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Lycanthromancer
2009-11-15, 02:58 AM
Prestidigitation. (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/Prestidigitation.htm)

There's a reason people call it mini-wish. It's capable of doing so damned many things you're pretty much guaranteed to use most of your cantrips on it (with only a few other 0-level spells coming in at a distant 2nd). It'd be worth a 1st level slot, if only for its insane versatility.

With that in mind, what kinds of things is prestidigitation realistically (and you should realize I use that term loosely) capable of?

For instance, are you trapped in a room with a poison gas that slowly kills anyone that breathes it in? "Clean the 1 cu ft of air around my head."

A kobold assassin is shooting poisoned arrows at you? "Clean the poison off any arrows that pass through that 4.8 ft2 x half-inch thick area (a cubic foot) before they hit me."

Trying to poison the merchant that can't quite afford a constant detect poison effect? "Make that strychnine smell, and taste, and look like his favorite vodka."

Did you just spread those marbles or caltrops out over that space, and want to get them back? Or even that jar of slippery oil you just tossed out? "Collect it up and put it in that bag for me."

Got a sick person on your hands and don't want to catch it? "Clean up all of the germs on and around everything that person touches."

So, what other things can you think of that mini-wish can do for you?

Pharaoh's Fist
2009-11-15, 03:01 AM
Make water taste like poison. Make poison taste like water.

golentan
2009-11-15, 03:10 AM
My wizard always starts off the day with hot toasty cinnamon rolls, a full mug of the finest coffee money can buy, sweetmeats, candied roses, and exotic fruits.

Okay, he has hardtack, water, and rehydrated veggies with a slice of jerky like everyone else, but he enjoys it more.

Half a square worth of caltrops moved at will.

Firestarter aid (for camps or arson, your choice).

Temporary fixes to mechanical objects ("crude, obviously fake gears")

Temporary key duplication (the same)

Graffiti when you get bored.

Make someone hideously ill (soil their food).

Temporarily blind a foe who wears glasses (color the lenses)

Make yourself more Tengen Toppa-y (Hokey looking glasses from nowhere).

Ruin a messenger's note (color it, or "clean" it of ink).

Stop incoming arrows, daggers with a readied action or at least imply a penalty (move objects slowly).

BobVosh
2009-11-15, 03:17 AM
Half a square worth of caltrops moved at will.
Can't duplicate another effect (mage hand) Well. Not really sure. I wouldn't care enough as a DM to rule that. You still have to squeeze to fit in the half a square without caltrops.

Firestarter aid (for camps or arson, your choice).
Indeed

Temporary fixes to mechanical objects ("crude, obviously fake gears")
They can't take any stress, so I doubt it would work. Just use mend.

Temporary key duplication (the same)
Same as above.

Graffiti when you get bored.
Funny

Make someone hideously ill (soil their food).
You can make it taste bad, but you can't make em sick

Temporarily blind a foe who wears glasses (color the lenses)
Can't effect attended objects

Make yourself more Tengen Toppa-y (Hokey looking glasses from nowhere).
Indeed

Ruin a messenger's note (color it, or "clean" it of ink).
Can't duplicate another spell (erase)

Stop incoming arrows, daggers with a readied action or at least imply a penalty (move objects slowly).
Can't effect a dice roll

golentan
2009-11-15, 03:37 AM
From the SRD
Prestidigitations are minor tricks that novice spellcasters use for practice. Once cast, a prestidigitation spell enables you to perform simple magical effects for 1 hour. The effects are minor and have severe limitations. A prestidigitation can slowly lift 1 pound of material. It can color, clean, or soil items in a 1-foot cube each round. It can chill, warm, or flavor 1 pound of nonliving material. It cannot deal damage or affect the concentration of spellcasters. Prestidigitation can create small objects, but they look crude and artificial. The materials created by a prestidigitation spell are extremely fragile, and they cannot be used as tools, weapons, or spell components. Finally, a prestidigitation lacks the power to duplicate any other spell effects. Any actual change to an object (beyond just moving, cleaning, or soiling it) persists only 1 hour.

So. Says nothing about attended objects. Mage hand is 5 lb telekinesis, prestidigitation is 1 lb.

Says nothing about affecting die rolls, or attended objects. If nothing else, grab the arrows/daggers and empty his quiver while distracting him. Finally, a use for monologuing.

(I'm going to have to do that. My badguy goes and monologues for half an hour about his plans, the PC's say "Can we attack him now?" and I say "What were you waiting for? You realize he was just distracting you while he unstoppered and poured out all of your potions and snapped the band on your cleric's holy symbol, right? Oh no, because none of you put ranks in awareness, and decided to let him monologue rather than attacking. How silly of me.")

Fragile stuff may rule out gears, but you could still make something and use it for an impression to cast something later. (and yeah, I realize I'm ignoring some errata. Don't really care, most DM's don't bother looking it up unless it's clearly broken IME).

