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View Full Version : The 2010 4e lineup



Gamerlord
2009-11-13, 09:36 PM
Anyone looked at amazon and seen the at least late winter-spring-summer 4e line-up? The Underdark supplement sounds very interesting, as well as the PHB3.

Sir_Elderberry
2009-11-13, 09:38 PM
Let's not forget Dark Sun.

Gamerlord
2009-11-13, 09:42 PM
Let's not forget Dark Sun.

I always liked post-apocalyptic fantasy.

But I never tried dark sun, seeing how I have only played 3.5e, ever played Dark sun?

Volkov
2009-11-13, 09:47 PM
PHB3? Already? 3.X was pretty patient and didn't release a second PHB until near the end of it's all too short run.

Gamerlord
2009-11-13, 09:48 PM
The developer or whatever of 4e said a new PHB,MM, and DMG will be released every year.

Tiki Snakes
2009-11-13, 09:50 PM
Worth remembering, PHB's are basically core-quality versions of the old splat-books, essentially, offering further classes and power-sources rather than being significant reworkings of the basic system, or whatever it was specifically that the 3.5 phb2 did.

It's a very different book, basically.

Gamerlord
2009-11-13, 09:52 PM
But how the heck will they think up enough material for 6-7 years worth of core books?

Volkov
2009-11-13, 09:55 PM
But how the heck will they think up enough material for 6-7 years worth of core books?

Probably less than 6-7. Each edition has a shorter run than the last.

Gamerlord
2009-11-13, 09:59 PM
So 10.0 will last 1 week :smalltongue: ?

Volkov
2009-11-13, 09:59 PM
So 10.0 will last 1 week :smalltongue: ?

By then D&D will be utterly subsumed into hasbro. ;)

TheEmerged
2009-11-13, 10:23 PM
Edit: nevermind this first part, file under "read the rest of the post before replying"

Looking forward to Dark Sun myself, just to see the mechanics they use. I'll continue to use my own setting. I'm also eagerly awaiting the psionic classes/rules (most of my 3.x playtime was as a kobold telepath).

Swordguy
2009-11-13, 10:30 PM
This is not news. We've known pretty much from the begining that they're planning to release a PHB every year, a MM most years, and a DMG whenever they think they can get away with it.

And remember - if you don't maintain your "subscription" to D&D by purchasing all these books, Hasbro pulls your license to verbally distribute copywritten and/or trademarked game rules and concepts during the course of play. :smallannoyed:


Oh - I see how it is...edit your post to make mine less funny... :smalltongue:

Shadowbane
2009-11-13, 10:35 PM
I can barely wait for Dark Sun.:smallbiggrin:

Mando Knight
2009-11-13, 10:41 PM
Looking forward to Dark Sun myself, just to see the mechanics they use. I'll continue to use my own setting. I'm also eagerly awaiting the psionic classes/rules (most of my 3.x playtime was as a kobold telepath).

Telepath Psion is already available on DDI, to make sure that everyone with a subscription will stay tuned for the full class in the PHB3.

Inhuman Bot
2009-11-13, 11:04 PM
I always liked post-apocalyptic fantasy.

But I never tried dark sun, seeing how I have only played 3.5e, ever played Dark sun?

The main part of Dark Sun that sticks out in my mind is the Aethesian Dragon.

Did something go wrong with your epic spell casting? Darn, I guess everyone in your city will have a nice case of magical backlash. :smalltongue:

Mr. Mud
2009-11-14, 12:14 AM
I don't think anything has been announced yet, but I'm dying for a Pirate-y adventure book/pirate stuffs.

Mystic Muse
2009-11-14, 12:17 AM
I'm looking forward to Psionics.

hey MR mud what's with your avatar? O_o. he looks like a combo of "Saral caine", "dies horribly" and green fire. In a football outfit.

Mr. Mud
2009-11-14, 12:19 AM
It's my usual avatar, but spiced up for ON FIREEEEE3!!!!!!11!1 week. You like? I'll switch back and save it for the January tonight.

BobVosh
2009-11-14, 12:20 AM
I really liked Darksun. Even the character trees. I'm going to be sad if the PC murder isn't there. Even the cactus could destroy you.

Hadessniper
2009-11-14, 12:23 AM
I've never played Darksun but everything I hear about it makes it sound awesome. I also second the call for a piratey book.

Mystic Muse
2009-11-14, 12:24 AM
You like?

I do indeed like it.
Am I the only person here who DOESN'T like pirates?
now if you don't mind I need to get some time to work on the new webcomic "OMGWTFBBQ!":smallbiggrin:

BudgetDM
2009-11-14, 12:30 AM
I've heard rumors of a 4e Tomb of Horrors. Is there talk any of it for 2010? Or is it just a rumor and I fell for it?

