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EleventhHour
2009-11-15, 01:36 PM
Well, I've been working on a few of these for a while, others I've just thought of recently. I figured I'd get them all down, and see what people thought.

Without futher adue...

#1 Alternate Fighter Class : Blademaster : Mk IV


HD : d10
Armour/Weapon Proficiency : All Simple and Martial Weapons, and all armours. (Light, Medium, Heavy)
Skills : Climb, Craft, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Ride, and Swim.
Skill Points : ( 2 + Int Mod ) x 4 - First level, 2 + Int Mod each additional level.


{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1 | +1 | 2 | 0 | 0 | Swordsman
2 | +2 | 3 | 0 | 0 | -
3 | +3 | 3 | 1 | 1 | Twin Weapon Fighting or Landsknecht
4 | +4 | 4 | 1 | 1 | Bonus Feat
5 | +5 | 4 | 1 | 1 | -
6 | +6/+1 | 5 | 2 | 2 | Parry or Barging
7 | +7/+2 | 5 | 2 | 2 | Bonus Feat
8 | +8/+3 | 6 | 2 | 2 | Knighthood
9 | +9/+4 | 6 | 3 | 3 | Improved TiWF or Doppelsöldner
10 | +10/+5 | 7 | 3 | 3 | Bonus Feat
11 | +11/+6/+1 | 7 | 3 | 3 | -
12 | +12/+7/+2 | 8 | 4 | 4 | Greater TiWF or Fähnrich
13 | +13/+8/+3 | 8 | 4 | 4 | Bonus Feat
14 | +14/+9/+4 | 9 | 4 | 4 | -
15 | +15/+10/+5 | 9 | 5 | 5 | Duplieren or Hauptmann, Honed Reflexes
16 | +16/+11/+6/+1 | 10 | 5 | 5 | Bonus Feat
17 | +17/+12/+7/+2| 10 | 5 | 5 | -
18 | +18/+13/+8/+3 | 11 | 6 | 6 | Swordwind or Heavy Strike
19 | +19/+14/+9/+4| 11 | 6 | 6 | Bonus Feat
20 | +20/+15/+10/+5 | 12 | 6 | 6 | Weapon Master
[/table]

Class Features

Swordsman : A Blademaster gains Weapon Focus for a single weapon of her choice that is of the Slashing, or Piercing type on her first level.

Twin Weapon Fighting : A Blademaster has the attack penalty for using a weapon in each hand reduced by 2 for the primary hand, and 6 for the off hand. The penalty is reduced by a further 2 on the primary, if the secondary weapon is light. (Stacks with the normal bonus for using light weapons.)

Landsknecht : A Blademaster may make Power Attacks with a two handed weapon, and if a Critical Hit is confirmed, the blow also knocks them prone. The prone effect is only in effect if the Blademaster succeeds in an opposed Strength check.

Parry : A blademaster wielding a simple or martial weapon in each hand gains a +1 shield bonus to her Armour Class.

Barging : A blademaster using a twohanded weapon, when attempting to overrun cannot be avoided, gains a +4 to thier Strength check, and may make an Attack of Opprotunity if thier opponent is knocked prone. They can also not have Attacks of Opprotunity applied to them while Overrunning.

Knighthood : A blademaster, having been trained in heavy armour, recieves a +4 bonus to thier Armour Penalty in Heavy Armour, and a +2 in Medium, and thier maximum speed is increased by 5'. (Up to, at most, thier unarmoured maximum.)

Improved Twin Weapon Fighting : A blademaster recieves, in addition to the standard single offhand attack, the ability to make a second attack with the offhand weapon, though at a -5 penalty. You may also apply your full Strength bonus to your offhand weapon.

Doppelsöldner : Your multiplyer for damage in Power Attacks for twohanded weapons is increased to three, and your strength bonus for using a two handed weapon is increased from one-and-a-half to two.

Greater Twin Weapon Fighting : You get a third attack with your offhand weapon, at a -10 penalty. You may also treat any one-handed martial weapon as a light weapon for offhand purposes.

Fähnrich : A blademaster who has advanced along the path of mastery in twohanded weapons this far, may make a full-action attack and hit every target within reach with two attacks, at his highest, and second highest attack modifiers. (Ex. +20/+15)

Duplieren : You recieve a fourth attack with your offhand weapon, at a -15 penalty, though you may trade it to cause 1 damage to the targets Constitution per hit with your offhand weapon. The penalty for wielding two onehanded weapons is reduced to 0.

Hauptmann : You may designate one of your attacks to cause Stunning with Fortitude save DC of 10 + 1/2 your character level + Strength Mod. The ability to do this may only be used as many times per day as 1/2 your character level.

Honed Reflexes : You may make an extra attack each round at your full Attack bonus, as if under the effects of the spell Haste. This can stack with the effect of the spell, and the Speed enchantment.

Swordwind : You may make a fifth attack with your offhand weapon at a -20 penalty. In addition, when declaring a charge, you may make one attack on each adjacent enemy that you run past, at your maximum Attack Bonus. The maximum movement in Heavy or Medium armour for the Blademaster is also increased by 10', and is not limited by the racial standard.

Heavy Strike : Your multiplier for Power Attacks while using a twohanded weapon is increased to 4. You may trade your Power Attack for the ability to bypass any type DR, except magic, with your attacks.