BobVosh
2009-11-15, 05:05 AM
I coulda sworn it couldn't effect anything someone is holding. Well. Fine. Neat. Maybe I misread the PHB entry because that one looks different.

affect the concentration of spellcasters
Maybe I just remember this line very wrong.

Rainbownaga
2009-11-15, 06:01 AM
That's interesting: the saving throw in the SRD says "see text" but there isn't any mention of saving throws mentioned in the text :smallconfused:

Melamoto
2009-11-15, 06:41 AM
I'm going to have to do that. My badguy goes and monologues for half an hour about his plans, the PC's say "Can we attack him now?" and I say "What were you waiting for? You realize he was just distracting you while he unstoppered and poured out all of your potions and snapped the band on your cleric's holy symbol, right? Oh no, because none of you put ranks in awareness, and decided to let him monologue rather than attacking. How silly of me."

Ahaha, that is awesome. I'm really going to have to borrow that idea for my campaign.

The Dark Fiddler
2009-11-15, 06:51 AM
I've never actually used this, but when my group went up against a tough enemy (the DM had a habit of sending illegal enemies with 500 HP against us that couldn't hit us if he tried, but it was fun. We fought Super Macho Man), I'd always say "Slersh (my Halfling Sorcerer) casts prestidigitation to color his eyes black".

Grumman
2009-11-15, 06:53 AM
Ahaha, that is awesome. I'm really going to have to borrow that idea for my campaign.
No, it's not. Punishing your players for being too polite to call you out for what appears to be bad DMing is a horrible idea.

Godskook
2009-11-15, 07:03 AM
No, it's not. Punishing your players for being too polite to call you out for what appears to be bad DMing is a horrible idea.

It can be done without being bad DMing, but it would require establishing the rule that NPC's words 'happen' in 'real time'. In order to pull that off, this would need to be planned well in advance. Utterly impossible to pull off fairly in pbp, though, so solely a trick for real-time games.

Frog Dragon
2009-11-15, 07:15 AM
This wasn't actually me, but I was DM:ing here. The Sorc just decided to go full-on awesome.
The chars were robbing a house, color-spraying any guards that noticed them. Anyway the noise they made alerted the guards downstairs and the Sorc was running short on lvl 1 spells.
Anyway long story short the sorc subbed for prestidigitation and invisibly walking toward them, laughing maniacally (like Heath Ledger's Joker) and using prestidigitation to make shadowy strands and blood pool up on the floor, run up their legs and create a chilling sensation. Suffice to say that trained guards can seem a lot like little girls in the right situations.:smallwink:

ranagrande
2009-11-15, 07:45 AM
One of my characters dug a hole with prestidigitation once, by cleaning the dirt off of the ground.

Johel
2009-11-15, 08:02 AM
For instance, are you trapped in a room with a poison gas that slowly kills anyone that breathes it in? "Clean the 1 cu ft of air around my head."

A kobold assassin is shooting poisoned arrows at you? "Clean the poison off any arrows that pass through that 4.8 ft2 x half-inch thick area (a cubic foot) before they hit me."

Mechanically correct.
And very creative.

But IMO, no sane DM should allow that. Maybe give you a +1 to the saving throw against poison, just because you made everyone laugh. But not immunity.


One of my characters dug a hole with prestidigitation once, by cleaning the dirt off of the ground.

LoL

Acanous
2009-11-15, 08:18 AM
I've used it to set off detected traps (Move a 1 lb stone through that tripwire)

Also to create candlelight.

Glass Mouse
2009-11-15, 09:21 AM
This wasn't actually me, but I was DM:ing here. The Sorc just decided to go full-on awesome.
The chars were robbing a house, color-spraying any guards that noticed them. Anyway the noise they made alerted the guards downstairs and the Sorc was running short on lvl 1 spells.
Anyway long story short the sorc subbed for prestidigitation and invisibly walking toward them, laughing maniacally (like Heath Ledger's Joker) and using prestidigitation to make shadowy strands and blood pool up on the floor, run up their legs and create a chilling sensation. Suffice to say that trained guards can seem a lot like little girls in the right situations.:smallwink:

That is AWESOME! I'm gonna have to remember this :smalltongue:

Personally, I muchly enjoy the cleaning part of the spell.
Been trawling through sewers, food is possibly infected?
Been battling and travelling through wilderness, now need to speak to the king?
...and everything else, of course:
Maniac sorcerer wants to upstage the bard? (happened)
Need to disguise yourself from a monster sniffing its way to you?

Prestidigitation is the best spell :smallbiggrin:

Oslecamo
2009-11-15, 10:02 AM
A lot of the stuff I see here would only be allowed with a very condolescent DM, since they're based on twisting of the english language.

Can an expensive sophisticated poison/gas really be called dirt that can just be cleaned? Are magical diseases in D&D even caused by germs? Can you replicate any flavor you want?

You may as well claim you can "clean" a monster of his skin in this case. Or his entire dirty flesh!

Hmm, I don't think so.