Haven
2009-11-14, 12:38 AM
I've heard rumors of a 4e Tomb of Horrors. Is there talk any of it for 2010? Or is it just a rumor and I fell for it?

I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the idea. I like 4e, but it's a little too...friendly for something like Tomb of Horrors.

Faleldir
2009-11-14, 12:43 AM
I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the idea. I like 4e, but it's a little too...friendly for something like Tomb of Horrors.
"You are utterly annihilated until the end of your next turn."
I'm kidding, I like 4e too!

BudgetDM
2009-11-14, 12:47 AM
I'm having trouble wrapping my head around the idea. I like 4e, but it's a little too...friendly for something like Tomb of Horrors.

That why it'll be more killer than ever. This is the only time in the whole edition that the designers get to be sadistic, so they're going to make the most of it. Your character is going to die every time you roll an even number.

Reinboom
2009-11-14, 01:04 AM
I'm concerned for Dark Sun.
I tend to not be a fan of Richard Baker (one of the two leads on writing the campaign module), and in the WotC interview over dark sun with Wyatt... he kept making a lot of false notations on 4E. For example, the comment on that the two are almost perfect for each other since 4E doesn't need to be magic reliant.

I'm sitting in the "Wait and See" status here.

The books I'm looking most forward to for 2010 for as far as 4E are the Player's Handbook 3, since it'll be a relief to finally have something that breaks the mold more, and the Player's Guide filled with art from Penny Arcade. A book about optimizing from WotC is something I have to see.

Sir Homeslice
2009-11-14, 01:10 AM
the Player's Guide[...]A book about optimizing from WotC is something I have to see.

I positively dread the coming of the Player's Guide. I know it's going to be utterly terrible.

Zeful
2009-11-14, 01:11 AM
"You are utterly annihilated until the end of your next turn."
I'm kidding, I like 4e too!

You are consumed by a Sphere of Annihilation, you are utterly and irrevocably destroyed (save ends).:smallbiggrin:

Mystic Muse
2009-11-14, 01:16 AM
You are consumed by a Sphere of Annihilation, you are utterly and irrevocably destroyed (save ends).:smallbiggrin:

actually if I recall correctly Sphere of annihilation just gives ongoing 15 damage save ends and does an initial 6d6

Dimers
2009-11-14, 01:56 AM
I really liked Darksun. Even the character trees. I'm going to be sad if the PC murder isn't there. Even the cactus could destroy you.

Deadly cactus? ... I remember one from a Final Fantasy game :smallbiggrin:

Draz74
2009-11-14, 02:05 AM
"You are utterly annihilated until the end of your next turn."

Sig-worthy.

Nai_Calus
2009-11-14, 02:08 AM
"You are utterly annihilated until the end of your next turn."

There's already a race that does that. :smallbiggrin:

(Well, start of next turn, but yeah.)

Gamerlord
2009-11-14, 06:52 AM
Anyone considering grabbing the dragonborn supplement that is coming in 2010? It is just $10, but that is probably just a bad sign.

Also, Harrowing Halls Dungeon tiles (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0786953977/ref=s9_simz_gw_s0_p14_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0JNQW425BDTEVXECVJ05&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846)

Can't forget the astral sea supplement, the nine hells is now in the astral sea right? (http://www.amazon.com/Plane-Above-Secrets-Astral-Supplement/dp/0786953926/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b)

Gamerlord
2009-11-14, 07:12 AM
The tomb of horrors rumor?

ITS TRUE! (http://www.amazon.com/Tomb-Horrors-4th-Super-Adventure/dp/0786954914/ref=pd_sim_b_12)

BudgetDM
2009-11-14, 02:12 PM
ITS TRUE! (http://www.amazon.com/Tomb-Horrors-4th-Super-Adventure/dp/0786954914/ref=pd_sim_b_12)

Yes!
Now the only question is should I warn my players of it's reputation or not.

Holocron Coder
2009-11-14, 02:29 PM
To post another link for it...

Tomb of Horrors on the Wizards Site (http://www.wizards.com/dnd/Product.aspx?x=dnd/products/dndacc/253850000)

Gamerlord
2009-11-14, 02:39 PM
Yes!
Now the only question is should I warn my players of it's reputation or not.

Don't forget to remind them that this update has been built to adapt to healing surges and extra HP.

BudgetDM
2009-11-14, 05:25 PM
Don't forget to remind them that this update has been built to adapt to healing surges and extra HP.