Weapon Master : You gain Greater Weapon Specialization with all Martial and Simple weapons.


Note : The Progression of one path, (Twin Weapon Fighting or Twohander Fighting) does not allow you to take abilities from the other path. So if you were at Hauptmann in the Two-handed path, you would still have to start at Twin Weapon Fighting for the other path.

Note II : Yes, I know that's an irregular BAB growth, I figured warriors needed every bit of help they could get. :smalltongue: Changed.

Note III : The multiplier increase from this class are NOT stackable with Leap Attack.


**

I think I'll post these up one at a time, and once per week, so I have time to look over each beforehand, make edits on the given advice, and to put some space between each class.

So, I await reactions, critiques, and critism. Hopefully constructive critism.

:smallsmile:

The Demented One
2009-11-15, 01:40 PM
Note II : Yes, I know that's an irregular BAB growth, I figured warriors needed every bit of help they could get. :smalltongue:

That's...not a good idea. Not at all. Just give them normal full-BAB.

Milskidasith
2009-11-15, 01:47 PM
It can enter PrCs at level 2 and is the best dip class ever! Woo! Plus since it can't used ranged weapons, it's even more useless against anything but slow ground based opponents than a normal fighter.

Eldan
2009-11-15, 02:08 PM
Just a little correction on the german, if you don't mind...

-Fähnriche is plural. Fähnrich is singular.

-You forgot the "s" in Landsknecht in the description.

May I ask why you named your abilities in the TWF path after old german military ranks? Usually, I wouldn't use rank names, they seem to imply that he is an officer somewhere in an army.

Also, I'd replace the irregular BAB with something like the monk's flurry perhaps (just better): extra attacks per round at the same BAB.

Zeta Kai
2009-11-15, 02:13 PM
That's...not a good idea. Not at all. Just give them normal full-BAB.

Agreed. If you wish, you could give them a class feature that allows them to add their Dexterity bonus to attack rolls. That would accomplish roughly the same thing, while avoiding goofy BAB formulas.

Ashtagon
2009-11-15, 02:48 PM
BAB +6/+1 at level 1? Sign me up for a one-level dip!

Kuma
2009-11-15, 03:32 PM
I must agree with the Demented one on this, +6/+1 BAB at 1st level is too good not to pass up. dont do it, that was the worst thin i found about this class, but would have to look at it closer to put in more critique

Milskidasith
2009-11-15, 03:50 PM
Granted, though +6 BAB is a good dip, you have to remember it can literally never use a ranged weapon. Taking it as a dip means flying creatures screw melee builds over even more.

Gorgondantess
2009-11-15, 04:02 PM
As a person who loves gishes: hello 3rd level abjurant champion! Even with the 'never able to use ranged weapons clause' that's obscenely OP, especially if the character in question has some other way to fight flying/etc. opponents than ranged weapons (like spells). If you really, really want it to have +25 BAB by level 20, then give it +1.25 BAB per level to even things out, rather than getting it all at once.

EleventhHour
2009-11-15, 04:26 PM
Alright, I had meant to reply to the crit's earlier, but my internet crashed. (And appearntly they piled up since! :smallsmile: )

And I had some time to think about it ;

Instead of starting at 6/1, and working up to 25/... I'll just tag an ability on to give it an extra attack a la haste at level 15.

@Eldan : It's the Two-hander side of the class, and they looked cool to go with it. And thanks, I'm not actually great at German at all, being English native with a passing interest in Latin. :smalltongue:

@Milskidasith : I guess it is rather hindering, but the use of magic items for flight/etc should be able to help some... right?

Milskidasith
2009-11-15, 04:28 PM
@Milskidasith : I guess it is rather hindering, but the use of magic items for flight/etc should be able to help some... right?

No. Forcing a magic item tax upon the character (well, moreso than with most fighters) does not make up for a glaring weakness (though the +6 BAB might have). Yes, you can get permanent flying, or have the wizard cast overland flight on you, but it's a drain on resources and doesn't even make sense, fluffwise. Even wizards, the wimpiest of all characters by the fluff, can use ranged weapons; why can't this class?

EleventhHour
2009-11-15, 04:31 PM
No. Forcing a magic item tax upon the character (well, moreso than with most fighters) does not make up for a glaring weakness (though the +6 BAB might have). Yes, you can get permanent flying, or have the wizard cast overland flight on you, but it's a drain on resources and doesn't even make sense, fluffwise. Even wizards, the wimpiest of all characters by the fluff, can use ranged weapons; why can't this class?

Brettonian sense of honour? >.>

I guess it can go...

PairO'Dice Lost
2009-11-15, 04:48 PM
Instead of using a nonstandard BAB progression, you might want to do something like Grace or Battle Fortitude, where a class feature essentially gives a nonstandard progression but not really. If at every 4th level you give +1 effective BAB for the purposes of iterative attacks only, you wouldn't throw off the RNG but he'd still get iteratives faster than normal. That would also help remove some of the dead levels if you moved other abilities around a bit.

Knaight
2009-11-15, 04:53 PM
If you have to give it a BAB boost(and you do, since it currently sucks), at least make it something like:
Level:Bonus
1:1
2:2
3:3
4:5
5:6
6:7
7:8
8:10
9:11
10:12
11:13
12:15
13:16
14:17
15:18
16:20
17:21
18:22
19:23
20:25

And I would recommend a lot more power, more weapons, and a one handed sword and shield/cloak/nothin' style.