Brendan
2009-11-15, 11:30 AM
create small objects that last for one hour: rubber disc inside escophagus of enemy.
soil objects: there go all of those fragile spell components
move object slowly: enemy's brain goes boom as it twists a full circle

Akal Saris
2009-11-15, 12:16 PM
One of my party members used it to clean off the bucket of chum that had been dumped on him, which stopped him from getting eaten by sharks and got rid of his penalties to climbing onto the ship.

Use it as part of an ambush to tip over a bucket containing your favorite contact poison, acid, etc onto an opponent's head.

Use it for the old 'Hey, what's this coin doing in your ear?' trick

Use it to make a diversion, like pushing a bunch of marbles down the floor.

There's a page-long list in Tome & Blood of more ideas, if I recall.

Somewhere
2009-11-15, 12:28 PM
Soil, or chill, target enemy underwear?

Hmm, can you distract an animal by flavouring their hair/fur/claws? Or annoy them by chilling/warming hair/fur/claws?

Edit: Is tooth enamel nonliving matter?

Milskidasith
2009-11-15, 12:29 PM
create small objects that last for one hour: rubber disc inside escophagus of enemy.

By D&D rules, that would mean... nothing, actually. Plus, it's not possible to summon objects where they cannot be supported, which would include in the air and inside the enemy (which, by D&D rules, is just a five foot cube of matter anyway).


soil objects: there go all of those fragile spell components

Soiled, not broken. Just because you made the mages bat crap look even more like crap doesn't mean it won't work. Plus, a spell component pouch is, IIRC, more than a pound.


move object slowly: enemy's brain goes boom as it twists a full circle

Prestidigitation cannot cause damage, nor could it move a brain anyway, because brains weigh more than a pound. Again, by D&D RAW, the brain doesn't do anything anyway.

Catch
2009-11-15, 12:38 PM
Again, by D&D RAW, the brain doesn't do anything anyway.

Really. Then Mind Flayers are just doing the world a public service by relieving humanoids of something they weren't using anyway?

You sir, are an Illithid in disguise. Admit it!

tyckspoon
2009-11-15, 12:50 PM
Prestidigitation cannot cause damage, nor could it move a brain anyway, because brains weigh more than a pound. Again, by D&D RAW, the brain doesn't do anything anyway.

See also: no line of effect or line of sight to the inside of a person's body/spell component pouch (oh no, you made the outside of his pouch a little more grimey! Well, you probably can't tell the difference anyway after it's been on a couple adventures.) And D&D doesn't do specific damage to bodies outside of certain individual exemptions- you can't target "that guy's brain," just "that guy" and hope you have a spell that does what you want to his brain.

Milskidasith
2009-11-15, 12:54 PM
Really. Then Mind Flayers are just doing the world a public service by relieving humanoids of something they weren't using anyway?

You sir, are an Illithid in disguise. Admit it!

You still can't target a person's brain, and while mind flayers do eat them, getting your brain smashed by a mace does no more damage than getting your leg smashed by the same mace. It does make the brain more tender, though, but the blood ruins the flavor somewhat. Still, since this is a topic about mini-wish, I could just reflavor it with that... hmm...

Why don't mind flayers just flavor, say, cow brains to taste like human brains?

tyckspoon
2009-11-15, 01:00 PM
Why don't mind flayers just flavor, say, cow brains to taste like human brains?

Depends on your reason for why they eat brains in the first place. If they just need some rare nutrient that can't be acquired otherwise (digestive problems or because of the squidface thing), that works and they just eat sentient brains because they're evil jerks. I think the current reason is that they actually consume the psychic energy of sentient beings, however, and trying to make a cow brain mimic that would be like coloring a chunk of tofu brown and trying to convince yourself it's a steak (or possibly eating a packet of food flavoring and attempting to convince your body that it had actually been nourished with the real food.)

AstralFire
2009-11-15, 01:01 PM
One of the common explanations given for why Mind Flayers can't use Rings of Sustenance to not-be-evil would extend to here, I suppose - they need that specific nourishment. (Not that I ever bought that argument.)

Somewhere
2009-11-15, 01:01 PM
Or for a person to flavour their human brain as... something that's not a human brain?

What I had in mind for tooth enamel is rapidly chilling/heating until it cracks; yea or nay?

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-15, 01:03 PM
Make water taste like poison. Make poison taste like water.It's like forcing someone to take the Improved Paranoia feat.


My wizard always starts off the day with hot toasty cinnamon rolls, a full mug of the finest coffee money can buy, sweetmeats, candied roses, and exotic fruits.

Okay, he has hardtack, water, and rehydrated veggies with a slice of jerky like everyone else, but he enjoys it more.Could be used to improve the party's morale, at least.


Half a square worth of caltrops moved at will.Two castings will cover a whole space. Or, you could use Small-sized caltrops.


Firestarter aid (for camps or arson, your choice). Likely only if you have flammable materials, but definitely.


Temporary fixes to mechanical objects ("crude, obviously fake gears")I can't quite see this working, since the objects would disintegrate as soon as any strain is applied. Could be used as the lynch-pin in a trap, though, so long as all it's supporting is a piece of wire or something.