Actually, 2/3 of my players are newbies that have never played D&D before, so I doubt that they would know why the Tomb of Horrors is special. Thought, when it comes down to it, I don't think I could live with myself if I through them into what I suspect will be a meat grinder without warning.

But to get back to the topic, the Astral Sea book looks quite Spelljammer-y. My interest is piqued.

Obrysii
2009-11-14, 05:43 PM
But how the heck will they think up enough material for 6-7 years worth of core books?

The Free Market will determine what material to produce.

Gamerlord
2009-11-14, 05:54 PM
But in every core book they release they need to make it have as much content as a core book. I can not imagine any way to think up at least 5+ classes, races are easy, just steal some from the MM, but classes are the hard part!

Jack_of_Spades
2009-11-15, 05:18 AM
I'm really nervous about 4E Dark Sun. I've been reading the old rules and fluff, and I don't see it working well for 4th edition for a few reasons.
1: Races. 4E has a lot of races. Like,a whole hell of a lot. Dark Sun didn't have that many because the Cleansing Wars wiped a lot of them out, and those that weren't wiped out were either drastically changed or died form the elements. There were maybe 7 people in Dark Sun who knew what a gnome or troll was, and they were the evil sorcerer kings.

2: Survival. Dark Sun wanted you to die. Every day was a struggle for your character to survive because the table lands of Athas hated you, the animals hated you, the people hated you. Bears, normally pretty scary. Dark Sun gave them armor plating and mind powers! Friggin mind powers! Hell, there were cactuses that could suck the blood out of your body in a matter of rounds if you just so happened to step on them. How did you check for these cacti? With a piece of cloth on the end of a 10 ft pole. It dragged on the ground and snagged on thorns and you knew to go around. Yeah it slows you down. Then you run out of water and fry like an egg.

3: Mind Powers. Everyone had them. I don't know how they'll handle everyone having psionic powers, to an extent.

4: Stuff breaks. In 2nd and 3rd ed, you could lose your equipment to several things. In Dark Sun, you lose equipment to like five times as many things. If you rolled maximum damage with most weapons, you might break your weapon. If your weapon hit a steel shield, it's probably broken. 4E doesn't have things break. Even Rust Monsters, the feared enemy of fighters and paladins, leaves behind that delicous residuum.

However, this is all assuming that this takes place in the Dark Sun that was presented in the original box set and novels. If the game takes place during the height of the cleansing wars, that could be awesome!

Mr. Mud
2009-11-15, 09:21 AM
Is there any talk of a 4e Stormwrack equivalent?

bosssmiley
2009-11-15, 09:26 AM
But how the heck will they think up enough material for 6-7 years worth of core books?

Think up? They'll just ransack the numerous old settings which (for some mysterious reason) WOTC decided to pull from pdf distro a few months ago. Nothing says "the 2000s" quite like sitting back and milking the value from old, affectionately remembered IP. :smallamused:


The Free Market will determine what material to produce.

*braces for another race to the Lowest Common Denominator*

Sir_Elderberry
2009-11-15, 10:06 AM
I think that Dark Sun could be where 4e really shows versatility--if they go out and say, "This isn't like core 4e. This is deadly, this is dangerous, etc." then I'll like the system a lot better. I don't know if they'll try this, and if they do try it I don't know if it'll work right, but I'm hoping.

Gamerlord
2009-11-15, 10:13 AM
Is there any talk of a 4e Stormwrack equivalent?

Not that I know of, and also I don't think there is enough material to steal either.....

But gamerkid will be a happy gamerkid if they remake 3.5 base classes like the samurai and spellthief.

Mercenary Pen
2009-11-15, 10:48 AM
Not that I know of, and also I don't think there is enough material to steal either.....

But gamerkid will be a happy gamerkid if they remake 3.5 base classes like the samurai and spellthief.

Unfortunately with the Samurai, there's not really enough to differentiate him from a Fighter or a Paladin. I think wotc may have said as much at one stage, but I can't really recall exactly where, or whether they specifically referenced the samurai.

Kurald Galain
2009-11-15, 04:54 PM
PHB3? Already? 3.X was pretty patient and didn't release a second PHB until near the end of it's all too short run.
Yes, but 3E has several PHB-like books that would be called PHB3, PHB4 and so forth in 4E. I'm talking about e.g. the Tome of Magic and the Book Of Nine Swords. Essentially, any book that consists primarily of a number of base classes, is called PHB# in 4E.

Kurald Galain
2009-11-15, 04:57 PM
I'm really nervous about 4E Dark Sun.
Likewise. Can you explain to me a meaningful distinction between a goliath and a half-giant?