EleventhHour
2009-11-15, 05:28 PM
Wait, wait, wait.

The 1.25:1 BAB is good or bad? :smallconfused:

Knaight
2009-11-15, 06:38 PM
It breaks with standard, and doesn't address the big flaws, but it is a lot better than starting with 6/1. Its a nice bonus, but that is all, and certainly doesn't make a hugely powerful dip class as a result.

Temotei
2009-11-15, 08:10 PM
You don't have a bonus feat list, so I imagine the bonus feats act just like a fighter's?

EDIT: Also, proficiency with shields would be nice.

Zeta Kai
2009-11-15, 08:11 PM
Wait, wait, wait.

The 1.25:1 BAB is good or bad? :smallconfused:

Very, VERY, VERY BAD. At least in any campaign with standard magic & items. In a low-magic, low-items game, it works just fine, as the the higher stats supplement the lack of magical effects, just like VoP does. But in the standard D&D world, it's horribly unbalanced. The casters still stomp all over everything, but the non-casters without insane BAB get left in the dust.

TL;DR: Leave BAB alone if you want to maintain your credibility. Pick your battles elsewhere.

EleventhHour
2009-11-15, 08:11 PM
You don't have a bonus feat list, so I imagine the bonus feats act just like a fighter's?

Whoops.

...Yeah, it'd probably be easiest just to steal the Fighter's list of Bonus Feats.

::



TL;DR: Leave BAB alone if you want to maintain your credibility. Pick your battles elsewhere.

I wish you bunch would make up your minds. :smallsigh:

::

Leaving it at 1:1 BAB, and using the +1 attack at the fifteenth level to make it an artificial 1.25:1. :smallsmile:

Cogwheel
2009-11-21, 12:12 PM
Posting here to bump the thread, as I'd like to see the next class. Which, by the way, is going to be a tanky defender class, since sword-and-board strategies in D&D are somewhat lacking.

As for the whole criticism thing, extra BAB is a poor idea, but I see what you were getting at. Might I suggest a scaling bonus to melee attacks, regardless of which branch of the class you choose to go down? It might get the effect you were going for. If you want extra attacks too, you might want to look at the monk's Flurry of Blows as a base.

EleventhHour
2009-11-22, 01:46 PM
And, second week, second class.

Let's see what the opinion on this is...

Defender Varient : Bastion

HD : d12
Armour/Weapon Proficiency : All Simple and Martial Weapons, all armour (Light, Medium, Heavy) and shields. (Including Tower Shields.)
Skills : Climb, Craft, Concentration, Handle Animal, Intimidate, Jump, Listen, Ride, and Swim.
Skill Points : ( 2 + Int Mod ) x 4 - First level, 2 + Int Mod each additional level.
{table=head]Level | BAB | Fort | Ref | Will | Special
1 | +0 | +2 | +0 | +2 | Guardian
2 | +1 | +3 | +0 | +3 | Shieldwall
3 | +2 | +3 | +1 | +3 | DR 1/-
4 | +3 | +4 | +1 | +4 | Toughness
5 | +3 | +4 | +1 | +4 | Battle Truism
6 | +4 | +5 | +2 | +5 | Watcher
7 | +5 | +5 | +2 | +5 | DR 2/-
8 | +6/+1 | +6 | +2 | +6 | Toughness II
9 | +6/+1 | +6 | +3 | +6 | Steward
10 | +7/+2 | +7 | +3 | +7 | Improved Shieldwall
11 | +8/+3 | +7 | +3 | +7 | DR 3/-
12 | +9/+4 | +8 | +4 | +8 | Toughness III
13 | +9/+4 | +8 | +4 | +8 | Wall of Spears
14 | +10/+5 | +9 | +4 | +9 | Anvil
15 | +11/+6/+1 | +9 | +5 | +9 | DR 4/-
16 | +12/+7/+2 | +10 | +5 | +10 | Toughness IV
17 | +12/+7/+2 | +10 | +5 | +10 | Eldrich Defender
18 | +13/+8/+3 | +11 | +6 | +11 | True Shield
19 | +14/+9/+4 | +11 | +6 | +11 | DR 5/-
20 | +15/+10/+5 | +12 | +6 | +12 | Heimdall
[/table]

Class Features

Guardian : A Bastion, upon gaining his first level in the class, may subsitute the Dex bonus to AC with his Con bonus.

Shieldwall : A bastion holding a shield gains an extra one and a half times the shield's basic AC bonus. (Ex. A Tower shield of AC 4, would instead grant +6 AC.) You also no longer take a penalty to your Attack Bonus for wielding a Tower Shield. Both Heavy and Light shields count as light weapons for purposes of Two Weapon fighting. (Ie. Shieldbashing offhand.) You also no longer lose the AC bonus of a shield that you are shieldbashing with.

Toughness : As Player's Handbook, +3 Health.

Battle Truism : The Bastion must make a select of one of the following -

• "The Best Offence is a Good Defence.", For each ally adjacent to the Bastion, he gains +1 to his Attack Bonus, though this cannot grant him extra attacks, even if the similar BAB would normally have it.
• "The Best Defence is a Good Offence.", For each enemy adjacent to the Bastion, he gains +1 to his AC.
• "Do nothing without a Reason.", If an adjacent enemy misses an attack, then you may take a single Attack of Opprotunity. (Per round.)
• "If a man does not strike first, he will be the first struck.", You recieve an Attack of Opprotunity against any charging enemy.