Temporary key duplication (the same)Good for using as a template for a real key, but not much else.


Graffiti when you get bored.Or for a trail of bread-crumbs.


Make someone hideously ill (soil their food).Likely just the DC for a cantrip, but still useful.


Temporarily blind a foe who wears glasses (color the lenses)This would work. Reflex save negates, and a move action to remove, but it would do for improving action economy a bit.


Make yourself more Tengen Toppa-y (Hokey looking glasses from nowhere).No idea.


Ruin a messenger's note (color it, or "clean" it of ink).Well, you could capture a messenger, change the message, erase his memories of you from his mind via another spell, then send him on his way. Well done.


Stop incoming arrows, daggers with a readied action or at least imply a penalty (move objects slowly).Probably a VERY slight penalty (like, a -1), and only against Tiny-sized objects, but still useful.


This wasn't actually me, but I was DM:ing here. The Sorc just decided to go full-on awesome.
The chars were robbing a house, color-spraying any guards that noticed them. Anyway the noise they made alerted the guards downstairs and the Sorc was running short on lvl 1 spells.
Anyway long story short the sorc subbed for prestidigitation and invisibly walking toward them, laughing maniacally (like Heath Ledger's Joker) and using prestidigitation to make shadowy strands and blood pool up on the floor, run up their legs and create a chilling sensation. Suffice to say that trained guards can seem a lot like little girls in the right situations.:smallwink:This is the kind of stuff I'm talking about. Effects all out of proportion to what a 0 level spell should be able to do...which is why prestidigitation should be 1st level spell, at least.


One of my characters dug a hole with prestidigitation once, by cleaning the dirt off of the ground.Clever.

Very nice.


A lot of the stuff I see here would only be allowed with a very condolescent DM, since they're based on twisting of the english language.I'm interested in things that the rules indicate what mini-wish can do, that's all. Some DMs would allow it in the right situations.


Can an expensive sophisticated poison/gas really be called dirt that can just be cleaned? Are magical diseases in D&D even caused by germs? Can you replicate any flavor you want?The air or surface is dirty. Doesn't matter how.

Dirty mouth? Clean it up! Mini-wish!


You may as well claim you can "clean" a monster of his skin in this case. Or his entire dirty flesh!It's called racial cleansing. Deal with it. :smallwink:


Prestidigitation cannot cause damage, nor could it move a brain anyway, because brains weigh more than a pound. Again, by D&D RAW, the brain doesn't do anything anyway.Doesn't it cool the blood?

That's why you die when an illithid eats it.

Akal Saris
2009-11-15, 01:04 PM
One of the common explanations given for why Mind Flayers can't use Rings of Sustenance to not-be-evil would extend to here, I suppose - they need that specific nourishment. (Not that I ever bought that argument.)

Really? Who says they can't use Rings of Sustenance?

I mean, yeah, maybe an illithid could do that, but eating brains is probably so much more enjoyable, why would one do so?

Milskidasith
2009-11-15, 01:07 PM
Really? Who says they can't use Rings of Sustenance?

I mean, yeah, maybe an illithid could do that, but eating brains is probably so much more enjoyable, why would one do so?

Because occasionally we they need to survive in lands without plenty of humans around besides our their party members (if they have any) or because the town happened to roll a bunch of epic level commoners and high-ish level NPCs who pose a significant threat to us them if they go about murdering people?

AstralFire
2009-11-15, 01:07 PM
It's a common response to, "Why doesn't X evil-parasitic-magic-using-race just all wear rings of sustenance and stop being hated."

Catch
2009-11-15, 01:08 PM
One of the common explanations given for why Mind Flayers can't use Rings of Sustenance to not-be-evil would extend to here, I suppose - they need that specific nourishment. (Not that I ever bought that argument.)

I was going to make a point about Vampires doing the same thing, and then I remembered there's no penalty for the forbearance of blood. At all. Anyone else find that strange? (Not that Vampires need any more weaknesses)

Plus the whole Undead -> Negative Energy -> innate Evil thing.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-15, 01:48 PM
It's a common response to, "Why doesn't X evil-parasitic-magic-using-race just all wear rings of sustenance and stop being hated."As the wise LittleKuriboh once said:

“Well, you're clearly evil, but I see no reason not to trust you.”

If this is a case of too stupid to live, then clearly the loss of one's brain would be a suitable punishment.

Maybe they're performing a public service by chlorinating the gene pool?

Also, EEEEE AstralFire!

Vizzerdrix
2009-11-15, 02:42 PM
I like the thought of moving caltrops/marbles and taking arrows from archers. The gas idea has merit too, if only our DM would use traps on us.

How could a non caster gain access to such a handy spell?

lsfreak
2009-11-15, 02:45 PM
How could a non caster gain access to such a handy spell?

A slotless, at-will item costs 1800gp. If it takes up a slot, 900gp. A wand costs 375gp (if you've UMD).

