[3.5] Dragon Undead?

[root9125]

Hey, all.

My party just killed a Young Red Dragon. Instead of just leaving it where we found it, we decided to put it in our Bag of Holding and skedaddle. I was wondering, is there any way I can raise it as undead without destroying its Wisdom? I'd love to be able to make it Spell-stitched Undead (from Complete Arcane) which casts based on Wisdom.

Assume I have access to any arcane spell of 6th level or less, and any divine spell of 5th level or less.

Thanks again!

[Sstoopidtallkid]

Even if you don't go with that, Draconomicon has templates for making undead dragons that don't suck. Use those over the MM ones, at the least. Still cost you Wis, though.

[root9125]

It also has rules for Dragon mounts. Sorry to derail my own thread, but can a caster ride a dragon? Assuming enough ranks in ride.

[Starscream]

It also has rules for Dragon mounts. Sorry to derail my own thread, but can a caster ride a dragon? Assuming enough ranks in ride.

Don't see why not, Xykon sure as heck can.

Might not even need ranks in ride, a mindless undead will do exactly as it's told, and an intelligent one under your control will be able to follow instructions.

Edit:
As for making an undead with a decent wisdom score, that depends on your DM. If he rules that Create Undead can be used not to just create a mummy, but apply the mummified template to a creature, then your dragon could actually gain wisdom. Need at least level 15, though, which I'm guessing you aren't at yet.

Pretty sure there's a Ghoulish and Ghastly template in Dragon Compendium. That adds wisdom as well.

[TheCountAlucard]

...or just "borrow" a +6 WIS item, slap it on your undead-but-not-yet-Spellstitched dragon, and then Spellstitch it. The Spellstitched template only checks the undead's Wisdom score once, if I recall correctly. Return the item, ???, and Profit.

[root9125]

Let's say I want to use Create Undead on it. And turn it into a Ghoul. What happens?

[Leon]

Let's say I want to use Create Undead on it. And turn it into a Ghoul. What happens?

Hope you can get control of it before it decides to eat your warm flesh

[root9125]

Yeah, other than that. Mechanically, what are its stats?

[Optimystik]

Let's say I want to use Create Undead on it. And turn it into a Ghoul. What happens?

A Ghoul (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/ghoul.htm) is not a template; it is a specific undead creature, like a Wraith or Mohrg. You can't make a Ghoulish X (where X is dragon in your case.)

According to Libris Mortis, undead mounts are actually harder to ride than normal ones. You take a -2 penalty to all Ride checks when on an undead mount because of the difficulty of conveying your commands to it solely via verbal means. In addition, Handle Animal, reins and other ablative devices don't improve the check. It's your DM's choice whether to use this ruling or not; clearly Rich didn't in the comic.

[Leon]

Neither The Draconomicon or Liber Mortis had anything that i can suggest - more so LM seemed to be keep mentioning "Humanoid" in relation to ghouls

So it would be more to the realm of what the DM agrees to work with you on the subject

[Optimystik]

The source you want is the BoVD "Corpse Creature" template, which can be specifically applied to a dragon corpse via Create Undead. Makes them intelligent, they keep the ability to fly (though it is reduced to clumsy) and they even keep Ex and Su abilities like breath weapon and SR.

[arguskos]

The source you want is the BoVD "Corpse Creature" template, which can be specifically applied to a dragon corpse via Create Undead. Makes them intelligent, they keep the ability to fly (though it is reduced to clumsy) and they even keep Ex and Su abilities like breath weapon and SR.
BZZZZZZT!! Wrong. There's a Ghoulish and a Ghastly template in the Dragon Compendium. Yes, it's *technically* Dragon material, but this means there is a way to do it that isn't the Corpse Creature template.

Why does everyone always ignore the DC? It's not a bad book really. Hell, it's somewhat UNDER-powered. :smallannoyed:

[BobVosh]

Cuz Dragon Compendium sounds really, really bad? Just a hideous name.

Dunno, never really seen it on book shelves.

[Acanous]

Well, Xy might have ranks in Ride >.>

Who knows?

Also, dang near anything can be made into a template, depending on DM approval.
Best thing in this situation is to check with your DM for what they'll allow, and then go from there.

[BobVosh]

Maybe he was just grappling the dragon? Or flying with it. I mean he had overland flight on at the time, if he flopped a ride check its not like he was going anywhere.

[KillianHawkeye]

I think he was referring to the part about Xykon controlling the zombie dragon mentally. "Heck, even the reins are just for show!" :xykon:

[Optimystik]

Why does everyone always ignore the DC? It's not a bad book really. Hell, it's somewhat UNDER-powered. :smallannoyed:

Because the number-one caveat you hear, both on these boards and CharOp, is that "my DM doesn't allow Dragon." The fact that a bunch of the mags got tossed into a handy volume doesn't change that.

If those templates can be applied via Create Undead, then yes they'd work, but I wasn't aware of them.

[Starscream]

If those templates can be applied via Create Undead, then yes they'd work, but I wasn't aware of them.

I always thought the entire point of those templates is to allow such a thing to happen. After all, Animate Dead is actually considered a superior spell by many necromancers, simply because you can use it on such a large variety of monsters. Kill an Ogre? Now you have a zombie ogre! Within the HD restrictions, the power scales with the monsters you fight.

Not so with Create Undead. Sure, you get more powerful undead as you progress, but they are always stock examples, straight out of the monster manual. A mummy is a mummy. A ghast is a ghast.

With the templates, you can get really creative with your army of the dead:smallsmile:

[hamishspence]

There was also a bodak template. The sample one was a bodak hydra.

Libris Mortis had its own Graveborn ghoul template.

Templates (assuming DM is generous with Create Undead and Create Greater Undead) might be quite fun to work with.

Draconomicon Zombie Dragons can fly, have breath weapon (weaker), have spell resistance, and don't double the Hit Dice. Probably the best option for Animate Dead.