Watcher : A Bastion must make a good guardian of places as well as being a warrior, and thusly recieves a +2 to his Spot and Listen checks, and is immune to flanking, as if he had the Improved Uncanny Dodge. (Retaining the ability to be flanked by characters four levels higher than himself.)

Steward : Any adjacent ally may use your AC instead of thier own, but if hit, both you and the defendee take the damage.

Improved Shieldwall : You may use Heavy or Tower Shields to create cover. Furthermore, you may attack over this cover, and setting it is now a standard action with a Tower Shield. You gain twice the amount of AC bonus from a shield than it normally grants. (AC 4 Tower shield becomes an AC 8.)

Wall of Spears : When staying stationary, and holding a light or heavy shield, you may use polearms as onehanded martial weapons. You may do this even while using the shield as cover. You cannot shieldbash while using a polearm and taking advantage of this ability.

Anvil : A Bastion must be the anvil for the others to be a hammer, thus he recieves a +2 bonus against, and for making, Trip attacks, in addition, he can make Trip attempts with a weapon, when otherwise eligible to make an Attack of Opprotunity.

Eldritch Defender : The Bastion gains a +5 Spell Resistance bonus added to any exsisting Spell Resistance, and while using a shield as cover, it gives a 50% chance of resisting, blocking, or otherwise defending him, and only him, from the spell. This defence also applies to the shield being used, giving it a save against spells such as disintigrate or polymorph.

True Shield : Light shields may now be used to create partial cover as a standard action, being too small to set up otherwise, and heavy shields can be set as cover as a standard action. Tower shields, when setup as cover, now count as cover not only for the Bastion, but for anyone within five feet adjacent to the left and right, as well.

Heimdall : A truely legendary guardian in his own right, a Bastion no longer needs to sleep, gains +2 Constitution, and a +4 bonus on his Spot and Listen checks that stacks with the Watcher Bonus. A Bastion with health in the negatives, even past -10, may continue fighting as long as the combat continues, and one of his allies are alive within fifteen feet. (Both of these are required for his survival, even if an ally is alive, when combat ends, he collapses to death or unconciousness as normal.)

Cogwheel
2009-11-22, 11:43 PM
Seems good. We already discussed most of the issues, but might I suggest a few fighter bonus feats, possibly restricted to shield/armour stuff? Just to fill in the dead levels. I hate dead levels.

Anyway, the class is good. Nice work :smallbiggrin: Always good to see a competent tanky class.

EleventhHour
2009-11-22, 11:51 PM
Seems good. We already discussed most of the issues, but might I suggest a few fighter bonus feats, possibly restricted to shield/armour stuff? Just to fill in the dead levels. I hate dead levels.

Anyway, the class is good. Nice work :smallbiggrin: Always good to see a competent tanky class.

Well, the dead levels are just to maintain a balance in thier growth, and though some, or most, people would like there to be something in each level, I like to see a space between abilites, giving players time to adjust to what they have. Besides, when thier evened out well, a few of them shouldn't be too painful.

Thanks. :smallsmile:

Cogwheel
2009-11-23, 01:44 PM
Well, the dead levels are just to maintain a balance in thier growth, and though some, or most, people would like there to be something in each level, I like to see a space between abilites, giving players time to adjust to what they have. Besides, when thier evened out well, a few of them shouldn't be too painful.

Thanks. :smallsmile:

As opposed to some examples of dead levels I could give. Fighters, for instance? Bad. And sorcerors/clerics... we don't talk about them.

Sure, they're powerful. Doesn't make dead levels any less annoying :smalltongue:

EleventhHour
2009-11-24, 10:57 PM
As opposed to some examples of dead levels I could give. Fighters, for instance? Bad. And sorcerors/clerics... we don't talk about them.

Sure, they're powerful. Doesn't make dead levels any less annoying :smalltongue:

Heh. I'm sure people will be able to live with it. :smallwink:

Taking this reply as opprotunity to make an exciting anouncement, too!
...for those few who bother reading this thread.

Big Image : Reveal

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f42/BrightestHunter/scan0001.jpg
Context Bar :
- The 'poofy trees' are Dedicious Forest
- The christmas-stick trees are Carniferous Forest
- The big Black Dots are cities. (Villages aren't marked.)
- Speckled dots is desert. (The southern part, see it?)
- The Ring-in-ring are Gate Cities. (More explaination, later!)
- The triangles are mountains. (I feel like such a kid. :smalltongue: )
- The little groups of squares are Stone Henge-like constructs.
- The two hollow circles, are abandoned cities. (One in the north, one on the side-island.)
- Blank space is plains/grasslands. (Except up north... well, thier icy plains.)
- The runes are an ancient language. (No spoilers for that, yet!)


Soon, this thread will be a complementary branch of my own world building. :smallwink:

Nay-sayers beware, though critics are adored. (And people who are going to puzzle out the runes, should keep it to themselves. >.> )

Gorgondantess
2009-11-24, 11:37 PM
As opposed to some examples of dead levels I could give. Fighters, for instance? Bad. And sorcerors/clerics... we don't talk about them.