Shademan
2009-11-15, 03:56 PM
I was going to make a point about Vampires doing the same thing, and then I remembered there's no penalty for the forbearance of blood. At all. Anyone else find that strange? (Not that Vampires need any more weaknesses)

Plus the whole Undead -> Negative Energy -> innate Evil thing.

so? zombies (well not in D&D but IRL) crave the flesh of the living. they don't actually NEED it. they just want it.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-15, 05:04 PM
so? zombies (well not in D&D but IRL) crave the flesh of the living. they don't actually NEED it. they just want it.Real life zombies?

Real life zombies?!

Real life zombies?!!!

Why hadn't I heard about it?

So much for truth in journalism.


How could a non caster gain access to such a handy spell?Single dip in wizard or sorcerer.

Possibly: bard.

Ravens_cry
2009-11-15, 05:12 PM
Single dip in wizard or sorcerer.

Possibly: bard.
Um. . .then you're a spell caster. Not a very GOOD one, but still a spell caster. A ring or other magic item would probably be best.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-15, 05:13 PM
Um. . .then your a spell caster. Not a very GOOD one, but still a spell caster.Q: What's a good way for a non-spellcaster to get access to this spell?

A: Become a spellcaster.

I don't see what is difficult about this. :smallcool:

Plus, it gives access to any and all arcanist-usable items, such as scrolls and wands.

Flickerdart
2009-11-15, 05:23 PM
This wasn't actually me, but I was DM:ing here. The Sorc just decided to go full-on awesome.
The chars were robbing a house, color-spraying any guards that noticed them. Anyway the noise they made alerted the guards downstairs and the Sorc was running short on lvl 1 spells.
Anyway long story short the sorc subbed for prestidigitation and invisibly walking toward them, laughing maniacally (like Heath Ledger's Joker) and using prestidigitation to make shadowy strands and blood pool up on the floor, run up their legs and create a chilling sensation. Suffice to say that trained guards can seem a lot like little girls in the right situations.:smallwink:
Nope. Cannot duplicate the effects of other spells, which this evidently is, either Cause Fear or Silent Image. Silent Image+, actually, since you added that cold bit to it. Way outside the power of even Mini-Wish.

Ravens_cry
2009-11-15, 05:26 PM
Q: What's a good way for a non-spellcaster to get access to this spell?

A: Become a spellcaster.

I don't see what is difficult about this. :smallcool:

Plus, it gives access to any and all arcanist-usable items, such as scrolls and wands.
Then they are no longer a non-spellcaster, and do not get it as a non-spell caster, but instead as a spell caster. What you are saying is like answering the question, 'how do I make this 'pasta taste cheesy without adding cheese' with 'add cheese'.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-15, 05:32 PM
Then they are no longer a non-spellcaster, and do not get it as a non-spell caster, but instead as a spell caster. What you are saying is like answering the question, 'how do I make this 'pasta taste cheesy without adding cheese' with 'add cheese'."Morelike, "How do I make this pasta taste cheesy?"

"Add cheese."

Flickerdart
2009-11-15, 05:36 PM
"Morelike, "How do I make this pasta taste cheesy?"

"Add cheese."
Venerable Dragonwrought Kobold pasta?

Catch
2009-11-15, 05:38 PM
so? zombies (well not in D&D but IRL) crave the flesh of the living. they don't actually NEED it. they just want it.

[citation needed]

Ravens_cry
2009-11-15, 05:42 PM
"Morelike, "How do I make this pasta taste cheesy?"

"Add cheese."
How? They don't want to be a spell caster, and a single dip in a spell casting class makes them a spell caster. Therefore, you are not answering the question within the perimeters specified by the question.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-11-15, 05:45 PM
You're reading much more into the statement than Lycanthromancer (and I) is. The question didn't specify perimeters - at least, not clearly. "How can a nonspellcaster get access to Mini-Wish?" does not explicitly state that the subject must remains a non-spellcaster. And IMO, it doesn't imply it either.

golentan
2009-11-15, 05:55 PM
Nope. Cannot duplicate the effects of other spells, which this evidently is, either Cause Fear or Silent Image. Silent Image+, actually, since you added that cold bit to it. Way outside the power of even Mini-Wish.

Nope. Create minor effects is within the range of the spell (fake blood, maybe color things black for shadow effects, chill nonliving material, like pants legs). It's an assisted intimidate check. Nothing more.

Optimystik
2009-11-15, 06:00 PM
[citation needed]

There are three types of undead feeding patterns, according to Libris Mortis.


With all of this in mind, undead feeding requirements can be broken into three types: not required, inescapable craving, and diet dependent.

Not Required: Some undead have no feeding requirements, existing solely on negative energy.

Inescapable Craving: Some undead have no “bodily” requirement to feed, and could continue to exist solely on negative energy, but are driven to their diet all the same by inescapable cravings. These cravings, denied too long, could turn even a sentient undead to mindless hunger. Once the feeding is accomplished and the hunger sated, the intensity of the craving drops back to a tolerable level, but it is a cycle doomed to repeat itself.