3: Mind Powers. Everyone had them. I don't know how they'll handle everyone having psionic powers, to an extent.
Feats. Easy.



4: Stuff breaks. In 2nd and 3rd ed, you could lose your equipment to several things. In Dark Sun, you lose equipment to like five times as many things.
I would expect those effects to be replaced by something like "take -2 to your attack rolls, save ends".

That and the Epic Destiny to become a Dragon King, of course :smalltongue:

Gamerlord
2009-11-15, 04:57 PM
Unfortunately with the Samurai, there's not really enough to differentiate him from a Fighter or a Paladin. I think wotc may have said as much at one stage, but I can't really recall exactly where, or whether they specifically referenced the samurai.

Good point, what about the Ninja or spellthief, especially the spellthief, who had a very nice special spot in 3.5 that no other class really fills as far as I know.

Faleldir
2009-11-15, 07:49 PM
Samurai and Ninja would make awesome paragon paths.

Mr. Mud
2009-11-15, 07:50 PM
Samurai and Ninja would make awesome paragon paths.

But even better Base Classes :smalltongue:.

Gamerlord
2009-11-15, 07:52 PM
It is official, I demand a Spell thief 4e base class!

Tackyhillbillu
2009-11-15, 08:01 PM
I want a Swordsage. Not a Swordmage.

Zeful
2009-11-15, 09:10 PM
But even better Base Classes :smalltongue:.

Really? What is different between a Samurai and the current fighter? With all the possible interpretations and legends of the Ninja it's possible to find a few that the Rogue doesn't cover, but the Samurai? I don't see it.

Behold_the_Void
2009-11-16, 04:28 AM
Really? What is different between a Samurai and the current fighter? With all the possible interpretations and legends of the Ninja it's possible to find a few that the Rogue doesn't cover, but the Samurai? I don't see it.

To be fair, Samurai are generally trained in bow and spear fighting, so they have greater weapon versatility whereas fighters tend to specialize in a single melee.

Ranger is probably the best proxy we've got right now, and if you throw in the typical fantasy shockwave slash attack that samurai always get, you can probably make SOMETHING of it with a base class.

Of course if you go the shockwave route then they're liable to be bastard sword-based fighters, but still. I wouldn't be surprised to see such a class sometime down the road.

Mando Knight
2009-11-16, 11:30 AM
To be fair, Samurai are generally trained in bow and spear fighting, so they have greater weapon versatility whereas fighters tend to specialize in a single melee.

Martial Power 2 will have a ranged Warlord build, perhaps it'll have the same for the Fighter.

Inyssius Tor
2009-11-16, 12:20 PM
But even better Base Classes :smalltongue:.

THE GODS OF 4E HAVE GRANTED YOUR WISH!

You may find what you seek in Dragon #379 (http://wizards.com/DnD/TOC.aspx?x=dnd/4new/drtoc/379).

Or possibly the Player's Handbook, page 116. :smallamused:

tbarrie
2009-11-16, 05:37 PM
Also, Harrowing Halls Dungeon tiles (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0786953977/ref=s9_simz_gw_s0_p14_i1?pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=center-2&pf_rd_r=0JNQW425BDTEVXECVJ05&pf_rd_t=101&pf_rd_p=470938631&pf_rd_i=507846)

I'm more interested in the "Dungeon Tiles Master Set: The Dungeon". (Haven't checked if it's on Amazon, but it is listed in WotC's own product catalogue page (http://www.wizards.com/DnD/Catalog.aspx).)



Can't forget the astral sea supplement, the nine hells is now in the astral sea right? (http://www.amazon.com/Plane-Above-Secrets-Astral-Supplement/dp/0786953926/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_b)

It is.

Gamerlord
2009-11-16, 06:04 PM
Sweet, I always liked devils, I LOVE having my PCs fight fiends and undead.

Mr. Mud
2009-11-16, 06:27 PM
Really? What is different between a Samurai and the current fighter? With all the possible interpretations and legends of the Ninja it's possible to find a few that the Rogue doesn't cover, but the Samurai? I don't see it.

Samurai seems more dexterity based to me. And less hip points, so they revolve around striking even harder than fighters can, but are more susceptible to damage than fighters *shrugs* I'm about flavor, and the Samurai class (usually) has a lot to offer.

Mando Knight
2009-11-16, 06:37 PM
Samurai seems more dexterity based to me. And less hip points, so they revolve around striking even harder than fighters can, but are more susceptible to damage than fighters *shrugs* I'm about flavor, and the Samurai class (usually) has a lot to offer.