Sure, they're powerful. Doesn't make dead levels any less annoying :smalltongue:

Heh. I'm sure people will be able to live with it. :smallwink:



As a guy who really, really (really) likes playing sorcerors... lemme tell you something about sorceror level 2, eleven. Do you know what you get at sorceror level 2? Another cantrip known. Do you know how maddening it is, to start at level one and work so, so very hard to gain your next level, fleeing from any enemy who moves one square towards your fragile, miniscule hp and AC, only to get... a cantrip? It feels really bad, actually. You look around, and you see these other characters, oh, how they get such cool stuff... bards get their 1st level spells, rangers get their combat style, paladins get their divine grace, that loser monk gets a bonus feat and evasion... and you get a cantrip. A piddly, likely useless cantrip.
Dead levels... are evil. No dead levels. Please. Think of the level 2 sorcerors.

EDIT: Oh, also, you have quite a hand for maps. Very nice.:smallbiggrin:

EleventhHour
2009-11-24, 11:47 PM
As a guy who really, really (really) likes playing sorcerors... lemme tell you something about sorceror level 2, eleven. Do you know what you get at sorceror level 2? Another cantrip known. Do you know how maddening it is, to start at level one and work so, so very hard to gain your next level, fleeing from any enemy who moves one square towards your fragile, miniscule hp and AC, only to get... a cantrip? It feels really bad, actually. You look around, and you see these other characters, oh, how they get such cool stuff... bards get their 1st level spells, rangers get their combat style, paladins get their divine grace, that loser monk gets a bonus feat and evasion... and you get a cantrip. A piddly, likely useless cantrip.
Dead levels... are evil. No dead levels. Please. Think of the level 2 sorcerors.

EDIT: Oh, also, you have quite a hand for maps. Very nice.:smallbiggrin:

But... Aww... Poor level 2 sorcerers... *sniffle* I just don't like having the entire thing filled... I'm ridiculous, I know, but I just have an aversion to seeing things every single level. They should have things to look forward to...

:smallbiggrin: Thanks. I don't like the middle of the inside right on the mainland, though. :smallannoyed:

Gorgondantess
2009-11-25, 12:01 AM
But... Aww... Poor level 2 sorcerers... *sniffle* I just don't like having the entire thing filled... I'm ridiculous, I know, but I just have an aversion to seeing things every single level. They should have things to look forward to...
Yes, they should. But they should also shouldn't have to not have anything to look forwards to the next level. The more you play, the more you'll find that dead levels just aren't any fun: it makes you feel like all the hard work to go up a level was for naught.
The way to balance this out- having things to look forwards to, but also having no dead levels- is to, say, have some really, really cool ability every few levels, then just have something decent in between. For example, with the duskblade (not technically dead level free, but pretty close) when you progress to second level, you get combat casting. Now, without this, 2nd level would feel empty and useless (much like the poor sorceror). However, it'not anything special or important, it doesn't make getting channel spell at level 3 any less awesome.:smallsmile:
So, what I'd do with, say, your bulwark character, is allow the character to grab a bonus feat from a rather small list on the dead levels- stuff like toughness, and shield specialization. It doesn't steal the glory of the really cool stuff like steward, though- you'll still be eagerly awaiting that.
(Also, it could use a bit of a power boost- as it stands, I'd call steward tier 4. Not necessarily anything to write home about.)


:smallbiggrin: Thanks. I don't like the middle of the inside right on the mainland, though. :smallannoyed:
Hey, it's still better than anything I could do. I have to resort to describing my landmasses.:smallyuk:

EleventhHour
2009-11-25, 12:11 AM
Yes, they should. But they should also shouldn't have to not have anything to look forwards to the next level. The more you play, the more you'll find that dead levels just aren't any fun: it makes you feel like all the hard work to go up a level was for naught.
The way to balance this out- having things to look forwards to, but also having no dead levels- is to, say, have some really, really cool ability every few levels, then just have something decent in between. For example, with the duskblade (not technically dead level free, but pretty close) when you progress to second level, you get combat casting. Now, without this, 2nd level would feel empty and useless (much like the poor sorceror). However, it'not anything special or important, it doesn't make getting channel spell at level 3 any less awesome.:smallsmile:
So, what I'd do with, say, your bulwark character, is allow the character to grab a bonus feat from a rather small list on the dead levels- stuff like toughness, and shield specialization. It doesn't steal the glory of the really cool stuff like steward, though- you'll still be eagerly awaiting that.
(Also, it could use a bit of a power boost- as it stands, I'd call steward tier 4. Not necessarily anything to write home about.)


But then you have a chart filled in, just because. I know what you mean, that it's best to have something every level, the thing is it touches two things on me ;

A.) You're giving them... minor, minor things, to avoid dead levels.
B.) I run out of ideas that actually mean anything toward the class, making it feel like filler to give them the bonus feats.

Any suggestions on things to improve? (...aside from adding casting/maneuvers. Screw you, arcane-miesters. >.>)

And ; I think you'll like the next class. It's a stealth-rogue remix. It has a ton of stuff.



Hey, it's still better than anything I could do. I have to resort to describing my landmasses.:smallyuk:

I'm going to be describing them all, I have to do a few pages of fluff for each kingdom, a paragraph or so for each city, a bunch on the Five Four Gate Cities, some of the "Unique Locations" filler... :smallwink:

Gorgondantess
2009-11-25, 12:23 AM
But then you have a chart filled in, just because. I know what you mean, that it's best to have something every level, the thing is it touches two things on me ;

A.) You're giving them... minor, minor things, to avoid dead levels.
B.) I run out of ideas that actually mean anything toward the class, making it feel like filler to give them the bonus feats.