Diet Dependent: Some undead must feed on the living to retain either their mobility or some of their other abilities. The link to the Negative Energy Plane for undead of these sort grows increasingly tenuous the longer they are denied the necessary food. At some point, their mobility or one or more specific abilities are suppressed until they can feed again. However, no matter how enervated by lack of feeding, undead cannot be starved to the point of permanent deanimation. A fresh infusion of their preferred food can always bring them back to their full abilities. Most diet-dependent undead can go for 3d6 months before losing all mobility.

In order, examples of undead that fit these patterns are: Skeletons (Not Required), Zombies and Wights (Inescapable Craving), Ghouls and Vampires (Diet Dependent.)

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-15, 06:06 PM
There are three types of undead feeding patterns, according to Libris Mortis.

In order, examples of undead that fit these patterns are: Skeletons (Not Required), Zombies and Wights (Inescapable Craving), Ghouls and Vampires (Diet Dependent.)Except zombies are, via RAW, unable to take initiative to feed themselves.

They might crave flesh, but they never act on it, and nobody will ever know.

Anyway, back on track.

You could use it to recolor the party drow into a normal-colored elf (though it won't do anything about the spiders or the emo-ness). Or turn the duergar into a standard dwarf. Or the party's evil black dragon into a good brass-colored one. Color-coded for your convenience? Not anymore.

Could be used to wipe out the party's scent-trail when being hounded (literally!). Likewise, can snuff out footprints in the dirt, for anyone tracking you through an old abandoned house, or crypt, or on a rarely-traveled dirt road.

It can make fake scenery that can be overlaid with a casting of silent image to improve believability. Also, an object that resembles a living creature (and pretend it's a corpse; they never look quite right anyway).

Can be used to push caltrops or marbles out of the way when you're moving through, only to move them back when you're done; hinders those following you, without hindering you! Whee!

You can use it to disguise something real as something fake; just prestidigitate-up a thin coating of material over the real thing; it looks fake, so it's not like anybody will think it's a REAL pile of gold bars...

In a similar vein, it's good for hiding things in a room where nothing has been disturbed for a long time. Want to hide that 10k gp diamond? Cover it so thickly in dust that nobody will find it. Also, it can tarnish gold (which does not tarnish, ever), so people with any sense won't believe it's actual gold, and it won't be taken from you.

You can use it for silent communication; want to REALLY play the hot-and-cold game? Target their gloves.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-15, 06:08 PM
Double-post.

Catch
2009-11-15, 06:13 PM
There are three types of undead feeding patterns, according to Libris Mortis.

That's pretty helpful, but I was responding to this:


so? zombies (well not in D&D but IRL) crave the flesh of the living. they don't actually NEED it. they just want it.

Real zombies.

@V: Jokes are supposed to be funny, right?

Shademan
2009-11-15, 06:50 PM
That's pretty helpful, but I was responding to this:



Real zombies.

Didnt anyone take the joke?

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-15, 07:13 PM
That's pretty helpful, but I was responding to this:



Real zombies.

@V: Jokes supposed to be funny, right?Point-of-fact: It's slightly rude to respond to people before they've actually written what you're responding to. Try Cause Before Effect. It works much better.


Didnt anyone take the joke?...Err...What do you think we've been doing this whole time?

Catch
2009-11-15, 07:20 PM
Point-of-fact: It's slightly rude to respond to people before they've actually written what you're responding to. Try Cause Before Effect. It works much better.


http://img32.imageshack.us/img32/9224/derpjl.jpg


I like your interpretation better, though. Makes me a predictamancer.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-15, 07:23 PM
Right. And is he supposed to backtrack to read all of the responses before his own 10 minutes after he posted to insure that nobody responded to his post before his post?

Catch
2009-11-15, 07:31 PM
Right. And is he supposed to backtrack to read all of the responses before his own 10 minutes after he posted to insure that nobody responded to his post before his post?

http://img197.imageshack.us/img197/8137/aw6octw3ucpy63epiz6enac.jpg

I edited my post to include another remark, after I read what Shademan had posted, instead of posting again. "@V:" usually implies the person went back to add something instead of making an unnecessary post. You can always tell because the "Last Edited" timestamp is later than the following post.

Edit: @V: The "V" - that is, directed at the person below you in the same way "^" speaks to the poster above - usually has to be an edit, unless you're guessing at who will post next. And, like you said, minor quips like that do clutter threads, hence the rationale for this kind of edit.

Foryn Gilnith
2009-11-15, 07:39 PM
"@V:" usually implies the person went back to add something instead of making an unnecessary post.

Really? I use @(whatever) all the time and it was never as an edit.

I'm really not sure why you folks are arguing about this. Is it rude? Yes, slightly, because it's unclear. It's more than clear enough now; don't clutter the thread.

Tyndmyr
2009-11-15, 09:52 PM
It can be done without being bad DMing, but it would require establishing the rule that NPC's words 'happen' in 'real time'. In order to pull that off, this would need to be planned well in advance. Utterly impossible to pull off fairly in pbp, though, so solely a trick for real-time games.

I strongly suggest not training your players to nuke first and ask questions later. This attitude is frequent enough as it is, don't promote it any more.