Tempest Technique fighter, with Dex-dependent powers. Huge damage output, good defender capability, lower HP than a hammer fighter. Prefers wearing chain or hide. Can switch to using a bow if ranged combat is needed, due to high Dexterity and training in all Military ranged weapons.

Mr. Mud
2009-11-16, 06:38 PM
Tempest Technique fighter, with Dex-dependent powers. Huge damage output, good defender capability, lower HP than a hammer fighter. Prefers wearing chain or hide. Can switch to using a bow if ranged combat is needed, due to high Dexterity and training in all Military ranged weapons.

Eh, point taken. That does seem pretty samurai to me, although I still hold out that Samurai has a better flavor about it.

tbarrie
2009-11-16, 06:41 PM
To be fair, Samurai are generally trained in bow and spear fighting, so they have greater weapon versatility whereas fighters tend to specialize in a single melee.

Nothing about Fighters specifically encourages them to specialize in a single melee weapon. Third and fourth edition D&D both encourage weapons users in general to specialize in a single weapon, of course, but if anything Fighters have more reason to diversify than other classes, as different weapons often provide different secondary effects on their Powers. Fighters are also trained in bows, though admittedly they don't learn cool tricks with them the way they do with melee weapons.

More importantly, the mainstream western view of samurai is all about the katana or the two-blade deal. That being the case, there's no way I can picture WotC ever making a Samurai class whose schtick differentiating it from the Fighter is "bow and spear fighting" or "weapon versatility".



Ranger is probably the best proxy we've got right now, and if you throw in the typical fantasy shockwave slash attack that samurai always get, you can probably make SOMETHING of it with a base class.

You completely lost me here. Shockwave attack? Samurai? What?

Gamerlord
2009-11-16, 06:43 PM
Must.get. SPELLTHIEF BASE CLASS!!!!!

The Tygre
2009-11-16, 07:20 PM
Is-is... that a Demonomicon?

...

Wizards, you magnificent bastards! I'll READ YOUR BOOK!

Gamerlord
2009-11-16, 07:56 PM
Is-is... that a Demonomicon?

...

Wizards, you magnificent bastards! I'll READ YOUR BOOK!
Yes,that is a demonomicon.

Mando Knight
2009-11-16, 09:05 PM
although I still hold out that Samurai has a better flavor about it.

Then put a feudal Japanese society in every game you join. Have him wear a kabuto rather than a helmet, and write haiku rather than sonnets to show off his intellect. And say that all of your swords have a curved edge. And troll forums stating that your sword is underpowered in D&D, since you should be able to cut through tanks with it.

TheEmerged
2009-11-16, 09:26 PM
RE: Dark Sun & Tomb of Horrors in a save ends/until end of turn Edition. Remember, boys & girls, just because something hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it can't happen.

That why I'm interested in Dark Sun -- not because I like the setting (I mentioned continuing to use my own, yes?) but rather to see what adaptations they're going to make for a world where weapons breaks and dying of starvation/dehydration is a possibility.

Off-hand? Here's what I bet.

They're going to make the same dodge about races that they made in Eberron. "It's possible they exist even though people don't generally know about them - if the DM wants them to."
The boon mechanic introduced in DMG2 are going to be the replacement for magic items.
Weapon breakage will be something like the result of a critical fail, rather than an attribute that is tracked.
Failing to eat/drink will reduce healing surges/reduce surge value.
Rather than tell us not to use the Divine power source, we'll be told to refluff them.

Mando Knight
2009-11-16, 09:30 PM
RE: Dark Sun & Tomb of Horrors in a save ends/until end of turn Edition. Remember, boys & girls, just because something hasn't happened yet doesn't mean it can't happen.

They're also releasing The Tomb of Horrors for 4e, as well. It says it's supposed to be appropriate for characters of level 10-22, but what that really means is that you're supposed to slip this in to a bunch of players of level 5 or lower. :smallamused:

Kurald Galain
2009-11-17, 04:28 AM
Yes,that is a demonomicon.

This will win the "most misspelled book title of the year" awrad.

Hzurr
2009-11-17, 11:43 AM
This will win the "most misspelled book title of the year" awrad.

I just read it as the De-om nom nom nomicon.

Ormagoden
2009-11-17, 12:05 PM
Let's not forget Dark Sun.

I await rocking back and forth in my chair emitting maddened cackles.

youthinktheywillupdatespelljammer?cuzthatbetotally great!ilovespaceumberhulksandhonorboundhippomen.

*Rocks back and forth a bit faster*

Gamerlord
2009-11-17, 02:42 PM
It is spelled Demon-goes-nom-nom-on-your-soul-icon!