Any suggestions on things to improve? (...aside from adding casting/maneuvers. Screw you, arcane-miesters. >.>)
Oh, yes, I agree on that point (though sometimes, like in the case of the ranger, some 4th level casting really adds to the class). But anyhow, then I'd advise some generic abilities that fit the class, and maybe some dailies.
For example, why not throw mettle in there? It fits, clears up dead levels, and synergizes nicely. While you might not want to give it spellcasting, taking inspiration from pre-existing spells works well- for example, you could give the bastion something akin to timeless body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timelessBody.htm) later in the levels, or maybe something like indomitability- once per day a blow that would reduce it to negative hitpoints reduces it to 1 hitpoint instead. Just some fun abilities that lets you do something in combat other than full attack, but aren't necessarily spells. When building a class, I like to look at splatbooks and see if something will inspire me- be it spells, or PrCs, or races, or whatever. I then change it and make it my own.


And ; I think you'll like the next class. It's a stealth-rogue remix. It has a ton of stuff.
Mmmm, interesting. We shall see, won't we?:smalltongue:



I'm going to be describing them all, I have to do a few pages of fluff for each kingdom, a paragraph or so for each city, a bunch on the Five Four Gate Cities, some of the "Unique Locations" filler... :smallwink:

When I said describe, I didn't mean write fluff, I meant "Landmass A has a slightly elliptical shape tending towards North/south and is about 500 miles at its thinnest, this part is covered by dedicious forests, this part hilly plains..." etc, instead of making a map. And that, my friend, is why I praise your mapmaking skills: out of pure, spiteful envy.:smallwink:

EleventhHour
2009-11-25, 12:30 AM
Oh, yes, I agree on that point (though sometimes, like in the case of the ranger, some 4th level casting really adds to the class). But anyhow, then I'd advise some generic abilities that fit the class, and maybe some dailies.
For example, why not throw mettle in there? It fits, clears up dead levels, and synergizes nicely. While you might not want to give it spellcasting, taking inspiration from pre-existing spells works well- for example, you could give the bastion something akin to timeless body (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/psionic/powers/timelessBody.htm) later in the levels, or maybe something like indomitability- once per day a blow that would reduce it to negative hitpoints reduces it to 1 hitpoint instead. Just some fun abilities that lets you do something in combat other than full attack, but aren't necessarily spells. When building a class, I like to look at splatbooks and see if something will inspire me- be it spells, or PrCs, or races, or whatever. I then change it and make it my own.


Hmmm... I guess it wouldn't hurt to fill the spaces... Much...

*wanders off mumbling about wounded dignity*



Mmmm, interesting. We shall see, won't we?:smalltongue:


On Sunday, we will. :smallamused:




When I said describe, I didn't mean write fluff, I meant "Landmass A has a slightly elliptical shape tending towards North/south and is about 500 miles at its thinnest, this part is covered by dedicious forests, this part hilly plains..." etc, instead of making a map. And that, my friend, is why I praise your mapmaking skills: out of pure, spiteful envy.:smallwink:

...I'm going to be writing a page about how fluffy the clouds are, how much snow and ice are in the mountains, the exact shade of the castle walls in the Elven nation... And your's sounds like too much work to me. Bad sign? Probably!

If you want, I could always draw maps for you. It takes twenty minutes to get the form, and a good hour to get all the details put on, so I'd have time between classes for sketching (Or even during class. >.> ), depending on what you wanted, and how long you can wait.

Gorgondantess
2009-11-25, 12:42 AM
Hmmm... I guess it wouldn't hurt to fill the spaces... Much...

*wanders off mumbling about wounded dignity*
Well, hey, I'm just trying to help. If I ever begin to grate, just tell me to shut up and go away and I'll sulk off to some other thread.:smalltongue:




On Sunday, we will. :smallamused:
Well, in that case I wait with bated breath.:smallbiggrin:




...I'm going to be writing a page about how fluffy the clouds are, how much snow and ice are in the mountains, the exact shade of the castle walls in the Elven nation... And your's sounds like too much work to me. Bad sign? Probably!
It's a lot of work because it's so very tedious and bland. Less work to do something long, arduous and fun than something short, plodding and dull, no?


If you want, I could always draw maps for you. It takes twenty minutes to get the form, and a good hour to get all the details put on, so I'd have time between classes for sketching (Or even during class. >.> ), depending on what you wanted, and how long you can wait.
Ah, but you see, to get you to draw a map of my specifications... I'd have to describe what I want. Which is what I don't like doing, which is why I envy your mapmaking abilities.
But, if any of my at the moment not quite extant players desire the logistics of my convoluted world, then I'll be certain to ask you to draw me a map so as to spare them my plodding words, eh?

EleventhHour
2009-11-25, 12:50 AM
Well, hey, I'm just trying to help. If I ever begin to grate, just tell me to shut up and go away and I'll sulk off to some other thread.:smalltongue:


Never. I don't get enough people around here, thier all off staring at the somewhat-new-and-unoriginal-caster-mark-III, or How To Make Your Favorite Races From Other Fiction Into d20. I value my readers. :smallwink:



Well, in that case I wait with bated breath.:smallbiggrin:


Psssh.




