.
Social Creature: Halflings are definitely group creatures, and when left alone they suffer psychological effects much quicker than the average human. A halfling who cannot hear and does not have line of sight to any ally for at least 3 rounds must make a Will Save (DC10) or take a -4 penalty to all ability checks, skill checks, and saving throws while combat. This save is repeated each round that the halfling cannot see or hear allies with a cumulative +1 bonus to the DC. Outside of combat, a halfling must be away from allies for at least 3 hours before accruing penalties, and the save is made every hour.


Humans
Dominant Racial Features:
Humanoid (human)
Medium Size
15-foot (3 square) Partial Base Land Speed
+2 to any ability score
Human bonus skill points
Only human
Subordinate Racial Features:
Human Blood: For all effects related to race, this character is treated as a human.
15-foot (3 square) Partial Base Land Speed
Human bonus feat
+2 to any skill


Dwarves
Dominant Racial Features:
Humanoid (Dwarf)
Medium Size
15-foot (3 square) Partial Base Land Speed
+2 Con OR (if the same bonus is recieved from the subordinate side) Wis
Light Sensitivity
Unwinded
Darkvision
+2 Sense Motive
Subordinate Racial Features:
Dwarven Blood: For all effects related to race, this character is treated as a dwarf.
10-foot (2 square) Partial Base Land Speed
+2 Wis Con
Stable
Enduring
Darkvision
+2 Appraise


Elves
Dominant Racial Features:
Humanoid (elf)
Medium Size
20-foot (4 square) Partial Base Land Speed
+2 to Dex OR (if the same bonus is recieved from the subordinate side) Int
+2 Listen
Trance
Enhanced Senses
Combat Finesse
Delicate
Low light Vision
Subordinate Racial Features:
Elf Blood: For all effects related to race, this character is treated as an elf.
15-foot (3 square) Partial Base Land Speed
+2 to Dex
+2 Spot
Enhanced Senses
Athletic Finesse
Low light Vision


Gnomes
Dominant Racial Features:
Humanoid (gnome)
Small Size
10-foot (2 square) Partial Base Land Speed
+2 to Con OR (if the same bonus is recieved from the subordinate side) Int
+2 Spellcraft
Quick Learner
Racial Inattentiveness
Low light Vision
Powerful Build
Subordinate Racial Features:
Gnome Blood: For all effects related to race, this character is treated as a gnome.
10-foot (2 square) Partial Base Land Speed
+2 to Int
+2 Knowledge (arcana)
Patterned Scanning
See Through Deceit
Slight Build (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a)


Halflings
Dominant Racial Features:
Humanoid (halfling)
Small Size
15-foot (3 square) Partial Base Land Speed
+2 to Dex OR (if the same bonus is recieved from the subordinate side) Cha
+2 Diplomacy
Diplomatic Finesse
Group Tactics
Social Creature
Powerful Build
Subordinate Racial Features:
Halfling Blood: For all effects related to race, this character is treated as a halfling.
10-foot (2 square) Partial Base Land Speed
+2 to Dex
+2 Tumble
Lucky
Personal Force
Slight Build (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/we/20060420a)


Note: All these bonuses are racial bonuses. Therefore, they do not stack with each other.

Eloel
2009-11-15, 03:07 PM
Something about a 'Human-dominant Halfling' being more charismatic than a Human, yet not more dexterous itches.

Something I could advice, is that both Halfling sides (could also be made into other races) should get +Dex, with the 'real' halfling getting +Dex & +Cha. (or whatever)

Or even a possible change to the subordinate stats, is changing stats. Something like;

Halfling Subordinate Feature;
+2 Dex. If the Dominant feature gives bonus to Dex, instead get bonus to Cha.

This both makes it still usable as a 'real halfling', and gives the nimbleness of Halflings to any 3/4ling, unless they already are nimble.

Edit:

A bit of thinking gave another idea, that simulates stuff better. Under the system I proposed above, a Elf-Dominant Halfling would get +Dex and +Cha, both Halfling traits. We could fix it by making the dominant part changing, depending on how the subordinate side is.
So, an Elf-Dominant Halfling would be +2 Dex (from subordinate Halfling side), +2 Int (from Dominant Elf side, changed because subordinate gives same bonus)

A Gnome-Dominant Dwarf would have +2 Int compared to a Dwarf-Dominant Gnome, who has +2 Wis (just like a true Dwarf [from what you statted])

Xallace
2009-11-15, 05:17 PM
I mentioned in your thread it was perfect for what I had in mind for some time, and I credited you in the preface ;)
Do you like the addition of cultural traits? It allows for a very rich statting of a character's background.

Oh, I saw. And I've really got no problem with someone feeling my work was cool enough to build off of. *Strokes Ego thoughtfully*

Cultural traits are an interesting idea. So, any race can take any cultural trait, right? Not every dwarf has to be "that dwarfy?" Then it's cool. Do you plan on adding any kind of cultural feats to show just how much you take away from your particular culture? Like, dwarves growing up "dwarfy" get their bonuses against giants and what not, but then you have the ones that are really really into protecting their people from giantkind. Etc.

Iferus
2009-11-16, 09:52 AM
Something about a 'Human-dominant Halfling' being more charismatic than a Human, yet not more dexterous itches.

Something I could advice, is that both Halfling sides (could also be made into other races) should get +Dex, with the 'real' halfling getting +Dex & +Cha. (or whatever)

Or even a possible change to the subordinate stats, is changing stats. Something like;

Halfling Subordinate Feature;
+2 Dex. If the Dominant feature gives bonus to Dex, instead get bonus to Cha.

This both makes it still usable as a 'real halfling', and gives the nimbleness of Halflings to any 3/4ling, unless they already are nimble.

Edit:

A bit of thinking gave another idea, that simulates stuff better. Under the system I proposed above, a Elf-Dominant Halfling would get +Dex and +Cha, both Halfling traits. We could fix it by making the dominant part changing, depending on how the subordinate side is.
So, an Elf-Dominant Halfling would be +2 Dex (from subordinate Halfling side), +2 Int (from Dominant Elf side, changed because subordinate gives same bonus)

A Gnome-Dominant Dwarf would have +2 Int compared to a Dwarf-Dominant Gnome, who has +2 Wis (just like a true Dwarf [from what you statted])

:smallsmile: I totally agree.




@ Xallace: Those really really really Dwarfy Dwarves can just get themselves into a dwarven prestrige class or declare their favourite enemy or something like that. The not quite as dwarfy dwarves will have picked a mountain culture anyway. A dwarven culture is for the dwarfier of dwarves. :cool:

Eloel
2009-11-16, 10:28 AM
Note: All these bonuses are racial bonuses. Therefore, they do not stack with each other.
From what I know, racial bonuses stack with each other, like +senses from Lich stacks with +senses from Elf.

Also, +2 stat from Human could be 'fix'ed a bit. More in lines of;
'+2 to any stat. Has to be different form the Subordinate side's stat bonus'

Iferus
2009-11-16, 10:47 AM
The DMG says: The same bonuses don't stack, except for dodge bonuses en some competence bonuses. Templates such as the Lich increase the racial bonus. It doesn't say so here; in fact, I specify that racial bonuses do not stack.