On the topic of non-casters getting prestidigitation...be a gnome? You get to use it daily as an SLA, presuming you have a cha of 10, which isn't that harsh of a requirement.

sambo.
2009-11-15, 10:39 PM
i just used prestidigitation to do a drawing of some morphing dog thingoids our pbp crew just ran into.

the DM ruled i required a spellcraft check. i aced it and got a good rendition, subsequently copied by better artists than i.

what you can and can't do with presti is largly up to the DM. but it is a 0 lvl spell, so it's effects, while impressive, shouldn't be game changing unless it's very cleverly done.

that said, it's an awesome spell.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-15, 10:54 PM
Prestidigitation allows Sorcerella (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggS61GeN-dA) to clean house and make dresses using phantasmic mice and birds."Cinderelly, Cinderelly
Night and day it's Cinderelly
Make the fire, fix the breakfast
Wash the dishes, do the mopping
And the sweeping and the dusting
They always keep her hopping
She goes around in circles
Till she's very, very dizzy
Still they holler
Keep a-busy Cinderelly!

"We can do it, we can do it
We can help our Cinderelly
We can make her dress so pretty
There's nothing to it, really
We'll tie a sash around it
Put a ribbon through it
When dancing at the ball
She'll be more beautiful than all
In the lovely dress we'll make for Cinderelly!"
It's yet another reason to be Small. Surely the half inch of air around your skin takes up less than a cubic foot of space. Entering a cloudkill should be alright, since prestidigitation can clean all of that dirty old smog right up.

Could possibly clean up any water that tries to drown you by cleaning the airspace around your head of all that dirty liquid.

Bathing is a thing of the past, though you might want to keep a bathtub and candlelight around for those beautiful moonlit nights with your significant other...

It's good for advertising space when you're hawking your wares. "Melf's Magic Mart! 10% off of Potions of Heroism, today only!"

It certainly will prevent those awful negative modifiers to Diplomacy checks after pulling yourself out of the otyugh-infested sewers under the city. Reduces airborne diseases and nausea, too.

Do those shoes go with that dress? They do now.

Lysander
2009-11-15, 11:18 PM
The caltrop idea is really good. Prestidigitation is great for moving any small dangerous object. Use it to pick up a venomous snake, a beaker of molten metal, anything you don't want to touch yourself.

You can't use it to cleanse poison gas sadly. Even if you could clean all the poison out from a cube shaped area around your head, you're still in the middle of a poisonous gas cloud and nothing prevents it from rushing back in to that small space. It'd be like using the spell to dry yourself while underwater, it just wouldn't take.

Other uses:

Create pictures on the ground to communicate past a language barrier.

Bring darts back to your hand from a dart board.

Drink beer (or any liquid) from a suspended globule in the air instead of from a mug.

Catch a fragile object that's falling just out of reach.

Color stone or brick to write a temporary message on the wall for your allies to read.

Color a signal flag to change its meaning as necessary.

Create fake breadcrumbs on the ground behind you to retrace your path (if you return before they vanish in one hour).

Retrieve a key or gem that's fallen a few feet through a grate or a few inches down a drain.

Subtly reverse or slow down the flow of sand in an hourglass.

Tie someone's shoelaces together, if they're completely stationary for a few seconds and fail their spot/listen checks.

Cool down burning hot coffee.

Make a skull float to freak someone out.

Smudge and ruin a magic circle to let a demon free.

Reach something on a high shelf, or replace a candle in a chandelier high off the ground.

Keep a key safe behind a mass of barbed wire, or on a hook high in the air, so that it's impossible to retrieve easily without telekinesis.

Myrmex
2009-11-16, 12:41 AM
One of the common explanations given for why Mind Flayers can't use Rings of Sustenance to not-be-evil would extend to here, I suppose - they need that specific nourishment. (Not that I ever bought that argument.)

Mind Flayers aren't Evil because they eat brains, though.

AstralFire
2009-11-16, 12:42 AM
Mind Flayers aren't Evil because they eat brains, though.

Oh, no. But people occasionally come up with "I'd like to play a non-evil Mindflayer, and use a Ring of Sustenance to make things easier on me," and DMs who don't want that to happen have to discuss why the ring wouldn't work.

Myrmex
2009-11-16, 12:45 AM
Oh, no. But people occasionally come up with "I'd like to play a non-evil Mindflayer, and use a Ring of Sustenance to make things easier on me," and DMs who don't want that to happen have to discuss why the ring wouldn't work.

Why doesn't the ring work? Is their something in LoM?

AstralFire
2009-11-16, 12:46 AM
Why doesn't the ring work? Is their something in LoM?

I don't know the specifics of it. I just know that some feel it is 'cheap' or that it wrecks verisimilitude for a mindflayer to be able to circumvent their very specific feeding habits with a ring, so they reason that the mindflayer needs a component from the brain not reproducible by the ring - usually psychic energy.