It's a lot of work because it's so very tedious and bland. Less work to do something long, arduous and fun than something short, plodding and dull, no?


I suppose...




Ah, but you see, to get you to draw a map of my specifications... I'd have to describe what I want. Which is what I don't like doing, which is why I envy your mapmaking abilities.
But, if any of my at the moment not quite extant players desire the logistics of my convoluted world, then I'll be certain to ask you to draw me a map so as to spare them my plodding words, eh?

But if you get a map, you only have to do it once, and you don't even have to give exact details, unless there's a certain feature you had in mind. Unlike the players, I'm not going to try and wander off the map into oblivion.

Yes'm. :smallsmile: I'm sure thier not plodding, though. >.>
...I'm shutting up now. :smallredface:

Gorgondantess
2009-11-25, 01:30 AM
Never. I don't get enough people around here, thier all off staring at the somewhat-new-and-unoriginal-caster-mark-III, or How To Make Your Favorite Races From Other Fiction Into d20. I value my readers. :smallwink: Well then, let's try to get the most value out of this reader, eh? I try to be helpful, despite how annoying I am, so I suppose I critique one of you classes in full about now.
So. The blademaster.
Does twin weapon fighting stack with the reduced penalties from the two weapon fighting feat? If not, then I'd advise just giving it TWF as a bonus feat. Same with all the other twin weapon fighting abilities: give it the relevant feat as a bonus feat, then those other abilities that come with each one might come the level after that? Helps spread out the abilities to reduce dead levels.

Landsknecht:
Any DC for the prone-ness? Seems a bit odd, and also makes the class pretty much a falchion-wielder- prone is pretty good. Also... what if a halfling blademaster confirms a critical on a colossal+ epic dragon? Does it knock it prone?:smalltongue:

Barging is cool: I like it. However, I'd state that the barger doesn't take an AoO for the overrun.

Hauptmann: what kind of save is it? Will, fort, or reflex? I'd assume fort, but you might as well state it. Also, the standard DC calculation is 10+1/2 character level+ relevant ability modifier. I'd probably make the modifier strength.

Okay, so it has all that... but in the end, it's a fighter with some nifty abilities. Tier 4/5, depending on the level of optimization.
Not a good thing. In my humble opinion, it's not worth making a class if it's not tier 3. All the other tiers are perfectly covered. As such, let's make the blademaster special- give it some nifty abilities that grant it both power and versatility, first off.
Now, I understand you don't like the mentality of "Let's give it maneuvers!" That's okay, coz I don't either. However... hear me out... it's never a bad thing to give tome of battle a look. Not to give your class maneuvers, goodness no! But many of those maneuvers can be tamplates for, say... at will abilities? Maybe dailies? Take something from another source, and make it your own. Here I'm not going to give any suggestions- the sky's the limit, ears.:smallwink:
Now, here's another problem with the class: it honestly won't be very fun to play. I'm sorry, but it's true. You don't give it very many options aside from the standard "I charge and attack" or, "I full attack." That gets boring by the third round. I know this from experience. So, we have a good start with stuff like barging... why not kick it up a notch? Feinting, Disarming, Grappling... they're all underused. Mainly because they suck. So why not give the class abilities to make them worthwhile? Give an ability that grants an AoO on a successful disarm, or feinting as a part of an attack, then maybe some bonus for the enemy being flat footed to go with it. Mix things up, make it fun, make it interesting.
Finally, the chagrin of every nonmagical, not-flying melee-er- flying opponents. How do we deal with this? Well, that depends on the flavor you're going for. Without some relevant ability, fighting flying opponents isn't going to be fun with this class- made to be a melee monster but pulling out a bow instead makes one feel useless.
If you're going for a more supernatural bent, something like Cut the Air (ex): The blademaster, as a full round action, can make a single attack with a two handed weapon or two attacks with two weapons. For the attack(s) only, the weapons are considered to be ranged with a range increment of 10.
Maybe later this will increase to 30.
If not so supernatural... that'll be hard. Maybe the character can make a vertical jump as a part of a move action, to try to reach a flying opponent... but then you'd have to give a bonus on jump checks and maximum jump height that would border on the supernatural.

EleventhHour
2009-11-25, 01:48 AM
Well then, let's try to get the most value out of this reader, eh? I try to be helpful, despite how annoying I am, so I suppose I critique one of you classes in full about now.


Dun dun dun...



So. The blademaster.
Does twin weapon fighting stack with the reduced penalties from the two weapon fighting feat? If not, then I'd advise just giving it TWF as a bonus feat. Same with all the other twin weapon fighting abilities: give it the relevant feat as a bonus feat, then those other abilities that come with each one might come the level after that? Helps spread out the abilities to reduce dead levels.


I tried to word it as the PHB Two Weapon Fighting, with bonus effect, so I'd hope so.



Landsknecht:
Any DC for the prone-ness? Seems a bit odd, and also makes the class pretty much a falchion-wielder- prone is pretty good. Also... what if a halfling blademaster confirms a critical on a colossal+ epic dragon? Does it knock it prone?:smalltongue:


An eventuality I hadn't really considered, though I should have considering how wide you can get the Crit range in later levels. ...Probably should be based on size... Or a Fort Save... Hm.



Barging is cool: I like it. However, I'd state that the barger doesn't take an AoO for the overrun.


Do they actually take one there? :smalleek: I hadn't really looked too much into it, since it doesn't come up often, and I saw the Improved Overrun and decided to run with it. Something to change...



Hauptmann: what kind of save is it? Will, fort, or reflex? I'd assume fort, but you might as well state it. Also, the standard DC calculation is 10+1/2 character level+ relevant ability modifier. I'd probably make the modifier strength.


Thanks, I'll get that tagged on right away.



Okay, so it has all that... but in the end, it's a fighter with some nifty abilities. Tier 4/5, depending on the level of optimization.
Not a good thing. In my humble opinion, it's not worth making a class if it's not tier 3. All the other tiers are perfectly covered. As such, let's make the blademaster special- give it some nifty abilities that grant it both power and versatility, first off.


Rawr, power. >.>



Now, I understand you don't like the mentality of "Let's give it maneuvers!" That's okay, coz I don't either. However... hear me out... it's never a bad thing to give tome of battle a look. Not to give your class maneuvers, goodness no! But many of those maneuvers can be tamplates for, say... at will abilities? Maybe dailies? Take something from another source, and make it your own. Here I'm not going to give any suggestions- the sky's the limit, ears.:smallwink:


*peer* I'll get you for that pun, just you wait! :smallbiggrin:



Now, here's another problem with the class: it honestly won't be very fun to play. I'm sorry, but it's true. You don't give it very many options aside from the standard "I charge and attack" or, "I full attack." That gets boring by the third round. I know this from experience. So, we have a good start with stuff like barging... why not kick it up a notch? Feinting, Disarming, Grappling... they're all underused. Mainly because they suck. So why not give the class abilities to make them worthwhile? Give an ability that grants an AoO on a successful disarm, or feinting as a part of an attack, then maybe some bonus for the enemy being flat footed to go with it. Mix things up, make it fun, make it interesting.


Hm.



Finally, the chagrin of every nonmagical, not-flying melee-er- flying opponents. How do we deal with this? Well, that depends on the flavor you're going for. Without some relevant ability, fighting flying opponents isn't going to be fun with this class- made to be a melee monster but pulling out a bow instead makes one feel useless.


So true...



If you're going for a more supernatural bent, something like Cut the Air (ex): The blademaster, as a full round action, can make a single attack with a two handed weapon or two attacks with two weapons. For the attack(s) only, the weapons are considered to be ranged with a range increment of 10.
Maybe later this will increase to 30.


Your sentence right after explains why. :smallwink:
Martial warrior suddenly gaining magic is a little... disconcerting.



If not so supernatural... that'll be hard. Maybe the character can make a vertical jump as a part of a move action, to try to reach a flying opponent... but then you'd have to give a bonus on jump checks and maximum jump height that would border on the supernatural.

Take away flying to give them superman jumps, not exactly fixing the problem...

...Wait, maybe one Ex- Ability, though it doesn't fit with the meele theme, I'm sure the player wouldn't mind having it tacked on ;

Archery Thing (Work in Progress, obviously.) : With any ranged attack, three times per encounter (/day, whatever.), you may attempt to disrupt magical, or nonmagical flight. If the attack designated with this ability hits, the target must pass a [DC 10 + 1/2 Level + STR Mod] or fall out of the sky. In the case of magical flight, the attack counts as having cast Dispel on any Flight related ability, as if cast by a caster of the Blademaster's level.

Maybe?

Gorgondantess
2009-11-25, 02:07 AM
An eventuality I hadn't really considered, though I should have considering how wide you can get the Crit range in later levels. ...Probably should be based on size... Or a Fort Save... Hm.
How about an opposed strength check? The dragon would get some pretty massive bonuses there, but if your halfling is hercules on steroids, he should still be able to pull that thing down.:smallcool:


Do they actually take one there? :smalleek: I hadn't really looked too much into it, since it doesn't come up often, and I saw the Improved Overrun and decided to run with it. Something to change...
It's why overrunning isn't done.
You can change that, 11. Make overrunning good.:smalltongue:


Rawr, power. >.>
Hey, nobody wants to play a mediocre class. Tier 3 is the way to go.


*peer* I'll get you for that pun, just you wait! :smallbiggrin:
I'd like to see you try, ears. I'd like to see you try.:smallamused:


Your sentence right after explains why. :smallwink:
Martial warrior suddenly gaining magic is a little... disconcerting.
That it is. But... what else are you going to do?


...Wait, maybe one Ex- Ability, though it doesn't fit with the meele theme, I'm sure the player wouldn't mind having it tacked on ;

Archery Thing (Work in Progress, obviously.) : With any ranged attack, three times per encounter (/day, whatever.), you may attempt to disrupt magical, or nonmagical flight. If the attack designated with this ability hits, the target must pass a [DC 10 + 1/2 Level + STR Mod] or fall out of the sky. In the case of magical flight, the attack counts as having cast Dispel on any Flight related ability, as if cast by a caster of the Blademaster's level.

Hm. Well, it seems an okay idea (though it needs cleaning up- and state the save.) But, first of all, most aren't going to want to put away their swords to draw their bow to bring their enemy down to take out their swords again to finally attack them.
And then I thought of this awesome imagery of a warrior with a 50 foot long rope tying it in a lasso then hurling it up at a giant eagle and yanking it out of the air. I'm sure it isn't practical, though.:smallwink:

Maybe?
Maybe.