Grumman
2009-11-16, 12:54 AM
Yes, and the last thing we need is an Illithid running around with two scimitars and a desire to overcome the well-deserved reputation of its race.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-16, 12:55 AM
Yes, and the last thing we need is an Illithid running around with two scimitars and a desire to overcome the well-deserved reputation of its race.Psychic pscimitars.

Myrmex
2009-11-16, 12:57 AM
Psychic pscimitars.

Haha, I lol'd.

Optimystik
2009-11-16, 01:38 AM
Depends on your reason for why they eat brains in the first place. If they just need some rare nutrient that can't be acquired otherwise (digestive problems or because of the squidface thing), that works and they just eat sentient brains because they're evil jerks. I think the current reason is that they actually consume the psychic energy of sentient beings, however, and trying to make a cow brain mimic that would be like coloring a chunk of tofu brown and trying to convince yourself it's a steak (or possibly eating a packet of food flavoring and attempting to convince your body that it had actually been nourished with the real food.)

LoM seems to favor your interpretation: illithid eat brains because they provide the external "enzymes, hormones, and especially psychic energy" that the illithid's body needs to function. So arguably, a ring of sustenance could provide the first two but not the third.

Myrmex
2009-11-16, 02:39 AM
Ring of Sustenance

This ring continually provides its wearer with life-sustaining nourishment. The ring also refreshes the body and mind, so that its wearer needs only sleep 2 hours per day to gain the benefit of 8 hours of sleep. The ring must be worn for a full week before it begins to work. If it is removed, the owner must wear it for another week to reattune it to himself.

Faint conjuration; CL 5th; Forge Ring, create food and water; Price 2,500 gp.

Life sustaining nourishment. Doesn't make any discernment of whether it's only mundane stuff like vitamin B12, or includes aether farts or psychic energy.

Lycanthromancer
2009-11-16, 03:05 AM
Life sustaining nourishment. Doesn't make any discernment of whether it's only mundane stuff like vitamin B12, or includes aether farts or psychic energy.I'm fairly sure they do it because they like the fear they taste upon consuming intelligent brains, and even those who use rings of sustenance still consume living sentient brains whenever they have the chance, just for the experience of doing so.

I'm not even sure they realize that what they're doing IS evil, because their mindset is so alien that they can't grasp the fact that the creatures that produce the most fear are sentient and reach intellects similar in Herculean might as their own. Even if they did, illithids are the only real people (everything else is food or chattel for experimentation) and so they disregard other species' status as those worthy of consideration.

Thus, their LE tags. The only ones that I could see as differing from this are failed attempts at ceremorphosis (fragments of the original personality are still present, granting the illithid a sense of empathy), are transplanted personalities from normal humanoid-types, are supernaturally possessed in some way or are some other severely aberrant individuals.

This is why the two characters I made for an illithidpocalypse game carried around a helm of opposite alignment; they intended on capturing some illithids and, with their help, eventually an elder brain.

Muahahaha!

...Of course, A.) this is off-topic, and B.) I didn't quite get to put that plan into motion before they activated a life-destroying virus that obliterated most of the planet.

...Oops.

AstralFire
2009-11-16, 04:26 AM
Life sustaining nourishment. Doesn't make any discernment of whether it's only mundane stuff like vitamin B12, or includes aether farts or psychic energy.

This is the view I usually take as well; however, I think this is a discussion which can not be held sensibly on the grounds of 'rules as written,' because this is really more a reaction about the way it 'ought' to be for the world to make sense as a given DM envisions it. As such, I think almost every single one will 'houserule' to their satisfaction without a second thought here - or even a first. It'd just be instinctive.

PhoenixRivers
2009-11-16, 04:50 AM
Please note: Unless stated otherwise, most creatures and attended items receive saving throws. While RAW this is not clearly defined with Prestidigitation, as a DMI wouldn't personally allow a player to affect, or be affected by, a level 0 spell without either an attack roll, a saving throw, or both.

Coidzor
2009-11-16, 06:12 AM
Well, I imagine due to the way prestidigitation works, the saving throw DC is, of course... um. well, the formula for a 1st level spell - 1, right?

The type of saving throw it is would depend upon what kind of use it's being put to.

Said aided intimidation check theatrics would be like a will save to avoid getting one of the levels of fear added on. Or just a bonus of 1-2 to a single intimidate check.

PhoenixRivers
2009-11-16, 06:16 AM
Well, I imagine due to the way prestidigitation works, the saving throw DC is, of course... um. well, the formula for a 1st level spell - 1, right?

The type of saving throw it is would depend upon what kind of use it's being put to.

Said aided intimidation check theatrics would be like a will save to avoid getting one of the levels of fear added on. Or just a bonus of 1-2 to a single intimidate check.

Bonus to intimidate would be ok, but there are spells that cause the shaken condition.

GallóglachMaxim
2009-11-16, 06:18 AM
If noone's mentioned it yet, the unofficial artificer player's guide (http://brilliantgameologists.com/boards/index.php?topic=5929.0) has a great example: Use Prestidigitation and Craft Wondrous Items to make a magical Zippo lighter.